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post #1 of 64 Old 04-30-2015, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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How the Christie/Dolby Vision HDR Cinema Projector Works—Probably



A high dynamic-range projector from Christie and Dolby promises something special in commercial cinemas, but how does it work?

Last December, I posted an item about Dolby's announcement that 2015 would see the inauguration of Dolby Cinema, a bold plan to take commercial cinema to the next level with Dolby Atmos immersive sound and Dolby Vision high dynamic-range (HDR) laser-illuminated projectors co-developed with Christie. One of the first public showings of this projection technology was presented last week at CinemaCon, the convention of the National Association of Theatre Owners.

Ever since I first heard about these HDR cinema projectors, I've been very curious about how they manage to achieve high dynamic range. I've asked several people from Christie and Dolby to explain it, but they have all declined. Fortunately, AVS member CinemaAndy pointed me to the patent application submitted by Christie for an HDR projection system, which must be the basis of Dolby Vision in commercial cinemas. And since that information is in the public domain, I can share it with the AVS community.

The patent application starts with a description of current digital-projector technology, which is illustrated in the following diagram:


A conventional digital projector sends white light from a lamp (1) through a lens (2), which reflects from a mirror (7), travels through a transparent integrator rod (5), reflects from another mirror (7), passes through more lenses (6), reflects from another mirror (7), passes through yet more lenses (6), and ends up in the imaging engine (8), where it is split into red, green, and blue components. Each component illuminates a corresponding spatial modulator or "imager" that forms the image for that color in an array of pixels, after which the red, green, and blue light is recombined and projected through the main lens (9) to the screen. The imagers can be DLP DMDs (Digital Micromirror Devices), LCD panels, or LCoS panels. And the white-light lamp can be replaced with red, green, and blue lasers that illuminate the corresponding imagers directly or a hybrid design with blue lasers and a yellow phosphor wheel whose light is split into red and green.

According to the patent application, the dynamic range of a digital projection system is determined by the capabilities of the imager. In the case of 4K DMDs, the application claims the dynamic range is roughly 12 bits at 24 frames per second, and less at higher rates.

The architecture of the proposed HDR projector is much the same, with two critical differences—another spatial modulator and an added array of integrator rods:


In the proposed HDR architecture, the mirror in the upper left of the previous diagram is replaced with another spatial modulator (15) that is divided into an arbitrary number of zones. Each zone is controlled to send more or less light through an array of integrator rods (16), depending on the brightness of the final image in each zone. In the case of an RGB laser-illuminated projector, each laser would have its own integrator rod (5), zonal modulator (15), and array of integrator rods (16) as well as its own imaging modulator that creates the final image for that color.

For those who might not be familiar with an optical integrator rod, it's a transparent rod whose surface is internally reflective—that is, when light enters one end, it is reflected multiple times by the internal surface of the rod. This "homogenizes" the light, converting round or irregular patterns of illumination into a uniform, rectangular pattern. The cross-sectional shape of the integrator rod is typically the same aspect ratio as that of the imagers.


In this conceptual example, the zonal modulator (15) is divided into only four zones (20a-d); in practice, there would be many more zones. In the case of a DMD, the micromirrors in each zone are oriented in a pattern that reflects more or less light, depending on the brightness of that part of the final image. Virtually no light is reflected when all the mirrors in a zone are in their "off" position, while the maximum amount of light is reflected when all mirrors are in their "on" position (20b), and half that amount of light is reflected when the mirrors are in a checkerboard pattern (20d). A complete grayscale is generated by orienting the mirrors so more or less light is reflected from a given zone; for example, zone 20a in this diagram reflects less than half the maximum amount of light, and zone 20c reflects more than half the maximum light.

