Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 2019 Pictures and Impressions - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
"Just these 4 drivers alone would account for $1,892 in your bill of materials."

Some of this stuff in the quantities these small manufactures purchase is just unbelievably expensive. I remember Harry Weisfeld was challenged on the cost, his cost, for the motor for the Classic 4 Direct Drive. He quickly produced his invoice for $4,000 for a damn motor, and again, that's his cost. Most of these little companies just get by as no one or almost no one gets rich from this hobby.

"beat the performance of the reigning champ – the Revel Ultima Salon 2"

Says who? I can think of many many speakers I prefer over those.

I do want to hear the Tekton Moab next year at AXPONA as I wasn't as thrilled as I thought I would be with the big ones (not the Moab) that I heard at AXPONA.

Hi Scott,


Yes, I agree with you. There are speakers that can outperform the Revel Salon2 in one or more categories like imaging, midrange smoothness, airy treble, bass attack, macro dynamics, higher efficiency, styling, appearance, size, etc., but it is hard to find one that performs so well across all categories at this 22k price point.



So when I go to these shows like CES, I always try to find something priced under 22k that could beat the Revel Salon2 in the overall score.



This is why I use the Revel Salon2 speakers as a yardstick or benchmark in audio design.



You have an extraordinary history behind many speakers and models way beyond our reach! You would be the right person to guide us to these hidden gems. Before you showed me your pictures, I would have never guessed such gigantic speakers were actually manufactured and sold to audio enthusiasts


Best regards,


David
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post #362 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapas View Post
Hi Scott,


Yes, I agree with you. There are speakers that can outperform the Revel Salon2 in one or more categories like imaging, midrange smoothness, airy treble, bass attack, macro dynamics, higher efficiency, styling, appearance, size, etc., but it is hard to find one that performs so well across all categories at this 22k price point.



So when I go to these shows like CES, I always try to find something priced under 22k that could beat the Revel Salon2 in the overall score.



This is why I use the Revel Salon2 speakers as a yardstick or benchmark in audio design.



You have an extraordinary history behind many speakers and models way beyond our reach! You would be the right person to guide us to these hidden gems. Before you showed me your pictures, I would have never guessed such gigantic speakers were actually manufactured and sold to audio enthusiasts


Best regards,


David
I didn’t get to hear the MOAB but how would you rate it, sound wise, to the Salon2 ?

Chris
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post #363 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
I didn’t get to hear the MOAB but how would you rate it, sound wise, to the Salon2 ?

Chris

Hi Chris,


The Tekton MOAB speakers were the very first ones I heard at RMAF 2019. The moment they started to play my initial gut reaction was they were performing at the same level as the Revel Salon2. This is what got me so intrigued when I found that they sell for only $4,500.



David
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post #364 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Tapas View Post
Hi Scott,

Yes, I agree with you. There are speakers that can outperform the Revel Salon2 in one or more categories like imaging, midrange smoothness, airy treble, bass attack, macro dynamics, higher efficiency, styling, appearance, size, etc., but it is hard to find one that performs so well across all categories at this 22k price point.

So when I go to these shows like CES, I always try to find something priced under 22k that could beat the Revel Salon2 in the overall score.

This is why I use the Revel Salon2 speakers as a yardstick or benchmark in audio design.

You have an extraordinary history behind many speakers and models way beyond our reach! You would be the right person to guide us to these hidden gems. Before you showed me your pictures, I would have never guessed such gigantic speakers were actually manufactured and sold to audio enthusiasts

Best regards,

David
My interest is still pretty much there, but my ability to purchase has been diminished by 1) my old age and 2) wasting hundreds upon hundreds of thousands on this hobby (and a couple others) over six decades, plus I'm not very easily impressed anymore. My hearing is actually pretty good for a Methuselah, but first thing I'm listening for is that three dimensional stuff where there are few metrics and not much in the way of measurements. If it fails when it comes to transparency, soundstage and imaging within that soundstage and scale with regards to those images, then we're done right there.

