amps with good built in eq? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzysig View Post
I missed that post thank you for reminding me
but that amp doesn't have EQ
I would have to have a preamp which is not what I want.


I feel like 20 years into having digital audio we should be able to have a true integrated amp that has onboard dsp and all the features


I mean car audio had that for almost 15 years and they are usually behind on everything


Im honestly almost ready to buy a higher end car stereo and use that because for some reason theres nothing available for home audio


this is just politics really


so they can sell you the features you want as "high end" options for 20000 when in reality its so cheap to make that they have them on almost every car stereo now.
Unless I missed something isn't bass and treble tuning EQ?...were you looking for more EQ options?...more power?...it you wanted digital in on an amp as well I would recommend this with the amp I suggested.Both would give you the small footprint your after and not be alot of money.
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post #62 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzysig View Post
I missed that post thank you for reminding me
but that amp doesn't have EQ
I would have to have a preamp which is not what I want.


I feel like 20 years into having digital audio we should be able to have a true integrated amp that has onboard dsp and all the features


I mean car audio had that for almost 15 years and they are usually behind on everything


Im honestly almost ready to buy a higher end car stereo and use that because for some reason theres nothing available for home audio


this is just politics really


so they can sell you the features you want as "high end" options for 20000 when in reality its so cheap to make that they have them on almost every car stereo now.
If you are using it for 2-channel audio only, analog EQ sounds much better than DSP EQ. Your opinion (and others) might be different, but that's been my experience. That is also the manufacturer's general experience and viewpoint, which is why you don't see many/any dedicated 2-channel amps with built-in DSP EQ. There is no political conspiracy, there is a reason they aren't made. If you really want a 2-channel with DSP EQ, just use an AVR and run it in stereo (though my experience is it will sound almost always sound better with the AVR in "pure direct" mode for 2-channel music (bypassing the DSP you searched for)).

Analog EQ is better for 2-channel music, but analog EQ has fallen out of favor for the past couple decades, so you will need to find an older amp that has it. Some suggestions for specific amps were given in posts #40 and #41 of this thread. If you search eBay for "receiver equalizer", you will see many options. Below is a pic of the Rotel I suggested in post #40 :



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post #63 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by pjp View Post
If you are using it for 2-channel audio only, analog EQ sounds much better than DSP EQ. Your opinion (and others) might be different, but that's been my experience. That is also the manufacturer's general experience and viewpoint, which is why you don't see many/any dedicated 2-channel amps with built-in DSP EQ.
I'm of the mind they do this rather to meet market demand, so as to make money. Their perfect right.

To the best of my knowledge the majority of major recording studios do EQ entirely digitally these days, not analogly. [Yes, I know that's not a real word.]

40 years ago, when the Rotel RA-1000 shown was in production, digital EQ didn't exist. Technology has greatly progressed since then.

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post #64 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I'm of the mind they do this rather to meet market demand, so as to make money. Their perfect right.
Correct. Manufacturers do things to make money (as they should) -- and if there was a valid reason to have 2-channel stereo receivers/amps with DSP EQ, everybody would make them because manufacturers always make more money when they offer products people need. Instead of everybody making them, however, (virtually) nobody makes them. Why do you think that is? Please don't say development costs -- all any of them would need to do is dumb down their AVRs to 2 channels -- it would cost nothing to develop or produce, yet they still don't do it.

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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
To the best of my knowledge the majority of major recording studios do EQ entirely digitally, not anolgly. [Yes, I know that's not a real word.]
Correct.

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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
40 years ago, when the Rotel RA-1000 shown was in production, digital EQ didn't exist. Technology has progressed since then.
And digital EQ has existed for a couple of decades or so, so why don't 2-channel amps and receivers use it?
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post #65 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pjp View Post
And digital EQ has existed for a couple of decades or so, so why don't 2-channel amps and receivers use it?
Because often people buying 2ch analog amps from their very nature shun digital processing and that is the market they are catering to. If they were to throw in a digital circuit like EQ it would be shooting themselves in the foot and their sales would plummet.
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post #66 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 02:18 PM
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Then make 2 channel "stuff" (loops/in-outs) to accomodate outboard anolgly EQ's?
No shunning required.
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post #67 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Then make 2 channel "stuff" (loops/in-outs) to accomodate outboard anolgly EQ's?
No shunning required.
Loops are cool. They aren't all that expensive to put in but I suspect market research discovered hardly anyone used them so they couldn't justify the expensive for the tiny niche market.

One brand I carried, NAD, had it on nearly every single receiver they made, even the little introductory one. . . . but not anymore.

P.S. Another reason to got rid of them, as they also have the tape monitor loop button, is it reduces calls to the help center.

These are the main culprits when a customer calls and complains "The power is on but the sound is gone."

