AudioQuest Buys GoldenEar - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 04:17 PM
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Sandy Gross is a genius plain and simple. Polk, Definitive, Golden Ear. Just wow. Building products, building brands, building companies, marketing and then starting over. Takes a special person.
A true entrepreneur and engineer. All these brands could have products that could be the gateway into people graduating into serious audio nirvana. And also each brand has a few products in their lines for uber serious audio snobs looking for extreme value. My BP 7000's are just an unbelievable product. Got to meet him at a local dealer event - very gracious and humble.

Wish him and Golden Ear all the best. Looking forward to the next company and what is next!
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post #32 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post
Sandy Gross is a genius plain and simple. Polk, Definitive, Golden Ear. Just wow. Building products, building brands, building companies, marketing and then starting over. Takes a special person.
A true entrepreneur and engineer. All these brands could have products that could be the gateway into people graduating into serious audio nirvana. And also each brand has a few products in their lines for uber serious audio snobs looking for extreme value. My BP 7000's are just an unbelievable product. Got to meet him at a local dealer event - very gracious and humble.

Wish him and Golden Ear all the best. Looking forward to the next company and what is next!
I absolutely tip my hat to the man, he knows how to make money and grow a brand in a highly competitive business. And yes, he’s also very accessible.
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post #33 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Do we think AudioQuest will insert their cables and cable technology into the internals of the Goldenear speaker line?

As in the cable leads from binding posts to crossover and crossover to drivers?
They better, or else...
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post #34 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 05:50 PM
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I guess I'll register a contrary opinion. I've been happy with their Dragonfly products for the past five years. I'd like to think this is a move away from their smoke-and-mirrors past.

I'm also an author! Gemini Gambit - He's trying to save the world. She's trying to hide from it. When they meet, death is the least of their worries. http://www.amazon.com/Gemini-Gambit-...dp/0986396214/
Its sequel, Dragon's Ark, is also available. Behind the Great Firewall of China, there are secrets people will kill to keep. https://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Ark-G...dp/B01LD5BYV4/
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post #35 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 06:19 PM
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I fell for the snake oil of Audioquest cables years ago when I purchased seven RCA interconnects to connect my Anthem AVM 20 I had at the time to my PVA 7. They lost me when they had arrows on them and were "directional" cables. I see people spend big money on speaker cables and just have to laugh to myself. Even if these cables were better (they aren't), do you think the cable inside your speaker is some special "Audiophile" cable? Do you think the cable in your Pre-Amp or Amp is some special "Audiophile" cable? And the worst is so called "Audiophile" power cords.


The people that buy Audioquest cables (and I have bought some before) would be much better off spending that money on room treatments that actually make their music sound better.


Having not spent a lot of time with Golden Ear speakers, I can't speak definitively but the pair I heard sounded pretty good - maybe not worth the cost, but they were not bad speakers.

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post #36 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 07:32 PM
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I've never bought into hype on any hifi component. And I don't see the need to criticize any of them for marketing hyperbole. It's good business, especially for mass market products. I've not been impressed with Golden Ear speakers when I've heard them at trade shows but that's probably not a fair method of assessment.

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post #37 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 07:40 PM
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post #38 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 07:44 PM
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I've liked the Golden Ears I've listened to; 2, 5, and 7s. But their sound is just not my sound, and they don't do much for me aesthetically. I fault nobody that likes them. I do hope they remain unmolested by any sort of shenanigans. Not saying that's AQ's intent, just hope it stays that way.

