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post #1 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Turntable Input Buzzing Loudly

I've had my same turntable setup for about 3.5 years. My turntable has a preamp plugged into my primary media room processor and had no troubles until a couple months ago. Now when I switch over to my turntable input on my processor my speakers start buzzing very loudly, so my turntable is basically unusable right now. I tried unplugging the power from every other component in the system except the preamp, processor, and amps to see if I could isolate what was causing it, but the buzzing is still there. Everything in the system is plugged into the same power circuit. Any ideas what is going on? I can't figure out why it worked for so long and now all of a sudden it's not when I can't think of anything that changed or I disconnected anything that had changed. Is it possible that the preamp went bad? I don't have another one laying around to check.


Am I thinking correctly that sometimes the outside internet/tv cable connection into the house can somehow create ground loops? I went several months without trying to play my turntable before I discovered this problem, so there is a pretty big window where something could have changed. I do know we had to get a new cable internet cable hooked up to the house in that window because our previous cable got cut when our neighbor had an irrigation system installed, but I don't know if that could have anything to do with it or not. Seems unlikely, but thought it might be worth mentioning.

7.2.4 Setup | Display: LG 77" C8 OLED | Blu-ray: Oppo UDP-203 | Processor: Anthem AVM60 | Amps: Outlaw 7700, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 | Speakers: Paradigm Prestige (2) 95F's, 55C, (4) 15B's, (4) CI-Elite E65-R (Atmos) | Subs: (2) Rythmik F25's

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post #2 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 06:59 AM
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If its only when you switch to the turntable maybe your preamp did go bad.

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post #3 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
If its only when you switch to the turntable maybe your preamp did go bad.

No, it doesn't have a phono input. I was reading some articles about this issue and some suggestions were that it could be wires in the cartridge came loose perhaps. I had checked all of the wiring between the processor and the preamp, but I didn't dig into the wiring in the turntable itself yet. I'll have to check that. The volume of the buzzing changes when I change the volume on the processor, so I believe that means it's definitely coming from either the preamp or the turntable.

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post #4 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 07:15 AM
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Buzzing or humming is often the ground. Have you checked your ground wire?

Vinyl, tape, digital... I don't care as long as I can listen to my music...
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post #5 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Muphasta View Post
Buzzing or humming is often the ground. Have you checked your ground wire?

Yes, it has always been connected and didn't make any difference.

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Have you:
connected the phono preamp to another input on your processor?
connected another source to the input you are using for your turntable?
Do you have a friend nearby with a turntable that you could pop your preamp into his/her system to see if it introduces a hum to his/her system?

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post #7 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 08:18 AM
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So you have your TT plugged into some unidentified phono preamp, which is then plugged into one of the line-level inputs on the Anthem; is that right? One thing you could try is plug the TT directly into the Anthem. The output will be very weak, but if there is no hum, then perhaps the phono preamp is bad. You could also purchase a cheap phono preamp and try that. I was also going to say to check the ground but you've already answered that.
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post #8 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 08:19 AM
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Is it a "HUM" or a "Buzzzzzzzz"? It probably makes a difference guessing the source of the problem.


If you suspect "cable" (internet/TV), just disconnect the incoming coax from the cable boxes and router and see if the noise stops.


Personally, at first guess, if it only happens when using the TT, I'd suspect:
1) bad cartridge?
2) bad preamp?
3) faulty wires/cables/connections?
4) faulty input on the amp/receiver?
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post #9 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muphasta View Post
Have you:
connected the phono preamp to another input on your processor?
connected another source to the input you are using for your turntable?
Do you have a friend nearby with a turntable that you could pop your preamp into his/her system to see if it introduces a hum to his/her system?