Interestingly, the mirrors in each zone are held statically in their positions during each entire frame of the video. Why not create a grayscale by alternating all the micromirrors in each zone between on and off many times per frame as an imaging DMD does, varying the percentage of time they spend in the on and off positions (a technique called pulse-width modulation)? Because it is exceedingly difficult to control the PWM frequency so that it's exactly identical for the zonal and imaging modulators, and any difference can result in visible artifacts. Instead, the mirrors in each zone are oriented in a spatial dithering pattern that reflects the desired amount of light as uniformly as possible.

Even so, the light from each zone must be highly uniform, so it is sent through another optical integrator rod. In fact, each zone has its own integrator rod and these rods are arranged in an array that corresponds to the array of zones.


In this diagram from the patent application, light from a laser (1) enters the first integration rod (5) and hits the zonal modulator (15), which reflects the light into an array of integrator rods (16; each rod is labeled 18 in this diagram). The light from the integrator-rod array passes through a single, hollow integrator (19) to blur the seams between the individual rods in the array. The light then hits the imaging modulator (13) at a non-right angle, causing keystone distortion, which can be compensated for with well-known optical techniques and/or image-processing algorithms.

This approach seems very similar to full-array LED backlighting with local dimming in LCD flat-panel TVs, in which the LEDs behind the LCD panel are divided into a number of zones that are dimmed and brightened according to the overall brightness of the image in each zone. This works well to increase the apparent contrast of the image, but it's not without problems of its own, such as halos around very small bright objects on a dark background within a single zone. Obviously, the more zones there are, the less haloing there will be, so I hope the Christie/Dolby Vision projectors have lots of zones.

The patent application does not specify the number of zones, nor does it specify exactly how much the dynamic range is increased over that of conventional digital-cinema projectors, other than to day say it's increased by several orders of magnitude. The basic technology achieves this by lowering the overall black level—which is annoyingly high in most commercial cinemas—and possibly increasing the peak brightness by cranking up the lasers.

When I sent this article to the two companies for fact check, the response was, "Dolby and Christie do not issue public comments about patent applications." So I can't be 100% certain that this is, in fact, the basis of Dolby Vision projection. But it seems a good bet for now.

As I mentioned, Dolby Vision was presented at CinemaCon, where the audience got to see the upcoming Disney-Pixar animated movie Inside Out in addition to several trailers, all graded for Dolby Vision high dynamic range. I deeply regret missing that presentation, which was spectacular by all accounts I've heard, and I look forward to seeing the first Dolby Vision movie, Tomorrowland, when it opens next month. The five locations in the US that are scheduled to be showing the movie in Dolby Vision—and Dolby Atmos sound—are the El Capitan in Hollywood, CA; AMC Burbank 16 in Burbank, CA; AMC BarryWoods 24 in Kansas City, MO; AMC Deerbrook 24 in Houston, TX; and AMC North Point 12 in Atlanta, GA.


Opening on May 22, Tomorrowland is the first Dolby Vision-graded movie that will be available for public viewing. Inside Out will follow on June 19.

Inside Out will debut on June 19 at four more Dolby Cinema locations (with Dolby Vision and Atmos) in the US: New York City (AMC Empire 25), Los Angeles (AMC Century City 15), Kansas City, KS (AMC Town Center 20), and Houston (AMC Willowbrook 24). I strongly recommend that you see these movies at one of these locations if possible; it should be an unforgettable cinema experience!

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post #2 of 64 Old 04-30-2015, 07:58 PM
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I hope that sooner or later it's possible to daily-chain DMDs. This would have an almost multiplicative effect on per-pixel static contrast ration.
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post #3 of 64 Old 04-30-2015, 10:57 PM
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This should really help consumers to understand the benefits of HDR which should hopefully boost sales of HDR TVs which will lead to more HDR content. Hopefully these Dolby experience theaters make their way to more cities (Seattle please!!!).

