My imagination, or can a 20 amp circuit make an audible difference? - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 131 Old 11-02-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
What specifically is "0 ohm" at the "transmission station"? These are YOUR words. Explain them. Don't deflect.

You are wasting my time, this is a question by the other person, read that. It's a very clear question that can be answered. If you don't understand and answer that, I start to question where you got your EE degree.

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post #122 of 131 Old 11-02-2019, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
So, you somehow imagine that all EE's do is sit around designing things? Far from reality. EE's manage systems, manage projects, inspect products and systems, buy electrical products to spec, run businesses, sell products, .... the list goes on.


But, I've spend many years designing, maintaining, and modifying nuclear plant power and control systems, among other things. Now I do cyber security work. Life happened. Growth happened. Opportunity happened.

I take your word, how can you find the question confusing, everyone understand, the question was answered in post #59 . I just want you to answer in a very simple layman's way. Now, let's get back into the technical discussion instead of dishing out insult like the one that doesn't know anything and just being sarcastic.

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post #123 of 131 Old 11-02-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Never heard that before!

Exactly, you need 20 amp lines!

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post #124 of 131 Old 11-02-2019, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
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Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
I use a Panamax MR 4300 in the rack. I did notice that the 20 amp connection was registering 122-123 volts on the Panamax display. I didn't pay a lot of attention, but it seems it was normally 119 or less on the 15 amp circuit. I know it tended to fluctuate a bit on the 15 amp line.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_299MR4...ax-MR4300.html

Either way, I am good, now that I have the dedicated 20 amp line. The new line eliminates the potential overload. I just thought the stereo system sounded better than usual yesterday and looked for opinions on whether it could be real or not. I probably will switch it back to the 15 amp line, just to see if I can tell a difference, but long term, it is staying on the 20 amp circuit. Thanks everyone.

You got the Rolls Royce of the power conditioner!!! That will do it for noise. As Long you have a dedicated line, it doesn't matter it's 15 or 20A, voltage will always fluctuate a little not even of your doing. Remember other people also use the main line. Those slow variation is not going to affect the sound. I think you are good.


I personally do not believe there's any magic on power line, just make sure it's enough ( 15A should be enough just to power your system). You don't need to go fancy on the power line. You have the Rolls Royce of power conditioner. You are good.
If a simple Panamax is a Rolls, what's that make my XR315 and SX1115RT SurgeXs?

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post #125 of 131 Old 11-02-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You are wasting my time, this is a question by the other person, read that. It's a very clear question that can be answered. If you don't understand and answer that, I start to question where you got your EE degree.

So, there you go, deflecting. You asked a question, you can't even clarify what you are asking. Stop pointing to other posts (and not even linking to them properly), you either know specifically what impedance you are asking about, or you don't. So just tell us.


Do you know specifically what impedance you are talking about, or not?
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post #126 of 131 Old 11-02-2019, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
So, there you go, deflecting. You asked a question, you can't even clarify what you are asking. Stop pointing to other posts (and not even linking to them properly), you either know specifically what impedance you are asking about, or you don't. So just tell us.


Do you know specifically what impedance you are talking about, or not?

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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
You are neglecting the source impedance of the utility. While for practical purposes in home HiFi, it's essentially zero ohms, but there is still reactance and that must be figured in as well if we are to be exact here.

Read the original post, together with post #65 :

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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
...................
The point here is practical engineering. The impedance of the utility what ever it is where you measure it is usually low enough to swap most severe EMI issues...........................
That's what we are talking about. If the impedance of the utility line is 0ohm or low enough to kill all the EMI, it should not be a problem. I answer the question. I just want you to answer in layman's term.

Is that clear enough? It's not a hard question, it's a good question.

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Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #127 of 131 Old 11-03-2019, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Read the original post, together with post #65 :



That's what we are talking about. If the impedance of the utility line is 0ohm or low enough to kill all the EMI, it should not be a problem. I answer the question. I just want you to answer in layman's term.

