My imagination, or can a 20 amp circuit make an audible difference? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 31Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
My imagination, or can a 20 amp circuit make an audible difference?

I recently discovered that the three main outlets I use in the basement are all on the same circuit. I was concerned I had too much connected and running at the same time. Some of those included my 2 channel system, a dehumidifier, my elliptical machine, the TV and soundbar, my dog's invisible fence, plus a few other smaller items. All in, there where at least 11 things connected. Luckily, my subwoofer is on a different circuit. I normally listen to the stereo while working out on the elliptical, with the TV on with no sound. In the summer, my dehumidifier will also be running. I decided to have a separate 20 amp line installed.

I connected my stereo rack and the elliptical to the dedicated 20 amp circuit today. It could be my imagination, but as soon as I turned on the stereo, I thought sounded noticeably better. The music sounded much cleaner, more powerful and detailed. Could there be something to this?

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 03:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 3,182
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked: 1438
I think this could actually be the one change in supplying electricity to your equipment that would allow for a noticeable difference.

Increased current availability to your amplifier, and since it’s independent from your other circuits, it should be cleaner power with less noise.

I’m no electrical engineer however.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
Russdawg1 is offline  
post #3 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I think this could actually be the one change in supplying electricity to your equipment that would allow for a noticeable difference.

Increased current availability to your amplifier, and since it’s independent from your other circuits, it should be cleaner power with less noise.

I’m no electrical engineer however.
I know that the dehumidifier draws a lot of electricity, so taking that out of the mix has to help. The elliptical only draws 200 watts, which leaves me a lot of available juice for the Anthem. It is a beefy amp, so I am sure it likes it.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 04:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Switch it back and listen to verify. Normally I would say no......BUT you really have a lot of stuffs hanging on the outlet!!!!

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
alan0354 is offline  
post #5 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 04:05 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 19,523
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2438 Post(s)
Liked: 2279
If you're not tripping breakers... no problem.
If you perceive that having other devices on the same circuit as your stereo causes a problem, run a dedicated "stereo only" circuit.
And if you are happy with the new electrical setup, enjoy.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein

Last edited by Ratman; 10-26-2019 at 04:09 PM.
Ratman is online now  
post #6 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Switch it back and listen to verify. Normally I would say no......BUT you really have a lot of stuffs hanging on the outlet!!!!
Maybe it was just a good recording, but it sounded exceptional today. On the other hand, with 11 sources drawing on a 15 amp circuit, I May have been starving the amp?

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
post #7 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 09:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thehun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: KALIZUELA
Posts: 9,808
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1184 Post(s)
Liked: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
Maybe it was just a good recording, but it sounded exceptional today. On the other hand, with 11 sources drawing on a 15 amp circuit, I May have been starving the amp?
at normal listening level? do you have huge floor standing speakers that have low impedance especially in the bass regions and it's sensitivity is very low? what kind of amp?

De sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine!

Attention, don't read my posts if you're a snowflake or easily offended.

The Hun
thehun is offline  
post #8 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 10:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tenthplanet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Mexico, South of Oregon, West of desert
Posts: 6,481
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2256 Post(s)
Liked: 3524
There can be two things going on, having a lot of devices can be putting noise in the the electrical circuits. Usually not a problem for a couple of devices, add a bunch it can be cumulative. The other thing is your amp benefits from being able to draw from a dedicated circuit. A lot of people with high powered amps do put in dedicated circuits. Line noise is a known issue, and it's effects can be subtle,but some people pickup on it more than others. Some times it's only a couple devices causing problems, some things have very cheaply done power supplies these days.
alan0354 likes this.

"Espresso is like tequila, when in doubt apply more shots."
tenthplanet is offline  
post #9 of 131 Old 10-26-2019, 11:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
There can be two things going on, having a lot of devices can be putting noise in the the electrical circuits. Usually not a problem for a couple of devices, add a bunch it can be cumulative. The other thing is your amp benefits from being able to draw from a dedicated circuit. A lot of people with high powered amps do put in dedicated circuits. Line noise is a known issue, and it's effects can be subtle,but some people pickup on it more than others. Some times it's only a couple devices causing problems, some things have very cheaply done power supplies these days.

I was thinking about that also. Anything with motor, or electronics can generate noise into the AC line. The one concern is the dog fense, it must ultrasonic, that might introduce noise into the power line. If that's the case, an EMI filter might help. Something like this


https://www.amazon.com/Furman-SS6B-P...153720&sr=8-17


Now, I did not research into this, just the first one I saw.