On a side note: from what I understand Dolby Vision is an optional layer for HDR. So when these movies eventually release on UHD Blu-Ray (hopefully this fall) will the HDR feature only be viewable on Dolby Vision enabled TVs (Vizio R series) or will it also work on TVs that use the SPMTE HDR standard like Samsung's SUHD TVs?
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post #4 of 64 Old 05-01-2015, 12:11 AM
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Thanks very much for this info Scott. I have been very interested in how they are achieving the improved contrast. Thanks to CinemaAndy as well.

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Scott thanks for the explaination, I will read it later. The second modulator is known from the JVC demonstrator 3x4K + 1x 8K LCoS. The SEOS Zorro LCoS, now commercially available from Rockwell Collins*. And Carl Zeiss has long been shipping its Velvet projectors, with 2500000:1 on-off contrast, and high intra-image contrast. It uses two WQXGA (2560 x 1600) DMDs.

Andy pointed out the LCD shutter modulator example, that is the set-up of the original Dolby/Sim2 Direct-lit/direct view HDR LCD monitor, but Dolby also used this set-up, together with a NEC (DCi?) projector in its subjective/perceptive testing of effective (intra-image) contrast ratio's. As reported by Matt in Display Daily a year ago.


https://www.rockwellcollins.com/Data...Projector.aspx
https://www.rockwellcollins.com/Data...projector.aspx
http://www.zeiss.com/planetariums/en...ts/velvet.html
http://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/pla...heet-v4_en.pdf
http://www.display-central.com/free-...-hdr-encoding/
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post #6 of 64 Old 05-01-2015, 03:54 PM
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Ill be at the AMC Barrywoods on May 22 to check out Tommorrowland in Dolby Vision. Very excited! I have heard Atmos at that theater before and it was glorious!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


A high dynamic-range projector from Christie and Dolby promises something special in commercial cinemas, but how does it work?

Last December, I posted an item about Dolby's announcement that 2015 would see the inauguration of Dolby Cinema, a bold plan to take commercial cinema to the next level with Dolby Atmos immersive sound and Dolby Vision high dynamic-range (HDR) laser-illuminated projectors co-developed with Christie. One of the first public showings of this projection technology was presented last week at CinemaCon, the convention of the National Association of Theatre Owners.

Ever since I first heard about these HDR cinema projectors, I've been very curious about how they manage to achieve high dynamic range. I've asked several people from Christie and Dolby to explain it, but they have all declined. Fortunately, AVS member CinemaAndy pointed me to the patent application submitted by Christie for an HDR projection system, which must be the basis of Dolby Vision in commercial cinemas. And since that information is in the public domain, I can share it with the AVS community.

The patent application starts with a description of current digital-projector technology, which is illustrated in the following diagram:


A conventional digital projector sends white light from a lamp (1) through a lens (2), which reflects from a mirror (7), travels through a transparent integrator rod (5), reflects from another mirror (7), passes through more lenses (6), reflects from another mirror (7), passes through yet more lenses (6), and ends up in the imaging engine (8), where it is split into red, green, and blue components. Each component illuminates a corresponding spatial modulator or "imager" that forms the image for that color in an array of pixels, after which the red, green, and blue light is recombined and projected through the main lens (9) to the screen. The imagers can be DLP DMDs (Digital Micromirror Devices), LCD panels, or LCoS panels. And the white-light lamp can be replaced with red, green, and blue lasers that illuminate the corresponding imagers directly or a hybrid design with blue lasers and a yellow phosphor wheel whose light is split into red and green.

According to the patent application, the dynamic range of a digital projection system is determined by the capabilities of the imager. In the case of 4K DMDs, the application claims the dynamic range is roughly 12 bits at 24 frames per second, and less at higher rates.

The architecture of the proposed HDR projector is much the same, with two critical differences—another spatial modulator and an added array of integrator rods:


In the proposed HDR architecture, the mirror in the upper left of the previous diagram is replaced with another spatial modulator (15) that is divided into an arbitrary number of zones. Each zone is controlled to send more or less light through an array of integrator rods (16), depending on the brightness of the final image in each zone. In the case of an RGB laser-illuminated projector, each laser would have its own integrator rod (5), zonal modulator (15), and array of integrator rods (16) as well as its own imaging modulator that creates the final image for that color.

