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post #1 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 01:46 AM - Thread Starter
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what do you think of this speaker wire

What do you think about 12 ga Cullen Copper Speaker Cables 120.00 for 6 feet a pair compared to other wires in the general same price bracket?
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post #2 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 02:04 AM
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I think that you can get a 100 ft roll of 12 gauge OFC for $40 from many different brands off amazon.

If you want spades or banana plugs, add $10 to find some that you like how they look.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #3 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I think that you can get a 100 ft roll of 12 gauge OFC for $40 from many different brands off amazon.

If you want spades or banana plugs, add $10 to find some that you like how they look.

You are kind sir but i get your point you dont think premium speaker cables make a difference but ive already bought silver back 12 ga wires and heard a difference but im looking for more.
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post #4 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
You are kind sir but i get your point you dont think premium speaker cables make a difference but ive already bought silver back 12 ga wires and heard a difference but im looking for more.

Just buy the ones that look the best sounding or the ones that have the most audio jargon on their website, they’ll make you think they sound the best.

It’s really all looks, and you can attain those same looks with some time on your end and not end up spending $500 for some cables that promise chocolatey smooth midrange with a 4D soundstage.

Time and time again, if this technology they promise actually made some sort of difference in the way electrons moved, then you’d see it somewhere else than the snake oil audio market.

Another way to look at it is why are you using cables to supposedly EQ your system? Why wouldn’t you just EQ it to sound like the more expensive nicer sounding cable?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #5 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
What do you think about 12 ga Cullen Copper Speaker Cables 120.00 for 6 feet a pair compared to other wires in the general same price bracket?
Overpriced.



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post #6 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 04:58 AM
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Wire you asking?
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post #7 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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It makes my head shake for the amount of controversy this topic makes. And I wonder why its so hard to not comment if you dont believe in speaker wire making a difference. Having said that I went with for 56 bucks a pair 6 feet long.

Canare 4S11 Star Quad 11 AWG
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post #8 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 07:03 AM
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Just make sure you get the directional arrows going in the correct direction or the electrons won't work right


As you can tell I think cables are snake oil, but if it makes you happy, go for it. I'm sure they won't sound any better or worse than 12/2 OFC from Monoprice but they look nice, and that can be worth something. Is your room properly treated? If not that might be something you could spend money on that would have a real difference in sound.

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post #9 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 07:46 AM
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The better the sound system the easier it is to tell differences in cables and wires. Many people own receivers and bookshelf speakers which makes it difficult to hear the differences. But owning high quality separates can make many differences easy to hear. As the advice says, wires and cables should be auditioned only after the system is where you think you want it.
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post #10 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hhawk View Post
The better the sound system the easier it is to tell differences in cables and wires. .

Of course. If you can't hear the difference, just blame it on the equipment... such an easy out to excuse a lack of results. But why would the 'better' sound systems be so sensitive to such things? Seems like a poorly designed system if it is so intolerant of the cables that work perfectly fine on 'not as better' systems.



Meanwhile, we are still waiting on someone that actually measures a sound difference resulting from these high end cables, and will keep speaking up so as to help educate those that are susceptible to unsubstantiated claims that could lead to wasting money. Claims are easy, substantiation is hard.
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post #11 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 08:17 AM
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I would love to see someone do a side by side comparison be between something as simple as 14ga zip wire against different price range cables. Not just a side by side can you hear the difference, but one where all the frequency data is captured and charted out.

That being said, there can be audible differences due to poor selection of wire gague over long runs(50'-100') due to capacitance and impedance issues. I have and a hard time believing the 14 gague cable A or cable B would make a difference over short runs. Copper wire is still copper wire, you can't change the physics of it. If they are making the conductors out of silver or gold vs copper, then that could possible change things.
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post #12 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Of course. If you can't hear the difference, just blame it on the equipment... such an easy out to excuse a lack of results. But why would the 'better' sound systems be so sensitive to such things? Seems like a poorly designed system if it is so intolerant of the cables that work perfectly fine on 'not as better' systems.



