Good quality USB cable from laptop to DAC - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
MEASUREMENTS: USB Cables for Audio DACs [2013-06-18 UPDATE]



" Conclusion:
No evidence in these tests to suggest that the different USB cables used here with the asynchronous CM6631A USB-to-SPDIF converter, direct asynchronous TEAC UD-501 USB DAC, or adaptive isochronous USB setups should sound different (even though one would expect Cable C to be the worst). Subjectively, listening to music with Cable C through Sennheiser HD800's sounded fine."
I did say it makes not difference on the sound, the discussion is noise from laptop. This can usually be stopped by a ferrite core. Nothing to do with sound.
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post #32 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:03 PM
 
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wont spend more than 60 bux tho,
No promises, but I'd suggest this: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-iDefend...tronics&sr=1-9
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post #33 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

thanks I have given products like this a thought.

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post #34 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:05 PM
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possibly...just saying in numerous tests of my own gear/cables a difference can be made. by noise I dont mean hum.

Noise from laptop likely is due to ground loop, it's just doesn't sound like hum because the noise is from the computer running. Idea is similar to ground loop. The good thing is those are higher frequency noise and the ferrite can be used to open the ground. Too bad ferrite will not work for 60Hz or 120Hz hum as the frequency is too low.


There is no guaranty way, we usually just try. If you look at the link I gave you, they even show some ferrite clip ons that you can just clip onto your favorite cables.

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post #35 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I did say it makes not difference on the sound, the discussion is noise from laptop. This can usually be stopped by a ferrite core. Nothing to do with sound.
The reviewer measured the noise and found no appreciable difference:
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post #36 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
That might work. The point is to break the ground loop. I would try the cheap way using ferrite, if that doesn't work, this might be a more sure way...but expensive way.


It must be a repeater with isolated ground.

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post #37 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Noise from laptop likely is due to ground loop, it's just doesn't sound like hum because the noise is from the computer running. Idea is similar to ground loop. The good thing is those are higher frequency noise and the ferrite can be used to open the ground. Too bad ferrite will not work for 60Hz or 120Hz hum as the frequency is too low.


There is no guaranty way, we usually just try. If you look at the link I gave you, they even show some ferrite clip ons that you can just clip onto your favorite cables.

60 or 120hz hum...whatcha talkin bout willis?
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post #38 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:11 PM
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60 or 120hz hum...whatcha talkin bout willis?

could that be 2 fridges causing hum? some tests I get the hum some dont so figure its not an only on device causing it...

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post #39 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The reviewer measured the noise and found no appreciable difference:

Yes, I agree different cable doesn't make any difference in sound, but the ground noise will make hum or other funny noise on top of the music. This is very common and a lot of case a simple ferrite core will cut the noise. I have a drawful of those core just in case.


Ferrite is not 100% solution, we do it as a try, I would say over 50% the time, it works, but no guaranty. You have one test that show it does not work doesn't mean it's not a good way. I did a lot of CE ( UL type) of qualification test on big system, we always have a drawful of ferrite cores and use is as first line fix. If it doesn't work, then start pulling hair.
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post #40 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:16 PM
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I am not talking sound, just noise. thought about jitterbug or device like mzillch linked

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post #41 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I am not talking sound, just noise. thought about jitterbug or device like mzillch linked
Stupid ground noise is a pest. They even have a special type of EE called Signal Integrity engineer and specialized in design to avoid ground loops and other ground noise problems.

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post #42 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:46 PM
 
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I did say it makes not difference on the sound, the discussion is noise from laptop. This can usually be stopped by a ferrite core. Nothing to do with sound.
I disagree. Usually it does not make any difference in blind testing.

In sighted testing I suspect it probably "works" quite often.

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post #43 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:52 PM
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I disagree. Usually it does not make any difference in blind testing.

In sighted testing I suspect it works quite often.

You don't need blind test, it's simple, is there noise or not. This is a very standard way for us to stop the ground noise whether you agree or not. We don't read articles, we are in the trenches working on and solve noise problem. I can tell you that ferrite works a lot of times. Go ask any real EE.

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post #44 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:54 PM
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I am curious to poster mzilch problems in audio and his solutions??? not anything special as I know him to be great guy from pm's...but he always thinks stuff isnt gear related.

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post #45 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 04:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You don't need blind test, it's simple, is there noise or not. This is a very standard way for us to stop the ground noise whether you agree or not. We don't read articles, we are in the trenches working on and solve noise problem. I can tell you that ferrite works a lot of times. Go ask any real EE.
Ferrite chokes do not in any instance whatsoever reduce ground loops between laptops and USB DACs, when one is present. In some instances they do help reduce other noises however.

If they helped reduce ground loops it would be mentioned in articles such as this, but it isn't because they don't:
https://www.electronics-notes.com/ar...ead-chokes.php

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post #46 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:02 PM
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Ferrite chokes do not in any instance whatsoever reduce ground loops. In some instances they do help reduce other noises however.