For those who might not be familiar with an optical integrator rod, it's a transparent rod whose surface is internally reflective—that is, when light enters one end, it is reflected multiple times by the internal surface of the rod. This "homogenizes" the light, converting round or irregular patterns of illumination into a uniform, rectangular pattern. The cross-sectional shape of the integrator rod is typically the same aspect ratio as that of the imagers.


In this conceptual example, the zonal modulator (15) is divided into only four zones (20a-d); in practice, there would be many more zones. In the case of a DMD, the micromirrors in each zone are oriented in a pattern that reflects more or less light, depending on the brightness of that part of the final image. Virtually no light is reflected when all the mirrors in a zone are in their "off" position, while the maximum amount of light is reflected when all mirrors are in their "on" position (20b), and half that amount of light is reflected when the mirrors are in a checkerboard pattern (20d). A complete grayscale is generated by orienting the mirrors so more or less light is reflected from a given zone; for example, zone 20a in this diagram reflects less than half the maximum amount of light, and zone 20c reflects more than half the maximum light.

Interestingly, the mirrors in each zone are held statically in their positions during each entire frame of the video. Why not create a grayscale by alternating all the micromirrors in each zone between on and off many times per frame as an imaging DMD does, varying the percentage of time they spend in the on and off positions (a technique called pulse-width modulation)? Because it is exceedingly difficult to control the PWM frequency so that it's exactly identical for the zonal and imaging modulators, and any difference can result in visible artifacts. Instead, the mirrors in each zone are oriented in a spatial dithering pattern that reflects the desired amount of light as uniformly as possible.

Even so, the light from each zone must be highly uniform, so it is sent through another optical integrator rod. In fact, each zone has its own integrator rod and these rods are arranged in an array that corresponds to the array of zones.


In this diagram from the patent application, light from a laser (1) enters the first integration rod (5) and hits the zonal modulator (15), which reflects the light into an array of integrator rods (16; each rod is labeled 18 in this diagram). The light from the integrator-rod array passes through a single, hollow integrator (19) to blur the seams between the individual rods in the array. The light then hits the imaging modulator (13) at a non-right angle, causing keystone distortion, which can be compensated for with well-known optical techniques and/or image-processing algorithms.

This approach seems very similar to full-array LED backlighting with local dimming in LCD flat-panel TVs, in which the LEDs behind the LCD panel are divided into a number of zones that are dimmed and brightened according to the overall brightness of the image in each zone. This works well to increase the apparent contrast of the image, but it's not without problems of its own, such as halos around very small bright objects on a dark background within a single zone. Obviously, the more zones there are, the less haloing there will be, so I hope the Christie/Dolby Vision projectors have lots of zones.

The patent application does not specify the number of zones, nor does it specify exactly how much the dynamic range is increased over that of conventional digital-cinema projectors, other than to day say it's increased by several orders of magnitude. The basic technology achieves this by lowering the overall black level—which is annoyingly high in most commercial cinemas—and possibly increasing the peak brightness by cranking up the lasers.

When I sent this article to the two companies for fact check, the response was, "Dolby and Christie do not issue public comments about patent applications." So I can't be 100% certain that this is, in fact, the basis of Dolby Vision projection. But it seems a good bet for now.

As I mentioned, Dolby Vision was presented at CinemaCon, where the audience got to see the upcoming Disney-Pixar animated movie Inside Out in addition to several trailers, all graded for Dolby Vision high dynamic range. I deeply regret missing that presentation, which was spectacular by all accounts I've heard. I look forward to seeing the first Dolby Vision movie, Tomorrowland, when it opens next month. The five locations in the US that are scheduled to be showing the movie in Dolby Vision—and Dolby Atmos sound—are the El Capitan in Hollywood, CA; AMC Burbank 16 in Burbank, CA; AMC BarryWoods 24 in Kansas City, MO; AMC Deerbrook 24 in Houston, TX; and AMC North Point 12 in Atlanta, GA.


