Speaker Cables & Interconnects - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 214Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 03:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 3,182
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1848 Post(s)
Liked: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post



In a very expensive audio setup there are many experts involved for the whole picture to be seen. You have the amps designers, the speakers designers, the cables designers, the sources designers, the master engineers, the recording Co, the producer, the singer, the instruments used to play the music, the talented musicians, the music arrangers, the equipment used to record the music, the format in which the music is recorded and on and on. Its very complex though. And most music recorded these days is just crap, super bright, thin, dry, horrible recordings, like the recording engineers have no ears at all.



It's OK not to have taste though to each its own. This is a free country.

So these $25k cables are going to fix bad recordings now too? Man they get better every year!

Expensive taste does not equal better or good taste.

And thinking you have better taste because you’ve spent more money is quite sad IMO.
Ratman, Muza, CharlesJ and 2 others like this.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
Russdawg1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 03:50 PM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I've worked professionally in this field for decades so I can even cite many of the groundbreaking tests which exposed the many myths being pushed by the industry, since I actually read them right when they were published. The first big article where careful double blind testing on this topic was conducted using what at the time was reference quality gear spelled it out for me:


Read it for yourself.
The article starts on page 46:

"Do audiophile speaker cables make a difference?"

" Conclusions
Our tests were certainly not exhaustive, since only three different cables were compared. Yet the results demonstrate that while Monster Cable and 16-gauge lamp cord are both audibly different from and probably superior to 24-gauge wire, 16-gauge is good enough to be indistinguishable from Monster Cable when playing music. An esoteric cable would have to be substantially better than Monster Cable in order to be demonstrably superior to 16-gauge wire. One of the listeners on the panel ran a quick but controlled listening test of Monster Cable against high-capacitance Mogami Cable (with its “damper” removed) and 8-gauge Levinson HF-lOC twin-lead, both products more costly than Monster Cable. He did no better in distinguishing Monster Cable from the other two than chance would allow.

So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring, comparing, and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster Cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24-gauge wire commonly sold or given away as “speaker cable.” Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic—higher resistance per foot—that made 24-gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires."

Stereo Review changed their name to Sound and Vision magazine c. 2000. They are the largest and oldest audio magazine, at least in the U.S..
They always put deaf people on the blind tests! Take me anywhere in the world I'd tell them a apart within the first 30 sec of the song in most cases. I have told them a part many times! and I have friends who can tell them a part faster than me.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.
isai95 is offline  
post #33 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 03:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
They always put deaf people on the blind tests! Take me anywhere in the world I'd tell them a apart within the first 30 sec of the song in most cases. I have told them a part many times! and I have friends who can tell them a part faster than me.
So you are suggesting they, the largest audio magazine in the US both back then and now, purposefully used people who were hard of hearing? What evidence do you have to make that accusation that they committed what in my opinion would amount to fraud?
m. zillch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 04:00 PM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
So these $25k cables are going to fix bad recordings now too? Man they get better every year!
Actually a bad recording may even sound worse because it will reveal all the crap in the bad recording that you cannot hear with bad speakers cables.

Quote:
Expensive taste does not equal better or good taste.
There is a lot of fake cables and I believe that, people who claim they have the real thing but that's why you need to listen so they don't fool you.

Quote:
And thinking you have better taste because you’ve spent more money is quite sad IMO.
No cheap cable will sound good though, at least to my standards, to what I'm accustomed to listen to.

Also if you cannot tell a difference, you don't need to pay more, lucky you, I have to have a a better speaker cable, I have auditioned a ton of them also tubes which have lots of different sound properties.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.
isai95 is offline  
post #35 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 04:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Out-Of-Phase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 308
"In a very expensive audio setup there are many experts involved for the whole picture to be seen. You have the amps designers, the speakers designers, the cables designers, the sources designers"

You forgot the marketing designers.

