AudioQuest Buys GoldenEar - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rysa_105 View Post
When i saw Audioquest in the thread title name, i thought this will eventually devolve into a cables argument. My point in the cables argument isn't about the pricing of the cables, doesn't matter what price tag the cables carry , low or high, but analog interconnects can often result in a difference, i swapped my rca cables that go from my pre pro to my belles aria amp, and theyre not audioquest cables or any 'audiophile priced' cables, i got the 6 ft. pair for around 20 bucks from amazon and they have made a difference over my previous set of rca's, amp sounds cleaner with upper mid and treble range, surely these cables must have better shielding and noise rejection than the previous ones.
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I also came across an instance where swapping a rca cable made it worse with video, i lost my ps3 AV cable (cvbs + audio) and trying to find it on amazon i couldnt find the official sony cable in stock any more, so i took a chance with a generic third party AV cable for 9.99, i thought it would be fine, but when i hooked it i found the video to be worse than what i was used to seeing with sony's own cable, the picture was dimmer to my surprise. another instance where i found that rca cable quality matters.
Analog interconnects are 100% a category of cables where you'll find real differences in performance due to design and build quality, with shielding being a key factor no doubt if your environment is "noisy" for whatever reason. I try and make a point of including that caveat when I get into a cable discussions. That's why I chose HDMI and power cables for my examples. It's also why I am a proponent of balanced connections for subwoofer outputs.
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post #62 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rysa_105 View Post
When i saw Audioquest in the thread title name, i thought this will eventually devolve into a cables argument. My point in the cables argument isn't about the pricing of the cables, doesn't matter what price tag the cables carry , low or high, but analog interconnects can often result in a difference, i swapped my rca cables that go from my pre pro to my belles aria amp, and theyre not audioquest cables or any 'audiophile priced' cables, i got the 6 ft. pair for around 20 bucks from amazon and they have made a difference over my previous set of rca's, amp sounds cleaner with upper mid and treble range, surely these cables must have better shielding and noise rejection than the previous ones.
Or your previous ones were defective or had become defective in some way, for example oxidation or strands cut from over bending. At the end of the day, two OFC cables with identical gauge and quality will sound the same regardless of brand. Now differences in resistance caused by different materials or levels of purity can cause sound to be perceived differently due to changes in volume, but once you volume correct to match resistance, it goes back to sounding the same.
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post #63 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Profitability is not the issue. A company could give cables away for free and if it claimed its HDMI cables made the picture look better, or power cord made music sound better, that would still be problematic.

Sandy gross is definitely a guy.
Actually, power cords can make a difference, better in the sense of lower noise floor. I tried the AQ storm series power cord and was surprised how good it is compared to stock cord.
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post #64 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, power cords can make a difference, better in the sense of lower noise floor. I tried the AQ storm series power cord and was surprised how good it is compared to stock cord.
Surely you measured this and can show the claimed improvement. There is no mystery when it comes to noise, no need for "I trust my ears" just a plain measurement quantifying the improvement would be great!

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post #65 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by leeshanok View Post
Actually, power cords can make a difference, better in the sense of lower noise floor. I tried the AQ storm series power cord and was surprised how good it is compared to stock cord.
Did you try other stock power cables or other much-cheaper-than-AQ 3rd party power cables before arriving to that conclusion? Not trying to be snarky, just curious about how you quantified your conclusion.
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post #66 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 09:53 AM
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Power cords do not alter the noise and Mark is right that this can be measured, assuming you can trust measurements from (say) a company already caught using fudged data or cooked demos. Snake oil peddlers know that noise is a top concern of many audio enthusiasts so this is also a top lie they use in their marketing.

The placebo effect is real and everyone, without exception, is susceptible to it. Luckily scientists invented the double blind test to get around this issue.

RCA cords in video applications can be sensitive to impedance mismatches in some, but not all gear combinations. It is supposed to be 75 ohm impedance cable but often deviates from this spec significantly. The distance of the run can matter too. A darker picture is a common manifestation.
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post #67 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 10:27 AM
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[QUOTE=imagic;59046244]Surely you measured this and can show the claimed improvement. There is no mystery when it comes to noise, no need for "I trust my ears" just a plain measurement quantifying the improvement would be great! [/QUOTE