My first audio show was the last year that the CES was in NYC, which I think was 68 or 69 and then every year after to the summer CES in Chicago. Then when the Winter CES started in Vegas through to end of the high-end involvement with that show. I'm now down to one or two shows per year, and its more of a 'family' reunion type event to see those I've know for decades in the industry. I don't keep up as much anymore on the latest greatest flavor of the month, but I do know what I like and don't like.
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post #365 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 07:15 AM
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That's not a moab, "this is a MOAB." Massive Ordinance Air Blast, or "Mother of All Bombs"

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post #366 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I don't keep up as much anymore on the latest greatest flavor of the month, but I do know what I like and don't like.
this is so true for me also. I like my focals and want more of it. I like the magnepans and honestly they do enough of what they do(bargain). I like my subs. Im not sold on my amps or avr, but they do the job and play loud enough. only way I see improvement is more money....which needs to be balanced with some more essential things like wife/home/food/cars/health.

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post #367 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 07:38 AM
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this is so true for me also. I like my focals and want more of it. I like the magnepans and honestly they do enough of what they do(bargain). I like my subs. Im not sold on my amps or avr, but they do the job and play loud enough. only way I see improvement is more money....which needs to be balanced with some more essential things like wife/home/food/cars/health.
Although I very much want a bigger garage, I don't want the 7,000 or 8,000 sq ft house that generally comes with it back here. So likely the house stays and I just deal with it when it comes to the garage or find a shop someplace that's not too expensive. That leaves me with fairly small rooms for audio so I don't expect to change much around here. The LRSs are fine for up here and something similar to the MLs in the listening room. Given how long it took me to get these positioned properly, I'm in no big hurry to start over again.
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post #368 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 08:31 AM
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PranaFidelity was showing their Model 108 loudspeakers sporting some expensive drivers.

Right away I could see they were using two Accutone C90 Ceramic Dome midrange drivers per side.

These drivers cost $473 each.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...dome-midrange/


Just these 4 drivers alone would account for $1,892 in your bill of materials.

But, what about the sound?

Yes, the midrange was smooth and clean but so were the Tektons. Nothing jumped out at me to conclude that this midrange performed significantly better than what the MOABs were achieving with a far cheaper array of 15 tweeters per side.

This brought me to the realization that expensive drivers do not always translate to superior performance.

PranaFidelity was asking $34,950 for the pair. I think that was a bit too much.

If you design a speaker costing over $22,000, it has to meet or beat the performance of the reigning champ – the Revel Ultima Salon 2. Otherwise a discerning customer will listen to both and chose the Revel.

This was almost the end of Day-2. Went back to the Tekton room and listened to some more tracks. I could see why this room was so crowded. The sound was glorious.


More to come...


David

Hmm, I thought the Prana sounded sounded fantastic, with incredible immediacy and "live-ness". I came back to that room two or three times. My buddy and I also listened to the Moab for a while and thought the bass, while awesomely deep, seemed too slow and ponderous. Maybe the room was just too small for them and I would like to hear them again.
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post #369 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 11:38 AM
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Hmm, I thought the Prana sounded sounded fantastic, with incredible immediacy and "live-ness". I came back to that room two or three times. My buddy and I also listened to the Moab for a while and thought the bass, while awesomely deep, seemed too slow and ponderous. Maybe the room was just too small for them and I would like to hear them again.



Your are absolutely correct.


The bass response on the Pranas were clean, quick and tight. I felt the smaller bass drivers on the Prana 108 speakers were an ideal fit for the smaller room it was being demoed in. I had no complaints in the bass department.


The Tektons would have been ideal in a room about 14' x 30'. The bass from the dual 12" woofers were pressurizing the room during the deep organ notes. I felt it needed a larger room to shine and display its full potential.


The real magic was coming from its unusual 15 element tweeter array. The combined cost of these tweeters were far less than the 4 Ceramic Accuton Midrange drivers on the Prana set. Yet, the Tektons delivered the goods when it came to an electrostatic level performance with a smooth coherent midrange and treble with incredible detail.



David
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post #370 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 12:09 PM
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Your are absolutely correct.