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post #39 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by leeshanok View Post
Calling AQ cables or any other cable brand snake oil lends less credibility to the posters without explaining why from empirical experience. Spare me the scientific/engineering theory. Ours ears are what we use to listen and enjoy music and make comparison based on our own observation in our listening environment. I used to be a longtime naysayer until I had the available funds to experiment and decide for myself if the perceived improvement/difference I hear (all else stays the same except the change of cable) was enough to justify paying for them. In some cases, not, in others yes. Value is in the eye of the beholder. However, unless one has unlimited funds, I’m sure we all determine at a certain price range if it is worth to pay more for the incremental improvement or difference, or willing to venture beyond. In my 20 year journey, I’m at the point where changes in cables in my systems have made a marked improvement in sound quality. I will continue to pursue in this area. For the most part, I’m quite content with my components.
Their suregrip banana plugs do make a difference in my system, compared to the generic banana plugs i was using earlier, probably has to do with the better contact and fit the suregrip plugs make with the binding posts. I do not recommend any of their hdmi cables unless you want a prettier looking cable to stare at. Or any digital cable for that matter (doesn't make any difference). However, to generalize and call all audioquest products as 'snake oil' is something i don't agree with.
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post #40 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rysa_105 View Post
Their suregrip banana plugs do make a difference in my system, compared to the generic banana plugs i was using earlier, probably has to do with the better contact and fit the suregrip plugs make with the binding posts. I do not recommend any of their hdmi cables unless you want a prettier looking cable to stare at. Or any digital cable for that matter (doesn't make any difference). However, to generalize and call all audioquest products as 'snake oil' is something i don't agree with.
From my experience, picture quality between HDMI cables will be barely perceptible. It was hard for me to visually notice a difference between Carbon, Vodka, and Mocha (same as Coffee). But for sound quality, I was surprised that the Vodka sounded more dynamic and impactful (bigger and tighter bass) vs the Carbon. It was very noticeable. I had to a/b several times just to make sure. Much less difference between Vodka and Mocha. It may be the 10% silver vs 5% for Carbon. If I didn’t have the Vodka or Mocha to compare, I would have been content with the Carbon.
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post #41 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 08:58 PM
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The only thing GE or Definitive were/are “guilty” of was/is not providing a “- x db” point in their response spec: nothing more or less.

And anyone dense enough to not comprehend the fact that a 14” bookshelf speaker will not have any meaningful response @ 27hz should probably find a new hobby.

Cause surely the former is nowhere near as nauseating as having to read the repetitive “spec drivel” that’s posited as if it hasn’t been known (and posted ad infinitum) for how many decades now?

How clever.

James
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post #42 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
I fell for the snake oil of Audioquest cables years ago when I purchased seven RCA interconnects to connect my Anthem AVM 20 I had at the time to my PVA 7. They lost me when they had arrows on them and were "directional" cables. I see people spend big money on speaker cables and just have to laugh to myself. Even if these cables were better (they aren't), do you think the cable inside your speaker is some special "Audiophile" cable? Do you think the cable in your Pre-Amp or Amp is some special "Audiophile" cable? And the worst is so called "Audiophile" power cords.


The people that buy Audioquest cables (and I have bought some before) would be much better off spending that money on room treatments that actually make their music sound better.


Having not spent a lot of time with Golden Ear speakers, I can't speak definitively but the pair I heard sounded pretty good - maybe not worth the cost, but they were not bad speakers.
I can certainly understand your viewpoint based on your experience and equipment. Long time ago, I owned the AVM20, D2, and DV2 and in my opinion their product line below the DBS units are ok, not great. In a movie environment, with so much going on sound wise, it may be hard for some to detect sound improvement. I was in that camp. In a 2-ch music with their DBS cables vs non-DBS, it would be more noticeable, specially if you have a revealing and transparent system.
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post #43 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 09:16 PM
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" a company that made its name exaggerating bass response specifications "

I dont pay as much attention to specs as I do to how speakers actually sound and I'm very happy with my Triton 2+'s in my 2ch all audio system. There is no lack of real low end ... and I run the sub amp volume at the 1 o'clock position. Much more and the windows start to rattle.

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post #44 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 09:22 PM
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... specially if you have a revealing and transparent system.

I finally have a system like that after 50 years of searching. And guess what, AudioQuest at this level makes a huge difference. Why else do you think they have survived all these years? Just don't buy the top of their line without testing. I auditioned their cables and found their Cinnamon level was just right for my system. You really don't know what you're talking about unless you have a truly revealing system. With the top implementations they make a very easily heard difference.
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post #45 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 09:52 PM
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A few thoughts:

-I've been through a few M&As and the only people that benefitted from this are Sandy and anyone else like her who has ownership shares (or generous golden parachute clauses) that cashed in selling out to Audioquest. Everyone else at Goldenear should look for a new job stat.

