The Stereo Image - left pull - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 09-18-2019, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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The Stereo Image - left pull

Help needed with A problem that seems to pop up depending on the room .

To make it short and already tested thoroughly

1. speakers are all fine in any sensitivity differences
2. Wiring and cables totally correct for each channel
3. Room has treatment with all first reflections covered and bass traps
4. I basically know it’s a room problem, but trying to fix it is exhausting

The room Anamolies: >> 24 long 14 wide 8 high Speakers exactly measured from front and back walls toed in 25 degrees-and sound excellent— except for the image pull.

A. Anamoly of room: the speakers left side wall to back wall have a “ small” alcove on left speaker side to the back wall of 4 feet wide and 10 inches deep.
B. The right wall opposite is straight and symmetrical to back right drywall. On this side—- about 4 feet beyond ( foreword of right speaker is a 6 by 3 window.
C. This window partially covered ( heavy moving blanket) at first right reflection point with 24 by 48 Full range absorber.
Left opposite side - first reflection has 24 by 48 full range absorber behind DRYWALL.

What I’ve DONE— applied 4 back to back HEAVY BLANKETS in the Left ALCOVE to absorb this opening midway between Left speaker and backwall alcove opening to make both sides symmetrical— somtimes it’s good- sometimes still image not perfectly centered.

NOW— any thoughts, ideas and or possible remedies appreciated
Thanks
Howard
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post #2 of 18 Old 09-18-2019, 09:37 AM
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Ah....?

"...first reflection has 24 by 48 full range absorber behind DRYWALL."

Behind the Drywall
- can you explain that? Is that a typo? I interpret that to mean that the Absorber is inside the wall.

Are you sure the image is perfectly center in the content? Meaning that it is the mix and not your room or system?

Can you tell us what your source is? Turntable? CD? Computer? Network Streamer? Other?

In fact give us a run down of the system - Amp, Source, and Speakers?

Steve/bluewizard
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post #3 of 18 Old 09-18-2019, 10:06 AM
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Though I am reluctant to go there, are you sure you are not experiencing aberrations in your hearing?

Consider your age and your circumstances. If you are exposed to very loud music, or if you are a shooter of guns, or if you work in a loud industrial setting then that could be an indicator? Being on the high side of life, and having experience way too much Rock-n-Roll, and having shot guns for years with no hearing protection, and having worked in industrial settings, my ears are shot. They haven't stopped ringing in 40 years. A young man's folly.

Though I'm not completely sure this will work, next time you hear the shift, try turning your back to the speakers, and see if the weakness follows your ears, or if it stays on the same speaker.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 09-18-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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post #4 of 18 Old 09-18-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howardmil View Post
Help needed with A problem that seems to pop up depending on the room .

To make it short and already tested thoroughly

1. speakers are all fine in any sensitivity differences
I'm curious what you mean by this. Are you saying you used a SPL meter from your listening position and verified with test tones that the SPL was the same for both left and right? If so, then it makes me think it is source related and not an inherent system problem.

Also interested with what source(s) you're experiencing this. All sources? I occasionally experience this with my turntable. Not with every LP, so I generally write it off as either a bad pressing or worn out grooves (I buy a lot of used vinyl) that my TT can't track well, or assume maybe that's just the way it was recorded/mastered.

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post #5 of 18 Old 09-18-2019, 02:33 PM
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An obvious question: Do you have a stereo balance control or AV channel-level settings?
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post #6 of 18 Old 09-18-2019, 02:35 PM
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Not trying to be snarky, but isn’t this the reason we have balance knobs?
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post #7 of 18 Old 09-18-2019, 03:52 PM
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Are you using a receiver with room correction? I've had the auto setup skew towards one speaker by a decibel or two. Just enough to move the center image slightly over. Regardless, use balance knob or speaker volume in setup if it's a receiver and fix it that way
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post #8 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 02:26 PM
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Maybe toe your left speaker in to about 30 degrees and the right one only in by 20 degrees. That might help shift the image to the right more.
In our last house my stereo was set up in an area that was closed to the left and open to the right. I ended up having the right speaker toed in about 5 degrees more for the best imaging.
It seemed odd to have them that way but it did sound better.
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post #9 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 02:45 PM
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A picture of the room and speakers would be invaluable for troubleshooting and suggestions.

