Vinyl vs CD - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 187Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 225 Old 06-22-2020, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Vinyl vs CD

I was reading another post about a member getting a stereo setup and wondering about getting a turntable and didn't want to hijack his thread so I started this one.

I put together a quick list of my pros and cons of both vinyl and CD coming from a 68 yr old (me). Feel free to add to my lists and give me your thoughts, too.


I grew up in the vinyl era. To give you an idea of when this was, I was in my early rock’n’roll years and I saw Black Sabbath in concert at the Forum in L.A. when they were just the warm-up group for the main act (Grand Funk Railroad). That was circa 1971. I was 19 and in the Marines stationed in California at the time and shortly thereafter I was sent overseas for a year. While in Vietnam, I bought my first decent stereo setup. It included a Sansui SR-4050C turntable paired with a Sansui Eight receiver. I probably had about 150 LP’s during the following years before CDs arrived and that Sansui turntable had countless hours of play time.



So, I grew up with a love of vinyl but walked away from it shortly after CDs came out. As I sit here thinking about, there were many pros and cons to vinyl just like there is for CDs and streaming.

For vinyl the pros for me are:

1. Vinyl always sounded very good to me even with my average Sansui SP-2500 speakers. Had lots of album parties at my house and those speakers did their job just fine. I had 4 of them and still have 2 that I keep for the memories but seldom bring out to use anymore. I recapped all of them about 5 yrs ago and then gave the other two to a friend who had even worse speakers.

2. You didn’t need a magnifying glass to read the inside of the album covers. CDs print size is just too small and I don’t even bother trying to read much on any CD albums. That is one thing I really miss about full-size albums.

3. Being such a pain to skip songs on a turntable made me to listen to a lot of album tracks that with CD, I would simple skip over. Some of those songs really grew on me over time and became favorites to listen to.

Cons:

1. Skipping songs was a pain (but see above). You had to get up, walk over to the turntable (usually having to turn on a light), lift the tone arm and then try to place the stylus down between tracks. I did not skip songs on vinyl very often unless I really disliked a particular song.

2. Snap, crackle, pop! Caring for and constantly cleaning vinyl is far more involved than CDs. Turntables essentially are dragging a sharpened rock through grooves in a plastic disc and any debris or scratches, warps, etc. made themselves known. I had loaned out enough vinyl recordings in my younger days that came back scratched to Hell and back that I used to wonder if my buddies used them as buffing pads to clean their floors! I am sure some of you will say you don’t have this issue but my system was used for LOTS of listening parties involving beer and pot back in those days and our vinyl albums were not treated like holy relics. I personally tried to take decent care of my albums but over time '**** happens'.

3. EXPENSIVE! Had buddies who paid a lot more for a stylus and cartridge for a turntable than my entire turntable cost and even more than most of the dedicated CD players that I bought. Some of their turntables cost almost as much as my entire stereo system that included a Teac reel-to-reel tape deck. I think my entire first stereo in 1972 dollars cost about $1,300. That was a lot of money for a corporal in the Marines.

4. Vinyl wears out eventually. Can’t drag a rock through a plastic groove without some wear and tear.

5. Turntables can require a lot of adjusting from time to time. Some people enjoy that and when I was younger it appealed to me. Not any more.

CD pros and cons that can probably also apply to streaming:

Pros:

1. Essentially they do not wear out like vinyl. The material the CD is made from may eventually age...but repeated playing doesn’t cause any harm as far as I know. The CDs that I own will probably be around a lot longer than I will be.

2. Much higher dynamic range than vinyl ‘if’ properly mastered.

3. Smaller and easier to store in less space.

4. Easier to keep clean although I did have some loaned to a buddy that came back with fingerprints of what looked like peanut butter all over a couple of them. I figured he must’ve gotten stoned and got the munchies while listening to them! LOL Easy enough to clean them and at least they were not scratched.