I haven't tried another input on the Anthem, but I could try that.
I haven't tried connecting another source. I'm doubtful it's the processor, but I will definitely try those things if I can't find anything wrong with the preamp or the turntable wiring.
I'm actually seeing someone this weekend where I might be able to bring my preamp to see if that shows an issue. I'll give that a try.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
So you have your TT plugged into some unidentified phono preamp, which is then plugged into one of the line-level inputs on the Anthem; is that right? One thing you could try is plug the TT directly into the Anthem. The output will be very weak, but if there is no hum, then perhaps the phono preamp is bad. You could also purchase a cheap phono preamp and try that. I was also going to say to check the ground but you've already answered that.

Yes, that is correct. Pro-Ject Debut 3 Turntable-->Pro-Ject preamp-->Anthem processor. I could try plugging in the TT directly into the Anthem to see what happens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Is it a "HUM" or a "Buzzzzzzzz"? It probably makes a difference guessing the source of the problem.


If you suspect "cable" (internet/TV), just disconnect the incoming coax from the cable boxes and router and see if the noise stops.


Personally, at first guess, if it only happens when using the TT, I'd suspect:
1) bad cartridge?
2) bad preamp?
3) faulty wires/cables/connections?
4) faulty input on the amp/receiver?

I would say it's more like a buzz.


OK, looks like I have some things to try. I'll report back once I get a chance to try them. Thank you for the help!
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post #10 of 32 Old 06-06-2019, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
Now when I switch over to my turntable input on my processor my speakers start buzzing very loudly, so my turntable is basically unusable right now.
A bad or poorly seated ground wire from the turntable to the phono preamp unit. Check to see both ends are clean and firmly connected.
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post #11 of 32 Old 06-07-2019, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried several of the suggestions and I think I have it narrowed down to the preamp. When I unplug the turntable from the preamp the buzzing is still there. I tried other inputs on the processor and the buzzing is still there. I'm going to bring my preamp to someone else's house this weekend to see if the buzzing occurs there too.

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post #12 of 32 Old 06-07-2019, 10:15 AM
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As Ratman suggested, disconnect the cable TV coax from the wall.

Music room: Cary SLI-80 tube integrated amplifier, McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier, Quad 99 preamp, Quad 909 power amp, Acoustic Research AR9 loudspeakers, Yamaha CD-N500 CD player, Teac UD-503 DSD DAC, Phase Linear 8000II linear-tracking turntable.
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Is there an external power supply with that preamp? If so, perhaps that may be sick.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #14 of 32 Old 06-09-2019, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
Yes, it has always been connected and didn't make any difference.

RE: Earth Ground Wire
- disconnect, inspect, and reconnect the Earth Ground. The Earth Ground could be corroded, or the wire could be frayed, or similar.

Try plugging in the turntable without the Phono Pre-Amp. No, that won't work to play music properly, but it will indicate if the problem is in the turntable.

Next try plugging the Phono Pre-Amp with the Turntable DIS-Connected into another RCA input on the amp. If you have the same problem that indicates that it is likely the Phono Pre-Amp that is the problem and not the Amp itself.

Really it is about a process of elimination. My intuitive suspicion is that something has crapped out in the Phono Pre-Amp.

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post #15 of 32 Old 06-09-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Is there an external power supply with that preamp? If so, perhaps that may be sick.
Agreed, these power supplies can be generally different. In some cases they supply DC, in other cases they supply AC and it is rectified, and regulated inside the Device, in this case that would be the Phono Pre-Amp.

If the power supply is DC, then it could have failed in the Power Supply and it is now supply AC to the Device.

If the output of the Power Supply is AC, then it could be that some part of the rectification or regulation circuits in the Phone Pre-Amp have crapped out.

If it has an external Power Brick, perhaps there is a way you could substitute another source of power to determine if the Power Supply is the problem, which would potentially imply that the Phono Pre-Amp itself is not the problem.

Rather that take the Problem Pre-Amp to a friend and risk his system, perhaps start by borrowing a known good Phono Pre-Amp and trying that on your system.