Meanwhile, we are still waiting on someone that actually measures a sound difference resulting from these high end cables, and will keep speaking up so as to help educate those that are susceptible to unsubstantiated claims that could lead to wasting money. Claims are easy, substantiation is hard.

Nah, just common sense. When you take a photo with higher resolution, the more detail you will see. Similarly, the better the quality of your components, the more details that get through. These are subtle, you do have to be the type of person who closes their eyes and LISTENS to music.

What you are doing is pretending to be special and have all the knowledge. You want to save people who do not need saved. No one should be spending lots of money for cables and wires for a modest system. Most people realize that.
Your nonsensical references to lack of science to defend your beliefs is ridiculous to those who have better equipment as well as those who make a living reviewing audio equipment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
It makes my head shake for the amount of controversy this topic makes. And I wonder why its so hard to not comment if you dont believe in speaker wire making a difference. Having said that I went with for 56 bucks a pair 6 feet long.

Canare 4S11 Star Quad 11 AWG
Talking about cable on AVS Forum is like being at the Spanish Inquisition. You will be found guilty and burned at the stake If you want to find sanctuary and other opinions try some other forums.
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post #14 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by hhawk View Post
Nah, just common sense. When you take a photo with higher resolution, the more detail you will see. Similarly, the better the quality of your components, the more details that get through. These are subtle, you do have to be the type of person who closes their eyes and LISTENS to music.
.

Unfortunately, what you assume is your 'common sense' does not have any technical or scientifically demonstrated rationale. It used to be 'common sense' that the earth is flat. We do have proven science that explains perception biases, and we have tools to measure sound well beyond what humans can hear, and yet we don't have any evidence that miniscule difference posed by these 'high end' cables impacts speaker output in any way that might be shown as an improvement in sound.



I am OK with people that believe they hear these differences, and attribute them to their fine quality component selection and superior hearing skills. I wish those same people would admit that perception biases may be at play rather than make claims about the cables that cannot be meaningfully substantiated. Denial of the proven science of perception bias, and insistence that they are somehow not susceptible to it, is a typical attribute I've observed in most who make these claims.


So go ahead and believe there is a difference, and go ahead and let others know you believe it. Just admit the possibility of perception bias, and that there is no technical substantiation for your belief.



BTW, Lake Ontario looks more vivid now that I've dumped a cup of blue food coloring into it. I asked others if they thought the lake looked more vivid after telling them I thought it did, some of them said yes. Those must have been the people with good vision like me.

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post #15 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 09:14 AM
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A Wiki article on this subject has a link to an essay written by Roger Russell, a former engineer and speaker designer for McIntosh Labs:


http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


Very interesting read...
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post #16 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
It makes my head shake for the amount of controversy this topic makes. And I wonder why its so hard to not comment if you dont believe in speaker wire making a difference. Having said that I went with for 56 bucks a pair 6 feet long.

Canare 4S11 Star Quad 11 AWG
If it always makes your "head shake", then why ask here? You should expect most opinions to differ from yours.
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post #17 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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If it always makes your "head shake", then why ask here? You should expect most opinions to differ from yours.

What i expect is respect the same as anyone else on here deserves...end of discussion (close thread if you like admin)
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post #18 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 01:12 PM
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Try to enjoy your new speaker wire. If the wires have "arrows", be sure to they point in the proper direction. Also, give them a few weeks to "break in".



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #19 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
It makes my head shake for the amount of controversy this topic makes.
Probably because after all these decades I'm still looking for the evidence that these fancy cables make any sonic difference beyond RLC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
Canare 4S11 Star Quad 11 AWG
Excellent cable, as are the Belden and Mogami equivalents. I'd hate to think of how many kms of this stuff I've run over the years.
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post #20 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 01:46 PM
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At 6'... it would be tough to compare (prove?) "sonic/audible" improvement(s).