5. Remote controls. At 68, I am far less inclined to keep getting up out of my comfortable chair to skip songs, etc.

6. I can play my CDs on an inexpensive blu-ray player that I already own and they sound just fine to my older ears. My last dedicated CD player died about 12 yrs ago and I started using a DVD player for playback until I upgraded to a blu-ray player. I don’t think I would appreciate a $1000+ CD player even if I had the disposable income to buy one.

Cons:

1. The LOUDNESS WARS. Some CDs really do sound terrible. I often wonder if the engineers master them for people who listen via crappy earbuds on their cell phones as that is probably a larger market than people with home stereos these days. Vinyl may well have had some poorly mastered albums, too, but it was less apparent to me in my younger days. But some poorly mastered CDs really sound harsh to me.

2. Skipping tracks is too easy. I am probably missing a lot of good songs because I listen to it for 15-20 seconds and judge it right away and decide to skip it. Skipping songs was less common for me with vinyl.

3. I used to really enjoy reading the inside of album covers in my vinyl days. With CDs, I hardly even give the insert pages a glance.

I am sure I could think of a few more pros and cons of each if I gave it more thought but those seem to be the major ones that came to mind right away.

I will say that I don’t seem enjoy music as much in the digital era as I did back during my vinyl days. That is probably more to do with old age than the change in technology as I don’t think going back to vinyl would be an improvement for me. I still love a lot of my old favorite groups from the 70’s but I find that I cannot listen to them for hours and hours on end like I could when I was in my late teens to mid-30’s.

As for vinyl, I am really glad that I lived through that era and have many wonderful memories of great times listening to albums for hours with buddies. But overall, I don’t miss it enough to want to go back to it. Even with those long-time buddies, we never sit around listening to music together like we did when we were younger and that really is a shame. I think that digital technology is far superior to vinyl but digital is too often not mastered to take advantage of that. It SHOULD always be better but often it is not.
Frostyboy115 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 225 Old 06-22-2020, 08:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
grasshoppers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: aridzona
Posts: 3,796
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 976 Post(s)
Liked: 724
Thanks for the great post!! Enjoyed the read. You've got about 5 years on me...I never
Got into vinyl--8-tracks/cassettes then CD's But, I've got a close friend
In his 50's who only does Vinyl, He's got hundreds of them.

I agree on the skipping of tracks on CD's (1st 20 secs-guilty!)
Also, the remote control from the easy chair. LOL
Frostyboy115 likes this.

(Main)-Marantz 6012*Outlaw Audio M2200*Rythmik F12 subs*Paradigm Signature S6,C1,S1
******Harman Kardon DMC1000 (music)-Assassin HTPC (movies).
(Bedroom)-Marantz SR5003*Paradigm Studio 40,SE Center,SE One*SVS SB-2000 subs*Sony S6200
(Music room)-Outlaw Audio RR2150*Sierra Two ribbon speakers*Rythmik L12 sub*Yamaha CDR-HD1500
grasshoppers is offline  
post #3 of 225 Old 06-22-2020, 08:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RickD1225's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked: 3449
I’m in your same age group +1 yr. I hadn’t had a TT for several years (decades?), but I kept my old albums, most from the 60s and 70s. Last year I Finally bought a new TT and broke out all the old albums. I bought a “Spin Clean” and washed all my albums, a few hundred. I was shocked how great they sound. I was pretty anal about not touching the surface, using a cleaning brush prior to playing them back then. Many of these albums have no clicks or pops which is a standard complaint. What they do have is fantastic warm sound. I got hooked again. I have probably bought 50-75 more albums in the past few months. One reason is I started to get into Jazz ( I was big on rock in the early days). Jazz on vinyl is a treat. In addition to washing them all, all Albums got new inner and outer sleeves. The MoFi inner sleeves keep the albums from picking up static. New Albums aren't inexpensive, especially the “audiophile” labels, but the sound is worth it. I also buy CDs and listen to them often, but I still prefer vinyl. Luckily these days I can afford to buy what I want. Recently I bought Elvis 24 Karat Hits on 45 RPM vinyl, 3 record set for $75. Zero groove noise or spurious sounds, just pure Elvis. I think there is a reason for both types of media. I can also download the CDs into my cars. I am assuming you don’t still have any of your old albums. CDs certainly are cheaper, especially from the used market and like you say they don’t wear out easily, you have to abuse them for it to affect the sound/playability. I think you would really enjoy vinyl, but it is an investment.
twitch54 and Frostyboy115 like this.