-Audioquest is one of the worst liars in A&V, they should go out of bidness (although the fact that they can afford to pay millions to Sandy shows that they are very profitable and solvent and there are a lot of suckers out there), and this will ensure that I will NEVER consider Goldenear in the future (on the other hand, caveat emptor; if people are stupid enough to buy into Audioquest's lies and false marketing, sheep should be shorn and more power to them). Stupid can't be cured, suckers can spend their money however they want, and it doesn't affect me one iota.
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post #46 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 10:03 PM
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Audioquest has always had many, many SKU's in their range... so why not add more?
I do believe they would be absolutely missing a treat by not adding Audioquest cable to the Golden Ear speaker range, then at the same time releasing 'upgrade kits' for older GE speakers.
I'm sure Sound & Vision etc would give the kits raving reviews - both companies spend enough in marketing to ensure the magazines know what side their bread is buttered on. I'm not being cynical, just realistic... it's how the world works.
Leveraging international distribution would make sense too, why have one distro in a country for Audioquest and one for GE when you could have one who would / could handle both. Lower costs in servicing their distributors, easier to enforce their marketing 'story'.


Now - can they grow sales of both brands with significant economic headwinds seen to be sitting on the horizon? That's the question.
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post #47 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
The only thing GE or Definitive were/are “guilty” of was/is not providing a “- x db” point in their response spec: nothing more or less.

And anyone dense enough to not comprehend the fact that a 14” bookshelf speaker will not have any meaningful response @ 27hz should probably find a new hobby.

Cause surely the former is nowhere near as nauseating as having to read the repetitive “spec drivel” that’s posited as if it hasn’t been known (and posted ad infinitum) for how many decades now?

How clever.

James
Having measured Goldenear gear, in some cases it's -20dB or more at the listed spec, or in the case of some of the subs, it's the moment the driver starts moving at all. We're talking -20 or -30 dB. So I can see why maybe you would not want to publish that.

Most people make a hobby out of listening to music, not learning the ins and outs of marketing specs. The extent of exaggeration of marketing specs is not known to the average Joe.

But... Definitive technology has started publishing +/-3 dB specs for its new speakers, so obviously that company had a change of heart. But hey, glad you are open-minded! Some folks here find exaggerated specs to be an unforgivable sin.

You are the clever one, James. Everyone knows that.
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post #48 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by catav View Post
... specially if you have a revealing and transparent system.

I finally have a system like that after 50 years of searching. And guess what, AudioQuest at this level makes a huge difference. Why else do you think they have survived all these years? Just don't buy the top of their line without testing. I auditioned their cables and found their Cinnamon level was just right for my system. You really don't know what you're talking about unless you have a truly revealing system. With the top implementations they make a very easily heard difference.
If only HDMI cables or power cords could make a big difference in fidelity. That would be nice but it's simply not the case. Same for speaker cables, and you only need to run a null test to experience irrefutable proof of that. I can see where with analog interconnects, there are cases where poor shielding could be an issue, where there's room for a super-premium shielded product.

But that's why I specifically mentioned power cords and HDMI cables. People will debate the point to death, but you are never going to see or hear a difference swapping those items out for "high-end" cables.


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post #49 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by leeshanok View Post
From my experience, picture quality between HDMI cables will be barely perceptible. It was hard for me to visually notice a difference between Carbon, Vodka, and Mocha (same as Coffee). But for sound quality, I was surprised that the Vodka sounded more dynamic and impactful (bigger and tighter bass) vs the Carbon. It was very noticeable. I had to a/b several times just to make sure. Much less difference between Vodka and Mocha. It may be the 10% silver vs 5% for Carbon. If I didn’t have the Vodka or Mocha to compare, I would have been content with the Carbon.
Forget experience. It's an irrefutable fact that if an HDMI cable supports the bandwidth of the signal, then you will get 100% of the picture quality regardless of brand or price. I just want to make that totally clear for any other readers. There's no variation in picture quality once an HDMI cable is passing the signal properly.

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post #50 of 421 Old 01-03-2020, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vzphoneman View Post
" a company that made its name exaggerating bass response specifications "

I dont pay as much attention specs as I do to how speakers actually sound and I'm very happy with my Triton 2+'s in my 2ch all audio system. There is no lack of real low end ... and I run the sub amp volume at the 1 o'clock position. Much more and the windows start to rattle.
That's why in multiple posts I mention I own Goldenear gear and find the real-world performance up to par for the price point. That's a separate issue from marketing specs, which I have found there's some folks (a higher percentage here on this site than in general, to be sure) who would like to see the industry begin to provide accurate anechoic specs and state the range they represent (+/-3 dB, etc).
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post #51 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post
A few thoughts:

-I've been through a few M&As and the only people that benefitted from this are Sandy and anyone else like her who has ownership shares (or generous golden parachute clauses) that cashed in selling out to Audioquest. Everyone else at Goldenear should look for a new job stat.