BUT, I would still do some experiment, like reverse to the former configuration to see whether the sound actually degraded. Then remove each device on the line one by one and see anyone is the problem. Don't rule out the ears hear differently from day to day. There are days nothing sound right to me also.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 10-26-2019 at 11:30 PM.
alan0354 is offline  
post #10 of 131 Old 10-27-2019, 04:51 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 19,523
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2438 Post(s)
Liked: 2279
If there is/was EMI/RFI, ground loop that would present itself as audible noise. Eliminating the offending device(s) will stop the noise.
But, this in reality would not make the amp "sound better" because it has more available power.
DreamWarrior likes this.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is online now  
post #11 of 131 Old 10-27-2019, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
at normal listening level? do you have huge floor standing speakers that have low impedance especially in the bass regions and it's sensitivity is very low? what kind of amp?
Anthem 225 amp with Monitor Audio Silver speakers. I don't listen at extreme levels, but a little higher than normal. Yesterday, I thought it sounded a little louder at the normal volume setting I use.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
post #12 of 131 Old 10-27-2019, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I was thinking about that also. Anything with motor, or electronics can generate noise into the AC line. The one concern is the dog fense, it must ultrasonic, that might introduce noise into the power line. If that's the case, an EMI filter might help. Something like this


https://www.amazon.com/Furman-SS6B-P...153720&sr=8-17


Now, I did not research into this, just the first one I saw.


BUT, I would still do some experiment, like reverse to the former configuration to see whether the sound actually degraded. Then remove each device on the line one by one and see anyone is the problem. Don't rule out the ears hear differently from day to day. There are days nothing sound right to me also.
I use a Panamax MR 4300 in the rack. I did notice that the 20 amp connection was registering 122-123 volts on the Panamax display. I didn't pay a lot of attention, but it seems it was normally 119 or less on the 15 amp circuit. I know it tended to fluctuate a bit on the 15 amp line.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_299MR4...ax-MR4300.html

Either way, I am good, now that I have the dedicated 20 amp line. The new line eliminates the potential overload. I just thought the stereo system sounded better than usual yesterday and looked for opinions on whether it could be real or not. I probably will switch it back to the 15 amp line, just to see if I can tell a difference, but long term, it is staying on the 20 amp circuit. Thanks everyone.
tenthplanet likes this.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006

Last edited by raceredmustang; 10-27-2019 at 05:50 AM.
raceredmustang is offline  
post #13 of 131 Old 10-27-2019, 11:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
I use a Panamax MR 4300 in the rack. I did notice that the 20 amp connection was registering 122-123 volts on the Panamax display. I didn't pay a lot of attention, but it seems it was normally 119 or less on the 15 amp circuit. I know it tended to fluctuate a bit on the 15 amp line.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_299MR4...ax-MR4300.html

Either way, I am good, now that I have the dedicated 20 amp line. The new line eliminates the potential overload. I just thought the stereo system sounded better than usual yesterday and looked for opinions on whether it could be real or not. I probably will switch it back to the 15 amp line, just to see if I can tell a difference, but long term, it is staying on the 20 amp circuit. Thanks everyone.

You got the Rolls Royce of the power conditioner!!! That will do it for noise. As Long you have a dedicated line, it doesn't matter it's 15 or 20A, voltage will always fluctuate a little not even of your doing. Remember other people also use the main line. Those slow variation is not going to affect the sound. I think you are good.


I personally do not believe there's any magic on power line, just make sure it's enough ( 15A should be enough just to power your system). You don't need to go fancy on the power line. You have the Rolls Royce of power conditioner. You are good.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
alan0354 is offline  
post #14 of 131 Old 10-27-2019, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You got the Rolls Royce of the power conditioner!!! That will do it for noise. As Long you have a dedicated line, it doesn't matter it's 15 or 20A, voltage will always fluctuate a little not even of your doing. Remember other people also use the main line. Those slow variation is not going to affect the sound. I think you are good.


I personally do not believe there's any magic on power line, just make sure it's enough ( 15A should be enough just to power your system). You don't need to go fancy on the power line. You have the Rolls Royce of power conditioner. You are good.
Thanks alan0354. I really enjoy listening to my music and watching TV without sound while working out. I don't think I would work out as often and as long without it. I'm glad I ran the extra circuit, to seperate the load somewhat.

Best Buy was running Panamax 50% off a few weeks ago. I should have picked one up fo my HT, but didn't. They have a habit of repeating sales. If they do, I will jump on one.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
post #15 of 131 Old 10-27-2019, 05:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,344
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1809 Post(s)
Liked: 1504
Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
It could be my imagination
Yes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
Could there be something to this?
No.
m. zillch likes this.

“You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.” Chuck Palahniuk
A9X-308 is offline  
post #16 of 131 Old 10-27-2019, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Yes.