Spoiler!
RickD1225 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 225 Old 06-22-2020, 09:06 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 15,151
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6780 Post(s)
Liked: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostyboy115 View Post
Cons:

...

2. Skipping tracks is too easy. I am probably missing a lot of good songs because I listen to it for 15-20 seconds and judge it right away and decide to skip it. Skipping songs was less common for me with vinyl.

Pro tip:
There's a quick easy mod to make this flaw with CD players go away and it requires no soldering skills. Simply flip the remote over, open the battery compartment, and remove one of the batteries. Replace the cover.
BINGO! Now changing tracks will similarly force you to walk over to your machine to do so.
m. zillch is offline  
post #5 of 225 Old 06-22-2020, 09:48 PM
Member
 
Dfndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Frosty boy. Great post. Brought back memories. Where those Samsun speakers the beautiful wood ones with the lattice wool grills? A lot of those cane to US from PX’s in VN. I thought the receivers were Sansui 5000’s.
Dfndr is offline  
post #6 of 225 Old 06-22-2020, 09:49 PM
Member
 
Dfndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Speakers were Sansui, not Samsun. Damn autocorrect!
Frostyboy115 likes this.
Dfndr is offline  
post #7 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 01:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
glangford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,529
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Liked: 777
Frosty boy, Good post! I posted in a similar discussion just a day or two ago.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2...l#post59834466

I gave up on vinyl after CDs came out as well. Never looked back.
markmon1, alan0354 and Will P like this.

Supercharged Song Towers, Oppo BDP-203, Anthem MRX-520, LG B6 OLED
Headphone Rig: Oppo BDP-95, Burson Audio Soloist MKII Headphone amp/ Sennheiser HD800S, Sennheiser HD650
glangford is offline  
post #8 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 07:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
AlexLac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostyboy115 View Post
I was reading another post about a member getting a stereo setup and wondering about getting a turntable and didn't want to hijack his thread so I started this one.
Great post!
You echo my thoughts pretty much 1:1. I always thought if CDs would ship in a vinyl sleeve that would have been the perfect solution!
I'm an albums person so never skip tracks. Like you said it's how great gems grow on you that don't always pop on first hearing.
CDs often had more extensive sleeve notes than vinyls due to the booklet format.
dfa973 likes this.
AlexLac is offline  
post #9 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 08:21 AM
Advanced Member
 
AlexLac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostyboy115 View Post
3. EXPENSIVE! Had buddies who paid a lot more for a stylus and cartridge for a turntable than my entire turntable cost and even more than most of the dedicated CD players that I bought. Some of their turntables cost almost as much as my entire stereo system that included a Teac reel-to-reel tape deck. I think my entire first stereo in 1972 dollars cost about $1,300. That was a lot of money for a corporal in the Marines.
Vinyl was always something in demand among purists and analog lovers, usually an audience who isn't afraid to pay extra. Hipsters discovering it some years ago brought a whole new younger audience. Suddenly it's hip again...at least until the next fad.
This also resurrected the dying physical retail music business.
AlexLac is offline  
post #10 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 08:33 AM
Member
 
J Devil 666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Vinyl, 45 minutes (a producer/band would pick what they thought were the best of what was written for a cohesive release)
CD, 80 minutes (a band/producer can put out more but not always good songs...lol)


I like both but prefer vinyl and I don't download/stream or whatever it's called, Heck I still listen to FM radio stations.



But hey, I say listen to what ya got & enjoy what ya got! It's the music that drives us!
twitch54, SuperFist and leecreek like this.