The bass response on the Pranas were clean, quick and tight. I felt the smaller bass drivers on the Prana 108 speakers were an ideal fit for the smaller room it was being demoed in. I had no complaints in the bass department.

The Tektons would have been ideal in a room about 14' x 30'. The bass from the dual 12" woofers were pressurizing the room during the deep organ notes. I felt it needed a larger room to shine and display its full potential.

The real magic was coming from its unusual 15 element tweeter array. The combined cost of these tweeters were far less than the 4 Ceramic Accuton Midrange drivers on the Prana set. Yet, the Tektons delivered the goods when it came to an electrostatic level performance with a smooth coherent midrange and treble with incredible detail.

David
This is what I found it didn't do with whatever model I heard at AXPONA. Getting there, but still didn't recreate the space as many ESLs can. This is my BFD when it comes to choosing speakers
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post #371 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 12:17 PM
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This is what I found it didn't do with whatever model I heard at AXPONA. Getting there, but still didn't recreate the space as many ESLs can. This is my BFD when it comes to choosing speakers

Aha! I guess then we need to upgrade the Tektons with the Beryllium Tweeters to narrow that gap


Large well designed Electrostatic panels are in a class of their own. It is hard to excel their performance.


David
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post #372 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 12:50 PM
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Just to clarify what I have heard about the moab speaker, There is only a single driver in the array working as the tweeter, the rest are doing the midrange.
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post #373 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 12:51 PM
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Aha! I guess then we need to upgrade the Tektons with the Beryllium Tweeters to narrow that gap

Large well designed Electrostatic panels are in a class of their own. It is hard to excel their performance.

David
I'll pass on the beryllium.

The downside of the ESLs is the effort required to get them to really do their thing. Placement is a real SOB. ML is about the worst example at shows with their chitty placement. I offer to help, but Dennis always tells me, Scott, we gotta to be able to get people in the room as they, ML, aren't the only ones paying for the room.
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post #374 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 07:27 PM
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RMAF 2019: Hi-FiGuides.com

Day-3: Sunday

This was the day I was going to make my final recommendation. I knew I had to be in the Red Rock 1 Ballroom by 1:30 to hear THE SONUS FABER demo.

But first I headed off to Room 9105 set up by HiFiGuides.com

I liked how they put a sign on the door saying – You can afford things in this room.

The room was packed and for good reasons. Finally someone had taken the initiative to compare headphones, headphone amps, DACs, Speakers and Near field monitors at down to earth prices.

This must have taken a lot of effort to haul all these components to the show, set up the switchers and I applaud them for their public service.

If you wanted to buy a budget component and make an instant comparison on their performance with similarly priced gear, this was the room to visit.

This service alone was the worth the price of admission to the show and I hope they come back next year.


David
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post #375 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 08:31 PM
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RMAF 2019: Polk Audio

I bumped into Eric several times at the show because he too was scouting the different demo rooms to see who had the most innovating speaker designs.

I ran into Eric in the lobby and he asked, “Have you been to the Polk Audio room yet? This is something you must see.”

So we headed off to the Polk Audio demo room 5105.

Polk Audio was showing their new LEGEND L800 floorstanding towers.

There were only a few seats positioned back to back exactly down the centerline of the speakers.

The imaging of this pair instantly blew everything else out at this show. The difference was so dramatic, that it did not warrant an A/B comparison.

The speakers themselves were placed about 8’ apart. However, if you positioned your head exactly along the centerline, the soundstage opened up deep and wide easily extending another 20’ on either side.

Now this is what I call audio magic!

These speakers simply disappeared, making you feel you were sitting in the front row, center seat facing a gigantic stage where you could pinpoint every performer in an almost 180 degree arc.

How were they achieving this?

Matthew Polk began his pioneering work on this technology that he called Stereo Dimensional Array (SDA) decades ago. The massive and tall SDA-SRS was one of his earlier designs released in 1985.

The LEGEND L800 is the latest incarnation.

The premise behind SDA technology is to eliminate the cross pollution when you listen to a pair of stereo speakers. Mr. Polk believed you can enjoy a much cleaner sound that retained all the spatial cues if there was a way to prevent your left ear from hearing the sound meant for the right ear and vice versa. Imagine a giant headphone where there is no cross talk.