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #21 of 58 Old 05-26-2020, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
What i expect is respect the same as anyone else on here deserves...end of discussion (close thread if you like admin)
It's fine, we all respect your right to be wrong , just respect our right to point it out . Though, it looks like you bought a reasonable cable, so....? End of discussion, indeed.
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post #22 of 58 Old 05-28-2020, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post
Wire you asking?

Ha, ha....nice one...


Quote:
Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
It makes my head shake for the amount of controversy this topic makes. And I wonder why its so hard to not comment if you dont believe in speaker wire making a difference. Having said that I went with for 56 bucks a pair 6 feet long.

Canare 4S11 Star Quad 11 AWG

I think that's reasonable, though some will argue. (Sure, you could get even cheaper, but....) The other ones for $120.00, yeah, a bit more out there. So you got these for less than half that price. Canare is good stuff, I doubt you'd hear any difference between this and the Cullen.

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post #23 of 58 Old 05-28-2020, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
What do you think about 12 ga Cullen Copper Speaker Cables 120.00 for 6 feet a pair compared to other wires in the general same price bracket?
Just get 100' of Monoprice or Amazon Basics OFC for less than $50.
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Just get 100' of Monoprice or Amazon Basics OFC for less than $50.
Plus they have CL-2 rated versions at that price which as I understand it need to adhere to certain NEC?, CSA?, UL? codes.
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post #25 of 58 Old 05-28-2020, 11:23 AM
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What i expect is respect the same as anyone else on here deserves...end of discussion (close thread if you like admin)
more importantly, what color is your C3, coupe or vert, SB or BB ?

I guess by now you've learned that most posters around here have little regard for expensive wire discussion, to which I basically agree. It's sometimes more fun to get them started on the difference or lack there of in the way amps can sound ..............
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post #26 of 58 Old 05-28-2020, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
It makes my head shake for the amount of controversy this topic makes. And I wonder why its so hard to not comment if you dont believe in speaker wire making a difference.
Because it largely doesn't - whether you spend $120 on 6 feet or $50 on 100 feet, if it's the same 99% Oxygen-Free Copper, you will not hear a lick of difference between the two.
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Originally Posted by stngray72 View Post
What do you think about 12 ga Cullen Copper Speaker Cables 120.00 for 6 feet a pair compared to other wires in the general same price bracket?
No different from any other 12 gauge wires that are a lot cheaper. Copper and silver coated copper don't mean a thing. You want to really make a different......AND if your amp can be stable to drive high capacitance cable, try Kimber Kable type of knitted multiwire cables. There are other brands, the important thing is multiwire knitted cables. Kimber is NOT the only one. Type of metal is NOT important, just marketing hype.

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post #28 of 58 Old 05-28-2020, 01:03 PM
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The job of a speaker wire is to make a difference? In my hobby, high fidelity, the job of a speaker wire is to faithfully/accurately transmit the signal perfectly without any discernible alteration or difference, aka "transparently". If the sound is audibly different the wire is low fidelity.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".

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post #29 of 58 Old 05-28-2020, 01:32 PM
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Knitting is for hats and sweaters. Multi strand wire from monoprice is the smart choice for speakers. These cables provide the exact same amount of sound improvement as the most expensive cable out there. No manufacturer has ever demonstrated better performance when it comes to sound quality or sound improvement.
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post #30 of 58 Old 05-28-2020, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The job of a speaker wire is to make a difference? In my hobby, high fidelity, the job of a speaker wire is to faithfully/accurately transmit the signal perfectly without any discernible alteration or difference, aka "transparently". If the sound is audibly different the wire is low fidelity.
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Knitting is for hats and sweaters. Multi strand wire from monoprice is the smart choice for speakers. These cables provide the exact same amount of sound improvement as the most expensive cable out there. No manufacturer has ever demonstrated better performance when it comes to sound quality or sound improvement.
wait a minute boys both of you are 'liking' each other posts yet when I read them you're not in agreement .......... 'Z' states that speaker wire is to transmit the signal perfectly without alteration yet PacMan you clearly talk of 'sound improvement', sounds like an alteration to me !!

LOL, just pokin' a bit of fun on a rainy afternoon !
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