State of Confusion
J Devil 666 is offline  
post #11 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 08:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLac View Post
Vinyl was always something in demand among purists and analog lovers, usually an audience who isn't afraid to pay extra. Hipsters discovering it some years ago brought a whole new younger audience. Suddenly it's hip again...at least until the next fad.
This also resurrected the dying physical retail music business.
That next fad is in fact cassette tapes. They are getting popular again. I'm sure 8 tracks would make a come back if the players were ready available.
wookiegr is online now  
post #12 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 08:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
AlexLac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Devil 666 View Post
Vinyl, 45 minutes (a producer/band would pick what they thought were the best of what was written for a cohesive release)
CD, 80 minutes (a band/producer can put out more but not always good songs...lol)


I like both but prefer vinyl and I don't download/stream or whatever it's called, Heck I still listen to FM radio stations.



But hey, I say listen to what ya got & enjoy what ya got! It's the music that drives us!
Well, there is no shortage of double albums, but for sure CDs are lot more often longer and not edited down enough. I recall quite a often people felt somewhat ripped off when a CD was just 40 minutes.


I don't do streaming either' mostly cause I have enough physical content to last for the next two life cycles. I do sometimes play off youtube if I want to listen to something on the spot.
J Devil 666 likes this.
AlexLac is offline  
post #13 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 08:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
AlexLac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by wookiegr View Post
That next fad is in fact cassette tapes. They are getting popular again. I'm sure 8 tracks would make a come back if the players were ready available.
Ha so true.
Yes, tape revival is here too, but I don't think it can take off as much as vinyl has, feels too niche to me. It wasn't a good format even when it was massively produced.
My vote is to bring back VHS. Who can say no to warm analog video at a whopping 320x240 resolution?
AlexLac is offline  
post #14 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 09:49 AM
Member
 
teetertotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Janesville, WI
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 45
I never was much of vinyl person going back to the early 60's. It was always the radio stations and the big fad was installing a reverb system to the car radio. I had a roommate that was into Vinyl and really anal on the amount of grams applied to Vinyl grooves. I think it around 2-3 grams, if I recall. I had a reel to reel, Akai, back then, that I would record some of his Vinyl. Moving along, cassette was a real game changer for me, and did my own select recording of songs I liked. Then when Directv came along in 90 or 91, I would run the VCR for 2 hours on their select music channels and transfer the songs I liked, onto the Harmon Kardon Cassette recorder.

Boy, when CD's came into being and having the internet, I got my selected music from the internet and still do today. I have selected music from the late 50's 60's, through each years pop hits, to day. All on CD's and Flash Drive.

Vinyl was never for me, due to care/handling. It was easy to toss cassettes around and with CD's, pretty much scratch resistant and are in cases. Having only select music to listen to without the unwonted, is music to my ear.

TV: TCL 55" 4K UHD HDR w ROKU
DENON AVR-S910W, 7.2, HDMI 2.0a, 4K UHD HDR, Upscaling, Atmos, Wi-Fi, etc. [2016]
KLIPSCH: L/R: R-51M - Ctr: RP-400C - Sub: R-100SW - POLK S-20 Surround
SPKR Wire:Windy City Wire - 16ga, 2 Cond, Twisted Pair, Shielded, Jacketed [USA]
HDMI: VANCO - 4K, 18Gbps, 2.0b, Certified --- [AT&T - Directv Sat. & DSL 100Mbps]
teetertotter is offline  
post #15 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 12:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ryan Statz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked: 1168
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Pro tip:
There's a quick easy mod to make this flaw with CD players go away and it requires no soldering skills. Simply flip the remote over, open the battery compartment, and remove one of the batteries. Replace the cover.
BINGO! Now changing tracks will similarly force you to walk over to your machine to do so.
cheeky :P

Home Theatre: Marantz SR6014 | KEF Q750 | KEF Q650c | KEF Q150 | HSU ULS-15 MK2 | Sony XBR55X900E | PS4 Pro | Xbox One S | Nintendo Switch

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Fluance RT85 | Ortofon 2M Blue | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | Neat Motive 3
Ryan Statz is online now  
post #16 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 01:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ryan Statz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked: 1168
Quote:
Originally Posted by wookiegr View Post
That next fad is in fact cassette tapes.
A format I truly wished never came back.