Get rid of the feature and you also get rid of these phone calls.

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post #68 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Loops are cool. They aren't all that expensive to put in but I suspect market research discovered hardly anyone used them so they couldn't justify the expensive for the tiny niche market.

One brand I carried, NAD, had it on nearly every single receiver they made, even the little introductory one. . . . but not anymore.

P.S. Another reason to got rid of them, as they also have the tape monitor loop button, is it reduces calls to the help center.

These are the main culprits when a customer calls and complains "The power is on but the sound is gone."

Get rid of the feature and you also get rid of these phone calls.
Your opinion.
What's expensive?
What you "carried" years ago is old news. We're talking today.
Call centers getting calls due to pressing the "monitor loop"? How many per day?

Nah...


That's like calls we used to get at the data center where I worked.

Cust: My CRT doesn't display anything?
Support: Turn the brightness knob to the right.
Cust: Oh!!! Wow! It's working! Thanks


Gotta love anolgly controls.
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post #69 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Your opinion.
What's expensive?
What you "carried" years ago is old news. We're talking today.
Call centers getting calls due to pressing the "monitor loop"? How many per day?
Chill.
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post #70 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Chill.
Same advice.
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post #71 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Same advice.
O.K., I would like to reword my potentially offensive wording and apologize. Please help me understand by quoting the objectionable passages. Thanks

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post #72 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Because people buying 2ch analog amps from their very nature shun digital processing and that is the market they are catering to. If they were to throw in a digital circuit like EQ it would be shooting themselves in the foot and their sales would plummet.
People buy 2-channel systems because they want a 2-channel system. There are plenty of rooms in most peoples' houses where they only want a 2-channel system, and it's stupid to pay for 7 or 9 amps crappy amps in a bulky AVR when, at the same price point, they can have much higher quality amps in a compact 2-channel stereo amp. Maybe 5% of stereo buyers, probably at best, are extreme audio freaks who shun digital -- you are trying to paint that tiny niche as the entire market for 2-channel products. That's fantasy -- it's as far-fetched as you can get. Most people want a stereo because they want a stereo -- and 100% of stereo buyers want a stereo system to sound as good as it can.

You are trying to make argument that manufacturers intentionally make worse sounding (according to you since you think DSP is better for 2-channel) by eliminating DSP just to cater to the 5% purist market. Sorry, no business designs their entire stereo offering around a 5% niche -- they design it for the needs that serve 100% of the market. If DSP sounded better, manufacturers would include DSP in most of their stereo amps because that would serve the interests of 100% of customers. They would still offer some "analog-only" models to serve the purist market, but they would not design their entire product line around a niche market.

I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you because I know it will be fruitless and I refuse to waste my time or the board's time -- but your characterization of the 2-channel customer base is totally off-base and your business conclusions make no sense at all for the reasons stated above.
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post #73 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:28 PM
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I think Ratman and M.Zillch have shown there true colors in this thread and I gotta say I'm with Ratman on this one even though I've disagreed with him in the past... interesting thread though.

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post #74 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pjp View Post
People buy 2-channel systems because they want a 2-channel system. There are plenty of rooms in most peoples' houses where they only want a 2-channel system, and it's stupid to pay for 7 or 9 amps crappy amps in a bulky AVR when, at the same price point, they can have much higher quality amps in a compact 2-channel stereo amp. Maybe 5% of stereo buyers, probably at best, are extreme audio freaks who shun digital -- you are trying to paint that tiny niche as the entire market for 2-channel products. That's fantasy -- it's as far-fetched as you can get. Most people want a stereo because they want a stereo -- and 100% of stereo buyers want a stereo system to sound as good as it can.

You are trying to make argument that manufacturers intentionally make worse sounding (according to you since you think DSP is better for 2-channel) by eliminating DSP just to cater to the 5% purist market. Sorry, no business designs their entire stereo offering around a 5% niche -- they design it for the needs that serve 100% of the market. If DSP sounded better, manufacturers would include DSP in most of their stereo amps because that would serve the interests of 100% of customers. They would still offer some "analog-only" models to serve the purist market, but they would not design their entire product line around a niche market.

I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you because I know it will be fruitless and I refuse to waste my time or the board's time -- but your characterization of the 2-channel customer base is totally off-base and your business conclusions make no sense at all for the reasons stated above.
I personally disagree with all sorts of things in this post and I feel you have grossly mischaracterized my actual beliefs. Please don't presume to speak for me or tell others here what my position is because you clearly don't get it. I'd know: I'm the person in question. Instead I would kindly ask that you quote what I've said. Thanks.

