Anyone own and use Bryston or MOSFET power amp? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 96 Old 06-14-2020, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
But some salesman that knows nothing about science always quote measurements and said they are scientific.
Everyone here knows "some salesman" means you are talking about me (so you might as well use my name) and by saying I "know nothing about science" you are attacking me with with an insult with the sole intent to incite fighting. Posting to incite fighting breaks forums rules.
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post #62 of 96 Old 06-14-2020, 10:19 PM
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I have three Bryston amps. A 4B for the fronts and two 2BLP's. One for the rears and one bridged for the center. I purchased them in the early 90's. They have been daily drivers ever since. I like them a lot. They have plenty of horsepower for home theater and sound wonderful for 2 channel. I have Vandersteen's all around. 2ci fronts, 1b rears, VCC1 center and a pair of 2W subs. I'm not going to give a load of audio psyco word salad but will say they do what I want/need them to do. I would buy them again.
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post #63 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Everyone here knows "some salesman" means you are talking about me (so you might as well use my name) and by saying I "know nothing about science" you are attacking me with with an insult with the sole intent to incite fighting. Posting to incite fighting breaks forums rules.
Sensitive? You did start the whole thing, we stay out of each other's way for a while, you called me out that I don't have an EE degree because you don't even know how EE works. Now that I call you out, then you get sensitive? You were just a salesman right? You keep quoting "science", but yet very few first hand experience, right? If you talk science, it's fair to ask whether you know science or not and you show nothing that you know science. You threw out numbers and tables that you know nobody here understand to shut them up.

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

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post #64 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Sensitive?
My hearings is very sensitive, yes, thanks for asking.
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post #65 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You were just a salesman right?
Your use of the word "just" shows you are belittling my former career. I personally think that's impolite and unacceptable behavior to make fun of a fellow forum member's career in a condescending manner. This is different however from me asking you if you have a degree in electrical engineering because you've said previously you were an "EE" and according to wikipedia that denotes:
"Electrical engineers typically hold a degree in electrical engineering or electronic engineering." Yet we've established you don't have either one of those degrees.
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post #66 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You keep quoting "science", but yet very few first hand experience, right?
I'd actually consider working daily in an environment where you hook up, listen too, and compare/contrast for customers millions of dollars of different gear combinations for over twenty years "lots" of first hand experience, but I guess that's a matter of opinion.

When a client would sit down in a chair in one of my listening rooms and we would A/B compare and contrast components ("going for a test drive") it was essentially "testing" in a sense, done casually, although careful level matching using precision instrumentation was only done under critical conditions such as during a bet.

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post #67 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Your use of the word "just" shows you are belittling my former career. I personally think that's impolite and unacceptable behavior to make fun of a fellow forum member's career in a condescending manner. This is different however from me asking you if you have a degree in electrical engineering because you've said previously you were an "EE" and according to wikipedia that denotes:
"Electrical engineers typically hold a degree in electrical engineering or electronic engineering." Yet we've established you don't have either one of those degrees.
Quit quoting,


You are not in the field, you have no idea how all these work. EE is only a title what people do, nothing to do with the EE degree. I was the manager of EE, I definitely did not look at whether the candidate has an EE degree to hire an EE. I look at what they did. Like I published papers in scientific journal and own patents in electronics. People with a music degree became a very good engineer, particular with a physics degree, reading electronic books to learn become very easy. Unlike you quoting things you don't even work on, I walked the mile, I designed and test all my stuffs. Can you say that? You have no idea what you are talking and just keep giving out links hoping people don't understand. And what degree do you have? Science of quoting?

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Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #68 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You threw out numbers and tables that you know nobody here understand to shut them up.
Which table/numbers was that? If people don't understand something it may be because I didn't explain it well and I would be more than glad to elaborate.

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post #69 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Quit quoting. . . . And what degree do you have? Science of quoting?
I will quote as much as I want to.
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post #70 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I will quote as much as I want to.
I know. Unlike me, I actually get into the trenches, designing and testing and have people coming over to listen.

BTW, I asked you many times since you sell high end amps, which one you actually think it worth the price? You got to be able to name one since you had been selling high end amps to customer for years.

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post #71 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I know, that's all you can do.

BTW, I asked you many times since you sell high end amps, which one you actually think it worth the price? You got to be able to name one since you had been selling high end amps to customer for years.
What I like/own is completely immaterial unless I make some specific observation using it, and I discuss that observation here, in which case it then calls into question the signal path integrity when I heard what I'm claiming to have heard. I strongly suspect your attempt to get me to name some gear I like or own is actually so you can then proceed to trash it.
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post #72 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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What I like/own is completely immaterial unless I make some specific observation using it, and I discuss that observation here, in which case it then calls into question the signal path integrity when I heard what I'm claiming to have heard. I strongly suspect your attempt to get me to name some gear I like or own is actually so you can then proceed to trash it.
You have a reading comprehension problem. I never ask what you own. Like I would never buy a Ferrari even though I think it's worth the money if someone actually go on the track.....And yes, people do do that. They have Corvette club that they actually get together to go to track, I am sure Ferrari must have that and Ferrari worth every penny of it on the track.

