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post #241 of 260 Old 06-23-2020, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post
It was odd that the rubber mat was included with the acrylic platter. I think they normally include 2 wires as a lot of users have a separate phono preamp. Not all AVRs/preamps have a phono input that has the associated phono preamp. My Marantz, as yours does, has one, but I prefer the outboard Phono preamp.
Certainly. I think they normally include two as well, too, but like I said I'm not going to quibble over a tiny wire Plus, I can always make one with the yards of extra speaker wire I already have if I *really* need to have a second.

I use a Cambridge AXR100 as my music amp. It has a phono stage built in - sounds great to me, and no extra ground wire required. However, when I had to use the tiny Rolls VP29, I only ever ran the ground wire from the TT to the pre-amp. There was no ground wire going from the pre-amp to the AVR I was using at the time. No buzzing or hum with just the one ground wire in that case (this was probably 7 year ago, now, and none of that equipment is in use anymore).
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post #242 of 260 Old 07-02-2020, 01:36 PM
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I purchased the RT-85 - and also only received one ground wire (no rubber mat). I did have a ground-loop hum in my system, and as it turns out, I did need to ground from my phono pre to the receiver. Once I did that - no hum. Fortunately, I had an extra ground wire laying around.

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post #243 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 01:04 AM
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I purchased the RT-85 - and also only received one ground wire (no rubber mat). I did have a ground-loop hum in my system, and as it turns out, I did need to ground from my phono pre to the receiver. Once I did that - no hum. Fortunately, I had an extra ground wire laying around.
When I asked them about the single ground wire, they did offer to send a second one because I mentioned that all of the unboxing videos showed that 2 were included. They did note that the rubber mat was not supposed to be there. I think there was some mixup in the packaging stage. It's almost like I got an RT84 that came with the acrylic platter, and mistakenly shipped with the Ortofon 2M Blue.

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post #244 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 02:10 AM
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And not to spam this thread, but when the time comes to replace the stylus, and I might consider upgrading, what cartridges that are compatible with the RT85 would be an upgrade from the Ortofon 2M Blue? The obvious one would be the 2M Bronze, but is there anything from Nagaoka (MP-110, 150 or 200)? Grado? Sumiko?

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post #245 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 06:57 AM
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Ryan,

I tried a Nagaoka MP-200 which gets great reviews, but I couldn't get it to track right on my Fluance. I tried for days to get it to work with no luck and I returned it. I bought it already mounted in a headshell and all I had to do was get it aligned with a protractor. YMMV. I really like my Sumiko Olympia it tracks everything I throw at it including a torture test record. I will upgrade to the Moonstone Stylus (compatible with the Olympia body) when the stylus requires replacement. Not a fan of Grado. Audio Technica gets good reviews also and they offer a variety of stylus shapes.

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post #246 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 12:35 PM
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Ryan,

I tried a Nagaoka MP-200 which gets great reviews, but I couldn't get it to track right on my Fluance. I tried for days to get it to work with no luck and I returned it. I bought it already mounted in a headshell and all I had to do was get it aligned with a protractor. YMMV. I really like my Sumiko Olympia it tracks everything I throw at it including a torture test record. I will upgrade to the Moonstone Stylus (compatible with the Olympia body) when the stylus requires replacement. Not a fan of Grado. Audio Technica gets good reviews also and they offer a variety of stylus shapes.
I'm still not familiar with a lot of the terms, but what do you mean by not getting it to track right?

Edit: FWiW, I'd be leaning towards either the 2M Bronze (seems like a no-brainer considering it already houses an Ortofon 2M cartridge), Nagaoka or Sumiko.

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post #247 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 03:16 PM
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The cartridge wouldn’t track the grooves on certain albums. It would skip. I had just purchased a couple of high quality albums, like Dave Brubeck Time out, and the MP-200 couldn’t play it right. I verified the balance, tracking force, anti-skate, etc no luck. I thought it was a poor album pressing until I changed back to my Sumiko, no problems, sounded great.

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post #248 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post
The cartridge wouldn’t track the grooves on certain albums. It would skip. I had just purchased a couple of high quality albums, like Dave Brubeck Time out, and the MP-200 couldn’t play it right. I verified the balance, tracking force, anti-skate, etc no luck. I thought it was a poor album pressing until I changed back to my Sumiko, no problems, sounded great.
So far I think I've only experienced that with one album - my copy of Mogwai's Rave Tapes. Didn't actually have any issues when I played in on my previous Stanton T.62 with that record, but the cartridge for that TT had a much higher tracking force setting.

I'm going to try that album again after I give it a good cleaning because it could just be crap in the grooves.

What kind of stylus is on the Sumiko? Is it a Bonded or Nude ellitical?

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post #249 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 03:41 PM
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Nude elliptical.
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post #250 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 05:36 PM
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Nude elliptical.
Good to know. It doesn't seem to indicate anything in the specs I've seen for any of them.

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post #251 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 05:40 PM
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If I recall correctly I read it in a review. It is not stated in the info I have seen. The progression in a cartridge series like the Sumiko line it goes from bonded stylus to nude Stylus to nude Stylus with a better cantilever.

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post #252 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 05:58 PM
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If I recall correctly I read it in a review. It is not stated in the info I have seen. The progression in a csrtridge series l8kebthis goes from bonded stylus to nude to nude with better cantilever.
The Olympia is relatively affordable compared to the 2M Bronze or MP-150/200, so it might be my next cartridge. And I could swap up to the Moonstone later without having to get an entirely new cartridge. It would be nice if there was a pre-mounted option like the Nagaoka, though (I also love the looks of the Nagaoka cartridges).

