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post #61 of 216 Old 06-24-2020, 07:18 PM
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Im medium agnostic. I stream, play vinyl, CDs, cassettes, and the harmonica occasionaly.

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post #62 of 216 Old 06-24-2020, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Yes, the back cueing damages the arm bearings.
Is that something Technics themselves admit?
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post #63 of 216 Old 06-24-2020, 07:52 PM
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Is that something Technics themselves admit?
Not to my knowledge, but it's something I've experienced in a couple that have come across my workbench. You can feel the slop and it doesn't track as well as a non DJ'd version.

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post #64 of 216 Old 06-24-2020, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Could you elaborate on that? . . .

How do 45s end up being inferior, in practice, in your experience?
[First I'll assume you already get why a 45 rpm record of the same groove radius sounds better than a 33 on paper so I won't bother to address that.]

Why does a 45 on paper sound better but in practice often doesn't? Here's Arny's explanation:

"IME most single play 45's are hastily made with quick delivery in high volumes being of the essence. LP's are very sensitive to care during production and sacrifice that, and SQ quickly follows it."


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post #65 of 216 Old 06-24-2020, 11:52 PM
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[quote=Frostyboy115;59855452]
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Ah, I knew there were things that I forgot to add to my list and as far as cons go, CD jewel cases are right up there near the top. I have broken my fair share of the either opening them or in a few rare instances, dropping them.
And let's not forget the CD trays that some/all of the holding "teeth" break leaving you with the CD loose inside.
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post #66 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 12:33 AM
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CD can take a lot more abuse than vinyl, you really have to scratch it to make it fail. Vinyl, good luck. I never have to, but do they sell the jewel case? For the ones I listen a lot, I just stack the CD together without casing. Been like that for years and never run into problem. Don't even think about trying on vinyl. For vinyl, even if you look at it wrong, it might give you problem. Then if you like the album and listen a lot, you wear out the vinyl. I worn out two of the Hendrix's Band of Gypsy and had to get the third those days.

Also, if you worry about losing or damage a CD, rip it and burn more copies. Being digital, sound quality won't degrade no matter how many times you copy it. I have my favorite Dave Grusin Migration and Kilauea ripped and put in the laptop so I can burn copies any time I want.

As for reading the stuffs on the CD cover, google the info if you want to now a days!!! It's not like in the good old days you have no other way to get info except reading the album cover. We don't even put CD in their cover when we put in the car, just a booklet that has pocket to store the CDs.

Their is NOT a single thing about vinyl that can touch the CD, not the sound quality, not the ruggedness of the vinyl that can touch CD. It's over unless you are stuck in the yester-decades.

AND, I am already oldfalt, I never get into other digital stream that are even better. CD already inferior, why are we still talking about vinyl? Why spend extra $2K on TT and phono preamp to listen to something inferior to start? Spend the extra money on a better pair of speakers!!!

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post #67 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 08:20 AM
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The sooner the vinyl "fad" is over with, the sooner I can pick up dollar albums again . CD is the less expensive physical media now and I'm picking up the titles I can't afford on vinyl, used, on the cheap.

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post #68 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Most modern pop/rock is so awful musically I hate it. Can't bear rap. Can't see the point of paying a serious premium for vinyl with music I don't really like.
I find myself taking more chances with my vinyl purchases more than anything else, and I appreciate the collector aspect of that medium because I like collecting. I'm a sucker for the "limited edition" coloured vinyl, and have purchased stuff like that from bands I don't particularly like or even know anything about if it's a super limited run of a pressing.

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post #69 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
I can't speak to all of them but the first LP to CD conversion service I randomly came across costs markedly more than simply buying a brand new CD (if the LP came out on CD) itself. [...]
Yes, it not cheap to get that kind of work done -- it's tedious, as you know. That particular outfit converts only LPs that are out of print and never were available as digital. I suppose that's for legal reasons. That makes his market pretty specialized. But if you have an OOP LP and no turntable, even his fees might be worth it to you (as they were to me for a couple of old albums).

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Spoiler!
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post #70 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Good post.


I'm 56 so grew up listening to records but dumped records for digital when CDs came out and mostly never looked back. Until the vinyl revival wave came, which helped revive my own interest in vinyl.



