How to better 2.1 performance in a combined system? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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How to better 2.1 performance in a combined system?

Hi, I've been around this site for a little while and learned alot. It's helped build the system I have today, but I've designed it with home theater in mind for the most part even though music performance is very important to me. I've never considered separates and wonder what I may be missing out on.

What can I do to better the 2.1 performance of my existing stereo as I would still want to use it as a combined system? Would adding a separate amp do the trick, would that be a noticeable upgrade? Would the avr be good enough as a preamp/DAC or is leaving that in the equation leaving a big part of the benefit out.

Avr is a Nad t758v3, 110w with dirac room correction, speakers - nht c3, sub - outlaw x12. I thought even adding an amp with more power like the xtz edge might be nice for the speakers.

Most listening is done through Spotify through WiFi.

Any help appreciated!

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post #2 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 01:15 PM
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What does your system not do that you wish it did? Your receiver has a good DAC and is probably fine for power with 87dB sensitivity speakers, especially with a subwoofer. Off the top of my head I'd suggest room treatment, you have a decent system but the room might be holding you back.
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post #3 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not really able to audition other systems too hear possible differences. Not that I thought I was missing something, but from reading many posts about the sonic difference/improvement between home theater 2 channel music vs dedicated 2 channel, I'm just curious as to what I could be missing out on.

I will research a bit more on room treatments though.

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post #4 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 01:38 PM
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A second subwoofer would help even out the bass response across the room. If you listen while moving around, or just not in the sweet spot all the time, I think that would provide a significant improvement. Probably more so than any amp or DAC would.

Although, adding a miniDSP 2x4HD in addition to a 2nd sub would also provide you with the ability to tailor your response to your personal taste.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #5 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking of a 2nd sub. Wasn't sure if I wanted to try dual sealed rythmiks or go with a 2nd outlaw.

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post #6 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jayr0c View Post
I was thinking of a 2nd sub. Wasn't sure if I wanted to try dual sealed rythmiks or go with a 2nd outlaw.

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How big is your room?

I love me some Rythmik's but I understand that Outlaw is a solid performer. I've read it was designed by Dr Hsu, but cannot confirm that is accurate.

Adding a 2nd Outlaw would be easiest, but if you are under sized for your room, then yea, converting to two different ones could be in order but most go from sealed to low tuned ported unless you have a small room.

That said, if it's "tighter" bass you're after, you'd be hard pressed to find better than Rythmik (sealed or ported) for the money.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayr0c View Post
I'm not really able to audition other systems too hear possible differences. Not that I thought I was missing something, but from reading many posts about the sonic difference/improvement between home theater 2 channel music vs dedicated 2 channel, I'm just curious as to what I could be missing out on.
"2 channel electronics are always better for music than surround," is not an accepted fact, it's somewhere between urban myth and conventional wisdom. If you were talking about a $200 surround receiver that would be one thing but NAD is honest, maybe even conservative about their power ratings. Again, what are you missing in your current system? Buying stuff because you want some unspecified "better" is a serious rabbit hole to fall down full of $8000 power cables and magic bricks.
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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How big is your room?
4500 cu ft. I thought having 2 large subs might go against waf a little. Nice thing is is they can double as a side table atleast.

What I really wanted to do was try out a rythmik ported sub, but thought 2 sealed subs would fit alot easier in a room than 2 large subs. It's in my main living room, not a dedicated room.

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post #9 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Again, what are you missing in your current system?
I watch speaker reviews on YouTube and the channels I follow are all 2 channel guys or Atleast separate music/ht systems which makes me wonder what differences there are in having separates to a good avr. It's not that I think I'm missing something, this hobby is always about learning something new, asking questions, so that's what I'm doing. I wasn't sure if a higher end Reciever could be considered "good" by 2.0 music enthusiasts or if there was something I could add to up the performance.

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post #10 of 13 Old 05-20-2020, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayr0c View Post
4500 cu ft. I thought having 2 large subs might go against waf a little. Nice thing is is they can double as a side table atleast.

What I really wanted to do was try out a rythmik ported sub, but thought 2 sealed subs would fit alot easier in a room than 2 large subs. It's in my main living room, not a dedicated room.

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If you're happy with the sound quality and output of the Outlaw, I'd just get a 2nd one. For ~$650, I doubt you could make a bigger impact from any electronics "upgrade" for the same money (or double the money for that matter).

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-21-2020, 09:36 PM
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If the itch won't go away without seeing for yourself, you could find a seller with a generous return policy (Amazon Prime? BB? Crutchfield?), get something equivalent to what you'd like, and see for yourself.
If you like it, then get the permanent solution, but if you're unsure, return it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayr0c View Post
I watch speaker reviews on YouTube and the channels I follow are all 2 channel guys or Atleast separate music/ht systems which makes me wonder what differences there are in having separates to a good avr. It's not that I think I'm missing something, this hobby is always about learning something new, asking questions, so that's what I'm doing. I wasn't sure if a higher end Reciever could be considered "good" by 2.0 music enthusiasts or if there was something I could add to up the performance.

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post #12 of 13 Old 05-24-2020, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Appreciate all the comments, thanks

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post #13 of 13 Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM
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Appreciate all the comments, thanks

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FWIW. I built my dedicated 2CH system and then expanded it to be used for HT. I planned out the system in phases, if you will, as i couldnt buy everything all at once. Phase 1 included speakers, bluesound Node and integrated tube amp. Phase 2 added a sub for 2.1 dedicated. Phase 3. I added HT components. A yamaha 2070 AVR, center channel, rear speakers. Phase 4 add Dolby Atmos speakers. I have my main speakers connected to my integrated tube amp so when I want to listen to music, I turn on my bluesound node and listen away. My sub is connected to my integrated amp via high level connection. When I decide to watch a movie, I have my integrated amp connected to the pre-outs of my AVR. My sub's LFE is connected to the AVR but left the high level connection to my integrated tube amp. This set up allows me to not have to move any speaker/sub connections while allowing me to listen to my music via the tube amp. The AVR provides the main speaker pre-outs to my tube amp while providing the necessary amplification to all other HT speakers. To me, since you mention music as important, there is a sonic difference between my tube amp and the Yamaha AVR which is why my set up is the way it is.

I'm not suggesting you change your system but wanted to give you a different look at how a system may be set up to do both 2.1 and HT. Of course, there are drawbacks in that I have to have the tube amp and AVR on when I watch movies but I view this as a pre-pro/amp set up.
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