So, if there is no mystery to noise, now you want me to have my ears measured and for a machine to quantify the “improvement or difference” I am hearing and correct my brain that it’s sending the wrong message to my ears? Sorry, I trust my ears as the final arbiter.
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post #68 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chenjy9 View Post
Did you try other stock power cables or other much-cheaper-than-AQ 3rd party power cables before arriving to that conclusion? Not trying to be snarky, just curious about how you quantified your conclusion.
Yes, tried various other brands also. Didn’t want to believe their is a perceived improvement, but ears telling me there is. Swapped out several times just to be sure. Otherwise would have saved the money or put it somewhere else. Cables have been my last frontier after upgrading my equipment over time and content so far with what I have. This hobby can get quite expensive, specially if trying to get the best out of 2-ch music. I guess if I was more into movie home theater, power cord differences may be harder to decipher in a movie sound setting.
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post #69 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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So, if there is no mystery to noise, now you want me to have my ears measured and for a machine to quantify the “improvement or difference” I am hearing and correct my brain that it’s sending the wrong message to my ears? Sorry, I trust my ears as the final arbiter.
There's no need for you to measure your ears. Noise is extremely easy to measure and there's no ambiguity to it, so in this case yes, only a measurement of your system showing the improvement is credible. It would be nice if you could quantify this purported improvement with something better than an anecdote.

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post #70 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 10:51 AM
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Sorry all for taking this discussion off course than the intended thread purpose. I can see how some folks can get very passionate about their views, specially when it comes to cables. Let’s get back on topic.
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post #71 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 10:56 AM
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Hello All and Happy New Year.
Regarding the ones bashing I must remind you that audioquest also has economical cables and products (Dragonfly Cobalt DAC) for example. On High-End systems, the expensive stuff more than justifies the price. As for GoldenEar is a great product at that price point but the actual components are of cheap construction and don’t last very long. I hope audioquest can improve on internal amps and driver construction before they up the prices.
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post #72 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello All and Happy New Year.
Regarding the ones bashing I must remind you that audioquest also has economical cables and products (Dragonfly Cobalt DAC) for example. On High-End systems, the expensive stuff more than justifies the price. As for GoldenEar is a great product at that price point but the actual components are of cheap construction and don’t last very long. I hope audioquest can improve on internal amps and driver construction before they up the prices.
Huh? No product Audioquest sells competes in price with quality cables on Amazon from a wide variety of brands. A $300 USB dongle DAC is certainly not proof that they sell "economical" products. You can get an Audioengine USB dongle DAC for 1/3 the price, for example.

Justified pricing is clearly "in the bank account of the beholder" lol. People can spend their money however they want, casinos await the foolish. But if you are not rich it's usually helpful to spend money wisely. IMO audiophile cables are never a wise investment and the category is full of people willing to take unverifiable (and often rather ridiculous) claims at face value.

Goldenear components are cheap construction and do not last? I have never heard this claim before and all my Goldenear gear works perfectly after many years of use. Goldenear displays all the internals of its speakers at shows, I have not seen anything to indicate it's of poor quality.

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post #73 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 12:24 PM
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Of course not. You don't need that you only need the upgraded cable to be between the amp and the speaker or between the wall and the amp etc. Everyone knows that


Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #75 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 12:44 PM
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I wonder what store Bill Low owned in Portland? Guessing it was years ago.

I have GE Triton 2's and XL center in my little theater room. They're great for theater, ok for music. I wouldn't say they sound very natural but they're dynamic and clear and image well, which is what I want with home theater. That being said, if someone has some Spatial M4's or M3's they want to trade I'd like to try those in my theater room!

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As I posted in the GE Anticipation thread it’s more of a matter of cashing out as Father Time continues to march on.

AQ appeared to have the relationship as well as the cash to make it happen.

I do agree the specs are generous and best case without knowing if the cut is 3, 6 or 10dB as well as testing environment.

However the line performs well and fits those looking to save space while providing a different look. Full disclosure this comes from a GE dealer.

As far as some of the shots being fired well that is uncalled for. Sandy is a well respected and successful individual in the AV industry. If you have ever heard or read interviews he admits he is a designer or concept guy. A gentleman and marketing expert built from decades in the business.

At the end of the day it’s about whom do you trust and who has the cash. I have bought and sold successful businesses in a niche market, it’s tough. It’s not like buying or selling Apple stock with your local broker.

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Also since the debate is so strong around power cords..

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post #78 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
A $300 USB dongle DAC is certainly not proof that they sell "economical" products. You can get an Audioengine USB dongle DAC for 1/3 the price, for example.
Also Monoprice, said by some to be to be a close clone to the AQ dongle DAC, also for 1/3rd the price, and if their specs are to be trusted ("122 dB SNR") not too shabby.

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@imagic . You obviously have never open any of the GE gear to see what I meant. The Internal Amps & Crossovers reminded me of RadioShack stuff, specially when compare to the Amp of a JLAudio Sub for example. When you compare drivers to the likes of Martin Logan or Steinway Lyngdorf you can clearly see what an entry point GE products are. I’ve worked for a GE dealer long enough to see them failed.
I’ve been lucky enough to play with all kinds of gears at clients house to see and hear from the most basic to the most extreme.
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Power cords do not alter the noise and Mark is right that this can be measured, assuming you can trust measurements from (say) a company already caught using fudged data or cooked demos. Snake oil peddlers know that noise is a top concern of many audio enthusiasts so this is also a top lie they use in their marketing.