I'd kept a turntable around on and off for years too, that I'd throw in the system to listen to the records I'd been too lazy to throw away. That was both part of the reason I hadn't gone back to vinyl AND a spark for eventually getting me back in to it. Essentially, while I did notice and enjoy a certain nostalgic and/or comfy alluring sound to vinyl when I played it, I associated it mostly with "Old Dusty Things." All my original records were pretty moth-eaten in terms of covers and sleeves, and I hadn't taken a lot of care of them so they tended to be pretty noisy and scratchy. And for the longest time even stepping in to any surviving record shop was to look through similar reams of "dusty old Second-Hand records." Felt like both a sonic and aesthetic backwards experience.


What changed things for me was the revival of vinyl when I started noticing how much NEW vinyl was being released - both new recordings and re-releases of previous albums, re-masters, etc. I'm a huge fan of soundtracks and that soundtrack genre was particularly big on vinyl, with many re-releases of older soundtracks and most new soundtracks being released on vinyl. The attention to detail in the vinyl soundtrack releases was often off the charts.
The artwork often gorgeous, the attention paid to the materials and feel of the album, even the vinyl coming in many intriguing color designs. And then to slide out a Brand New Record from the sleeve, spanking new pristine vinyl, something I never really experienced since vinyl's hey-day. It felt "new" again, re-vitalized.



And even on my older micro seiki turntable I kept around, the sound quality...new, quiet vinyl...was often fantastic!


So as I dipped more and more in to buying newly released vinyl I found it a really compelling, rewarding experience in every parameter, from aesthetic, to physical, to the sound. The fact I was buying more vinyl induced me to upgrade my turntable to a high-mass and, to me, gorgeous looking turntable. And that introduced yet another pleasing aspect of playing records: turntables are just really cool (to me) both in the engineering and aesthetic appeal, so I get to interact with a really cool piece of gear every time I select a record. Plus, the turntable/arm/cartridge/phono-stage upgrade made ALL my vinyl sound better than I imagined it could.


And down the rabbit hole I went. Despite owning a great digital system (ripped CDs lossless streaming, Tidal, all through a Benchmark DAC) and loving digital, I found myself being drawn more often to purchasing and playing records over the past several years. (I also fell in love with a genre - Library Music - which is mostly found on LP, not in digital form).


None of that is to say "vinyl is better than digital" but rather it's just a description of why vinyl has been rewarding for ME, personally.


And I'll end off with some pros and cons of mediums in terms of my own criteria:


1. CDs.


PROS: When they came out: cleaner more accurate sound. Smaller form factor took up less room. Sound stayed "perfectly the same" if cared for properly.


CONS: Hate, hate, hate the form factor. Can not stand jewel cases which are ugly, not nice to hold, which break and snap at a moment's notice. At this point the CD itself seems superfluous to me: I see it as simply a carrier of the 1s and 0s which can be more conveniently stored on hard drives or streamed. So I don't want CDs to take up any physical space in my house at this point.


2. STREAMING DIGITAL (Both streaming ripped CD library and paid services, in my case Tidal):


PROS: Far more convenient in most ways once set up. Cool interface on iphone or ipad. Countess albums and songs at flick of a finger, never even have to get out of my seat.


CONS: Ripping the physical CDs, and doing the work to organize metadata, was a soul-draining experience. Tedious as hell and just went on and on and on. Glad it is behind me. Also, while album art can be decent on a hand held device, it's not nearly as satisfying as a nice LP in the hand.
Also, one of the PROS also turned out to be something of a CON for me. The instant access to thousands or millions of tracks meant listening to music became more like surfing the web. A "this is interesting, but I wonder what this link will lead to" where I ended up surfing through and sampling music more than really settling down and absorbing. I'd rarely listen to whole albums - there was a restless quality to imbibing music. And, there was the "more of it you have, the less you value it" psychology meant, for me, music felt a bit less substantial, more background. As well, given like many people I work all day on a computer, this meant that listening to music involved yet more interaction with computers and screens. My computer and my phone are tugging at me all day long for attention. I don't want more of the same. Switching to listening to vinyl is a way of really taking a break from digital life for a while, of unplugging. Like reading a paper-back book on the sofa.


3. VINYL:



PROS: (Again: from my perspective): more fulfilling physical/aesthetic experience that ultimately enhances the music listening experience. I almost always settle down for at least a full album side, usually a whole album.