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post #16 of 32 Old 06-09-2019, 02:51 PM
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A relatively inexpensive test would be to get a Behringer U-phonoUFO202 (about $35 at B&H). This is a USB-powered preamp and DAC. I bought it for ripping LPs, but it can also be a phono preamp. It does need USB power; you could power it from a laptop computer running battery (that's there no possibility of AC contamination).
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post #17 of 32 Old 06-09-2019, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Is there an external power supply with that preamp? If so, perhaps that may be sick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Agreed, these power supplies can be generally different. In some cases they supply DC, in other cases they supply AC and it is rectified, and regulated inside the Device, in this case that would be the Phono Pre-Amp.

If the power supply is DC, then it could have failed in the Power Supply and it is now supply AC to the Device.

If the output of the Power Supply is AC, then it could be that some part of the rectification or regulation circuits in the Phone Pre-Amp have crapped out.

If it has an external Power Brick, perhaps there is a way you could substitute another source of power to determine if the Power Supply is the problem, which would potentially imply that the Phono Pre-Amp itself is not the problem.

Rather that take the Problem Pre-Amp to a friend and risk his system, perhaps start by borrowing a known good Phono Pre-Amp and trying that on your system.

Steve/bluewizard

I guess you could say it has an external power supply. It's just a 16v plug-in and the wall plug is about the size of a golf ball. Anyway, I did take it to my friends house and it buzzed there too. So it's definitely the preamp in some way, either the power supply or the preamp itself. Thank you everyone for the help. Either I'll try to switch the power supply or get a new preamp.

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post #18 of 32 Old 06-09-2019, 07:10 PM
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Are you dead sure all was initially fine and then suddenly, for no known reason, one day it just started to buzz? Or is the buzz faint enough such that it is possible it was always there all along but you just didn''t notice it until you really started focusing on the sound?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluecow003 View Post
I guess you could say it has an external power supply. It's just a 16v plug-in and the wall plug is about the size of a golf ball....
16 volts, but how many Amps, and AC or DC?

What type of connector does it have?

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post #20 of 32 Old 06-14-2019, 06:08 PM
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Turntable Input Buzzing Loudly

Had this issue few months ago; was evidently interference from cable box. Based on recommendations I added a filter to in wall cable & went away.

Good luck, very frustrating

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post #21 of 32 Old 06-14-2019, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
A relatively inexpensive test would be to get a Behringer U-phono UFO202 (about $35 at B&H). This is a USB-powered preamp and DAC. I bought it for ripping LPs, but it can also be a phono preamp. It does need USB power; you could power it from a laptop computer running battery (that's there no possibility of AC contamination).
If you need new Phono Preamp, Amazon has UFO202 for $28 with free Prime S/H:
https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UFO.../dp/B002GHBYZ0
https://www.behringer.com/search/Beh...oogtrans(en|en)

I plugged mine into a "USB Wall Charger" I had lying around...or to laptop via long USB extension cable when making recordings:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=usb+wall+...nb_sb_ss_i_6_3


OTOH: IF it turns out you need a CATV Ground Loop Isolator:
https://www.amazon.com/Ancable-Isola.../dp/B074KD8X6S
https://www.amazon.com/Ground-Isolat.../dp/B013KTR8QG

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post #22 of 32 Old 06-14-2019, 07:03 PM
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Heads up on the UFO-202: some reports showing substantiating objective data measurements to back it up, shows it can overload on peaks with at least some high output MM cartridges. I'd be leery of it.
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post #23 of 32 Old 06-15-2019, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Heads up on the UFO-202: some reports showing substantiating objective data measurements to back it up, shows it can overload on peaks with at least some high output MM cartridges. I'd be leery of it.
Thanks for the head up: I bought one of these for digitizing my LPs and I didn't realize this "problem". The computer I was using didn't have a line input (only a microphone one), so I use the UFO-202 to interface with the computer; I'm using Audacity. I don't want to invest any more time if this problem does exist; How can I test for it?
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post #24 of 32 Old 06-15-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I don't want to invest any more time if this problem does exist; How can I test for it?
I have a bunch of things to say:

A. I am not the originator of this data so I can't vouch for its accuracy nor the methodology used.
B. It could be an issue only with a very rare cartridge with an abnormally loud output level compared to most, so 99% of people would never notice it, I don't know.
C. Even the supplier of this data [top Amazon review] admits to not hearing it but only seeing the problem on Audacity waveform images. If I'm understanding him correctly he's comparing the output of the UFO202 using its RIAA EQ phono preamp to a raw recording without RIAA EQ [and then applying it later after the fact in software?]
D. I can see why he can't hear it: it seems very mild. Only exceeding brief transients, peaks, needle thin bursts in the supplied image [see the prominent one at 3 seconds on the bottom image] look as if the have been cut off or "clipped" [the top image] compared the raw signal [image below]:



In a weird sense what the UFO202 is doing could theoretically be beneficial for some: recording the signal at the absolutely loudest you possibly can helps keep the pesky background hiss at bay. Recording engineers often use a device to purposefully get the exact same effect called a "limiter".

Also in theory these tiny, thread thin transients it is clipping or "brick wall flattening" are possibly actually pops and ticks on this poor condition LP and they never existed in the original master file itself. We would need to see the same song from a digital file, like from a CD, to verify that.
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post #25 of 32 Old 06-17-2019, 07:40 AM
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I would like to test this out, the report attached above was made using a Pickering V15 cartridge, I have an Ortofon 2M Red. Is there a significant difference in the output between these two? I do have an LP with extreme modulation which I will use for the test. I can also look at "scratch pops".
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post #26 of 32 Old 06-17-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I would like to test this out, the report attached above was made using a Pickering V15 cartridge, I have an Ortofon 2M Red. Is there a significant difference in the output between these two? I do have an LP with extreme modulation which I will use for the test. I can also look at "scratch pops".
Spec sheets are often exaggerated claims to make a product look good, but if we are to believe the Pickering manual the V-15 has an output level of "4.4 mV" [I'm guessing they mean at 1 kHz with a standardize groove modulation level and track radius]. Your Ortofon 2M Red claims 5.5mV.
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post #27 of 32 Old 06-17-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Spec sheets are often exaggerated claims to make a product look good, but if we are to believe the Pickering manual the V-15 has an output level of "4.4 mV" [I'm guessing they mean at 1 kHz with a standardize groove modulation level and track radius]. Your Ortofon 2M Red claims 5.5mV.
So, I guess the Ortofon might be worse than the Pickering in terms of this potential problem! I guess I will proceed with my test. Thanks
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post #28 of 32 Old 06-17-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
So, I guess the Ortofon might be worse than the Pickering in terms of this potential problem! I guess I will proceed with my test. Thanks
I'm assuming you are going to look at your own images on Audacity. Makes sense and I'm happy you are conducting the test, but how will we know for sure if any "flat lining" you might find isn't embedded in the recording itself? [Loudness war and all.]
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post #29 of 32 Old 06-17-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I'm assuming you are going to look at your own images on Audacity. Makes sense and I'm happy you are conducting the test, but how will we know for sure if any "flat lining" you might find isn't embedded in the recording itself? [Loudness war and all.]
Yes, and will report the results here!
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post #30 of 32 Old 06-18-2019, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I'm assuming you are going to look at your own images on Audacity. Makes sense and I'm happy you are conducting the test, but how will we know for sure if any "flat lining" you might find isn't embedded in the recording itself? [Loudness war and all.]
I was unable to run the test last night, but I found an older .AUP (audacity project) file from an organ record. I examined the full length of the file and found the highest peak, which is probably a "click". Its width is about .3 milliseconds and its peak amplitude is .7. If I'm interpreting this right, then it doesn't appear to be clipped at all. I'm attaching two screens of the same region, at different scales. This is a mono recording.
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