Save your money.
Out-Of-Phase is offline  
post #36 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 04:19 PM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
So you are suggesting they, the largest audio magazine in the US both back then and now, purposefully used people who were hard of hearing? What evidence do you have to make that accusation that they committed what in my opinion would amount to fraud?
Magazines get paid to say anything back then and now.
Remember they told us on 1980 that the CD was the ultimate high end recording format for ever. We now know that there was a lie. Nothing has replaced the LP or the R2R tape in terms of high end quality of sound.

The analog signal is a constant signal the transistor signal is an open and close signal that just guesses what is in the recording!

No digital recording sounds like a good mastered LP, nor a 24/96 recording, nor MAQ file, no SACD, no DSD file or any other digital bright, thin, and loud crap.
Do you want more evidence? What about pro-tools? Digital people killed the real good musicians, the real drumers, the real pianists, violin players, the real background vocalists, etc.
Now days any moron with a PC or MAC computer makes music, without even playing a maraca or shaker. No talent at all.
josh6113 likes this.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.

Last edited by isai95; 11-23-2019 at 04:27 PM.
isai95 is offline  
post #37 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 04:21 PM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-Of-Phase View Post
"In a very expensive audio setup there are many experts involved for the whole picture to be seen. You have the amps designers, the speakers designers, the cables designers, the sources designers"

You forgot the marketing designers.
Exactly! The ones who will tell the world to buy your crap ha, ha, ha.
And the worse of all, you pay them 1/2 million dollars and you don't sell a copy of your album.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.
isai95 is offline  
post #38 of 349 Old 11-23-2019, 05:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
Magazines get paid to say anything back then and now.
So maybe in order to boost sales the "evil lamp cord industry" paid off Stereo Review to hire hard of hearing people for their test?
CharlesJ, CalJake and Out-Of-Phase like this.
m. zillch is offline  
post #39 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 03:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,784
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 817 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
.... A $150K setup cannot and may not sound the same with a $10 lamp wire compared to a designed speaker wire for that kind of setup, no matter how you slice it.
You know this because?


Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
Amps designers know the specs and can tell you in detail about every spec but that does not mean that they can hear every property of the amp that they design. They relay in other people to do that and they believe them.
They may or may not.

[quote=isai95;58863122]Who in the world would connect their pair of mono amps of $85K XS 300 Pass Labs with a $10 speaker wire? [/QUOTE/
I would. Have not seen real evidence that it makes a hoot of difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
Hypothetically speaking, that would be like buying the $3 million Bugatti Veyron and installing $50 tires because all tires are the same ha, ha, ha, rubber is rubber after all.
Well, that is a silly comparison. Tires can be tested and wires can be credibly tested for audibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
Also, you have to make things look good, the looks are very important regardless of sound quality, who would dress on a nice and very expensive tuxedo and were tennis shoes and go to a very nice party where all the eyes of the world will be judging you? I'd wear the most expensive and nice Italian shoes that go with that expensive and nice tuxedo. Why wearing a $10 shoes from the Salvation Army?
Well, if that judgement is so important to that person, they would not.
But then, I would not build a system for others enjoyment, not in my house.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #40 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 03:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,784
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 817 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
Definitely a $15K ~ $20K speaker cable will not be used on a $2,500 audio setup but on a $120 ~ $150K audio setup, you definitely will see a $15K or more expensive speaker cable. These guys don't connect their speakers to their amps with a lamp wire or Monoprice cables.

And yes, you and anyone with passion for music and discerning ears can hear the differences like sound stage width, depth, layering, detailing, air, treble openness, softening of transients, dynamics, overall damping, articulation, separation of instruments in space, balance of the music presentation, presentation of the lead vocal and lead instrument, tonality, liquidity, texture, imaging, nuances, bigger backgrounds, bass slam, bigger expansion of cymbals, decay, attack, sustain, notes that sound more like real notes of a real piano, a real guitar, a real violin, voices sound more like the real singer and so the list of differences go on and on.

If a $10 cable would reveal all the previous properties of sound mentioned, who in the right mind would pay $20K for a speaker cable to connect their $150K setup?
You really should read that link I posted in post #10 . The person has a super custom, stand alone listening space and gear up the ying yang, costs in the neighborhood of a $million and could not differentiate that $35k cable and a 12 ga cheap cable.