And the fact vinyl tends to be more expensive and is a commitment to a whole album means that my music collection is more carefully curated. I tend to buy albums that I really want to listen to, and I can usually demo most of the tracks to know I like the album. So I can pull any album off my shelves and usually enjoy the whole thing.
Whereas I did not tend my early CD collection so closely (hence have many albums from which I only like a few pieces) and my Tidal favorites collection would tend to be filling up with individual tracks of variable interest...because it was just so easy to add anything to favorites.

Again, love owning and using my turntable.


SOUND: Vinyl, though technically not as capable of objective accuracy as digital, nonetheless tends to sound different. And I often find myself really enjoying the sound of vinyl records. Sometimes preferring the vinyl version to digital. And in just sheer "sound quality" terms, plenty of my LPs blow my mind just like my digital source can, so I rarely feel like I've compromised by listening to "poor sound quality" for the benefit of the other aesthetic elements.


I enjoy having a record collection. There is something about cognitively mapping the music on to the physical object that, for me, enhances the object and the music. There's a bit of that in why I like my tube amplifiers as well:
I love the glow of the tubes and there is a certain conceptual satisfaction that what I'm seeing is the musical signal glowing through those tubes!


Buying records is fun. Though I probably buy most from discogs, I also love the proliferation of record stores where I live, visiting is fun, and I enjoy the interaction with the staff and other record buyers at the store.


CONS: Everyone knows them as they've been listed in this thread. in particular the sonic liabilities - susceptible pops, snaps, warble, background noise, sonic degradation over time, lower technical accuracy, etc. Though some of the "cons" of "having to store the physical object" or "select and play the record, get up half way through to flip it" are "pros" to other people.
Good post Rich and while I've got ten years on you I agree with your analysis. My LP collection, while modest(1500 + or -) is still a pride and joy of mine and my anal attention to record care has shown that even 40 and 50 year old LP's can still sound superb with little or no snap, crackle and pop !
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post #71 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 10:46 AM
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Digital formats have the greater potential, however this potential is far too often squandered due to abysmal mastering due to the Loudness War.

By overamplifying the gain and applying overuse of compression, not only is the dynamic range obliterated but more often than not there is clipping of the audio signal, which causes increased distortion and hence ear fatigue.

The sad sorry situation is that in many instances the best version of a particular music item will be the vinyl release due to the simple fact that the audio mastering is superior due to not having been a casualty of the Loudness War.

Personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE


.
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post #72 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PriamFromTroy View Post
As a member of the old fogies generation I was happy to switch to CDs, no more stylus cleaner and disk washer. I lived in apartments in old buildings and there are generations of dust and every bit heads strait to my albums. What is one thing you can do with a double album and not with a CD?

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RE: Spoiler!
Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon was my go-to.

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post #73 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Good post.


SOUND: Vinyl, though technically not as capable of objective accuracy as digital, nonetheless tends to sound different. And I often find myself really enjoying the sound of vinyl records. Sometimes preferring the vinyl version to digital. And in just sheer "sound quality" terms, plenty of my LPs blow my mind just like my digital source can, so I rarely feel like I've compromised by listening to "poor sound quality" for the benefit of the other aesthetic elements.


I enjoy having a record collection. There is something about cognitively mapping the music on to the physical object that, for me, enhances the object and the music. There's a bit of that in why I like my tube amplifiers as well:
I love the glow of the tubes and there is a certain conceptual satisfaction that what I'm seeing is the musical signal glowing through those tubes!


Buying records is fun. Though I probably buy most from discogs, I also love the proliferation of record stores where I live, visiting is fun, and I enjoy the interaction with the staff and other record buyers at the store.

The thrill of the hunt is fun. Opens up some memories when you look at record and you say wow, I was doing this or that when this came out.

Reading liner notes, staring at the artwork


all good vibes
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post #74 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RagtopFE View Post
RE: Spoiler!
Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon was my go-to.
The Allman Brothers Band - Eat a Peach

I must be a few years older than you. My 1st concert was the ABB on April 21st 1972 at the New Haven Arena. This is where the New Haven Blades hockey team played. It is said they were the model for the movie "Slapstick" and I testify that it was one shabby venue, but a great show.
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post #75 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 11:23 AM
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VINYL SKIP. There are actually TT that does this, even play both sides automatically! but they tend to be no audiophile quality

ALBUM COVER. My next promotion, I will buy into ROON. Allows you to view/control your digital collection via an iPad with full album art glory.
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post #76 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Digital formats have the greater potential, however this potential is far too often squandered due to abysmal mastering due to the Loudness War.

