New or used integrated amp suggestions please - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 11-04-2019, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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New or used integrated amp suggestions please

My other broker with whom I work with is getting a system for his young adult son. This is the same guy that I worked with in the audio store 40 - 50 years ago and he's the one who was able to find and get all the foreign pressings that I liked so well back then.

He's looking for a modestly price integrated amp with decent phono stage if possible. Thought of the Parasound Hint 6, Rotel 1592 or even Outlaw 2160.

He'll be using Magnepan LRS so a pretty strong amp is need although he claims not to listen very loudly. I like to see a doubling of power from 8 ohm to 4 ohm although not all manufactures will rate at 4 ohms

Beside the Rotel and Parasound, what else should I suggest he look at.

True, I should know this, but I'm just fried from all these 16 - 18 hours days lately. I guess the light at the end of the tunnel is that I could stop at the end of January and take the rest of the year off. I'm not going to do that because you get stale, but I don't like a big tax bill.

What am I missing here in 2 channel modestly priced integrateds?
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post #2 of 27 Old 11-04-2019, 07:14 PM
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Glad to see you back here.

The fellow will need to ponder whether he wants digital inputs, streaming capability, and/or a phono input. The usual suspects come to mind, such as those you cited, plus Yamaha, Cambridge, NAD, and Marantz. I have not heard the Outlaw stereo receiver, but it seems like a bargain with its many features and potent amplification. It even has preouts in the unlikely event a more powerful amp is needed later. Links to a pair of test reports:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...eceiver-review

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...tereo-receiver

Note that Stereophile's Herb Reichert used Magnepan .7s in his review and recommended the combination, so one would expect the Outlaw would work well with the LRS loudspeakers, too.

This link will provide some choices (there is Crutchfield as well):

https://www.musicdirect.com/equipmen...oducts&c2=grid

Music room: Cary SLI-80 tube integrated amplifier, McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier, Quad 99 preamp, Quad 909 power amp, Acoustic Research AR9 loudspeakers, Yamaha CD-N500 CD player, Teac UD-503 DSD DAC, Phase Linear 8000II linear-tracking turntable.
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post #3 of 27 Old 11-04-2019, 07:36 PM
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Rogue Audio Sphinx (V2) Great sound. Plenty of power. Great phono stage and headphone amp too.
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post #4 of 27 Old 11-04-2019, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alex F. View Post
Glad to see you back here.

The fellow will need to ponder whether he wants digital inputs, streaming capability, and/or a phono input. The usual suspects come to mind, such as those you cited, plus Yamaha, Cambridge, NAD, and Marantz. I have not heard the Outlaw stereo receiver, but it seems like a bargain with its many features and potent amplification. It even has preouts in the unlikely event a more powerful amp is needed later. Links to a pair of test reports:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...eceiver-review

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...tereo-receiver

Note that Stereophile's Herb Reichert used Magnepan .7s in his review and recommended the combination, so one would expect the Outlaw would work well with the LRS loudspeakers, too.

This link will provide some choices (there is Crutchfield as well):

https://www.musicdirect.com/equipmen...oducts&c2=grid
I've never left, but just had an opportunity due to a referral to do a bunch of deals for one person in addition to my other stuff and am just jammed, but it will be worth it. Now if I could just stop falling asleep at my desk.

He wanted a really good basic integrated. He'd like remote, phono, etc., but he'll get there with addons if needed. Outlaw was the one that sorta had most of it.
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post #5 of 27 Old 11-04-2019, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bubba_Buoy View Post
Rogue Audio Sphinx (V2) Great sound. Plenty of power. Great phono stage and headphone amp too.
Ok, Okay, there's one I hadn't thought of. Thanks
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post #6 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 03:10 AM
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I would buy used. Hell, even for high end amps, I would buy used as I can get the biggest bang out of the buck.


I would buy separate and spend good money on a good used power amp as the old ones are every bit as good as the new ones for cheap.

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post #7 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 06:37 AM
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The Yamaha A-S 1100 Integrated would be a good choice.
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post #8 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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The Yamaha A-S 1100 Integrated would be a good choice.
We were looking at the AS701 and AS801. AS1100 is above his budget for a starter system for his office.

I suggested the Accessories for Less site as they seems to have good deals on what's likely open box product.
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post #9 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I would buy used. Hell, even for high end amps, I would buy used as I can get the biggest bang out of the buck.