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post #10 of 18 Old 09-22-2019, 07:36 AM
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The OP seems to be “one and done”. Unless I’m totally missing something, I don’t understand why someone would want to go through all of those gyrations when the “problem” could be solved by a clockwise click, or 2, on the balance knob. Is the OP trolling us? Am I dense and missing some critical grasp of stereo imaging? I’ve been in this hobby for 50 years and just fail to see the point of the post.
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post #11 of 18 Old 09-22-2019, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crn3371 View Post
Not trying to be snarky, but isn’t this the reason we have balance knobs?

First they came for the equalizers,
and I did not speak out because I hardly ever equalized.

Then they came for the tone controls,
and I did not speak out because I rarely
ever use bass or treble.

Now they've come for the balance control,
and there's no one left to speak for me.

Last edited by m. zillch; 09-22-2019 at 11:03 PM.
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post #12 of 18 Old 09-23-2019, 08:59 AM
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I personally have never had any desire, or use, for an equalizer. I could maybe be convinced to do without tone controls. The OP’s issue is why I could NEVER do without a balance knob. Few of us have the perfect listening room, or even a dedicated listening room, and I find it very important to have SOME type of control on my gear in order to compensate for room issues, bad recordings, etc.
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post #13 of 18 Old 09-23-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crn3371 View Post
I personally have never had any desire, or use, for an equalizer.
I hardly ever use them but I do on occasion, including Audyessy and YPAO. Audiophiles are often taught to hate them. Not sure if the notion is none of the following things have frequency response errors which might need tweaking, hence they "serve no purpose":

- recordings
- gear
- speakers
- room


Or perhaps one guy who didn't have any idea how to use one properly botched his sound with one, and then subsequently declared in a review or forum: "They suck. Avoid." and everyone else followed. . . . Might be a little of both reasons. [Very early EQs, decades ago, were noisy but that's no longer very common.]

Unbeknownst to many of the people who dismiss them, 99% of recordings have gone through one or more varieties of EQ in the recording studio mixing and mastering processes, including 100% of vinyl: RIAA pre-emphisis.

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post #14 of 18 Old 09-23-2019, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crn3371 View Post
Few of us have the perfect listening room, or even a dedicated listening room, and I find it very important to have SOME type of control on my gear in order to compensate for room issues, bad recordings, etc.
I'm very sensitive to having a dead centered sound stage and I find the exact center varies slightly from recording to recording, even from the exact same source through the exact same system/speakers/room/headphones.

I definitely wouldn't be happy without at the very least a balance control, easily addressed on the fly [rather than buried deep in a menu].

Last edited by m. zillch; 09-23-2019 at 10:42 AM.
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post #15 of 18 Old 10-08-2019, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies
1. Both speakers are perfectly measured from 3 walls— back , front left and front right.
2. The 2 sidewalls have absolutel absorption at first reflection points.
3. The right wall has a window behind absorber at first reflection point
4. The left wall has a 12 inch deep by 40 inch wide alcove adjacent to the left speaker ( problem?????????????)
4. Have bass traps above ceiling front corners and At ceiling between myself and listening position
5 speakers 4.5 feet from back wall to baffles
6. Ispeakers 8 feet separated- toe in 23 degrees
7.i sit 11 from speakers ,..putting me a bit more than half way back from middle of 24 foot room length
7. I’ve put absorption blankets over half right side window—and double absorption blankets across alcove opening adjacent to left speaker.
8. My thinking is the ALCOVE— must be symmetrical to the other side where right speaker sits ; namely DRYWALL
9. I can post pics
Thanks
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post #16 of 18 Old 10-08-2019, 11:01 AM
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As I wrote above, t doesn't matter if the room is 100% perfect in symmetry. There are still often L/R level irregularities due to:

- gear
- speakers
- current volume knob position channel tracking balance error
- individual hearing
- the recording itself [can even vary track to track, not just album to album]

Lots of, if not most high end gear lacks a balance control knob not because it is bad to have one but because they are being ridiculous and endorsing audiophile mythology ["Keep the signal path as short as possible so no bass, treble, nor balance control for you!"], in my opinion.

I have this on my wish list: https://www.ebay.com/i/264072048612?...CABEgITifD_BwE

Last edited by m. zillch; 10-08-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 10-08-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howardmil View Post
Both speakers
What are they, out of curiosity?
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post #18 of 18 Old 10-08-2019, 01:57 PM
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OP, no disrespect intended, but I’m at a loss as to why you’d want to go through all of this in lieu of turning a balance knob. Of course, if your gear is minus a balance control, then my apologies. I knew that there’s lots of gear out there without tone controls but I haven’t experienced anything without at least balance control.

Last edited by crn3371; 10-08-2019 at 02:01 PM.
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