No.
Based on the thread title, I am prone to agree. A better question would be whether a dedicated circuit could make an audible difference. Given the fact that there were so many electronics drawing on the old 15amp circuit, I think there could be some merit to the idea.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006

Last edited by raceredmustang; 10-27-2019 at 08:43 PM.
raceredmustang is offline  
post #17 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 03:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,784
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 817 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
Based on the thread title, I am prone to agree. A better question would be whether a dedicated circuit could make an audible difference. Given the fact that there were so many electronics drawing on the old 15amp circuit, I think there could be some merit to the idea.
In reality you would have to measure the actual current draw on that 15A circuit when you have normal operation. You may be surprised how little it is.
A Kill-A-Watt meter would be good to use.
m. zillch likes this.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #18 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
In reality you would have to measure the actual current draw on that 15A circuit when you have normal operation. You may be surprised how little it is.
A Kill-A-Watt meter would be good to use.
The dehumidifier was the biggest draw, followed by the Anthem integrated. My elliptical has a motorized ramp that uses some juice when elevating. Not sure about the Invisible fence. The other 8-9 attached components are probably a light load, but with everything on at one time, it adds up. Either way, I am glad I ran the extra circuit. If nothing else, I have piece of mind that I am not overloading anything. Did my 2 channel system benefit audibly? Probably not. It just sounds really good to me right now.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
post #19 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 19,523
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2438 Post(s)
Liked: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
Either way, I am glad I ran the extra circuit.
Money well spent for piece (sic) of mind.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is online now  
post #20 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 04:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DreamWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dirty South Jersey
Posts: 2,279
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
Based on the thread title, I am prone to agree. A better question would be whether a dedicated circuit could make an audible difference. Given the fact that there were so many electronics drawing on the old 15amp circuit, I think there could be some merit to the idea.
A dedicated circuit can make an audible difference if:

a) the audible difference is that the sound continues rather than the breaker tripping -- no sound vs. sound; that's a pretty big difference, lol.

b) there existed devices on the former circuit that induced noise which was impacting the audio equipment on the breaker. Even then, just moving them to another breaker may not be enough; but, maybe moving them to a breaker on the opposite phase helps.

Take a look inside your electrical box to see why the above would hold -- all the breakers on the same phase are coupled to the same panel bus. Do you think moving it from one spot on the bus to another does anything audible? That's like saying plugging it into a different electrical outlet on the same breaker could help (replace breaker with bus and, other than the current limiting by the breaker, it's the same thing).

edit: also, I'd say if it demonstrably and measurably changed the response, I'd hire an electrician to see what's going on with your wiring. You may have a fire-hazard on your hands.
TheKrell likes this.
DreamWarrior is offline  
post #21 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 05:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
TheKrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 603
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I used to blast away with 2 Carver M400's in bridge mode (one on each channel) and kick drums would literally dim the lights. Did you observe anything like that?
TheKrell is offline  
post #22 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 06:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,344
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1809 Post(s)
Liked: 1504
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
In reality you would have to measure the actual current draw on that 15A circuit when you have normal operation. You may be surprised how little it is.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
A Kill-A-Watt meter would be good to use.
They're not particularly accurate in reading haversines.

“You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.” Chuck Palahniuk
A9X-308 is offline  
post #23 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 07:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
It is NOT the amount of current drawn, it's what noise introduce into the line by other circuits that plug into the same line that might be a problem. I would not say one way or the other, best is to experiment to rule out whether it's human ear, then disconnect one by one to see whether anyone makes a difference.

It is not correct to either say yes or no, have to try. A lot of those small plug in power converters are DC to DC converter that throw a lot of noise around 40KHz, that gets into the line and can modulate into the audio signal and might change the sound a little. Particular the dog invisible fence that run on ultrasonic frequency. This can down mixed and affect the audio frequency.

Never say never one way or the other, try and see.......Or if the power conditioner and dedicated line sounds better, move on!!!

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
alan0354 is offline  
post #24 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKrell View Post
I used to blast away with 2 Carver M400's in bridge mode (one on each channel) and kick drums would literally dim the lights. Did you observe anything like that?
Nothing like that. Just the clunk sound the Anthem make when I hit the power button tells me it is pulling some power.

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
post #25 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
raceredmustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
It is NOT the amount of current drawn, it's what noise introduce into the line by other circuits that plug into the same line that might be a problem. I would not say one way or the other, best is to experiment to rule out whether it's human ear, then disconnect one by one to see whether anyone makes a difference.

It is not correct to either say yes or no, have to try. A lot of those small plug in power converters are DC to DC converter that throw a lot of noise around 40KHz, that gets into the line and can modulate into the audio signal and might change the sound a little. Particular the dog invisible fence that run on ultrasonic frequency. This can down mixed and affect the audio frequency.