I would buy separate and spend good money on a good used power amp as the old ones are every bit as good as the new ones for cheap.
Looking at the Yamaha 701 and 801 on the Accessories for Less site and also used on Audiogon. Maggie LRSs aren't quite as bad to drive as some think in a lil smaller room and nearfield.
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post #10 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Looking at the Yamaha 701 and 801 on the Accessories for Less site and also used on Audiogon. Maggie LRSs aren't quite as bad to drive as some think in a lil smaller room and nearfield.
I would check out the Music Room for some used integrated's. Good choices from $600-about $1100. Some Krells at the higher end.
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post #11 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I would check out the Music Room for some used integrated's. Good choices from $600-about $1100. Some Krells at the higher end.
Never heard of these folks before. Passed it on to my friend. Thanks
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post #12 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
My other broker with whom I work with is getting a system for his young adult son. This is the same guy that I worked with in the audio store 40 - 50 years ago and he's the one who was able to find and get all the foreign pressings that I liked so well back then.

He's looking for a modestly price integrated amp with decent phono stage if possible. Thought of the Parasound Hint 6, Rotel 1592 or even Outlaw 2160.

He'll be using Magnepan LRS so a pretty strong amp is need although he claims not to listen very loudly. I like to see a doubling of power from 8 ohm to 4 ohm although not all manufactures will rate at 4 ohms

Beside the Rotel and Parasound, what else should I suggest he look at.

True, I should know this, but I'm just fried from all these 16 - 18 hours days lately. I guess the light at the end of the tunnel is that I could stop at the end of January and take the rest of the year off. I'm not going to do that because you get stale, but I don't like a big tax bill.

What am I missing here in 2 channel modestly priced integrateds?

All below are stable at 4Ω's or less and will do a great job with the Maggie LRS'.


Rega Brio
http://www.rega.co.uk/brio-2017.html
https://www.musicdirect.com/integrat...ated-amplifier

Rega Elex-R
https://www.musicdirect.com/integrat...ated-amplifier

NAD - C 316BEE v2
https://www.musicdirect.com/integrat...ated-Amplifier

NAD - C 368
https://www.musicdirect.com/integrat...ated-amplifier

NAD - C 388
https://www.musicdirect.com/integrat...Integrated-Amp


PEACHTREE Audio - Nova 150
https://www.musicdirect.com/integrat...ated-amplifier
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post #13 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Guttenburg's LRS review, he didn't like the goNADs. The others I hadn't thought of. I'm getting out of touch again.
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post #14 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 11:09 AM
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I own the Outlaw RR2160, I like it. The phono stage sounds good. I use MM.

Look for any Outlaw sales that are coming up or even B-Stock.
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Save your money.
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post #15 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Looking at the Yamaha 701 and 801 on the Accessories for Less site and also used on Audiogon. Maggie LRSs aren't quite as bad to drive as some think in a lil smaller room and nearfield.
Yes, Maggie is not that hard to drive, but it's very inefficient. I tried it on my amp, my amp felt a little too low power for the Maggie. I assume you are looking for class AB amps, this mean Maggie is going to force the amp out of class A region. That's when a hard biasd class AB amp will have an edge in sound even though Maggie is not that hard to drive.


In another words, you likely benefit from a class AB amp with a bigger class A region......Meaning an amp that runs hotter and have bigger heatsink......higher end.

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Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #16 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Guttenburg's LRS review, he didn't like the goNADs. The others I hadn't thought of. I'm getting out of touch again.

That's ok in my book... I don't think too much of Guttenburg's reviews either.

Certainly I would put NAD in front of Marantz/Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo/Pioneer with regards to integrated offerings.

My choice would be Naim, Rega, or maybe a JOLIDA Fusion 3502S if you're into tubes at a low entry price.

A friend likes my Apogee's and since they are no longer made, he picked up a pair of the Maggie LRS. We paired them with the Jolida and he's quite happy; a nice setup for under $2K. The Maggie's aren't that hard to drive.
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post #17 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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That's ok in my book... I don't think too much of Guttenburg's reviews either.

Certainly I would put NAD in front of Marantz/Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo/Pioneer with regards to integrated offerings.

My choice would be Naim, Rega, or maybe a JOLIDA Fusion 3502S if you're into tubes at a low entry price.