My dedicated set up can do vinyl, CD, and digital files (though I do think I truly need a proper network player that I can run files from a HDD), but I simply don't have the room or interest to revisit cassette (at least not right now). I also have no idea on the location of my old cassette tapes.

Home Theatre: Marantz SR6014 | KEF Q750 | KEF Q650c | KEF Q150 | HSU ULS-15 MK2 | Sony XBR55X900E | PS4 Pro | Xbox One S | Nintendo Switch

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Fluance RT85 | Ortofon 2M Blue | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | Neat Motive 3
Ryan Statz is online now  
post #17 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 01:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 15,151
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6780 Post(s)
Liked: 4997
On a more serious note I'm sometimes reluctant to jump around on tracks on vinyl because diamonds are rock hard, markedly harder than vinyl plastic. When you drop a needle (that's what us old people call the stylus) onto the playing surface if you don't successfully strike the rills (the gaps between songs) and instead strike the playing surface you potentially may make a tiny little ding in the groove wall which potentially may create a very faint "tick" noise on future playbacks.
SuperFist and Frostyboy115 like this.
m. zillch is offline  
post #18 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 02:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ryan Statz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked: 1168
And I guess to be on topic - There's definitely a different sound to vinyl vs. CD, but I am not married to either format. I really like vinyl, and I think some music does benefit from that format, but there's nothing like the convenience of CD. There's so much more work involved with vinyl, and a lot of the sound is determined by the stylus, phono pre-amp, etc... less so with CDs, I think (where IMO it's influenced just on the amplifier/speakers).

My only real annoyance with vinyl right now is when the new vinyl doesn't come with a digital download. At least with CDs you can import them for an instant digital copy to listen to on the go.
Will P likes this.

Home Theatre: Marantz SR6014 | KEF Q750 | KEF Q650c | KEF Q150 | HSU ULS-15 MK2 | Sony XBR55X900E | PS4 Pro | Xbox One S | Nintendo Switch

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Fluance RT85 | Ortofon 2M Blue | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | Neat Motive 3
Ryan Statz is online now  
post #19 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 02:03 PM
Member
 
PriamFromTroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Greater New Haven. CT area
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 30
As a member of the old fogies generation I was happy to switch to CDs, no more stylus cleaner and disk washer. I lived in apartments in old buildings and there are generations of dust and every bit heads strait to my albums. What is one thing you can do with a double album and not with a CD?

Spoiler!
RagtopFE and J Devil 666 like this.
PriamFromTroy is offline  
post #20 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 02:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
AlexLac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 513
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriamFromTroy View Post
What is one thing you can do with a double album and not with a CD?
Gatefold sleeve?
AlexLac is offline  
post #21 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfndr View Post
Frosty boy. Great post. Brought back memories. Where those Samsun speakers the beautiful wood ones with the lattice wool grills? A lot of those cane to US from PX’s in VN. I thought the receivers were Sansui 5000’s.
Yes, they look like this photo. Mine have some 'war wounds' on the cabinets from moving (9 different houses in my lifetime) but I mentioned that I did recap the crossovers and that seemed to improve the sound. Electrolytic caps were over 40 yrs old when I changed them out so it was probably time. I think I paid $79 each for the speakers and that included free shipping to my parents' house (all my stuff was shipped for free and I never saw it outside of showrooms near my former base in Okinawa until I got home from Vietnam)

Of all the equipment that I bought in Vietnam (from the PACEX catalog), the things I absolutely used the most was the turntable, receiver and speakers. I had maybe 150 albums and a buddy, who had a lesser stereo system, had over 500 albums. We did most of our listening session with his albums on my system. It was at least a once a week get together with 3 other friends and that went on for many years until I got married.

Sansui SR4050C was a really nice turntable. I especially liked that it lowered the stylus very slowly when playing albums and then lifted it and stopped the unit at the end of play. Still had to return the tone arm manually to its resting mount but that was fine. Never really cared for most fully automatic ones. It vanished with a few of my albums 20 or so years ago when girlfriend and I split and she disappeared with it.