Opening on May 22, Tomorrowland is the first Dolby Vision-graded movie that will be available for public viewing. Inside Out will follow on June 19.

Inside Out will debut on June 19 at four more Dolby Cinema locations (with Dolby Vision and Atmos) in the US: New York City (AMC Empire 25), Los Angeles (AMC Century City 15), Kansas City, KS (AMC Town Center 20), and Houston (AMC Willowbrook 24). I strongly recommend that you see these movies at one of these locations if possible; it should be an unforgettable cinema experience!

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This makes perfect sense.

Dolby hasn't actually engineered anything new in decades. Their only hope is to "buy up" the competition, and the engineers that are doing the real work.

This is what they did in immersive 3d sound, too.

Dolby is a marketing company only - marketing their logo.

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post #8 of 64 Old 05-01-2015, 11:32 PM
 
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichLinton View Post
This makes perfect sense.

Dolby hasn't actually engineered anything new in decades. Their only hope is to "buy up" the competition, and the engineers that are doing the real work.

This is what they did in immersive 3d sound, too.

Dolby is a marketing company only - marketing their logo.
10 days ago I was thinking that same thought on my way to CINEMACON, YOU ARE SO WRONG .....

It may be they buy and borrow but I am tickled pink with the level of passion, perfectionism, and competence heading up ATMOS, we discussed a dozen of the deepest and most progressive concepts and all can say is WOW, and the kind of candid humbleness when we touched on areas of improvement and what they are doing about it,humility derived from enlightenment, not only they stole the show with Dolby CINEMA, but the most amazing epiphany is I have met kindred spirits the likes of when I approached IMAX with similar perspectives just encountered square HEAD engineers with the plastic ball point ink pocket protectors, and a BIG suggestions are not welcomed sign.:-)

I Like the IMAX processing done on Game Of Thrones and how it attempts to give it the 70mm grain structure(unsharp mask) and 70mm s-gamma (IMAX LARGE FORMAT interstellar was drab in the 35mm segments underexposed and brownish, whilst on the 70mm segments it was gloriously exposed and fabulous detail and MTF, the game of thrones approached that look of 70mm intestellar, so there is hope, if they gave more latitude to engineers rather than been run by investment bankers, they have a shot.

That been said: I LOVE DOLBY. How much do I love thee?

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There are extremely serious knowledgeable enthusiasts with some very deep pockets, the perfect cauldron for innovation. they are about to turn our ecosystem on it's head in the best possible way. It's comforting to know that when we go to bed every night that these guys are out there ever vigilant, with our back.


IMMERSION SUPER-FREAKS REJOICE.

IMAX for a Canadian company it should not be so hard to find a bit of the Human Touch within your team. Reculturalise and thrive.
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post #9 of 64 Old 05-02-2015, 12:13 AM
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Donald,
NEC, Sony commercial and Barco are quite happy with the existing status quo for commercial cinemas. Christie and Dolby have been very frank about the pitfalls of today's commercial cinemas. It was not a surprise to me when the two teamed up for Dolby vision, that will also be consumer available in the not too distant future of both projectors and TV's. Rockwell Collins is a large military supplier. The demands of a F-22 flight simulator display far surpasses your local cinema standards. However RC is releasing a laser projector sometime this year, the first time they have entered the non government market in decades. I think there price is reasonable, however with heavy hitters IMAX and now Christie entering the home cinema market, there going to have a small share of it.

Another area of interest and push, obviously is the studios and content creators. As they view HDR and HFR as simply another tool to use in their productions, and the cinema owners want to hang some more little signs below the tile, like laser, 3d, IMAX, etc so people will pay more for a better experience. Despite a decade long drop in box office attendance that has leveled off, the numbers are showing people will pay more for a better experience and i think that better experience is finally showing up.

