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post #9121 of 9224 Old 03-01-2019, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Disc sales have been dropping for years. A decade ago the media was claiming that CD's would be extinct way before now. 4k BD’s will continue to be a niche market for the most discerning viewers, and those who want to see the latest releases for the best bang for the buck, will still need to go to replicated formats. As long as it is still profitable, physical media and the devices that play them will continue to be sold.

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post #9122 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 06:32 AM
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Keeps pointing out the trend but not what matters more. $48M sold of anything in a week is a lot. Especially when the hard work is already done and pressing and distribution remains.
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post #9123 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 07:22 AM
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It's a sad commentary, yet should not come as a surprise .. I've stated for years that's where the Industry would lead, eventually ..

https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-en...09457836368706
I posted a thread about this about 2 weeks ago:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/184-v...ming-soon.html
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post #9124 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 08:44 AM
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Keeps pointing out the trend but not what matters more. $48M sold of anything in a week is a lot. Especially when the hard work is already done and pressing and distribution remains.
It also shows the BD sales are not losing as much ground as DVD's. Could it be that more consumers are finding that DVD doesn't offer the best picture quality?


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post #9125 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 10:32 AM
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For some odd reason, I get the impression some think I am defending the trend .. that could not be more from the truth .. I'm simply pointing out the facts .. and, as I've stated, I don't like it anymore than anyone else does .. but, it is what it is, simple as that ..

Increased Bandwidth and the advent of 5G will accelerate the issue (no pun intended) .. combined with lower On Demand per title costs .. another prediction I made some years ago was, when streamers can get the cost of an On Demand new release title down to under $2.00, physical media will suffer dramatically, more so than it has already ..

I'm 74, so it may not happen in my lifetime, but the day will come at some point, where all physical media is supplanted .. there may or may not be, at that point, a small base of buyers still willing to buy a disk ..

This whole issue is Generational Change and it's happening as we speak ..
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post #9126 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 10:51 AM
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For some odd reason, I get the impression some think I am defending the trend .. that could not be more from the truth .. I'm simply pointing out the facts .. and, as I've stated, I don't like it anymore than anyone else does .. but, it is what it is, simple as that ..

Increased Bandwidth and the advent of 5G will accelerate the issue (no pun intended) .. combined with lower On Demand per title costs .. another prediction I made some years ago was, when streamers can get the cost of an On Demand new release title down to under $2.00, physical media will suffer dramatically, more so than it has already ..

I'm 74, so it may not happen in my lifetime, but the day will come at some point, where all physical media is supplanted .. there may or may not be, at that point, a small base of buyers still willing to buy a disk ..

This whole issue is Generational Change and it's happening as we speak ..

I agree that the march of streaming delivery to supplant physical media is bound to continue. Not only will prices get lower, advancing technology will cause the video and audio quality of streamed material to continue to get better too. Of course, when, if ever, the video and audio quality of streamed material gets to be as good as that of physical media is anybody's guess.

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post #9127 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 10:57 AM
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I agree that the march of streaming delivery to supplant physical media is bound to continue. Not only will prices get lower, advancing technology will cause the video and audio quality of streamed material to continue to get better too. Of course, when, if ever, the video and audio quality of streamed material gets to be as good as that of physical media is anybody's guess.
And that's a key point, at least for many of us. We want the best possible video and audio quality, and at this time that means physical media. Of course for me, I take the media and rip it to my media server, but I still get the same audio and video that came on the media. Online streaming can't match that yet, especially the audio.
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post #9128 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
there may or may not be, at that point, a small base of buyers still willing to buy a disk ..

This whole issue is Generational Change and it's happening as we speak ..
Disc will be here as long as there are folks that wants the best source available and are willing to pay for it. As of now there are enough folks that want large screens and immersive sound to support a large number of video projector models and AVP's. Most of this stuff is not available at the box stores* but many seem to know where these items can be procured. AVP info here, video projector news here.