The placebo effect is real and everyone, without exception, is susceptible to it. Luckily scientists invented the double blind test to get around this issue.

RCA cords in video applications can be sensitive to impedance mismatches in some, but not all gear combinations. It is supposed to be 75 ohm cable but often deviates from this spec significantly. The distance of the run can matter too. A darker picture is a common manifestation.
This thread is exactly what I thought it would be! Kudos to the defenders of reality. It can be tiresome, I know.

I think the issue really comes down to the question: if you believe you can hear something, but in any measurable objective fact you cannot, are you actually hearing it? The brain is a powerful thing. But thank god for the double blind test, which no one who claims they've "kept all else equal, only changed the [cable, whatever]" has actually performed.

In any case, happy for people to spend their money however they like.

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post #81 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 01:33 PM
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This thread is exactly what I thought it would be!
Surprised?



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #82 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 02:07 PM
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I wonder what store Bill Low owned in Portland?
Maybe it was called "Low End Audio"? or maybe "Low-Fi Sound" ?

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post #83 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 02:21 PM
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[quote=leeshanok;59046488]
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Surely you measured this and can show the claimed improvement. There is no mystery when it comes to noise, no need for "I trust my ears" just a plain measurement quantifying the improvement would be great! [/QUOTE

So, if there is no mystery to noise, now you want me to have my ears measured and for a machine to quantify the “improvement or difference” I am hearing and correct my brain that it’s sending the wrong message to my ears? Sorry, I trust my ears as the final arbiter.
I didn't know your ears overrides the decisions of one's brain's translation of the input. News to me and bet lots of others too.

Actually, he wanted you to have measured data of the power cables, not your ears, and show an audible difference between the better cable you think makes the difference and the old power cable.

Since you trust your ears so much I bet you conduct your listening comparisons with bias controlled protocols, blind, DBT? Then you would really rely only on your ears, not your eyes.

Something went wrong in the quote

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post #84 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
Golden Ear was started by the marketing guy from Polk Audio (he made white lab coats cool!)
Matthew Polk visited my store once. I razzed him that he must have forgotten his white lab coat!

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post #85 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 03:57 PM
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I really don't care about what the engineering specs say, if I can hear an improvement in quality. In my case, stronger meds . . .
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post #86 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, but that is wrong in my case. And I was referring to the audio portion of the HDMI cable, not the video signal. I was quite surprised when I auditioned AudioQuest Cinnamon HDMI ran from my HTPC to a Denon AVR. I really don't care about what the engineering specs say, if I can hear an improvement in quality. In my case, stronger meds and lows. Maybe a judder or timing issue with cheaper cables, I don't know and could care less. I listen with my ears, ignoring engineering specs.

Also, If you ever listen to Paul, from PS Audio, he also talks about the improvement using AudioQuest interconnects. Maybe we're all crazy, but if it makes me enjoy my system more, so be it.
I can't argue with an unsubstantiated anecdote based on subjective observation. I can say that an audible increase in bass or midrange output is super simple and easy to measure, so I'd want to see measurements that back up what you say before I believed one word of it.

Nothing personal. Not asking you do do it. Just letting you know what it would take to convince me.

And even if there was an issue with your old cable, the simple fact is there's plenty of cheap HDMI cables on Amazon that work perfectly for both audio and video.
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post #87 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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You don't have to believe anything I say except for one thing.

You just lost me as a follower.

And we don't even have to do a test.

OK, I can accept that. But what I cannot do is agree with an unsubstantiated claim that could easily be proven (or disproven) with a basic measurement.

Also... speaking to the post you deleted and replaced with the one I quoted, I've been quite consistent in my position on cables for a long time and vocal about it too, so I doubt many readers find what I'm writing to be surprising.
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post #88 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Last but not least... Telling people what they hear and don't hear is down right rude and insulting and whatever other derogatory word you want to use.

Wonder how many others you have been offending like this. Wow!
You should not feel insulted because I asked for proof. Asking for proof of claims pertaining to audio or video performance is pretty much the whole point of this forum.

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post #89 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 05:39 PM
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Did you hear that?

All the Golden Ear fans doing a face-palm all at once!

Who's next? Nordost buys Polk Audio or Kimber purchases Tekton?

Not every day you see an oil company buy a speaker company--the GE fans must be loving this news! Now for the church of Scientilogy to buy out Bose--it could happen!

May we live in interesting times...
It could happen !


Unlike you career as a funnyman !
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post #90 of 421 Old 01-04-2020, 06:01 PM
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You don't have to believe anything I say except for one thing.

You just lost me as a follower.

And we don't even have to do a test.
Good. Riddance.
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