The person who showed me the "cans" and "reels" of the industry when i was younger, who today celebrated his 86th birthday, showed me a brochure from Strong dated 1958, showing a three lamp projector that utilized 3 optical integrator rods, an industry first. Only 6 projectors were ever made and installed, 3 in Chicago, 1 in St. Louis and 2 in LA, and all 6 were removed by 1965 the biggest reason was reliability and extra maintenance cost. There are a lot of people who said IMAX used similar principles in their commercial film projectors when they entered the market in the 70's. I can't say yes or no, simply because it has been too long since i saw a running Strong or IMAX film projector.

Christie Digital and Dolby have ventured far from their respective safe zones, they have criticized everything from screens to seats. As someone who makes his living installing, upgrading and maintaining commercial cinemas, i wholeheartedly agree with them. Laser light sources, HDR is a natural progression as is HFR, and opening the door for glasses free 3D.

Scott, i was able to have a few minutes with both Dolby and Christie today. When i pressed the zone issue at Christie i got a subnormal response, "Patience my young padawan." Dolby was a brisk "No comment on future applications, at this time." So they are tired of being asked about zones, are my ice breaking joke about how many zones there A/C has didn't do the trick haha. This is very interesting. As you may or may not know the Dolby Cinema uses 6P Christie DUO projectors, more commonly called the "L", because that is what they look like. One projector sits normal, the second projector sits 90 degrees facing the normal sitting projectors lens. The normal orientated projector shots straight unto the screen, the second projector image shots off a mirror unto the screen. The setup has been around for a few years now. I was told that with the HDR projectors the light is bounced off of 3 DMD's. Yeah what i said at first. If you think about it, the inherent problem with any IT DMD is light waste or light pollution of the finished projected image. By increasing the DMD's the light is bounced(reflected) across, you lose the waste and end up with a more pure presentation. That alone should offer substantially increased contrast rations. THX was a sound reference, later they dabbled into the projection side, namely with the new digital projectors. Dolby Cinema is a whole house standard with projection being only a part of it. Seating materials, screen materials, speakers placement, construction, sound insulation, lighting, etc is all part of Dolby Cinema. Unless something changes, there will be only 6 or 9 Dolby Cinemas from now to 2016. AMC Prime has agreed to a 100 screens over ten years. Another bit noteworthy news, is that Dolby is doing a revenue/profit sharing model to ease the cost and get more screens up faster. I know a lot of owners who would not turn that down. From what i understand, hardware availability is sitting the screen count. I am also trying to find out if these Dolby Cinemas are using Christie ribbon speakers or the normal Klipsch or JBL Pro loudspeakers.

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/platforms/dolby-cinema.html
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...hite-paper.pdf

The pictures are a stock image of a Christie Digital DUO ("L") setup for those who have not seen or heard about it. Fantastic 3D, super brite 2D.
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And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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Hi Andy the setup was not L, but side stack at CINEMACON.

At the end of the show I saw reporters aiming cameras at this...small projection booth on main floor , the really large projector "decoy?" battery on second floor had the other 2,300-1c laser projectors.And maybe something like what donald posted, 3 chip projector into lcd filter panel, maybe. But Andy the Dolby Cinema model shows a single lens POINT....

This could be achieved with my preferred method of duo, the head to head.

Ill let you know that my best size belief is that the DC projector is 1/3 less deep since there is no lamphouse and twice the height of a typical cp series for the magic machine described by Scott. There was one industry analyst let into the booth, he is of armenian heritage well know smpte fellow..... Im not saying it was him that told me about the stockiness of form factor.
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Scott Thanks for great engineering "in reverse" to at least give us a breadcrumb trail; alas the road to comprehension.