By overamplifying the gain and applying overuse of compression, not only is the dynamic range obliterated but more often than not there is clipping of the audio signal, which causes increased distortion and hence ear fatigue.

The sad sorry situation is that in many instances the best version of a particular music item will be the vinyl due to the simple fact that the audio mastering is superior due to not having been a casualty of the Loudness War.

Personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE


.
What make you think they do a better job in vinyl? Recording and playback media is a completely different thing, you can have bad recording on vinyl and good recording in digital music. They are non related. If there is enough complain, they'll correct that for digitals.

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post #77 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 11:33 AM
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Cleaning Machines

For me the worst thing about vinyl was cleaning the records. I stopped buying new records for years. I was using a VPI 16.5 record cleaner which is great but one cleans records manually. I just bought an ultrasonic record cleaner (expensive - a Degritter) and there is, for vinyl lovers, nothing like eating dinner and having one's records cleaned and dried while doing something else. For much less money (and less functionality) one can make an ultrasonic record cleaner. Drying the record is usually done by putting the record on a dish rack.


As for sound it depends on the recording. I have thousands of CDs and thousands of LPs. There are LPs that in comparison to the same CD sound amazing. And there are CDs that blow the original LP out of the water. But in general, I prefer the prefer the warmth and ambience of vinyl. I think you get all the information out of a groove as opposed to digitized music.


Having a great turntable and cartridge helps one to appreciate vinyl. For very little money one can play CDs and they will sound excellent. That's not the case for vinyl where one wants to extract every bit of information from the groove without introducing noise into the system.
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post #78 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 11:39 AM
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I kind of gave up on vinyl mostly because they were hard to come by back when CDs started. I did keep all my Zappa albums and still have the first record I bought in 1966 Freak Out. I kept around 100 albums and wound up buying around 1,000 CDs over the years until vinyl was easier to get. I now have boxes of CDs which are all on a server and I can't seem to get rid of them. Have my vinyl collection up to around 900 at this time as I buy new and used. The record stores just started opening up here.

The biggest advantage to vinyl is that I work from home and if I play vinyl all day I get to get up every 15 minutes or so to flip or change. If I have a busy day I use HEOS to listen to the digital. There are a lot of great SACDs that I will still buy.
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post #79 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
What make you think they do a better job in vinyl? Recording and playback media is a completely different thing, you can have bad recording on vinyl and good recording in digital music. They are non related. If there is enough complain, they'll correct that for digitals.
Because statistically (unfortunately) this is a fact. That's why

It is due to the Loudness War. I wrote a paper on this very subject a while ago, which you can read HERE:

WHY ANALOGUE VINYL TYPICALLY BEATS DIGITAL (UNFORTUNATELY)

Like I said, personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE

If you spend some time reviewing that database you will discover that the versions with the highest dynamic range in the majority of instances is the Vinyl release.

.
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post #80 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Because statistically (unfortunately) this is a fact. That's why

It is due to the Loudness War. I wrote a paper on this very subject a while ago, which you can read HERE:

WHY ANALOGUE VINYL TYPICALLY BEATS DIGITAL (UNFORTUNATELY)

Like I said, personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE

If you spend some time reviewing that database you will discover that the versions with the highest dynamic range in the majority of instances is the Vinyl release.

.
This can be fixed in the recording right? Nothing to do with CD or vinyl right? It's the fault of the recording engineer, not the CD right?