Oh, wait, he had to judge only by his ears without the help of his eyes.
m. zillch likes this.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #41 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 03:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,784
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 817 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
A $50 diamond ring may look to me exactly the same as a $5K or a 50K may look exactly the same as a $500K diamond ring. ...
I seriously doubt it. That $50 diamond ring would be barely visible or not real diamond at all.
You should really come up with better comparative arguments.
NTTD likes this.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #42 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 03:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,784
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 817 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
Magazines get paid to say anything back then and now.
Remember they told us on 1980 that the CD was the ultimate high end recording format for ever. We now know that there was a lie. Nothing has replaced the LP or the R2R tape in terms of high end quality of sound.

The analog signal is a constant signal the transistor signal is an open and close signal that just guesses what is in the recording!

No digital recording sounds like a good mastered LP, nor a 24/96 recording, nor MAQ file, no SACD, no DSD file or any other digital bright, thin, and loud crap.
Do you want more evidence? What about pro-tools? Digital people killed the real good musicians, the real drumers, the real pianists, violin players, the real background vocalists, etc.
Now days any moron with a PC or MAC computer makes music, without even playing a maraca or shaker. No talent at all.
Evidence? So far you have yet to post any credible evidence, just sadly lacking opinions.

Last edited by CharlesJ; 11-24-2019 at 06:05 PM.
CharlesJ is offline  
post #43 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 06:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Alex F.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,413
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 936 Post(s)
Liked: 551
This post is in regard to the Stereo Review test of loudspeaker cables in 1983.

I have never been involved in any loudspeaker cable tests nor have I ever noticed any sonic problems with any of the speaker cables used in my own systems over the years. But do note this important exchange between a reader's letter to Stereo Review and the magazine editor's reply (October 1983 issue, page 10; link below):

"As a serious audiophile for over twenty years and a professional engineer, I found the conclusion that "exotic" speaker cables offer little or no advantage over 16-gauge zip cord to be unsupported by the evidence in Laurence Greenhill's article. The cables used in the controlled listening tests were all of zip-cord configuration. Had the tests included cables with different geometries, significantly different results would have been obtained. As it stands now, the only possible conclusion that can be drawn from your tests is that Monster Cable (and only Monster Cable) is not significantly better than 16-gauge zip cord. Extrapolation of your results to untested cables is scientifically invalid."

The editor's reply: "Yes, that's exactly what we said."

Speaking as a career university science editor, I have pointed out in the past here that deliberate or implied extrapolation of a test to different designs, technologies, products, etc., which were not included in a given test, is scientifically wrong, invalid, and unethical. People in the science community suffer severe consequences for such behavior. Unfortunately there are a few people on the internet who like to use the word science at every opportunity to push a personal agenda, but continue to be serial offenders in this regard, despite having been informed that it is wrong and misleading.

Kudos to Stereo Review for publishing the letter and agreeing with it.


https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/80s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1983-10.pdf
Marc Alexander likes this.

Music room: Cary SLI-80 tube integrated amplifier, McIntosh MA6500 integrated amplifier, Quad 99 preamp, Quad 909 power amp, Acoustic Research AR9 loudspeakers, Yamaha CD-N500 CD player, Teac UD-503 DSD DAC, Phase Linear 8000II linear-tracking turntable.
Theater room: Panasonic 65S60 plasma television; Yamaha RX-A2020 (preamp section); Adcom GFA-5503 and GFA-5400 amplifiers; Polk LSi25, LSiC, and LSiF/X loudspeaker system; Velodyne FSR-18 servo-subwoofer.
Alex F. is offline  
post #44 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 07:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
I have said it and argue this so many times here. I don't give a hoots how much it cost, I don't buy into what material the wires made of, I don't care how nice it look. From pure engineering point of view, speaker cables is as important as the power amp.