-Audioquest is one of the worst liars in A&V, they should go out of bidness (although the fact that they can afford to pay millions to Sandy shows that they are very profitable and solvent and there are a lot of suckers out there), and this will ensure that I will NEVER consider Goldenear in the future (on the other hand, caveat emptor; if people are stupid enough to buy into Audioquest's lies and false marketing, sheep should be shorn and more power to them). Stupid can't be cured, suckers can spend their money however they want, and it doesn't affect me one iota.
I guess it’s bad for a company to be very profitable.
Not sure why, but seems to affect you emotionally to rant like that.

It baffles me why people get so sensitive about this.

By the way, Sandy is a male.
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post #52 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by leeshanok View Post
I guess it’s bad for a company to be very profitable.
Not sure why, but seems to affect you emotionally to rant like that.

It baffles me why people get so sensitive about this.

By the way, Sandy is a male.
Not sure why, but it affected me physically, not emotionally, specifically in the bowels.

By the way, Sandy is a woman.

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post #53 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by leeshanok View Post
I guess it’s bad for a company to be very profitable.
Not sure why, but seems to affect you emotionally to rant like that.

It baffles me why people get so sensitive about this.

By the way, Sandy is a male.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post
Not sure why, but it affected me physically, not emotionally, specifically in the bowels.

By the way, Sandy is a woman.
Profitability is not the issue. A company could give cables away for free and if it claimed its HDMI cables made the picture look better, or power cord made music sound better, that would still be problematic.

Sandy gross is definitely a guy.
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post #54 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 03:00 AM
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Uh... no. We're not skipping the science today.

I know exactly what a mess the discussion of cables has become on the internet. The debate on what's needed to properly make an audio comparison has gone down countless times and consumed countless hours. Personal preference wins most of the time, so enjoy your preference.

But reality is your testing methodology is subject to well understood biases.

I like your reviews Mark but in this case I have to strongly disagree. Not sure about Audioquest power cables BUT I can assure you the upgraded power cables in my system have improved my sound. Wish it weren't true. You have an open invitation to trek down anytime to hear

Back to the news release. Former owner of Triton 1's. Good speaker. It's a business decision.
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post #55 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 03:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I like your reviews Mark but in this case I have to strongly disagree. Not sure about Audioquest power cables BUT I can assure you the upgraded power cables in my system have improved my sound. Wish it weren't true. You have an open invitation to trek down anytime to hear

Back to the news release. Former owner of Triton 1's. Good speaker. It's a business decision.
Assurances?... well, let's just say the internet is full of assurances. I've been assured of just about anything and everything I can think of and more.

Measurements showing a tangible improvement in some relevant audio parameter after a power cord "upgrade"... now that would be cool.

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post #56 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
The only thing GE or Definitive were/are “guiltyâ€Â of was/is not providing a “- x dbâ€Â point in their response spec: nothing more or less.

And anyone dense enough to not comprehend the fact that a 14â€Â bookshelf speaker will not have any meaningful response @ 27hz should probably find a new hobby.



Cause surely the former is nowhere near as nauseating as having to read the repetitive “spec drivelâ€Â that’️s posited as if it hasn’️t been known (and posted ad infinitum) for how many decades now?

How clever.

James
Having measured Goldenear gear, in some cases it's -20dB or more at the listed spec, or in the case of some of the subs, it's the moment the driver starts moving at all. We're talking -20 or -30 dB. So I can see why maybe you would not want to publish that. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]

Most people make a hobby out of listening to music, not learning the ins and outs of marketing specs. The extent of exaggeration of marketing specs is not known to the average Joe.

But... Definitive technology has started publishing +/-3 dB specs for its new speakers, so obviously that company had a change of heart. But hey, glad you are open-minded! Some folks here find exaggerated specs to be an unforgivable sin.