Disc sales are sliding because there are not enough new, desirable titles available and saturation. The younger set does not seem to care about ownership so that will hurt sales as well. It appears the major focus now days is on SVOD with Apple, Disney and others jumping on the bandwagon. UV will soon be history, I expect MA to follow.

*Best Buy Magnolia Design Center stores do have a limited selection of high end equipment, select locations here.
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post #9129 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 11:21 AM
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Not only will prices get lower, advancing technology will cause the video and audio quality of streamed material to continue to get better too.
Where did you get the pricing info from? I would like to see the data.

Streaming video (H.264 & H.265) and audio (DD+) quality has essentially remained the same for about five years now. Decoders are fixed (hardwired), the goal for encoders is to reduce data rates with minimal reduction in video quality. This is most obvious with Netflix, their HD stuff used to average 5.8 to 7 Mbps, now many run 4.2 Mbps, their UHD used to be 16 Mbps and now it is 15.2 Mbps. VUDU and Amazon are even less.
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post #9130 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 11:28 AM
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I've been a Home Theater proponent and user since well before the term was even coined .. and, I have attempted, to maintain as close to highest quality as I could afford over the years .. I have also worked within the Sound Industry, so not only is Video important to me, but SQ as well ..

We as self professed aficionados, clearly gathered on AVS because of that shared way of life and the importance to us, of the best A/V experience possible .. I don't think we would be here if it were not for that shared interest ..

If the rest of Society shared our Passion, the trajectory of our shared interest would likely be much different than it currently seems to be evolving to ..
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post #9131 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
The younger set does not seem to care about ownership so that will hurt sales as well. It appears the major focus now days is on SVOD with Apple, Disney and others jumping on the bandwagon. UV will soon be history, I expect MA to follow.
IMO, this is the crux of the issue .. and why I call it Generational Change .. also why I stated that, at 74, I may never see it happen, but I'm comfortable in stating that in 15-20 years (or less, that may be a stretch) .. most all delivery will be by streaming .. and 5G will be a big game changer, especially in areas that are currently underserved by high speed ISP's ..

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post #9132 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 02:02 PM
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Redbox rented UHD at $2.50 a title might inspire more rental activity especially when those are titles that may rent for $6 streaming in 4K. And then there are those boxes of microwave popcorn with a free rental.
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post #9133 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
I'm comfortable in stating that in 15-20 years (or less, that may be a stretch) .. most all delivery will be by streaming .. and 5G will be a big game changer, especially in areas that are currently underserved by high speed ISP's ..
Are you aware that Best Buy shuttered all their mobile stores, AT&T sold their retail store to a 3rd party?

All the following have ceased operation:
  • Best Buy CinemaNow
  • Flixster
  • Paramount Store
  • Red One UHD movie/video download service
  • Sony Pictures Store
  • Sony FMP-X1 and FMP-X10 UHD movie/video download service
  • Target Ticket
  • UltraFlix and Nanotech UHD movie/video streaming service

IMO, there will always be those that will be skeptical about purchasing a non-tangible item. Who knows, 10 to 15 years from now there may not be any movies worth purchasing.

As to 5G, access to it will depend on several factors, those areas that are in the mm wavelength range will need to see the providers tower in order for it to work. I live in the mountain region of NC and we have lot of trees here. 5G in the 600 MHz may work for me, depends on the tower location, if its in the GHz range, forget bout-it.

Just curious, have you looked at the monthly Netflix ISP speed index? If not, take a look then compare the latest posting to one 6 years ago. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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post #9134 of 9224 Old 03-02-2019, 04:08 PM
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Thanks, guys. God, I love this thread! In case somebody might misunderstand, I agree with everything each of you has posted after my last post.
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

All the following have ceased operation:
  • Best Buy CinemaNow
  • Flixster
  • Paramount Store
  • Red One UHD movie/video download service
  • Sony Pictures Store
  • Sony FMP-X1 and FMP-X10 UHD movie/video download service
  • Target Ticket
  • UltraFlix and Nanotech UHD movie/video streaming service
Ultraflix seems to still be in operation. I tried the app on my Roku and went to their web site. Both appear to be working.