I have posted so many times with simple calculations why the speaker cables is important. People here just stuck with the RESISTANCE of the cable which is NOT an issue in the matter. IT's the INDUCTANCE of the cable that is important. I had provided the math to proof it. But no body listen or way over their heads. I built and compared different cables and talked about this, again, nobody has an open mind to read and think about this. Of cause this is NOT a technical forum and it's NOT the place to talk real engineering.


Problem is people keep pulling out "facts" they DON'T understand, too blind to stop and actually learn and verify and keep pulling out the same WRONG resistance of the cable to justify why a small cheap lamp cord is just as good. It's the inductance, I provided a few times the calculation of the inductance of a cable and how it destroy the damping factor......Then AGAIN, people got stuck with calculating damping with RESISTANCE of the cable and got it all wrong.


You people want to talk science, your really......I repeat......really need to stop and LEARN the science. Again, I provided the science, the calculation, and even the link to calculate the loss of a wire. No body care to read and think.


I built speaker cables with the cheapest of the cheap wires and connectors, $30 a pair and got noticeable improvement of sound over 12 gauge Monster cable. I posted how to make it and what to buy on ebay.....................


Speaker cables is as important as the power amp, just not about paying a lot of money buying oxygen free copper, fancy looking cables. It's SCIENCE, it's ENGINEERING. I so wish someone can come over and I'll do the demo to show how much difference............BUT then some here said you did not do the DBT. Just come over. I am open for test and verify......Period.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 11-24-2019 at 07:39 PM.
alan0354 is offline  
post #45 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 07:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Argentina
Posts: 177
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunksleo View Post
How about this ones??

https://www.amazon.com/SVS-Ultra-Spe...QCTR6F49EQ724G

Or do you recommend me another ones??
Nobody??
Trunksleo is online now  
post #46 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 07:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 447
If anyone care to look, this is where I explained about inductance of the cable is the governing factor. It's in post #2 . This is highschool physics, not that hard to follow and understand. I provide the link for calculating the inductance of wires. Just have an open mind instead or reading articles and think that's the truth.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2...an-cables.html


It's only high school physics.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
alan0354 is offline  
post #47 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 08:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunksleo View Post
Nobody??
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2747

Or CL2 which is "designer white" and can legally be run through walls if ever needed but works just fine out of walls:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2817

Fancy and convenient tips but not entirely necessary because there's nothing wrong with using bare wire ends.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21912

All you need is a pair of scissors and a screwdriver to prepare these optional ends yourself.
P.S. I use these right angle bananas: THEY ROCK.

Last edited by m. zillch; 11-24-2019 at 08:12 PM.
m. zillch is offline  
post #48 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 08:41 PM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunksleo View Post
Nobody??
Try this one:
https://www.audioadvice.com/audioque...ble_length-8FT

See a comparison here:

Do not listen to these deaf people here, I don't think they can even tell the sound of a fly from a mosquito.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.
isai95 is offline  
post #49 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 08:50 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
Here's the secret Audioquest doesn't want you to know:

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5540
m. zillch is offline  
post #50 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 08:56 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
m. zillch is offline  
post #51 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 08:57 PM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Evidence? So far you have yet to post any credible evidence, just sadly lacking opinions.
This is not a court of law though! What proof do you need? If you cannot listen to specific details of the sound like I mentioned before (sound stage width, depth, layering, detailing, air, treble openness, softening of transients, dynamics, overall damping, articulation, separation of instruments in space, balance of the music presentation, presentation of the lead vocal and lead instrument, tonality, liquidity, texture, imaging, nuances, bigger backgrounds, bass slam, bigger expansion of cymbals, decay, attack, sustain, etc.) There is nothing else to talk about.