You are the clever one, James. Everyone knows that. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
I suppose the above is a flaccid attempt at a “comeback”.

Definitive Technology built their reputation on offering some of the best performance-for-the-dollar loudspeakers in the industry (decades) before the ID explosion: not even partly on the fact their frequency response figure did not contain a -x db point. Remember: the “average joe” wasn’t even aware of the former (either the first, second, or fourth time they purchased their speakers).

Supplying a -3db would not have changed a damn thing (anything nearing significance, anyway) but spare them of the rod (or sword) of the “learned”.

Now, that (providing a -3db response point) is EXACTLY what DT does: with no change in their excellent product and popularity.

Come to think of it, both have actually likely ratcheted upward, significantly, since. Go figure.

But the .5% now have their -3db spec. Maybe that “unforgivable sin” (good grief) can be forgiven after all.

Well that’s it. I will take my cleverness back into hiding like the majority here, most of the time, and just enjoy the quality journalism.


James

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Last edited by mastermaybe; 01-04-2020 at 04:40 AM.
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post #57 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 07:35 AM
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Do we think AudioQuest will insert their cables and cable technology into the internals of the Goldenear speaker line?

As in the cable leads from binding posts to crossover and crossover to drivers?
Of course not. You don't need that you only need the upgraded cable to be between the amp and the speaker or between the wall and the amp etc. Everyone knows that

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post #58 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 08:57 AM
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Calling AQ cables or any other cable brand snake oil lends less credibility to the posters without explaining why from empirical experience. Spare me the scientific/engineering theory. Ours ears are what we use to listen and enjoy music and make comparison based on our own observation in our listening environment. I used to be a longtime naysayer until I had the available funds to experiment and decide for myself if the perceived improvement/difference I hear (all else stays the same except the change of cable) was enough to justify paying for them. In some cases, not, in others yes. Value is in the eye of the beholder. However, unless one has unlimited funds, I’m sure we all determine at a certain price range if it is worth to pay more for the incremental improvement or difference, or willing to venture beyond. In my 20 year journey, I’m at the point where changes in cables in my systems have made a marked improvement in sound quality. I will continue to pursue in this area. For the most part, I’m quite content with my components.
Yeah...no... It always amazes me when people decry hard science and actual real life measurements in favor of what has been proven over and over as extremely unreliable, human memory and perception. This is why companies like Monster and AudioQuest exists. There is a reason why bias exists, why the placebo effect exists, why faulty recollections exist. As amazing as the human brain is in how it powers us through our lives day after day, it is also extremely flawed from both perception and memory standpoints; we hear/see/feel non-existent things because we are listening/looking/feeling for something different, we remember wrong things because we want to.

Speaking about the human short term memory, we objectively remember 7 specific items with a plus-minus of 2 for anywhere between 10-30 seconds. Long term memory on the other hand, have been proven to be significantly influenced by biases (sensory and emotional), for example a wrong first impression of someone having an outlier day or the taste of a pizza after previously eating a really bad/good pizza. This is why people fail double blind tests all the time concerning their subjective judgement. Transitioning this discussion to AV, a much more expensive cable didn't make things better, it was just that the previous cable was either defective in some way or you were looking to see or hear something and your brain filled in the blanks.
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post #59 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:11 AM
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When i saw Audioquest in the thread title name, i thought this will eventually devolve into a cables argument. My point in the cables argument isn't about the pricing of the cables, doesn't matter what price tag the cables carry , low or high, but analog interconnects can often result in a difference, i swapped my rca cables that go from my pre pro to my belles aria amp, and theyre not audioquest cables or any 'audiophile priced' cables, i got the 6 ft. pair for around 20 bucks from amazon and they have made a difference over my previous set of rca's, amp sounds cleaner with upper mid and treble range, surely these cables must have better shielding and noise rejection than the previous ones.
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post #60 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:24 AM
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I also came across an instance where swapping a rca cable made it worse with video, i lost my ps3 AV cable (cvbs + audio) and trying to find it on amazon i couldnt find the official sony cable in stock any more, so i took a chance with a generic third party AV cable for 9.99, i thought it would be fine, but when i hooked it i found the video to be worse than what i was used to seeing with sony's own cable, the picture was dimmer to my surprise. another instance where i found that rca cable quality matters.
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