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post #81 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
I find myself taking more chances with my vinyl purchases more than anything else, and I appreciate the collector aspect of that medium because I like collecting. I'm a sucker for the "limited edition" coloured vinyl, and have purchased stuff like that from bands I don't particularly like or even know anything about if it's a super limited run of a pressing.
Limited editions is something I chased all my life. Not limited for the sake of limited, just bands that pressed very limited numbers due to low demand. My "passion" was handmade sleeves. Clear vinyls I always hated, they always had poor pressings.
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post #82 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post

Personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE


.
The detection method they use called a TT meter has flaws in detecting the dynamic range of vinyl, so says a professional mastering engineer who says on an album he personally mastered for both CD and LP, which came from the exact same master file, ended up showing notably different ratings even though they should have been exactly the same:


Jump to 4m48s if you want to cut to the chase.
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post #83 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriamFromTroy View Post
The Allman Brothers Band - Eat a Peach

I must be a few years older than you. My 1st concert was the ABB on April 21st 1972 at the New Haven Arena. This is where the New Haven Blades hockey team played. It is said they were the model for the movie "Slapstick" and I testify that it was one shabby venue, but a great show.
That must have been one of the last events at the old Arena. It was long gone by my first concert: Peter Frampton June 13, 1977 at the New Haven Coliseum.

Spoiler!
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post #84 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 01:07 PM
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Better than you remember

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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Good post.
I'm 56 so grew up listening to records but dumped records for digital when CDs came out and mostly never looked back. Until the vinyl revival wave came, which helped revive my own interest in vinyl.
Rich's story is probably the closest to mine perhaps because we're similar to age. I started my youth with vinyl records and did the usual progression with overlap from vinyl to cassette to CDs to streaming. Prior to this year, I hadn't owned a turntable for more than two decades and my records have traveled unplayed in boxes to three different homes. Then out of the blue my teenage son purchased a vinyl record as a gift for a friend that had a new turntable. What do these teens know that I don't know about vinyl? For the past couple decades I've told everyone how bad vinyl records were with their snap, crack, and pop and the hideous hiss cassette tapes made. I took another listen. Come to find out in my teens and 20s I played my vinyl and tapes on low-end equipment and I'm acknowledging now that with the right equipment it all sounds a lot better than I remember. Since then, I bought a new turntable and a vintage expensive-in-it's day cassette deck and I tell you I've fallen back in love with music all over again via vinyl records.

My theory for why there is a vinyl record and cassette tape revival is that it's introducing the younger crowd to something they've never had before: Real stereo equipment and intentional music listening. You have an entire generation of people under 40 that never owned "real" stereo equipment but instead has been listening to their music through smaller smart speakers, cell phones, or headphones. Kids my son's age don't even own a CD player. No matter what the medium...the music is more likely to present itself better on a system with bigger and better hi-fi speakers. My son still claims vinyl records sound better than digital music on my stereo but I think in part this is due to the "newness" of vinyl for him. Also when you have a physical medium...you have to as part of the process stop multi-tasking to change the medium which in itself forces much more of your attention and cause to you listen more intentionally to the music.

I won't claim vinyl records and tapes are better than CDs and high-quality digital streaming servies but I will claim analog medium is a lot better than you remember. Also, some of the new vinyl records coming out are of a much better pressing material than the cheap mass produced vinyl we had in our day. New turntables are better in tracking speed and many of the present day stylus are leaps ahead in quality than most of us had for our turntables back in the day.

All I know is vinyl records have become once again my gateway to really enjoying listening to the music. Since I bought my turntable, I'm also finding not only am I listening to vinyl records but I'm also listening to my CDs once again and I'm even more appreciative what I have through my streaming services too. All this, thanks to vinyl records.
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post #85 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wookiegr View Post
That next fad is in fact cassette tapes. They are getting popular again. I'm sure 8 tracks would make a come back if the players were ready available.
"...When I was your age playlists were called "mix tapes." !!

I have many fond memories of queuing up tracks on the TT, stopping the tape just so and fading the recording level either up or down to start or end the track in question...lather, rinse repeat until the cassette was maxed to its capacity. It was a lot of work but it was also a lot of fun.

I don't have the software now to do the same thing with my MP3 libraries and my carousel CD player bit the dust years back so now I'm stuck with the likes of Spotify. Yeah, I get exposed to new things but its just not the same (or nearly as fun) as flipping through my favorites on physical media.

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means."