It's fine. This topic has been discussed since the beginning of time. You cannot tell a $10 lamp wire from a $20K cable speaker, I don't care. You simply don't have the ears to discern the differences, but they are there no matter what you think. Be happy, listen to your $10 lamp wire. I agree to disagree.
josh6113 and alan0354 like this.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.
isai95 is offline  
post #52 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 09:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
m. zillch is offline  
post #53 of 349 Old 11-24-2019, 09:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
G-Rex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: New England
Posts: 2,542
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked: 831
Thread after thread, the same anti wire/cable people here challenging the believers. Such highly unusual behavior. I happen to despise camping trailers... that would be like me hanging out on the trailering forum, week after week, month after month, year after year. Time for some self-reflection guys.
NTTD likes this.
G-Rex is offline  
post #54 of 349 Old 11-25-2019, 12:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CharlesJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,784
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 817 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
This is not a court of law though! What proof do you need? If you cannot listen to specific details of the sound like I mentioned before (sound stage width, depth, layering, detailing, air, treble openness, softening of transients, dynamics, overall damping, articulation, separation of instruments in space, balance of the music presentation, presentation of the lead vocal and lead instrument, tonality, liquidity, texture, imaging, nuances, bigger backgrounds, bass slam, bigger expansion of cymbals, decay, attack, sustain, etc.) There is nothing else to talk about.

It's fine. This topic has been discussed since the beginning of time. You cannot tell a $10 lamp wire from a $20K cable speaker, I don't care. You simply don't have the ears to discern the differences, but they are there no matter what you think. Be happy, listen to your $10 lamp wire. I agree to disagree.
How about a credible DBt comparison? All you presented was your opinion that you think you can differentiate. Perhaps your imagination is running wild?


Did you bother to read that link I posted?
CharlesJ is offline  
post #55 of 349 Old 11-25-2019, 06:54 AM
Senior Member
 
AtlantaAllen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunksleo View Post
How about this ones??

https://www.amazon.com/SVS-Ultra-Spe...QCTR6F49EQ724G

Or do you recommend me another ones??

I am not a believer in speaker cables making an audible difference. That being said I bought a pair of these because they looked good and and were reasonably priced. Hooked them up and I heard an audible difference. I think those are really good cables

Sony ES600VW Projector, 110" motorized screen, Yamaha 2060 AVR, Parasound Halo Hint, KEF LS50s, Focal 926 Arias, PS Audio Power Plant, Velodyne 12" Sub-Woofers (2), PSB In Wall Surrounds (4), Music Hall 7 Turntable, Grado Gold, Apple TV, Sonos (6 Zones), , 55" Samsung Q6F, Klipsch Forte IIIs, 75"Sony 940E , Crown Li1500 power amp...330WPC @ 8 ohms
AtlantaAllen is offline  
post #56 of 349 Old 11-25-2019, 08:48 AM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by spec1alk View Post
I am curious what represents the best value for speaker cable and interconnects?
This will be dictated by your own ears and appreciation for beauty of cables design. My advice to you is to audition many different cables in compatibility with your audio setup, price, look, performance, connectors, colors, etc. Once you evaluated them in your home choose the one or ones that you like most according to what you can afford. Many audio dealers would lend you the cables before buying.

Quote:
I just picked up a set of the Monoprice Onix RCA cables. Does this provide pretty good performance for the cost? Or would it be worth spending a bit more to get a much better cable?
Once you try them, you grow into this hobby, little by little, you became an expert on discerning things that you did not know were there all the time. Monoprice uses very cheap materials, you get for what you pay for. No one would sell you a really good built cable for $10. Even the Cardas that I get in bulk to build my self costs me like $200 for a good pair of interconnects.

Quote:
What about speaker cables? Is something like the Monoprice Monolith a good value? Or can I get a much better cable by moving up to $50 or $100?
You may not feel or tell a difference from a $50 to $100 cable that could be the same cable but something from $50 to $500 yes, or from $500 to $2,000, yes you may or may not tell a difference. Again this is evaluated by your own ears nobody else's.

Quote:
I suppose it would help to know how I intend to use the cables, as high end cables have no business on a cheap system.
You are right. High end audio es super expensive, just for the rich. But I find audio to be very affordable compared to other hobbies like motocross, car racing, horse ridding, etc. where you can spend half a million dollar just in a blink of an eye and you risk your life.