Is that clear enough? It's not a hard question, it's a good question.

The post you refer to said 'imepedance of utility", you are modifying it and saying "impedance of utility line". They are not necessarily the same thing, as one might look at 'the utility' as 'system' that has effectively zero impedance at the high side of the distribution transformer, or simply put effectively an infinite source of power. So, you can tell us if you intended one or the other.



Low impedance doesn't kill EMI, or prevent noise. A noise current forced into a high impedance circuit will result in a higher power noise than that same noise current forced into low impedance circuit. Power transmission and distribution lines are high power lines, and comparatively any induced noise will likely be very low power and insignificant.



But again, its all meaningless unless you discuss WHAT NOISE you are concerned with and WHERE the noise if from. Noise comes in different forms. Injected, induced, thermal, mother in laws, etc...

Last edited by DanPackMan; 11-03-2019 at 06:20 AM.
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post #128 of 131 Old 11-03-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
The post you refer to said 'imepedance of utility", you are modifying it and saying "impedance of utility line". They are not necessarily the same thing, as one might look at 'the utility' as 'system' that has effectively zero impedance at the high side of the distribution transformer, or simply put effectively an infinite source of power. So, you can tell us if you intended one or the other.
First, we end users see the "system" as your definition of "high side of the distribution transformer" THROUGH the TRANSMISSION LINE. So we end user see the transmission line. Even power line has to be looked at as transmission line( as they correctly named it Transmission Line).

Second, Even the distribution transformer is very low impedance......AT 60Hz, it's high impedance at the noise we are talking about at about 40KHz with high content of harmonics.



Low impedance doesn't kill EMI, or prevent noise. A noise current forced into a high impedance circuit will result in a higher power noise than that same noise current forced into low impedance circuit. Power transmission and distribution lines are high power lines, and comparatively any induced noise will likely be very low power and insignificant.
I thought you are very familiar with electromagnetic. radiating noise is from current, the larger the current, the higher the magnetic field DENSITY (B) generated, so the lower the impedance at the termination, the more noise it radiated.


But again, its all meaningless unless you discuss WHAT NOISE you are concerned with and WHERE the noise if from. Noise comes in different forms. Injected, induced, thermal, mother in laws, etc...
That show you never read the post, we were talking about noise from those small SMPS AC to 9V/12V converters so common now a days and motor inductance kick. Read the thread!!!


The discussion had ended, I gave the likely cause of problem into the transmission line( power lines) by SMPS/motor/computer etc. and how it generates noise magnetic field, how a bad designed amp pick up the magnetic field in POST #59 . Also the easiest way to block the EMI from the line by an EMI filter.


In POST #60 , I showed how to design the amp to mitigate noise pick up where I already design and built into my amps. These are well covered in books on Signal Integrity.



Let's just end it here, I don't want to get into argument anymore.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #129 of 131 Old 11-03-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post

The discussion had ended, ....
Let's just end it here, I don't want to get into argument anymore.
Thank you!



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #130 of 131 Old 11-03-2019, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
That show you never read the post, we were talking about noise from those small SMPS AC to 9V/12V converters so common now a days and motor inductance kick. Read the thread!!!


The discussion had ended, I gave the likely cause of problem into the transmission line( power lines) by SMPS/motor/computer etc. and how it generates noise magnetic field, how a bad designed amp pick up the magnetic field in POST #59 . Also the easiest way to block the EMI from the line by an EMI filter.


In POST #60 , I showed how to design the amp to mitigate noise pick up where I already design and built into my amps. These are well covered in books on Signal Integrity.



Let's just end it here, I don't want to get into argument anymore.

Your insertions into my post make no sense, so yes, its a good time to stop this discussion.
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post #131 of 131 Old 11-03-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Your insertions into my post make no sense, so yes, its a good time to stop this discussion.
Kudos, you tried.
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