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post #9136 of 9224 Old 03-03-2019, 08:38 AM
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Ultraflix seems to still be in operation. I tried the app on my Roku and went to their web site. Both appear to be working.
You are correct, their site is back up. Did not see any mention of the Nanotech hardware.
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post #9137 of 9224 Old 03-03-2019, 02:07 PM
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Ultraflix seems to still be in operation. I tried the app on my Roku and went to their web site. Both appear to be working.
I haven't clicked on their Roku app for awhile but I did register with them in case I wanted to rent something. When I first signed up there were still movies their from the Paramount deal they did but looks like that deal timed out. What they had done was make a deal with Paramount to encode films in 4K for free in exchange to use those titles.
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post #9138 of 9224 Old 03-03-2019, 10:19 PM
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Can we discuss how Netflix Dolby Vision content is produced? Is it natively mastered in DV or is there some kind of conversion going on?

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post #9139 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 11:24 AM
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Can we discuss how Netflix Dolby Vision content is produced? Is it natively mastered in DV or is there some kind of conversion going on?
I believe the colorist in the YouTube video I posted responds to a question about that. I think it's late in the clip.


I checked UltraFlix last night and they have some better prices on things than they did before and have upped the number of tiles. "Fargo" is $3 for example. There are some B titles for $2. On about every title I checked you could watch a few minutes "preview" from the film which is good for determining whether it is decent 4K or not. One older film just seemed to be upscaled.
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post #9140 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 11:50 AM
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I believe the colorist in the YouTube video I posted responds to a question about that. I think it's late in the clip.
I just watched it. He doesn't really say all that much, just that all shows are encoded in HDR10 and DV. I'm not sure if it's natively shot that way. I found his answer to be a bit confusing. I'm interested in this because shows on Netflix like Star Trek Discovery (in certain regions) are encoded in DV, while elsewhere (for the most part, I think iTunes also has it in DV) it is just standard HD, no HDR. I've seen a clip of it in DV, and it looks amazing.

I'm wondering who decides the content is to be encoded in DV? The content creator? Netflix? Who? Does it really matter if the content isn't intended to be encoded for DV? I must say that a lot of original content on Netflix encoded in DV (I'm watching Umbrella Academy) looks quite impressive, but I'm wondering if it really needs it.

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post #9141 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 12:33 PM
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I just watched it. He doesn't really say all that much, just that all shows are encoded in HDR10 and DV. I'm not sure if it's natively shot that way. I found his answer to be a bit confusing. I'm interested in this because shows on Netflix like Star Trek Discovery (in certain regions) are encoded in DV, while elsewhere (for the most part, I think iTunes also has it in DV) it is just standard HD, no HDR. I've seen a clip of it in DV, and it looks amazing.

I'm wondering who decides the content is to be encoded in DV? The content creator? Netflix? Who? Does it really matter if the content isn't intended to be encoded for DV? I must say that a lot of original content on Netflix encoded in DV (I'm watching Umbrella Academy) looks quite impressive, but I'm wondering if it really needs it.
The cameras are usually 12 or 16 bit color. The footage file can be of several formats. He discusses this in the clip and shows what the original looks like. You apply SDR, HDR and DV in post during color grading. BTW, you do know that the computer monitor you are looking at is actually 24-bit? Been that way for years going back to CRTs. Otherwise it would be hard to do photo work on them. DV is a commercial codec and requires a royalty. HDR does not require a royalty.
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post #9142 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 02:11 PM
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The cameras are usually 12 or 16 bit color. The footage file can be of several formats. He discusses this in the clip and shows what the original looks like. You apply SDR, HDR and DV in post during color grading. BTW, you do know that the computer monitor you are looking at is actually 24-bit? Been that way for years going back to CRTs. Otherwise it would be hard to do photo work on them. DV is a commercial codec and requires a royalty. HDR does not require a royalty.
Actually, I'm using a TV for a display so I'm using 32bit as an option, but yes I knew that.

