Good quality USB cable from laptop to DAC - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You are the one that complain why we gone onto ferrites. Hey, I've been going out of my way to help you, even spend the time to go on Physics Forums to ask for you to give you the answer. I don't deserve this in return.
I said that jokingly if you happened to notice the use of the word 'ferret' instead of ferrites? No? You do know what a ferret is, correct?
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post #122 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
if using tidal on laptop, I get around no usb cables by using the blesound node over wifi. Im getting noise(very subtle/minor) from laptop to dac to amp for headphone use. like I said, for main system I use bluesound node over wifi. my headphone systems are a lot more resolving than my speakers unfortunately.

I have optical as one of the connections available on the DAC, but not on the laptop. It never occurred to me when I bought the laptop that I'd ever want it. I would love to have both right now.

Plus that Amir reviewer dudes comments about USB input of the Schiit and what USB did to his measurements.

I don't know what a 'bluesound' is

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post #123 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I have optical as one of the connections available on the DAC, but not on the laptop. It never occurred to me when I bought the laptop that I'd ever want it. I would love to have both right now.

Plus that Amir reviewer dudes comments about USB input of the Schiit and what USB did to his measurements.

I don't know what a 'bluesound' is

i use spdif at my desktop....here the newest bluesound https://www.crutchfield.com/S-RPFPEE...BoCJoIQAvD_BwE


attached is screenshot of app showing it can stream alot of different servers.
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post #124 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:19 PM
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my older bluesound node 2 is pretty small and seen to right of cable box. i have mine connected by rca cable to avr. doh why upside down....argh
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post #125 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I said that jokingly if you happened to notice the use of the word 'ferret' instead of ferrites? No? You do know what a ferret is, correct?
On your question if you have no noise with a shorter USB cable, change to a longer one likely will not make the noise worst.

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post #126 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
my older bluesound node 2 is pretty small and seen to right of cable box. i have mine connected by rca cable to avr. doh why upside down....argh
So its a Bluetooth device? I guess the 'blue' in Bluesound should lead me to that conclusion.
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post #127 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I just checked the box the cable came in. I'm mistaken. It is a 5 meter so I'm right on the limit. Plus never any dropouts, static or anything like that. It's as dead silent as the room, which is very quiet.

"I can't see how the cable would change the "tone" or "timbre" of the sound"

Now you're at my issue / concern. I don't see how it could either. Six day of arguing with him had me rechecking my thoughts and having doubts. I know 'sounds the same is really threatening to him', but this is the guy I did the single blind speaker cable and amp (VTL300 vs ARC Classic 150) comparisons 25 years or so ago, and we found differences, but I could never decide on which of the two very different sounding mono blocks I liked best.

He shouldn't feel threatened by this.
Sounds like you are fine. No, he should not, but this is one of those things that falls into the "religious beliefs" category that I try to avoid. He could bring over his fancy cable and you could compare blind to see if you can tell. Anytime I do something like that I tend to focus more and so find "new" things, but invariably switching again shows the same "new" thing on the old setup... Unless something is very broken the same bits are going into the DAC and the same signal coming out. It is not an analog link.

Tube amps are one of those things that can easily sound different, especially with complex speaker loads.
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post #128 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
i use spdif at my desktop....here the newest bluesound https://www.crutchfield.com/S-RPFPEE...BoCJoIQAvD_BwE


attached is screenshot of app showing it can stream alot of different servers.

Is a spdif cable optical or coax ?
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post #129 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Is a spdif cable optical or coax ?
either but capped at 192khz
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post #130 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like you are fine. No, he should not, but this is one of those things that falls into the "religious beliefs" category that I try to avoid. He could bring over his fancy cable and you could compare blind to see if you can tell. Anytime I do something like that I tend to focus more and so find "new" things, but invariably switching again shows the same "new" thing on the old setup... Unless something is very broken the same bits are going into the DAC and the same signal coming out. It is not an analog link.

Tube amps are one of those things that can easily sound different, especially with complex speaker loads.
"He could bring over his fancy cable and you could compare blind"

I would love to do that and there end up not being an identifiable difference to him. 'Well pal, how much did you pay for that cable?' It would completely wreck his world.