Never say never one way or the other, try and see.......Or if the power conditioner and dedicated line sounds better, move on!!!
Thanks all. No need for me to experiment. My amp is on the dedicated circuit, and it is staying there. With all the other things plugged into the old line, chances were that one or more may have introduced some noise. It sounds good and I don't have to worry about it. Peace of mind for less than $100 to have the circuit run. 😊

2 channel : Anthem Integrated 225, Bluesound Node 2i, Monitor Audio Silver 8, PSA S1500, Marantz SA8005,
HT: Yamaha RX-A1060, Klipsch RP-260, Polk RTIA1 rears, RP-450C, PSA V1500, Onkyo C-S5VL
Office: Yamaha A-S701, Bluesound Node 2, Monitor Audio Silver 2, SVS SB12-NSD, Marantz CD6006
raceredmustang is offline  
post #26 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 08:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by raceredmustang View Post
Thanks all. No need for me to experiment. My amp is on the dedicated circuit, and it is staying there. With all the other things plugged into the old line, chances were that one or more may have introduced some noise. It sounds good and I don't have to worry about it. Peace of mind for less than $100 to have the circuit run. 😊

That's what I said too, if you are happy, we( say I am) are happy. Some times, it's best to just be happy!!!
Dark Matter likes this.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
alan0354 is offline  
post #27 of 131 Old 10-28-2019, 11:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 10,932
Mentioned: 239 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3831 Post(s)
Liked: 4333
A dedicated line will have less noise for sure because nothing else is sharing the same hot, neutral or ground line, it has the full 15/20A all to itself.
Not just more current, but less chance of voltage-sag (which is just as important.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You got the Rolls Royce of the power conditioner!!!
I wouldn't call that Panamax a Rolls Royce. It's mostly air inside.



It has "maybe" $50 worth of actual filtering inside...
https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...444-ND/1638849
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...ds=%09F7758-ND
https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...031-ND/5405938

If you want an actual Rolls Royce power conditioner, this would definitely be on the buy/evaluation list:
60000watts 3-phase, and costs more than some cars do...
https://www.somersetpowersystems.com...-9e-60kva-ups/


You don't even need to spent that much to out-class that panamax, any of these actual Lambo's will do a better job.
https://www.amazon.com/APC-1000VA-Sm...ZCK/ref=sr_1_1

https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-OL...dp/B009ACPD3I/

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...urge-protector

In fact, looks like that APC H15 UPS (and all other such MOV-based "protectors") had a bad hair day when it comes to ACTUALLY protecting the load!

I have about 7 SurgeX's in my house. It's the only brand I trust as far as actual surge protection goes.

Tom's hardware ripped one to pieces and verified its guts and functionality.
https://www.tomshardware.com/picture...tear-down.html
They also ripped open a Tripp Lite IsoBar
https://www.tomshardware.com/picture...tear-down.html

Both an interesting 4-5 page read...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	pana.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	84.6 KB
ID:	2633494  

Last edited by BassThatHz; 10-28-2019 at 11:07 PM.
BassThatHz is online now  
post #28 of 131 Old 10-29-2019, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DreamWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dirty South Jersey
Posts: 2,279
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
A dedicated line will have less noise for sure because nothing else is sharing the same hot, neutral or ground line, it has the full 15/20A all to itself.
Not just more current, but less chance of voltage-sag (which is just as important.)
*snip*
But...everything on the same phase is sharing the same hot and neutral and everything in the box is sharing the same earth ground...so....ummmm....

As for voltage-sag, that's what caps are for...if the power supply doesn't have enough, buy something that does.
Ratman and CharlesJ like this.
DreamWarrior is offline  
post #29 of 131 Old 10-29-2019, 02:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
But...everything on the same phase is sharing the same hot and neutral and everything in the box is sharing the same earth ground...so....ummmm....

As for voltage-sag, that's what caps are for...if the power supply doesn't have enough, buy something that does.

You forgot the wire inductance. Noise inject on the lines sharing the same phase and neutral, BUT if the noise is on another outlet, the line is longer from the system. The inductance of the wire can serve as inductor and attenuate the high frequency spike. If the noise is on the same outlet, less attenuation of the noise and more inject into the system.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
alan0354 is offline  
post #30 of 131 Old 10-29-2019, 02:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 19,523
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2438 Post(s)
Liked: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You forgot the wire inductance. Noise inject on the lines sharing the same phase and neutral, BUT if the noise is on another outlet, the line is longer from the system. The inductance of the wire can serve as inductor and attenuate the high frequency spike. If the noise is on the same outlet, less attenuation of the noise and more inject into the system.

natchie and JohnnyWilkinson like this.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2-Channel Audio

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off