A friend likes my Apogee's and since they are no longer made, he picked up a pair of the Maggie LRS. We paired them with the Jolida and he's quite happy; a nice setup for under $2K. The Maggie's aren't that hard to drive.
Jolida is another one that I had forgotten about. Thanks
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post #18 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 01:40 PM
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Jolida is another one that I had forgotten about. Thanks
My friend has both Maggie and Jolida, Jolida not enough according to him. Even if you use 6550, it's very marginal. My amp is [email protected], I had to crank to 3/4 on the knob ( of cause it's not linear, but it's loud enough when I set it to 12o'clock with my speaker. It has to be 2 o'clock for Maggie) to even get enough volume to test. Maggie is just not efficient, big difference from my JM Lab.

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Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #19 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 04:10 PM
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Wow, those Jolida amps must be good!!! They raise the price, it used to be about $1000, now it's up to like over $1200 minimum. And there's only 2 used on ebay.


This is a 100W used, but it's local pickup only:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jolida-JD-1...IAAOSwK9ZcJ-p8


This one should do it.

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Last edited by alan0354; 11-05-2019 at 04:15 PM.
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post #20 of 27 Old 11-05-2019, 04:38 PM
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To further complicate choices, Audio Advisor has Creek, Musical Fidelity, and Vincent integrated amplifiers. Note that the latter two do not have balance controls (I find them useful). Here is the Creek:

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinf...number=CKEV50A
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Music room: Cary SLI-80 tube integrated amplifier, McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier, Quad 99 preamp, Quad 909 power amp, Acoustic Research AR9 loudspeakers, Yamaha CD-N500 CD player, Teac UD-503 DSD DAC, Phase Linear 8000II linear-tracking turntable.
Theater room: Panasonic 65S60 plasma television; Yamaha RX-A2020 (preamp section); Adcom GFA-5503 and GFA-5400 amplifiers; Polk LSi25, LSiC, and LSiF/X loudspeaker system; Velodyne FSR-18 servo-subwoofer.
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post #21 of 27 Old 11-06-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Class A View Post
I would check out the Music Room for some used integrated's. Good choices from $600-about $1100. Some Krells at the higher end.
Best I not go back on that site, very tempting.
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I love this HD stuff!
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post #22 of 27 Old 11-07-2019, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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My friend has both Maggie and Jolida, Jolida not enough according to him. Even if you use 6550, it's very marginal. My amp is [email protected], I had to crank to 3/4 on the knob ( of cause it's not linear, but it's loud enough when I set it to 12o'clock with my speaker. It has to be 2 o'clock for Maggie) to even get enough volume to test. Maggie is just not efficient, big difference from my JM Lab.
So you used your amp at your friends or he you had the speakers at your house? Do you know which Maggies?

It's true though, my Fartin Logans are far far more efficient than my maggies, but still more difficult to drive. The maggies are fine for my use and get loud enough give the little amp that I use to drive them. In every other way outside of efficiency they're a big pleasure to listen to.
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post #23 of 27 Old 11-07-2019, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
So you used your amp at your friends or he you had the speakers at your house? Do you know which Maggies?

It's true though, my Fartin Logans are far far more efficient than my maggies, but still more difficult to drive. The maggies are fine for my use and get loud enough give the little amp that I use to drive them. In every other way outside of efficiency they're a big pleasure to listen to.

I don't know his model, it's a small one like yours. He brought it over to my place to try. It's an older model, I know he has not bought any speakers for at least 10 years. I think there was something wrong with his speakers, there's no highs.


Don't get me wrong, It's loud enough with my amps, it just need to be cranked up high. He claimed his Jolida is not strong enough, he uses another pair of speakers with his Jolida. I don't know the detail, I just repeat what he said. His Jolida uses EL34, so if you get one with 6550, it will be more powerful.


He promised to bring his Jolida over next time, I can't wait to try the first tube amp ever.

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post #24 of 27 Old 11-07-2019, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I don't know his model, it's a small one like yours. He brought it over to my place to try. It's an older model, I know he has not bought any speakers for at least 10 years. I think there was something wrong with his speakers, there's no highs.

Don't get me wrong, It's loud enough with my amps, it just need to be cranked up high. He claimed his Jolida is not strong enough, he uses another pair of speakers with his Jolida. I don't know the detail, I just repeat what he said. His Jolida uses EL34, so if you get one with 6550, it will be more powerful.