His argument would always net out to be ….. "I don't have to double blind test to hear a difference because I know there's a difference because I can hear it".

"Anytime I do something like that I tend to focus more and so find "new" things"

It's like finding a new noise with your car and then that's the only thing you can hear.

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post #131 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
On your question if you have no noise with a shorter USB cable, change to a longer one likely will not make the noise worst.
It didn't have anything to do with noise in my case. It was the sound of the notes.
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post #132 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:54 PM
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post #133 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 04:56 PM
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unfortunately anything sound related coming out of a laptop has noise...more than I care for...toslink does the best imo and is what I use in office. I dont have any measurement gear...just sharing what my ears say...problem with tidal is just streaming dynamics/resolution. I find its pretty darn good.


and I just last month learned of tidals military veteran discount pricing....11.99 for family plan which has me stoked. and now my wife loves tidal while walking dog. thank you tidal.

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post #134 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
unfortunately anything sound related coming out of a laptop has noise...more than I care for...toslink does the best imo and is what I use in office. I dont have any measurement gear...just sharing what my ears say...problem with tidal is just streaming dynamics/resolution. I find its pretty darn good.


and I just last month learned of tidals military veteran discount pricing....11.99 for family plan which has me stoked. and now my wife loves tidal while walking dog. thank you tidal.

Unfortunately, mine is the internal fan in the laptop.
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post #135 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 05:03 PM
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Unfortunately, mine is the internal fan in the laptop.

i was going to add something about usb add on laptop coolers and also usb fans people use for av racks...they create so much noise that in my av rack throw off my video signals on xfinity box with all the noise. as testeb by xfinity cable company...so no more usb fans in my av rack.
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post #136 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 05:06 PM
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some easy for me to replicate usb noise can be found in many youtube videos...hearing bunch of clicking buzzing at times.

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post #137 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 05:16 PM
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USB ground loop issues now has a slew of products available like Schiit's "wyrd" box. If you have a ground loop issue, you'll know. It's not a "maybe my sound will get a bit better if I use this box". It'll be an audible humm.

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My Schiit DAC has optical. I wish I had that as an option in my laptop so I can compare

Schiit's USB implementation quality varies. Which unit do you have and which USB gen card? If you have a GEN5 card, it'll be about the same as optical (maybe a bit better).
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post #138 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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USB ground loop issues now has a slew of products available like Schiit's "wyrd" box. If you have a ground loop issue, you'll know. It's not a "maybe my sound will get a bit better if I use this box". It'll be an audible humm.




Schiit's USB implementation quality varies. Which unit do you have and which USB gen card? If you have a GEN5 card, it'll be about the same as optical (maybe a bit better).
I have the Schiit modi3. Was going to get the multibit until that Amir review.

I didn't know there was such a think as a gen card for the USB. How can I tell? If you're asking about the laptop, It's a Anus i7 16gb ram that I bought about a year ago so it should be pretty current.
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post #139 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 05:43 PM
 
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If you have a ground loop issue, you'll know. It's not a "maybe my sound will get a bit better if I use this box". It'll be an audible humm.
You are right that it often if not usually sticks out like a sore thumb however for a person not dead sure what it sounds like in the first place and has never had the luxury of hearing it A/B'd for them in a direct comparison it may be elusive, especially since all gear, regardless of price, has some degree of noise no matter what you do, so some people may be hearing that "thermal noise" and not realize it is normal and expected.

Hum is just one manifestation of a ground loop however there are many others. Also the notion that using your laptop on battery power is a sure fire way to get rid of it is not entirely true [although I would concur it is the most likely culprit]. You can even hear ground loops in systems which are 100% battery powered from start to finish. For example, ever have a car stereo where when you press the accelerator there is a whine noise through the speakers which directly reflects the engine RPM? That's an example of a ground loop which is both not a hum and has nothing to do with your room's AC ground since the whole car is battery powered.
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post #140 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 05:52 PM
 
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You are right that it often if not usually sticks out like a sore thumb however for a person not dead sure what it sounds like in the first place and has never had the luxury of hearing it A/B'd for them in a direct comparison it may be elusive, especially since all gear, regardless of price, has some degree of noise no matter what you do, so some people may be hearing that "thermal noise" and not realize it is normal and expected.
I'm working on an educational video demo which shows without question that ground loop noise when using an outboard USB DAC has nothing to do with if the USB cord has ferrite beads on it. That's complete mythology [although ferrite beads can and do eliminate other forms of noise, just not ground loop noise, as I've stated repeatedly].