If they helped reduce ground loops it would be mentioned in articles such as this, but it isn't because they don't:
https://www.electronics-notes.com/ar...ead-chokes.php

to you and alan...wouldnt it make sense for dacs to reduce the noise I get on their end? or is this something that is just mainly ignored?


in my case the audio can be flawless...but then laptop spins up on something and I can hear it...just added cause its not always bad noise.

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post #47 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:06 PM
 
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I am curious to poster mzilch problems in audio and his solutions???
If that was a question to me I didn't understand it, sorry.
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If that was a question to me I didn't understand it, sorry.

no worries...wondering if found any gear related issues in your experience? you always seem to post about issues not being gear related.

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post #49 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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to you and alan...wouldnt it make sense for dacs to reduce the noise I get on their end? or is this something that is just mainly ignored?


in my case the audio can be flawless...but then laptop spins up on something and I can hear it...just added cause its not always bad noise.

Mine is the fan in the laptop. It's annoying in as quiet a room as I'm in.
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post #50 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:10 PM
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I hate to say to scott that headphone listening w/good dac can resolve well above speakers/amp/dac...as I have tested many songs on my headphones vs speakers. thats just one respect to sound tho...as headphones suck at so many other things.

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post #51 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:13 PM
 
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no worries...wondering if found any gear related issues in your experience? you always seem to post about issues not being gear related.
The amount of misinformation spread in this industry is mind boggling. I'd love to be able to talk about the zillions of things which do make differences but you can't have meaningful discussions about this stuff when large parts of the audience are mired in incorrect beliefs.
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post #52 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:16 PM
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Ferrite chokes do not in any instance whatsoever reduce ground loops. In some instances they do help reduce other noises however.

If they helped reduce ground loops it would be mentioned in articles such as this, but it isn't because they don't:
https://www.electronics-notes.com/ar...ead-chokes.php
Your article pretty much say what I said.


Wrap the cable through a ferrite torroid forms an inductor, an inductor at high frequency becomes high impedance. So even if you have a ground connection through the cable shield, having a torroid introduce an inductor between the two grounds and at high frequency, at high frequency, the reactance is like over 10 ohms, That's all it takes to isolate the two grounds.


Remember, this is computer noise, not 60Hz hum, the frequency is very high. Ferrite won't work for 60Hz hum, but it will do magic on computer related noise.


Even one ohms between the two grounds will limit the ground current flow and reduce the noise. This is very very standard thing to do, every engineer that work on real system know about ferrite. If you don't like it, don't use it, it's up to you.

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post #53 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:17 PM
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well mr zilch I have found positioning of speakers can make gobs of difference...but thats prob not a discussion.

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Mr Alan you talk like my retired engineer dad does. appreciate it. even tho my dad ripped my system few months ago mids and highs all there...it was bass/slam missing...20k cuft duh

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post #55 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:25 PM
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Mr Alan you talk like my retired engineer dad does. appreciate it. even tho my dad ripped my system few months ago mids and highs all there...it was bass/slam missing...20k cuft duh

Work on the sub, those controls behind the sub really really make a difference, get it right, you'll get you bass slam. We both have Focal, we both have Rythmik, I know how sensitive those adjustments are. That delay is very sensitive. I hate to say the instruction from Rythmik is not very useful.

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I hate to say to scott that headphone listening w/good dac can resolve well above speakers/amp/dac...as I have tested many songs on my headphones vs speakers. thats just one respect to sound tho...as headphones suck at so many other things.

Listened to many at AXPONA on the insistence of my friend who said I could hear the DAC difference. Headphones didn't tell me jack schiit about the aspects of audio that I'm most interested in.
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post #57 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:31 PM
 
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Your article pretty much say what I said.
False. Nowhere in the ferrite bead article I linked to does it even mention the term "ground loop", let alone that it helps eliminate/reduce them as you claimed.

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post #58 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:35 PM
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Nowhere in the article does it even mention the term "ground loop".
Did you read my explanation on ferrite forming an inductor like the article showed in the graph? At higher frequency, the impedance goes up and break the ground. For single turn inductor like in torroid I suggested, the impedance doesn't come down until very high frequency as capacitance is very low.


Like I said, using ferrite is a standard way in reducing noise......reducing ground loop whether you buy it or not. You don't like, don't use ferrite, this is a standard way every EE use as the first line defense in noise reduction.


And yes, most of the noise like this are caused by ground loop.
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Listened to many at AXPONA on the insistence of my friend who said I could hear the DAC difference. Headphones didn't tell me jack schiit about the aspects of audio that I'm most interested in.
I used this tidal song in few other threads as its obvious to me in background detail like the voices/conversations...they clear as a bell on headphones...at least my setup they hard to hear...https://tidal.com/track/81046523


this track on whether you can hear the conversation in background is very obvious for me between headphones and stereo. granted maybe it just shows me weaknesses in my stereo...

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post #60 of 242 Old 04-26-2019, 05:49 PM
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Mr Alan you talk like my retired engineer dad does. appreciate it. even tho my dad ripped my system few months ago mids and highs all there...it was bass/slam missing...20k cuft duh
What kind of engineer was your father? EE? what area of the field?


Electronics technology is moving at light speed, before I retired, we only have USB2 which is 400MHz, now USB3.1 and 3.2 is 5GHz and 10GHz.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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