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post #75 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I personally disagree with all sorts of things in this post and I feel you have grossly mischaracterized my actual beliefs. Please don't presume to speak for me or tell others here what my position is because you clearly don't get it. I'd know: I'm the person in question. Instead I would kindly ask that you quote what I've said. Thanks.
Zillch it's human nature for others too respond this way giving your post...don't take offense from it. . learn from it...anyway thanks for your input on the matter...as Ratman said:..Chill.

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post #76 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post
Zillch it's human nature for others too respond this way giving your post...don't take offense from it. . learn from it...anyway thanks for your input on the matter...as Ratman said:..Chill.

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Which post?
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post #77 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:40 PM
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Which post?
#72 that you responded too...common Zillch.

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post #78 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Instead I would kindly ask that you quote what I've said. Thanks.

I did quote what you said and my response was directed only to that quoted text. That's all I have time for in this discussion.
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post #79 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:50 PM
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Zillch it's human nature for others too respond this way giving your post...don't take offense from it. . learn from it...anyway thanks for your input on the matter...as Ratman said:..Chill.

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Sorry I was unclear in my previous post. Also, I take it the word above "giving", above, actually was meant to be "given". [At least that's how I read it.] By reading it that way you make mention of, as you put it "given your post".

Please tell me which post of mine you are referring to exactly. Thanks.

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post #80 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Sorry I was unclear in my previous post. Also, I take it the word above "giving", above, actually was meant to be "given". By reading it that way you make mention of, as you put it "given your post".



Please tell me which post of mine you are referring to. Thanks.
Zillch...I've told you 1 time already...don't phycologist me on this...you are a big boy and know what I mean...don't play games with me please....thank you....let's stick to topic and do as Ratman said:...chill...thanks......you have anything else to add to this thread?….or do you want to continue mind screw*** everyone?...thanks.

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post #81 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Sorry I was unclear in my previous post. Also, I take it the word above "giving", above, actually was meant to be "given". [At least that's how I read it.] By reading it that way you make mention of, as you put it "given your post".



Please tell me which post of mine you are referring to exactly. Thanks.
#72 ...second time now Zillch....common bud.

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post #82 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 06:15 PM
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#72 ...second time now Zillch....common bud.

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I didn't write post number 72. I assume now you actually mean my post number 65, since that one is quoted in number 72?
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post #83 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 06:18 PM
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I didn't write post number 72. I assume now you actually mean my post number 65, since that one is quoted in number 72?
Whatever makes you happy Zillch.

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post #84 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 06:52 PM
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Guess I put this to rest...thanks Zillch I appreciate your wonderful insight.

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post #85 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 07:24 PM
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There are various 2-channel receivers out there that include room eq. Search again.

Save your money.
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post #86 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 07:29 PM
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Guess I put this to rest...thanks Zillch I appreciate your wonderful insight.

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No problem.
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post #87 of 94 Old 01-08-2020, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Out-Of-Phase View Post
There are various 2-channel receivers out there that include room eq. Search again.

That is the entire question being asked by the OP. He presumably has not been able to find them by searching, otherwise he wouldn't have started the thread. If you know of specific 2-channel receivers with eq, please post those units rather than asking to search.
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To the OP, if you want to use a vintage amp/receiver with built-in EQ, you can add the Bluetooth and streaming capabilities you want using a Bluetooth adapter (about $25) and/or Google Chromecast Audio (about $50 on auction sites since Google discontinued Chromecast Audio). No, they are not built in, but they are small enough (about 2" by 2") that they can be hidden behind the amp. I am doing exactly this with a Chromecast Audio hidden behind a 1972 Rotel receiver in my garage system -- works perfectly to stream into a nearly 50 year-old receiver.
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post #89 of 94 Old 01-09-2020, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjp View Post
That is the entire question being asked by the OP. He presumably has not been able to find them by searching, otherwise he wouldn't have started the thread. If you know of specific 2-channel receivers with eq, please post those units rather than asking to search.
Words of Wisdom for pjp: Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Google is such a wonderful friend.

Here is a free fish for the OP.

Yamaha R-N803 2-Ch x 100 Watts Networking Stereo Receiver.
$549.99 Factory Refurbished

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...specifications
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Save your money.
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post #90 of 94 Old 01-09-2020, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzysig View Post
are there any 2 ch amps that have a good eq?


in 300-500 price range.


since there is confusion about what im asking:
a 2 channel amp with BUILT IN EQ


even a receiver that has good front stage amp would be ok
but I prefer a smaller digital 2 ch amp instead that has at least optical input.( preferably a network amp with BT and usb input though)
I would get a https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-w/heos/1.html which has two channels of amplification and built in EQ, optical input, and USB.

It also has lots of additional stuff that may be useful over time but it definitely seems to have what you are asking for, even your list of "preferences", and it is within your budget.
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