He promised to bring his Jolida over next time, I can't wait to try the first tube amp ever.
Yea, at least the tweeter panel delaminated and possibly his mid and bass too have started too. I'm driving my LRSs with the smallest Yamaha integrated, the AS-301 and its fine.
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post #25 of 27 Old 11-11-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
My other broker with whom I work with is getting a system for his young adult son. This is the same guy that I worked with in the audio store 40 - 50 years ago and he's the one who was able to find and get all the foreign pressings that I liked so well back then.

He's looking for a modestly price integrated amp with decent phono stage if possible. Thought of the Parasound Hint 6, Rotel 1592 or even Outlaw 2160.

He'll be using Magnepan LRS so a pretty strong amp is need although he claims not to listen very loudly. I like to see a doubling of power from 8 ohm to 4 ohm although not all manufactures will rate at 4 ohms

Beside the Rotel and Parasound, what else should I suggest he look at.

True, I should know this, but I'm just fried from all these 16 - 18 hours days lately. I guess the light at the end of the tunnel is that I could stop at the end of January and take the rest of the year off. I'm not going to do that because you get stale, but I don't like a big tax bill.

What am I missing here in 2 channel modestly priced integrateds?
Here are the things you need to consider -

- BUDGET
- FEATURES
- POWER

You're suggested amp run from about $850 up to $3000. That's quite a range.

You need to look at this as finding an amp that serves a specific purpose. But he must first determine what purposes he needs served.

The Parasound has DAC and Full Bass Management with 160w/ch.

The Rotel has DAC and 200w/ch.

The Outlaw has DAC, Bass Management, limited Streaming, and 120w/ch.

Very different amps, very different features. So, what does your friend actually want and need? Does he need a Digital to Analog Converter? Does he need a Phono Input, and if so, MM, MC, or Both (MM=moving magnets the most common, MC=Moving Coil)? Does he want or need Network Streaming which would give him access to a near infinite library of music?

The Magnepan speakers are something of a consideration - Magnepan LRS -

https://www.magnepan.com/model_LRS

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...-loudspeaker-0


More than Raw Amp Power, you more importantly need a Strong Power Supply backing up the Amps. One measure of a Strong Power Supply is the ability to deliver approaching double the power to 4 ohms (relative to 8 ohm power). What this really indicates is the ability to deliver Current. Though not the only measure.


So, let's go back to this -

- BUDGET
- FEATURES
- POWER

First consider Features. What features do you want or need?

Then Budget, what are you willing to spend to get those features?

Then Power, but not so much Amp Power, as any 100w/ch amp would get the job done, but rather Power Supply Power and Current delivery capability. This last aspect is a bit technical and difficult to determine with certainty. The 4 ohm Rated Power relative to the 8 ohm Rated Power is one indicators, but you can also check the specs on the Power Supply. It is not uncommon for Stereo Amps to have double the Power Supply Wattage relative to the Rated Wattage of the Amps. For example, a 200w Amp (100w/ch) might have a 300w Power Supply implying that it has considerable reserve.

Personally, I would start with a list of required features. Today, Network Streaming is pretty highly valued, though typically it requires a monthly subscription fee (~$10/mo, Spotify, etc...) it does give you truly a near infinite library of music at near CD quality. There are actual CD quality Streaming Services that are a bit more (~$20/mo, Tidal, etc...).

Though there are other uses, the typical use for a DAC (digital to analog converter) is to connect the TV to the Stereo for Movie watching.

Obviously if you are into vinyl, you will probably want an Amp with a Phono Equalization Stage built in.

What about more minor things like Tone Controls? Personally I want Tone Controls, though I rarely use them.

Sub-Out, Bass Management, Pre-Amp Out , and so on?

Once you have a list of requirements, you have then narrowed down the list of amp very considerably. Then from that smaller list, you can work out Budget and Power.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #26 of 27 Old 11-11-2019, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I just didn't want to forget any brands that might be applicable.

Strangely, one of his BFDs is that it have a remote.
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post #27 of 27 Old 11-11-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Thanks. I just didn't want to forget any brands that might be applicable.

Strangely, one of his BFDs is that it have a remote.

That's going to limit a lot. Ha ha, every single integrated amp I built has remote volume control!!! I cannot live without that..........So I built them!!!
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Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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