Any requests of what else you all would like demonstrated in the video regarding this topic?

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post #141 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 06:18 PM
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Now I start to understand the disagreement more. People here consider RFI and audio noise are totally different issue and they are not related. I don't think this is true. RF can down mixed and do a lot of funny things, one cannot just say it's RF so it's not going to make audible noise. Also, the transmission can be in bursts, the each burst can happen in audio frequency range. Digital noise is totally random depending on how the interface is programed to do. One cannot assume they can never interfere into audio range.

Of cause, ferrites will not work at 60Hz, I think I said it many times already.


In the specific noise issue from Torii, it's easy to find out, unplug the laptop from the AC power and let it run on battery, if the noise goes away, it's the ground noise through the cable. If not, it's something else.
Have you ever put a scope on a battery while drawing current?

Another audiophile myth. Chemical batteries are not exactly clean power sources, better than a SMPS but not as good as a lab grade linear power supply. If you are a chemical engineer by training you above all should understand that.

(I'm not an expert on chemistry but I understand it has something to do with the reaction during discharge creates RF noise?)

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post #142 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 06:26 PM
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Have you ever put a scope on a battery while drawing current?

Another audiophile myth. Chemical batteries are not exactly clean power sources, better than a SMPS but not as good as a lab grade linear power supply. If you are a chemical engineer by training you above all should understand that.
No, I have not, I am not a chemical engineer, I was biochem major, but EE by career.

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No, I have not, I am not a chemical engineer, I was biochem major, but EE by career.
Well you still know a lot more about university chemistry than I do
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EE by career.
From what school did you get your EE degree?
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post #145 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 06:50 PM
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From what school did you get your EE degree?
Home school, all studied on my own. But I published papers on America Institute of Physics and own two patents solely on my own name. Chemistry degree from U of San Francisco, never use it.


https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10...ournalCode=rsi


https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.1144464


https://patents.google.com/patent/US...oq=yungman+liu


https://patents.google.com/patent/US...ngman+alan+liu

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From what school did you get your EE degree?

(father) cornell degree but people arent measured by degrees...well except paychecks I should get my old man in this mix...but he is happy in what he knows and lives by....retirement mode and happy.

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post #147 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 07:04 PM
 
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Home school, all studied on my own.
I'm an astronaut, also self taught.
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post #148 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 07:06 PM
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(father) cornell degree but people arent measured by degrees...well except paychecks I should get my old man in this mix...but he is happy in what he knows and lives by....retirement mode and happy.

It's the result that matters, I've seen too many from good school that can do nothing. Well, I do have paper published and patent under my name. See whether getting a degree or publishing paper in America Institution of Physics is more!!! This is not AES!!! They have PhDs challenged me and I had to answer all the questions before they approved the paper.

Nothing beats a good dose of common sense. In real world, it's result that matters, who can get the project done. I am proud that I studied all on my own......From the first opamp book by Melvino to advanced Electromagnetics in post grad. In fact, what I was talking here in this thread is all electromagnetics. Whether you want to say it's ground loop or RFI, it's current running around the loop that causes ground bounce or RFI like loop antenna. It's all Maxwell's equations.


In fact, The last two weeks, I am fighting on my brand new design with error correction of power amp that I am pushing 0.0025%[email protected] 70W and 4ohm load, 0.001%@1KHz into 4ohm load. I am getting down to the point I am questioning my QA401 analyzer whether it can read this low THD or not. Look in the market, who did low THD like this.
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post #149 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 07:07 PM
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I'm an astronaut, also self taught.

have a niece at berkely and think she retarded for turning down multiple full rides to go in debt 100k a yr....

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Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #150 of 242 Old 04-27-2019, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I'm an astronaut, also self taught.
You have sitation for that? I did provide links. You can google my name.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 04-27-2019 at 07:13 PM.
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