To do this, he used the principles of noise cancellation and timing delays.

Each L800 speaker column has two identical tweeter/midrange array.

The array closest to your ear is emanating the direct sound. This is what you want to hear in your left and right ears from the left and right channels.

However, the outside array of the left speaker is playing the right channel with reversed polarity to cancel out the right channel from reaching your left ear and vice versa. In addition it is applying the correct timing difference.

To pull this off I am guessing these speakers need to be interconnected by a wire.

All this may sound like science fiction, but it does miracles to the resulting imaging and sound stage.

There is no question the LEGEND L800 had everything beat by a mile when it came to imaging – regardless of price.

And here was the final surprise. They were affordably priced at $6,000 a pair.

I respect design endeavors like this.

David
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post #376 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 09:36 PM
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Rmaf 2019: The sonus faber demo

It was 1:30pm. I could not hold back my excitement and went into the Sonus Faber demo room in Red Rock 1.

This was a large ballroom, the perfect venue to display the mighty SONUS FABER.

I was fortunate to grab the best seat – front row, center.

It was a visual spectacle. You can’t help but admire the curved polished panels and the extreme refinement that went behind this handcrafted pair. Who said tall towers have to look like a beast?

And then the music began to play. They did not use any digital sources. The depth, width, height and weight of the soundstage were mind boggling. The sheer power of the deep bass could be felt through your body without a trace of bloat.

Every instrument sounded crystal clear. It was like looking through a magnifying glass.

Then they played Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon on Vinyl. They started with Money and played all the way through Us and Them.

I have listened to these iconic tracks so many times on so many different systems over the years. THE SONUS FABERs revealed intricate details and complex layering of instruments that I never knew existed. It felt chilling. I could have closed my eyes and touched David Gilmour playing his soaring guitar licks in front of me.

Everybody in the audience listened through the entire 30 min demo in shocked silence. No one left even after the music stopped.

The Sonus Faber rep asked me what I felt sitting in the sweet spot.

I said, “This has been a religious experience! Now I know what a $250,000 speaker sounds like.”

I asked how much the system costs. The Audio Research Monoblocks and associated gear brings up the system price to $350k.

This is as close to a live event you could enjoy from the comfort of your home. I think this sounds even better than what a sound engineer hears in the mastering studio.

The reproduced sound was flawless from top to bottom from these giant 676lb transducers. There was nothing left to nitpick. This is truly a fascinating work of art and engineering.

I concur with every word in this glowing review:

https://www.tonepublications.com/rev...r-se-speakers/

Here are the specs:

https://www.sonusfaber.com/en/products/the-sonus-faber/

Now that I had listened to everything at RMAF 2019, who should I call out as the best of the show?

The massive Sigma Acoustics MAAT Vector XAC Loudspeakers sounded pretty darn good at $180,000. It too had tremendous dynamics, depth, and clarity.

It would be a close call but I would have to give THE SONUS FABERS the nod.


More to follow…


David
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post #377 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 10:27 PM
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I said, “This has been a religious experience! Now I know what a $250,000 speaker sounds like.”
Their top model was I think $200K back when I carried them. But that was over a decade ago and I guess with inflation things have gone up a bit.

It is good you got to hear them, and from a great seat, and with great music: Now you'll never have to wonder what the best stuff sounds like because you've actually heard it!
---

As with all top-flight lines I carried, the units don't just show up at your door and you start selling them. There is a massive amount of training an authorized dealer goes through, behind the scenes, whenever there is a new product launch so the dealer will be well versed on the products they carry.

Their trainers related to us an interesting story once. Apparently the Sonus Faber executives and designers frequently brunched with their peers working at the Lamborghini plant, also in Italy. This is because they share the same interest/passion in the fine craftsmanship of their wares [Sonus Faber literally means "handcrafted sound"] even though they work in completely different fields.

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post #378 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 11:07 PM
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Their top model was I think $200K back when I carried them. But that was over a decade ago and I guess with inflation things have gone up a bit.