Dolby Vision 14-16 f-stop HDR rank specification is extremely generous, over padded 15% on the brightest whites,and 5% in the blacks. The director of spy mentioned he may want to play with screen shapes due to his comfort level with the absence of light on letterbox image area. A kitchen knife fight scene was regraded, and there wasn't much color to play with stainless mainly and some blood, not very impressive looked a bit like my s-gamma lut file 2.85 which crushes blacks and blows out the whites, in my case losing resolution, resolution was preserved, crushing black on that conversion was perhaps spotted, very hard to tell without knowing the scene.

The ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IN THIS ATMOS MIX taken in the context of an introduction to DOLBY CINEMA ( and you were expecting a Melissa McCarthy joke, shame on you) was that knives impacting other butchering implements and metallic surfaces, grinding,sliding metal all over the place which excited the QSC horn throats too much (it underscored the weakness of horns).


my funny video was done to POKE fun at horn speakers, since then I qualified TRIAD as BRONZE award at CEDIA 2014 for their fabulous actually it was Albert or Richard that pimped a hotel room TRIAD ATMOS EFFECT speakers.



HEY had they intended to provide the definitive rendering of the
If they were trying to capture the zeitgeist of that ghastly torture chamber....then they landed an f-16 on top a carrier, mission accomplished, its a wrap, giant claw on the blackboard catastrophic sound byte/event recreated Texas size.



Honestly sounded like it was mastered on an inexpensive jbl multiplex kit, a 12 year old one,In all fairness Paul Feig warned the audience that the only thing he has done surround sound wise in his career was blow up a Car, he will learn he is born on the same date as I, I think this was done at Fox which I believe is JBL, it is in their canada room, with 75 dollar surround speakers. Well the vignette sound quality presentation was one of contrasts everything from Disney-Pixar-Lucas sounded great ( as good as can sound with the QSC's super duper QSYS version 12). So my new friend said Garbage IN Garbage out, dolby prefers that there be better production standards, specifically anything done at the back-end the b- chain, the dacs, the amps D'agostino.... Like when comparing Home Atmos material that the DEMO DISC tracks are considered superior to the actual Movies, the same thing happened at the Colosseum the quality of the Pre-show Dolby Cinema HDR trailer in that the sound was best.






So like different atmos mastered blu-rays can be rated (by SQ good better best), so can the different dcp mastered Atmos tracks within the OFFICIAL DOLBY CINEMA INTRODUCTION TO NATO playlist. And just as I could predict the sound-quality by just looking at their mastering facility: Fox, bad too high on the wall, Warner, What the hell? Way to high, they are mastering surround sound for midgets!
NOW Disney positions the sound engineer ergonomically correct at the 1/3 bottom to top of screen.



So people are beginning to hear the same things and give feedback to DOLBY, let's just say I am very pleased with the level of commitment to perfection at the atmos helm....


Going back to HDR...

Technicolor has 2 flavors: 1) autopilot HDR grading expansion now a plug in for 3 different color grading systems (I linked 2 on the regrading for dummies), and autodesks.

They also do 2) full service hdr gradings and they are done on the 8 f-stop range HDR proposed format not the same contrast or nits requirement as Dolby Vision in Dolby Cinema.

To be frank no one needs the max level of f-stops in a Home Not even Dr. Sonneborn. For TENTPOLES absolutely, that is what Dolby Cinema is for.


Dolby and sony has a solution in common for Dolby Vision authoring.

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post #12 of 64 Old 05-02-2015, 08:51 AM
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Hi Andy the setup was not L, but side stack at CINEMACON.

At the end of the show I saw reporters aiming cameras at this...small projection booth on main floor , the really large projector "decoy?" battery on second floor had the other 2,300-1c laser projectors.And maybe something like what donald posted, 3 chip projector into lcd filter panel, maybe. But Andy the Dolby Cinema model shows a single lens....
Peter, i'm not 100%, but from what i have been told by both Christie and Dolby their screens will use a minimum of two projectors. The Dolby Theatre is using quad Christie 4K 6 P's!!! I do believe the Disney theatre down the road is using the same setup as well. I know Christie is working on a high lumen single projector, but i do not think it has been rolled out yet. No i am not talking about the 63,000 one they wowed everyone with showing Hugo in 3D at 14 FL. No this projector is going above 80,000 lumens. They are also in the testing stage for a multiple head, single light farm set up, a industry first again.