The Sansui Eight receiver was a wonderful one. I kept that for a good 13 or 14 years before I sold it (very cheaply). I had LOTS of hours on that, mostly playing vinyl but FM radio, too.

Teac A4010GSL reel-to-reel was one item that I really thought I would use until it died but it turned out that didn't get into reel-to-reel as much as I had thought. It had very few hours on it when I gave it to my (then) brother-in-law maybe 10 yrs after I had bought it.

I had a Sansui reverb that I didn't use much (it did help on some live albums by adding just a tiny bit of reverb). Also a JVC SEA100 (equalizer) that I had connected all the time but it was mostly a 'set it and forget it' add-on piece of gear. Lastly, I had a Sony top-loading cassette deck. I don't remember the model of it but if you ever watch the Charles Bronson movie The Mechanic, he is using the same cassette deck in one of the scenes! LOL I used it more than the Teac reel-to-reel because I had a cassette player in my car but I didn't use it all that often, either.

I'd love to have the receiver and turntable back again although I am sure the receiver would need some recapping/restoration work via a good tech. I had a high school buddy who was one of the lead audio techs for Heathkit which was located in our hometown in Michigan and he could fix just about anything you needed fixed (and for me, it was free labor! LOL). I did aviation electronics in the Marines but my buddy forgot more about electronics than I ever knew. He ate, drank and slept electronics and had a full test bench with all the necessary test equipment at his house. Sadly, he is no longer with us. Died of a heart attack at the too young age of 46. It is just easier to buy newer stuff now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sansui sp-2500.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	8.7 KB
ID:	2747734   Click image for larger version

Name:	sansui_sr-4050c_turntable.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	96.6 KB
ID:	2747736   Click image for larger version

Name:	Sansui Eight.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	6.8 KB
ID:	2747738   Click image for larger version

Name:	teac_a-4010gsl_stereo_tape_deck.jpg
Views:	296
Size:	117.2 KB
ID:	2747740  
Frostyboy115 is offline  
post #22 of 225 Old 06-23-2020, 05:13 PM
Member
 
CurtP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I never really got into vinyl in my youth although I did have some. I was much more into cassettes, then CDs and finally streaming. In the last couple years I've grown to hate music - even the stuff I listened to in my youth. Still like live music, so I couldn't figure out why. Finally had an ah-ha moment realizing streaming sounds terrible. A culmination of compression, bad processing and God-awful wireless headphones.

I'm now on a new journey to discover music again. Bought a turntable, cabled up the analog side of the Oppo, moved some speakers around and have started looking at Nakamichi cassette decks. It's becoming fun again.
Frostyboy115 and AlexLac like this.
CurtP is offline  
post #23 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 12:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Mike in NC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Lightbulb Wow and Flutter!

The big con of LPs for me was their pitch instability, which came from several sources.

  • Warped LPs usually induce wow.
  • The motors of turntables are not always precisely on speed, nor do they always maintain a precisely constant speed (idler rollers and/or belts can contribute to this).
  • Many LP center holes are in fact slightly off center, which causes wow. Nakamichi produced a self-centering turntable to correct for this.
  • Analog tape itself was not always perfectly speed-stable, especially if the recorder wasn't in perfect order. While the major labels didn't suffer from this very much, releases on small labels or older recordings sometimes exhibit pitch wobble.

All of that is most noticeable on an instrument with fixed and stable pitches, like piano.


For me, the HUGE advantage of CD was (and is) that things finally are in tune. And they are so on a cheap player as well as on an expensive one.

Mike (Portland, Oregon)
Spoiler!
Mike in NC is online now  
post #24 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 12:26 AM
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 3,185
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2287 Post(s)
Liked: 610
Like I said many times already, I dumped my TT in the garbage can when I got my first CD player and listen to it, that was in very early 90s, I think it's 1991. Then I gave my LP collection to my stepson. He said he still have some of the LP like Michael Jackson, George Benson.