It is good you got to hear them, and from a great seat, and with great music: Now you'll never have to wonder what the best stuff sounds like because you've actually heard it!
---

As with all top-flight lines I carried, the units don't just show up at your door and you start selling them. There is a massive amount of training an authorized dealer goes through, behind the scenes, whenever there is a new product launch so the dealer will be well versed on the products they carry.

Their trainers related to us an interesting story once. Apparently the Sonus Faber executives and designers frequently brunched with their peers working at the Lamborghini plant, also in Italy. This is because they share the same interest/passion in the fine craftsmanship of their wares [Sonus Faber literally means "handcrafted sound"] even though they work in completely different fields.

Oh my God! So you are an actual Sonus Faber dealer? I had no clue. You are a lucky man to have enjoyed the world's finest and share the company of these industry stalwarts.



I cannot imagine how much hard work, perseverance and passion it took to get to where you are today.


I salute you!


David
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post #379 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 11:12 PM
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Rmaf 2019: The best bargain

After the completely mesmerizing and jaw dropping Sonus Faber demo I went back to the Tekton/Parasound room. With my audio memory still fresh, will I still be able to get satisfaction listening to the MOABs?

The rep from the hi-res streaming service QOBUZ was there. He wanted to experience firsthand how well his specially curated collection of 24-Bit/192kHz audio streams would sound on the Tekton MOAB speakers.

Eric Alexander set up the room for this special QOBUZ demo. Everything was being streamed live into the Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated Amp which did triple duty as a DAC, Pre amp and Power amp.

The QOBUZ rep played some crazy demo tracks to test the sonic gymnastics these mighty MOABs are capable of.

I was startled at the purity, separation of individual instruments, razor sharp imaging and 3D soundstage.

I realized right away that you need speakers like the MOABs with their resolving power and tonal accuracy to enjoy the benefits of a 24-Bit/192kHz stream. This took the presentation to a whole new level of refinement over the standard Red Book CDs they were playing through the OPPO disc player earlier.

With this 24-Bit/192kHz source, I felt the performance of the MOABs came within kissing distance of my two top choices. I could see how the sound from these speakers could be enhanced further by mating it with a more capable amp.

The QOBUZ demo won me over. It made me realize that there is no need to buy $17k turntables with $9k phono cartridges as demoed in the YG Acoustics room.

All you really need is a $24.99/month subscription to this QOBUZ service that gives you access to over 2 million high rez tracks up to 24-Bit/192kHz.

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/music/streaming/offers

Or, you could just get their Sublime Service for $299.99 a year and enjoy discounted prices on downloaded tracks.

Tidal by contrast has only 1 million high rez tracks. You can stream lossless CD quality 16-Bit/44.1kHz tracks for $19.99 a month.

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/a...cription-Types

The investment an audiophile has to make to enjoy a system like the Sonus Faber or the Sigma Acoustics is enormous. They deserve to be prized and cherished by a lucky few. These are statement products from the world’s finest Hi-End manufacturers.

My hats off to them who can afford it.

By contrast, a system like the Tekton/Paradigm brings the essence of Hi-End sound to the music lover at down to earth prices. With just a pair of MOABs, the slender Parasound 200 Integrated Amp and a $24.99 monthly subscription to QOBUZ, you are set to explore and enjoy a universe of 2 million hi-rez audio tracks in the comfort of your living room.

An investment of $5,695 will not break the bank. It would guarantee musical enjoyment for the whole family for the next 20 years.

Had I not come to this show, I wouldn’t have known that such a system exists that offers such an extraordinary value.

At the end of the day as the show was closing down at 4pm, I told Eric I would be buying a pair of MOABs.

This system my friends, takes the honor of being the best bargain of the show.

Best regards,

David
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post #380 of 433 Old 09-20-2019, 11:57 PM
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Oh my God! So you are an actual Sonus Faber dealer?
I was a Sonus Faber dealer for well over a decade but I am now retired from that industry. Also Wilson Audio. Did you check out their new $329,000 speakers at the show?
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I was a Sonus Faber dealer for well over a decade but I am now retired from that industry. Also Wilson Audio. Did you check out their new $329,000 speakers at the show?
Yes, I did!