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Last edited by smdelaney; 06-25-2020 at 01:20 PM. Reason: typo / dyslexic
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post #86 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
. I'm a sucker for the "limited edition" coloured vinyl, and have purchased stuff like that from bands I don't particularly like or even know anything about if it's a super limited run of a pressing.
https://www.discogs.com/The-Decayes-...elease/1246651
that's my most treasured one
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post #87 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The detection method they use called a TT meter has flaws in detecting the dynamic range of vinyl, so says a professional mastering engineer who says on an album he personally mastered for both CD and LP, which came from the exact same master file, ended up showing notably different ratings even though they should have been exactly the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AE9dL5FG8

Jump to 4m48s if you want to cut to the chase.
Yes and no

Firstly, the DR Database hasn't been using the TT meter for quite a while. It uses the MAAT MKII ANALYZER

That said, the TT Meter as used in that video was correctly measuring both waveforms. So it wasn't actually flawed. The measurement ratings should not have been exactly the same, because the waveforms are not exactly the same.

What is interesting though is that the same master was used as the source with respect to both the digital release and vinyl pressing, and that this has resulted in differences in resultant waveforms accordingly.

These differences are clearly due a combination of aspects relating to the vinyl pressing and the characteristics of the vinyl format itself. However, this should come as no surprise, given it is already well known that the digital format has the potential for greater accuracy as compared with the original master, as is evident from this example.

However, it is important to note that this example is in fact not representative of the phenomenon to which I have been referring, both in my previous posts, and my article.

See here the comparative waveforms in this particular instance:



IMO these waveforms actually look to be very similar indeed, so the 'revelation' that the same master has been used for each is not actually all that surprising to be perfectly honest. Hence this is a poor example.

It does mean however, that folks should not solely rely upon dynamic range measurements, and should look to what is going on with the actual waveforms, which is what I do all the time myself personally. But whilst the difference in measured Dynamic Range can be part explained by this difference that results due to the vinyl pressing and characteristics of the vinyl itself and its playback, this will not account for the many instances wherein the difference in measured Dynamic Range is greater than in this example. For example, it is not uncommon to see instances wherein the digital release has a measured Dynamic Range of 4-6 whereas the Vinyl is 12-14+.

This is what I am talking about... See the difference in waveforms between these two releases of the same music album, in this example being ABBA's The Visitors:





Here it is very obvious that different masters have been used, unlike with respect to the example in that Youtube video wherein it's pretty obvious that the same master has been used for both. In the 1982 release you can see that the full dynamic range has been retained intact. In the 2012 'remaster' CD release you can see that this has fallen foul of the Loudness War mastering phenomenon to which I have been and am referring. The gain has been over-amplifed and compression applied, and if you were to zoom in on the waveform you will see that there is horrendous amounts of clipping.

Here is another example wherein I have zoomed in on the waveform for you that shows what I am referring to here:



This phenomenon will not occur with Vinyl unless is it the more recent Vinyl releases where in some instances the same abysmal digital master that has been used for the digital release has been used for the Vinyl pressing as well. In which case you won't be seeing the same extent of Dynamic Range difference in the measurements and the resultant waveform will look FUBAR in BOTH instances.

Ultimately, it's not the format that really matters here it's how good (or bad) is the mastering

.

Last edited by ARROW-AV; 06-25-2020 at 01:43 PM.
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post #88 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Yes and no

Firstly, the DR Database hasn't been using the TT meter for quite a while. It uses the MAAT MKII ANALYZER
So they admit their original method was flawed and needed to be replaced. Good to know.
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post #89 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
These differences are clearly due a combination of aspects relating to the vinyl pressing and the characteristics of the vinyl format itself.
They are called "flaws".
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post #90 of 216 Old 06-25-2020, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
This can be fixed in the recording right? Nothing to do with CD or vinyl right? It's the fault of the recording engineer, not the CD right?
Absolutely correct

The fact of the matter is that CD and other digital formats are technologically superior in more ways than one as compared with vinyl as an audio format.

Variances in mastering competance aside, it is solely to do with the Loudness War mastering which is carried out such that the playback volume is consistently loud when played back via mobile devices. Hence it's not actually done by mistake. It's deliberate.

The problem is that when played by via HIFI systems the audio sounds like ass as a result.

Hence the primary reason why Vinyl often sounds better is because the Vinyl release does indeed have a completely different master than the Digital format release, wherein the latter has been Loudness War mastered and the former has not. In instances wherein the same master has been used for both Digital and Vinyl and if the mastering has been done optimally and not a Loudness War type mastering, then the Digital release will be superior. Counterwise, in the (many) instances wherein the Vinyl release uses a different master that has been mastered optimally and the Digital release has been Loudness War mastered, then the Vinyl release will be superior. It's as simple as that.

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