I guess I'll figure it out more when I have to cross that bridge

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post #253 of 260 Old 07-03-2020, 06:06 PM
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The Sumiko are super easy to mount. They do not require bolts and nuts. Just a bolt right into the screw hole on the cartridge body. Easy, peasy. The Nagaoka do look nice, I wish it worked out better. Maybe I was spoiled by the Sumiko. It does sound nice. I am debating ordering the Moonstone replacement stylus now so I can compare it to the Olympia while both are in good shape.

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post #254 of 260 Old 07-04-2020, 01:14 AM
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The Sumiko are super easy to mount. They do not require bolts and nuts. Just a bolt right into the screw hole on the cartridge body. Easy, peasy. The Nagaoka do look nice, I wish it worked out better. Maybe I was spoiled by the Sumiko. It does sound nice. I am debating ordering the Moonstone replacement stylus now so I can compare it to the Olympia while both are in good shape.
Seems like it - looks pretty identical to how the 2M cartridges are mounted. How would you describe the sound of the Olympia compared to the 2M Blue? If the sound is comparable, it's only $40 more than the 2M stylus on its own, so I would be all for maintaining the same sound (I love the 2M Blue's performance so far) for less over time, assuming that the Olympia stylus is less than the 2M Blue.

Assuming you set it at Sumiko's recommended 2.0g, it sounds like that extra 0.2g really makes a difference. Though I just looked on the Ortofon site, and it cites the tracking force range from 1.6 - 2.0g (recommended 1.8g). based on that, would you think it safe to bump the tracking force to 2.0g and see if that resolves the skipping on that one Mogwai record? Would it be too much force?

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post #255 of 260 Old 07-04-2020, 06:50 AM
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I have not owned a 2M Blue so I can’t comment. The RT85 wasn’t available when I was in the market. I waited for 2+ months then decided to buy the RT82 and upgrade the cartridge, then add the acrylic platter when it came into stock. I did set the Sumiko to 2.00 grams as recommended. It says 1.8 - 2.2 as the range. You could try adding a little force to the Ortofon within its 1.6 - 2.0 range to see if that helps.

I did a little research last night on cartridge compliance and the Nagaoka MP-200 may have been too high at 20 for the Fluance Tone arm mass. See this chart from Ortofon.

https://www.ortofon.com/support/supp...nce-frequency/

It looks like 10-15 is correct for the Fluance TTs. The Nagaoka is 20. This can cause mis-tracking, my problem with it.

Edit, I just checked the Ortofon Blue and it is also a 20 and it is supplied with the TT????

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post #256 of 260 Old 07-04-2020, 10:57 AM
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I have not owned a 2M Blue so I can’t comment. The RT85 wasn’t available when I was in the market. I waited for 2+ months then decided to buy the RT82 and upgrade the cartridge, then add the acrylic platter when it came into stock. I did set the Sumiko to 2.00 grams as recommended. It says 1.8 - 2.2 as the range. You could try adding a little force to the Ortofon within its 1.6 - 2.0 range to see if that helps.

I did a little research last night on cartridge compliance and the Nagaoka MP-200 may have been too high at 20 for the Fluance Tone arm mass. See this chart from Ortofon.

https://www.ortofon.com/support/supp...nce-frequency/

It looks like 10-15 is correct for the Fluance TTs. The Nagaoka is 20. This can cause mis-tracking, my problem with it.
The RT85's total tone arm mass is (what seems) significantly higher than the RT82 at 27.5g. I'm not sure how to read that graph or do the math to be able to figure things out (or where you figured it was 10-15 for Fluance TTs).

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post #257 of 260 Old 07-04-2020, 11:21 AM
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Looking at the Ortofon diagram the black hashed lines are the upper and lower limits. The tonearm, headshell and cartridge total mass is around 30 grams. The blue curve is a compliance of 10 and the pinkish curve is 15, those are the only 2 that fall within the limits.

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post #258 of 260 Old 07-04-2020, 02:37 PM
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Looking at the Ortofon diagram the black hashed lines are the upper and lower limits. The tonearm, headshell and cartridge total mass is around 30 grams. The blue curve is a compliance of 10 and the pinkish curve is 15, those are the only 2 that fall within the limits.
Hmm... wouldn't that make the 2M Blue mis-matched for the RT85 or am I completely misunderstanding? What compliance spec do you base the math on if it cites two different numbers like the Nagaoka? Is the M in the calculation the effective tonearm mass + head shell mass + cartridge mass or is it just the effective tonearm mass + cartridge mass?

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post #259 of 260 Old 07-04-2020, 03:03 PM
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I think I’m confused also, I thought the compliance used is dynamic. I been trying to figure out why I couldn’t get the MP-200 to work on my TT. I’m pretty sure you need the tonearm, headshell and cartridge mass combined, including the mounting hardware.

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post #260 of 260 Old 07-04-2020, 04:13 PM
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I think I’m confused also, I thought the compliance used is dynamic. I been trying to figure out why I couldn’t get the MP-200 to work on my TT. I’m pretty sure you need the tonearm, headshell and cartridge mass combined, including the mounting hardware.
If it's the dynamic spec, then the Nagaoka's MP-200 compliance is 7.2, and would definitely fall within range of that graph.

No idea how you would calculate the mass of the mounting hardware since they don't list it as a spec.

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