Getting the opportunity to see the state-of-the-art Wilson Audio Master Chronosonic was my reason to come to RMAF. I knew it would only be a static display but then I was surprised to see that Daryl Wilson had also brought along his newest creation - the Wilson Chronosonic XVX ($329K).

I thought both designs looked majestic. I asked Daryl where I could get a chance to audition them. He referred me to Mike Ware, owner of LMC Home Entertainment in Scottsdale.

Now that you have seen, auditioned and experienced the world's finest audio systems throughout your career as an authorized Sonus Faber/Wilson Audio dealer, I would be curious to know what kind of system you decided to have for your own enjoyment?

David
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I like the sound of Wilson but they look too "industrial/space ship" to me. [I also don't like how heavy they are, making playing around with room placement a nightmare, although I realize their heft is said to be important and is to reduce panel resonances which can color the sound].

Sonus I think sound great too, but in a different and more soothing/relaxed way, plus I think they win hands down in terms of blending visually to most decors. [Not the top model Sonus Faber, which looks slightly odd to me, but more like the Aida, Lilium, and their older models they made a decade ago.]

I can't afford either brands, at least at their top levels, plus I currently rent so investing in any serious speaker is not currently in the cards for me. I listen to headphones a lot, mostly Sennheiser, etymotic, Sony and Shure. My desktop speakers I use for near field work are the little cousins to the JBL M2's (~$20k?) which similarly use custom equalization for a dead flat response but retail for only ~$100/ea [305s]. Their bass below 49Hz is augmented with an SVS 12" acoustic suspension sub, I usually leave off so my neighbors don't complain.
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post #383 of 433 Old 09-21-2019, 06:22 AM
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.... My desktop speakers I use for near field work are the little cousins to the JBL M2's (~$20k?) which similarly use custom equalization for a dead flat response but retail for only ~$100/ea [305s]. Their bass below 49Hz is augmented with an SVS 12" acoustic suspension sub, I usually leave off so my neighbors don't complain.
a very good system, indeed as I had the same MkI 305's with the JBL 310s subwoofer. The best listening position I found was with the 305's (on stands) slightly in front of either end of a sofa with the drivers toe'ed in and pointed at me ears. I "upgraded" tp Airpulse Model 1 - a200... next upgrade will probably be Heresy III
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I bumped into Eric several times at the show because he too was scouting the different demo rooms to see who had the most innovating speaker designs.

I ran into Eric in the lobby and he asked, “Have you been to the Polk Audio room yet? This is something you must see.”

So we headed off to the Polk Audio demo room 5105.

Polk Audio was showing their new LEGEND L800 floorstanding towers.

There were only a few seats positioned back to back exactly down the centerline of the speakers.

The imaging of this pair instantly blew everything else out at this show. The difference was so dramatic, that it did not warrant an A/B comparison.

The speakers themselves were placed about 8’ apart. However, if you positioned your head exactly along the centerline, the soundstage opened up deep and wide easily extending another 20’ on either side.

Now this is what I call audio magic!

These speakers simply disappeared, making you feel you were sitting in the front row, center seat facing a gigantic stage where you could pinpoint every performer in an almost 180 degree arc.

How were they achieving this?

Matthew Polk began his pioneering work on this technology that he called Stereo Dimensional Array (SDA) decades ago. The massive and tall SDA-SRS was one of his earlier designs released in 1985.

The LEGEND L800 is the latest incarnation.

The premise behind SDA technology is to eliminate the cross pollution when you listen to a pair of stereo speakers. Mr. Polk believed you can enjoy a much cleaner sound that retained all the spatial cues if there was a way to prevent your left ear from hearing the sound meant for the right ear and vice versa. Imagine a giant headphone where there is no cross talk.

To do this, he used the principles of noise cancellation and timing delays.

Each L800 speaker column has two identical tweeter/midrange array.

The array closest to your ear is emanating the direct sound. This is what you want to hear in your left and right ears from the left and right channels.