There's just no comparison in the sound between CD and LP, CD is just so much better, more dynamic range........Everything is better. TT has a unique sound that is more compressed, reminds me of taking off the "Loudness" in the old receivers. Like everything are kind of flat sounding. It does remind me of the good old days' sound from the 60s and 70s. But this is 2020!!! I just don't believe in reminiscing the good old days. It helps CD players are so so much cheaper and no need to have special preamp for the magnetic cartridge. My CD player is an old OPPO DVD player without Blu Ray. I just love people dumping a perfectly good player just because something new comes out and got to have the latest and greatest. I got the OPPO for $60 including shipping. I like it so much I bought a second one as back up.

BTW, don't they have new digital music that can put CD quality in shame now? I have not even been following the trend.

One thing that is even more important, can you get all the new musics on LP? Or you just stuck with the songs from the good old days also. I thought I saw in Fry's they had a section of LP, but it's very limited.
Lonewolf7002 likes this.

Last edited by alan0354; 06-24-2020 at 12:35 AM.
alan0354 is offline  
post #25 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 12:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,738
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2035 Post(s)
Liked: 1752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
The big con of LPs for me was their pitch instability, which came from several sources.

  • Warped LPs usually induce wow.
  • The motors of turntables are not always precisely on speed, nor do they always maintain a precisely constant speed (idler rollers and/or belts can contribute to this).
  • Many LP center holes are in fact slightly off center, which causes wow. Nakamichi produced a self-centering turntable to correct for this.
  • Analog tape itself was not always perfectly speed-stable, especially if the recorder wasn't in perfect order. While the major labels didn't suffer from this very much, releases on small labels or older recordings sometimes exhibit pitch wobble.

All of that is most noticeable on an instrument with fixed and stable pitches, like piano.
Try living with a concert grade pianist with perfect pitch. No matter how I modified my Gyrodec, she hated it for that reason (all BDs actually) but she loved my SP10.

“You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.” Chuck Palahniuk
A9X-308 is offline  
post #26 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 12:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
A9X-308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,738
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2035 Post(s)
Liked: 1752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostyboy115 View Post
2. You didn’t need a magnifying glass to read the inside of the album covers. CDs print size is just too small and I don’t even bother trying to read much on any CD albums. That is one thing I really miss about full-size albums.

3. Smaller and easier to store in less space.
My server is the size of two PC tower cabinets, and holds, currently, 150TB, mainly all my BD and DVDs, but also 300 or so CDs. I can view all the artwork on the 55" and it's much easier than a CD cover to read. When I move back to my home soon, I'll rip my several thousand LPs to the server too at 24/96.
RagtopFE and Frostyboy115 like this.

“You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.” Chuck Palahniuk
A9X-308 is offline  
post #27 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 05:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SmittyJS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern U.S.
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 484 Post(s)
Liked: 705
I grew up with vinyl also. Dumped them for CDs in the early 90's. Now have dumped CDs (just sold a big chunk to Decluttr) for streaming and rips. I don't see any advantage to vinyl or CD. Just the snap crackle, pop was and is enough to kill vinyl for me. Then the storage issues of both. And for my perfectionist side, vinyl is also not as accurate as digital (hope I didn't just open a can of worms).

Neither vinyl or CD is as convenient as streaming, which I do wirelessly from an unobtrusive 10" laptop from my recliner, and voice-controlled through Alexa. My whole collection is on a 512GB flash drive smaller than the size of my pinkie plugged into the laptop. It will hold close to 1,000 albums. Then I have access to 60 million songs via Amazon Music HD.

If you can find them (there are sites, such as MusicBrainz), you can also store liner notes using tags. Although I don't because I lost interest in liner notes and album art a long time ago.

I may be an outlier. Even though I'm getting older, as a computer programmer who uses the latest technology, I've never been nostalgic or resistant to change from a technology perspective. Change is a constant in my field. As far as I'm concerned, almost everything new from a technology perspective is an improvement in convenience. I play my music through a computer (or voice), my guitar through a computer and have an Alexa in almost every room of my house. The good old days were not this good.
Mike in NC and Lonewolf7002 like this.
SmittyJS is offline  
post #28 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 10:17 AM
 
alan0354's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 3,185
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2287 Post(s)
Liked: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
I grew up with vinyl also. Dumped them for CDs in the early 90's. Now have dumped CDs (just sold a big chunk to Decluttr) for streaming and rips.........................................