Quote:
I currently have some DIY speaker cables (BlueJeans 12 or 14awg wire with some Nakamichi banana plugs).
Going from a Harman Kardon AVR3600 to a pair of Definitive Technology Mythos 1 towers and a Mythos 9 center.
I also have an Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX that is using one of those MP Onix cables listed above.
It's good to learn how to do your own stuff, I do. I do my own acoustic audio panels, connectors, speakers stands, computers, etc.

Quote:
In addition to this, I have been kicking around building a 2-channel listening setup for our living room. Nothing crazy, but will probably use a Raspberry Pi 3B+ w/ HiFi Berry DAC+ Pro to stream local FLAC files (16 and 24-bit files) and possibly Tidal or other streaming services. I would want to pair this with a pair of bookshelf speakers (something like the AudioEngine A5 or MP MM-3). Would like to avoid the need for a Pre-Amp and Amp if possible.
I'm more into a 2-channel audio setup for music only, the home theater is for my daughter, to me HT is just noise. Ha, ha, ha.

Quote:
Based on this usage, where am I likely to find the value sweet spot of performance to cost?

Any recommendations?
I recommend you to start with Audioquest, Cardas, Transparent or whatever is in your local city.
Please tell us what you decided to do and if you auditioned any stuff and what you found out.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.

Last edited by isai95; 11-25-2019 at 08:52 AM.
isai95 is offline  
post #57 of 349 Old 11-25-2019, 09:06 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaAllen View Post
I am not a believer in speaker cables making an audible difference. That being said I bought a pair of these because they looked good and and were reasonably priced. Hooked them up and I heard an audible difference. I think those are really good cables
Interestingly by my read the manufacturer's ad makes no claims regarding superior sound, just high quality parts/construction and very pure signal transfer (the latter nearly all cables provide assuming they meet certain, easy to attain electrical properties).
m. zillch is offline  
post #58 of 349 Old 11-25-2019, 09:08 AM
Member
 
isai95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaAllen View Post
I am not a believer in speaker cables making an audible difference. That being said I bought a pair of these because they looked good and and were reasonably priced. Hooked them up and I heard an audible difference. I think those are really good cables
They look much better than a $10 lamp wire for sure, of course, the more refined the cable is made the more expensive it is. Materials, engineering, handcrafted, looks, colors and more importantly audio performance is what makes them so expensive.
That's why you have the $15K, 20K, 35K, $70K cables and more
I'm sure the guy who burns $70K in a speaker cable really can tell a difference from a $10 lamp wire.
In a million or 3 million audio setup? I guess is equivalent to your $50 cable in your setup.
Really is not that expensive if you think about it.

Jolida Fusion 801 70 watt tube Integrated amp, Nakamichi PA-7 Stasis 200 watt amp, Nakamichi CA-5 preamp, California Audio Labs Alpha DAC & Delta CD Transport, 20 TB PC computer for 24/96 files, Rega Planar 3 Turntable, Sennheiser HD650 headphones, Schiit Valhalla tube headphone amp, Audioquest speaker cables & interconnects, Cardas interconnects and speakers cable and speakers Kimber 4VS cable.
isai95 is offline  
post #59 of 349 Old 11-25-2019, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
spec1alk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by isai95 View Post
It's good to learn how to do your own stuff, I do. I do my own acoustic audio panels, connectors, speakers stands, computers, etc.

I typically do. My speaker wires I bought and ran the cable myself in the walls and then installed the banana plug ends myself. I also make my own RG6 cables and such. I suppose I should look into making my own RCA cables. I just didn't think about that. Will look into it and let you know how it goes.
spec1alk is offline  
post #60 of 349 Old 11-25-2019, 09:15 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,191
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5545 Post(s)
Liked: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaAllen View Post
I am not a believer in speaker cables making an audible difference.
Yet I suspect you are well aware that there are many people who insist they can hear differences. How would you account for that? Is there some mechanism which might make people think they hear things which their ears actually don't?

Last edited by m. zillch; 11-25-2019 at 09:36 AM.
m. zillch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2-Channel Audio

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off