I must have missed that part, I was skipping around the video. Interesting. In any event Star Trek Discovery is probably the best example of 1080p content on Netflix that can really take advantage of DV. As I understand it the show is shot in 2k so it's disappointing they're showing it in 1080p instead of 4k. I was hoping they'd release it on UHD 4k Blu but no such luck, only standard Blu-Ray. Maybe when the series finishes it's run.

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post #9143 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 03:03 PM
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Actually, I'm using a TV for a display so I'm using 32bit as an option, but yes I knew that.

I must have missed that part, I was skipping around the video. Interesting. In any event Star Trek Discovery is probably the best example of 1080p content on Netflix that can really take advantage of DV. As I understand it the show is shot in 2k so it's disappointing they're showing it in 1080p instead of 4k. I was hoping they'd release it on UHD 4k Blu but no such luck, only standard Blu-Ray. Maybe when the series finishes it's run.
Do you live in the U.S. ? If so, how do you get Star Trek: Discovery on Netflix ?

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Do you live in the U.S. ? If so, how do you get Star Trek: Discovery on Netflix ?
I do. I saw it at a friend's house, he used a VPN.

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post #9145 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 04:45 PM
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I do. I saw it at a friend's house, he used a VPN.
Is there much else on Netflix outside of the U.S. that is worth watching? Normally I hear people outside the U.S. complaining they can't get this or that on Netflix.

I read that they could have gotten big bucks from Netflix or Showtime for Star Trek Discovery but they wanted it to anchor CBS All Access.

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Is there much else on Netflix outside of the U.S. that is worth watching? Normally I hear people outside the U.S. complaining they can't get this or that on Netflix.

I read that they could have gotten big bucks from Netflix or Showtime for Star Trek Discovery but they wanted it to anchor CBS All Access.
I thought "Discovery" was specifically made for CBS All Access .. ?? .. I'm sure NF would have paid top dollar, don't know about Showtime ..

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post #9147 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 04:59 PM
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Is there much else on Netflix outside of the U.S. that is worth watching? Normally I hear people outside the U.S. complaining they can't get this or that on Netflix.

I read that they could have gotten big bucks from Netflix or Showtime for Star Trek Discovery but they wanted it to anchor CBS All Access.
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There tend to be a lot more big theatrical releases in other regions on Netflix. You’re right though, VPNs are big outside of the US and they use them to watch US Netflix.

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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
I thought "Discovery" was specifically made for CBS All Access .. ?? .. I'm sure NF would have paid top dollar, don't know about Showtime ..
It is, but CBS doesn't really have any distribution infrastructure outside of the US so they sold the world distribution rights to Netflix.

Syfy's "The Expanse" is another high profile show that was available everywhere on Netflix except in the USA and Canada.



And DaveFi, are you sure it's in DV? I know it's available in HDR in the UK but your mention of Dolby Vision is the first I've heard of it being in that format as well.
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post #9149 of 9224 Old 03-04-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post

And DaveFi, are you sure it's in DV? I know it's available in HDR in the UK but your mention of Dolby Vision is the first I've heard of it being in that format as well.
Yes. It clearly had the DV logo.
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post #9150 of 9224 Old 03-05-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post
I must have missed that part, I was skipping around the video.
It's actually not a very geeky video at all. People who have used consumer graphics programs to improve their photos would even find it interesting and pick up a few tips.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
It is, but CBS doesn't really have any distribution infrastructure outside of the US so they sold the world distribution rights to Netflix.

Syfy's "The Expanse" is another high profile show that was available everywhere on Netflix except in the USA and Canada.
The UK sci-fi series "Utopia" was available on Netflix outside the US too for awhile.
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