Ha ha ha...................You determine to make me feel old!!! I am still stuck on CD, never get to the newer ones.

I am very familiar with both pure analog signal and DAC signal, I designed both type of circuits and have intimate knowledge. There is no reason DAC signal is inferior, in fact, the resolution can easily be improved. Remember 16bits 44.1KHz DAC and ADC was NOT state of the arts even 30 years ago!!! That's the reason all the DAC chips people arguing about here are all UNDER $10 and easily available. If it needs to be, one can easily go to 20bits 192KHz to even get finer resolution. I would go higher speed to 192KHz instead of staying at 44.1KHz. But what do I know, experts stay with 16/44.1KHz, where it's NOT much more expensive to go faster and more bits.
alan0354 is offline  
post #29 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 10:59 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 15,151
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6780 Post(s)
Liked: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in NC View Post
The big con of LPs for me was their pitch instability, which came from several sources.

  • Warped LPs usually induce wow.
  • The motors of turntables are not always precisely on speed, nor do they always maintain a precisely constant speed (idler rollers and/or belts can contribute to this).
  • Many LP center holes are in fact slightly off center, which causes wow. Nakamichi produced a self-centering turntable to correct for this.
  • Analog tape itself was not always perfectly speed-stable, especially if the recorder wasn't in perfect order. While the major labels didn't suffer from this very much, releases on small labels or older recordings sometimes exhibit pitch wobble.

All of that is most noticeable on an instrument with fixed and stable pitches, like piano.


For me, the HUGE advantage of CD was (and is) that things finally are in tune. And they are so on a cheap player as well as on an expensive one.
Great post, and I totally agree, but you missed two potential sources of wow and flutter:

  • The cutting lathe which rotated during the production of the master lacquer itself has wow and flutter
  • Both the cutting lathe rotation and our turntables' rotation may be momentarily slowed slightly due to a heavily recorded passage which suddenly introduces a huge increase it the stylus (or cutter's) drag.*

Another important point to consider is that wow and flutter is cumulative, so theoretically even if:

- a master analog tape has no audible wow and flutter,
- nor the cutting lathe,
- nor the audiophile pressing LP record we buy (due to warps/off center spindle hole, like you mentioned),
- nor our turntable even when playing a sudden, heavily modulated groove,

we may still hear wow and flutter because the sum of all of them together does reach the level of audibility.


*This is why some high end turntables use massive platters, some even exceeding 70 pounds. Like Newton said: "An object in motion tends to stay in motion, especially if it is frickin heavy."
Mike in NC likes this.

Last edited by m. zillch; 06-24-2020 at 11:15 AM.
m. zillch is offline  
post #30 of 225 Old 06-24-2020, 11:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Mike in NC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 207
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
BTW, don't they have new digital music that can put CD quality in shame now?

One thing that is even more important, can you get all the new musics on LP? Or you just stuck with the songs from the good old days also.
About 10% of my music library is high resolution (24 bits). I've wowed friends with great CDs, and I own some terrible HR releases. To me, sound quality comes far more from good recording, mixing, and mastering practices than from higher resolution in the files sold. Home DACs have improved a lot over time, and recording practices, too (over-compression of pop music being an exception).

It is a fact that the catalog on LP is limited. Of what's happening in music now -- whether pop, jazz, or classical -- only a small subset is available on LP. To some, it doesn't matter, but does to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
Try living with a concert grade pianist with perfect pitch. No matter how I modified my Gyrodec, she hated it for that reason (all BDs actually) but she loved my SP10.
The Technics? It should be on my list, then, if I ever buy a TT again.
markmon1 likes this.

Mike (Portland, Oregon)
Spoiler!
Mike in NC is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2-Channel Audio

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off