I ask you since you actually sold high end amps for years to customers, you should listen to a lot of them, name one that you think it worth the high price. Don't tell me you don't think any of them worth the money and you keep selling them to customer with a smile!!! Stop talking about signal path integrity, you don't even know what that means, just a simple question, name one that you think it's worth the money.


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I will quote as much as I want to.

I know, that's all you can do, you don't have first hand experience.

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #73 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I ask you since you actually sold high end amps for years to customers, you should listen to a lot of them, name one that you think it worth the high price. . . just a simple question, name one that you think it's worth the money.
You incorrectly think competently designed amplifiers kept below clipping sound different from one another because of marketing, your refusal to accept carefully controlled, precisely level matched, double blind tests published in the largest and oldest audio magazine in the US, Sound and Vision (called Stereo Review prior to 2000), January 1987, and your failure/inability to conduct properly controlled testing on your own. Me? I have conducted properly controlled testing and I proved it in this video of a blind test I conducted on an audio expert, an audiophile recording engineer, a self proclaimed "expert listener" (he says it in the video) who picked (and personally wired up) a 2ch. "purist" audio only system (no video, no surround) which, including all the accessories and wiring in today's dollars would be a little over $27,000, using his gear/speakers of choice and his music of choice selected by him to prove his claim and win the token bet. He failed, just like you would. Since both amps were perfect to the ear and introduced no discernible quality loss whatsoever, I guess I'd say both would be good candidates for me to use, and own, although one is markedly stronger than the other:

I'd go with the stronger one if it cost the same, just in case I someday I need the added power, although currently I don't.

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post #74 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
you actually sold high end amps for years to customers, you should listen to a lot of them. . .
I know, that's all you can do, you don't have first hand experience.
That's funny. You wrote "you actually sold high end amps for years to customers, you should listen to a lot of them" and then moments later: "you don't have first hand experience." in literally the same post. So which is it?
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post #75 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
You incorrectly think competently designed amplifiers kept below clipping sound different from one another because of marketing, your refusal to accept carefully controlled, double blind tests published in the largest and oldest audio magazine in the US, Sound and Vision (called Stereo Review prior to 2000), January 1987, and your failure/inability to conduct properly controlled testing on your own. Me? I have conducted properly controlled testing and I proved it in this video of a blind test I conducted on an audio expert, an audiophile recording engineer, a self proclaimed "expert listener" (he says it in the video) who picked (and personally wired up) a 2ch. "purist" audio only system (no video, no surround) which, including all the accessories and wiring in today's dollars would be a little over $27,000, using his gear/speakers of choice and his music of choice selected by him to prove his claim and win the token bet. He failed, just like you would. Since both amps were perfect to the ear and introduced no discernible quality loss whatsoever, I guess I'd say both would be good candidates for me to use, and own, although one is markedly stronger than the other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_V5dPB4dYk

I'd go with the stronger one if it cost the same, just in case I someday I need the added power, although currently I don't.
So you sold all the expensive highend amps to all the customers and you don't believe they make any difference. You must feel very good about yourself.

See, it isn't so hard to admit this.


As I offered, come over do the DBT with my setup. Any time.

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

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post #76 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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That's funny. You wrote "you actually sold high end amps for years to customers, you should listen to a lot of them" and then moments later: "you don't have first hand experience." in literally the same post. So which is it?
Stop playing with words. You must feel very good selling all the high end amps to customers.

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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So you sold all the expensive highend amps to all the customers and you don't believe they make any difference. You must feel very good about yourself.
See, it isn't so hard to admit this.
I have fully admited all along I sold all sorts of things to customers when asked for them but not a single moment in my multi decade career did I ever lie and say "this product sounds better than this other product" if I did not believe it to be the case.
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post #78 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:37 PM
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Stop playing with words. You must feel very good selling all the high end amps to customers.
Not sure I understand your English here so I won't respond. [I'm guessing it was some sort of insult though.] I'm here to talk science. Not sit here and get insulted.
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post #79 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I have fully admited all along I sold all sorts of things to customers when asked for them but not a single moment in my multi decade career did I ever lie and say "this product sounds better than this other product" if I did not believe it to be the case.
So you just laugh after they walked out?

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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So you just laugh after they walked out?
Its weird how you seem to think the only thing that sets one amp apart from another is sound quality. In truth they differ in many ways. Off the top of my head:

- build quality
- low impedance capability
- power
- warranty
- power meters
- prestige
- re-sale value
- looks
- speaker switching
- sensitivity controls
- balanced XLR inputs
- handles
- rack mounts

etc. etc. etc.
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post #81 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Like I offer many times, come over, DBT on my system bring you Yamaha. You don't need to quote other people's test anymore, do it together. Use my speaker cable, my speakers. Hell, I can provide Monster 12 gauge cable and some 16 gauge cable to compare speaker cables. there are a few members here living within driving distance. Have them bring their CD or other sources, bring their own music, we play the whole song. Each tester have their own song so they know exactly what to look for in quality. Play the whole song for each test.