However, the outside array of the left speaker is playing the right channel with reversed polarity to cancel out the right channel from reaching your left ear and vice versa. In addition it is applying the correct timing difference.

To pull this off I am guessing these speakers need to be interconnected by a wire.

All this may sound like science fiction, but it does miracle to the resulting imaging and sound stage.

There is no question the LEGEND L800 had everything beat by a mile when it came to imaging – regardless of price.

And here was the final surprise. They were affordably priced at $6,000 a pair.

I respect design endeavors like this.

David
"The premise behind SDA technology is to eliminate the cross pollution when you listen to a pair of stereo speakers. Mr. Polk believed you can enjoy a much cleaner sound that retained all the spatial cues if there was a way to prevent your left ear from hearing the sound meant for the right ear and vice versa. Imagine a giant headphone where there is no cross talk."

Yep, and right here is my reason for my non-ending conflict with Harman speakers and their quest for super wide dispersion and low directivity. Speakers can be Floyd Toole Flat and can still ruin the experience, IMO of course, because of the above. Flat is fine, but that's only about 1/3rd of the challenge, IMO. The above is the rest.
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Home Theater Dude, takes us to a few rooms with some audio demos.

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post #386 of 433 Old 09-21-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I like the sound of Wilson but they look too "industrial/space ship" to me. [I also don't like how heavy they are, making playing around with room placement a nightmare, although I realize their heft is said to be important and is to reduce panel resonances which can color the sound].

Sonus I think sound great too, but in a different and more soothing/relaxed way, plus I think they win hands down in terms of blending visually to most decors. [Not the top model Sonus Faber, which looks slightly odd to me, but more like the Aida, Lilium, and their older models they made a decade ago.]

I can't afford either brands, at least at their top levels, plus I currently rent so investing in any serious speaker is not currently in the cards for me. I listen to headphones a lot, mostly Sennheiser, etymotic, Sony and Shure. My desktop speakers I use for near field work are the little cousins to the JBL M2's (~$20k?) which similarly use custom equalization for a dead flat response but retail for only ~$100/ea [305s]. Their bass below 49Hz is augmented with an SVS 12" acoustic suspension sub, I usually leave off so my neighbors don't complain.
For as much playing around as I do with placement, that would pretty much rule out something like this is my house, not that finances wouldn't anyhow. I'll long remember the struggles, even with a couple of friends over, I had with the 1900lb ML Statements. Of course, much of that weight were the woofer towers, but sure stopped me from thinking, I'll try a half inch over this or that direction because it ain't gonna happen.
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For as much playing around as I do with placement, that would pretty much rule out something like this is my house, not that finances wouldn't anyhow. I'll long remember the struggles, even with a couple of friends over, I had with the 1900lb ML Statements. Of course, much of that weight were the woofer towers, but sure stopped me from thinking, I'll try a half inch over this or that direction because it ain't gonna happen.
Wilson dealers will come to your home and adjust the placement and individual drivers for you.

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David, too bad the MOAB have a “face for radio”

How big is your listening space and what are they replacing?

Chris
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post #389 of 433 Old 09-21-2019, 08:41 AM
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Wilson dealers will come to your home and adjust the placement and individual drivers for you.
I screw around with it so much, and of that, most of it is real late at night. I have to have something that 1) I can afford and 2) I can mess with by myself.
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post #390 of 433 Old 09-21-2019, 10:16 AM
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@Tapas

David, too bad the MOAB have a “face for radio

How big is your listening space and what are they replacing?

Chris
Face for Radio

Yes, I felt the MOAB speakers could do double duty as a prop in a scary Hollywood movie - no modification required.

That's why I am getting the grill.

My room is 14' wide x 30' long with a 9' ceiling.

I have two pairs of Mirage M-3si bipolar speakers, one pair in the front, one pair in the rear with a Paradigm Servo 15 powered sub. It is good system for listening to 4-channel DTS Audio CDs like Alan Parsons On Air.

I was planning to replace them at some point in the future with a pair of Revel Ultima Salon 2 speakers.

The Tekton MOABs demolished the Mirage M-3Sis in every category. I was sold.

David

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