You up for this?

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Like I offer many times, come over, DBT on my system bring you Yamaha. You don't need to quote other people's test anymore, do it together. Use my speaker cable, my speakers. Hell, I can provide Monster 12 gauge cable and some 16 gauge cable to compare speaker cables. there are a few members here living within driving distance. Have them bring their CD or other sources, bring their own music, we play the whole song. Each tester have their own song so they know exactly what to look for in quality. Play the whole song for each test.


You up for this?
^You'll pay my round trip airfare in advance, right?
---

I used to sell Bang & Olufsen systems to people left and right, sometimes costing 10's of thousands of dollars, even though I'd never buy one for me [interestingly they did have a few standout units i would've considered] but that doesn't mean they aren't right for other people just because they aren't right for me. Can you not grasp the concept that different people have different needs/desires and may value certain attributes differently than others?
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post #83 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Its weird how you seem to think the only thing that sets one amp apart from another is sound quality. In truth they differ in many ways. Off the top of my head:

- build quality
- low impedance capability
- power
- warranty
- power meters
- prestige
- re-sale value
- looks
- speaker switching
- sensitivity controls
- balanced XLR inputs
- handles
- rack mounts

etc. etc. etc.
But you said as long as the amp is not clipping, all amps sounds the same, even you cheap Yamaha AVR sounds as good as Krell or Mark Levinson. Now you talk about low impedance capability? That's where the big money comes in to drive difficult impedance like it dips to low impedance at some frequency. You are walking back on your words. I have been talking about good amp can drive low impedance, that's what makes the biggest difference. You have problem reading?



How many times you said as long as the amp is not clipped, they all sound the same? Now you start adding stuffs?

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #84 of 96 Old 06-15-2020, 11:54 PM - Thread Starter
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^You'll pay my round trip airfare in advance, right?
---

I used to sell Bang & Olufsen systems to people left and right, sometimes costing 10's of thousands of dollars, even though I'd never buy one for me [interestingly they did have a few standout units i would've considered] but that doesn't mean they aren't right for other people just because they aren't right for me. Can you not grasp the concept that different people have different needs/desires and may value certain attributes differently than others?
You are the one that challenge me, why should I pay your air fair? If you have the confidence, come over, I challenge you.

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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But you said as long as the amp is not clipping, all amps sounds the same, even you cheap Yamaha AVR sounds as good as Krell or Mark Levinson. Now you talk about low impedance capability?
If an amp can't drive a low impedance load it clips. I never claimed all amps clipped sound the same nor that all amps have the same power.
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You up for this?
No that's you proposing I fly to you.

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My patience is growing thin with your erratic behavior which is making me question why I am wasting my time with you. You are incorrigible.
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post #88 of 96 Old 06-16-2020, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
If an amp can't drive a low impedance load it clips.
No it won't if you have a cheap 100W or 200W yamaha...........if it is honest about the 100W or 200W. It will not clip, it just poop out.

Now you change the story. You never said about low impedance, you just said as long as the amp is not clip, they all sound the same all this time. Now you are forced to agree with me. As an amp designer, I know how hard it is to drive difficult load with low impedance dips. That's where it cost the big money.

How many times I talked about if you have an easy to drive 8ohm speakers, amp is not that important, only the ones that is hard to drive with sharp impedance peak and dip, that's when a good amp with very high damping factor at high frequencies shine. You have problem reading?

So now you admit for low impedance speaker, not all amps are the same?

Let me give you a lesson from studying a few cheap yamaha circuits, they use only one or max two pairs of output transistors. It's not going to be good in driving hard to drive speakers UNLESS you use small 16 gauge wires to shield the amp from the speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
My patience is growing thin with your erratic behavior which is making me question why I am wasting my time with you. You are incorrigible.

I thought you like to talk science and theory, we are having a good conversation.

Own designed power amps, own designed preamps, JM LAB Focal Alto Utopia and Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 06-16-2020 at 12:07 AM.
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post #89 of 96 Old 06-16-2020, 12:08 AM
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No it won't if you have a cheap 100W or 200W yamaha...........if it is honest about the 100W or 200W. It will not clip, it just poop out.
It (an amp driven to levels it can't sustain into a difficult load) will go into massive distortion. That is not "being kept within its operational range" a contingency of what makes an amp a candidate for a test. That's not new and I have stated it many times before, for years, but I don't spell out every single tiny picky little detail in every single post. I never claimed all amps have the same power nor low impedance load capability.

Last edited by m. zillch; 06-16-2020 at 12:28 AM.
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post #90 of 96 Old 06-16-2020, 12:15 AM
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I thought you like to talk science and theory, we are having a good conversation.
You accused me of unethical behavior/conduct and either lieing to customers or laughing at them when they left. That is rude behavior on your part in my book so no this is not friendly conversation. Cracks about fellow forum members reading comprehension is also unfriendly behavior.

Last edited by m. zillch; 06-16-2020 at 12:25 AM.
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