As you know the trick to using 2,3 or even 4 projectors is getting the pixels from each projector to overlap properly, as this can be an exercise in frustration. Nice word. With Christie's DUO set up the lens are so close together, it takes less than 10 minutes. This lowers the process to less than an hour after the units are powered up. They sold me easy on the DUO.

A long time friend of mine with Dolby is in Houston now, as two AMC theatres are being converted to Dolby Cinema here. One is almost complete, minus equipment, the other is i think day two or three into the tear down process. All of these are anticipated to be completed for Disney movie "Tomorrowland" May 22nd doing two auditoriums together is a small miracle by itself, considering they are in two different locations across town in Houston traffic. I have not seen any of the projection equipment, outside the finished auditorium and a massive animated LED jumbotron screens that fills the entrance wall. It was displaying a star field. The finished auditorium was still minus seats and carpets and miles of wiring laying around. It looks exactly like the video below. A lot of area from the front row to the screen. Houston Fire Marshall ok'd the ideal about a dimming exit sign, with the exception it must fully illuminate during a fire alarm or power outage. That to was a miracle form a fire marshall. However, ADA still specifies a minimum of 4 watts per square foot for runway lighting. It is interesting to see if the color blue lessens this effect as i was told it does compared to a white light. Of course those nasty handrails ADA requires will be present at the end of each row.

If i can get access to the equipment used, i will post the pics here if i can.

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And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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Andy interesting to hear about the Rockwell Collins LIP. Main difference is usually vibration. LASER makes sense on movable projectors even the strandard units offer freedom of orientation, as Panasonic showed last year at ISE with its 6K Lumens demonstrator on a rotating axis, on the back along the line of projection, having it turning all day long. also the easier seperation of projection head and lightsource is a great advantage in simulation.

Simulation is generally less demanding when it comes to lumens, ansi contrast, and colour. Resolving power is generally in the rendering of the content. And then we come into polygon pairs and other things i did not fully comprehend in the Boeing CRVS display video(s):

Boeing has been selling the JVC 8K e-shift since 2012, they had exclusivity that's why we didn't see it in other applications(?)

Andy, everything for Dolby Cinema comes at a considerable premium, all to offer the best experience. It doesn't come free to exhibitors because of a revenue share. Dolby requires the best surroundings from exhibitors, they are to provide the best house, according to Dolby's vision, to get Dolby Cinema in the first place, then there is revenue share (licence= Dolby's core business). The revenue share is not news, as THR reported it in its story on the Dolby annoucement of the JT deal. It also reported that JT will launch two more Dolby Cinema theaters, the one scheduled for the summer and the other in Alkmaar scheuled for December opening. There's also an unconfirmed 770 seat new build by Cine City to open this September in Vlissingen, so your 6-9 cinema's till 2016, must be your Texas' so big we can't see across view, lol, as we have 4 scheduled to come online in Holland alone, and there is the one in Barcelona announced as fellow launch customer by Dolby last year, so that makes for at least 5 more in Europe. The three JT theaters are all new builds, so is the Cine City one, so everything is being done to the exacting standards of Dolby.

And yes, operators are interested in offering an experience not easily matched, at home or by competitors.

For instance the seats in Eindhoven are 1100,- euro a pop http://www.figueras.com/es/proyectos...bioscopen.html. That is 385K Euros for the seats alone, a hefty chunk out of the €2 Million build cost for this 350 seat room. Seats are 4-5 times the cost of regular seats, the audio wattage is also three times the wattage of the already hefty Atmos room in JT's cinema in Hilversum.

BTW, the L allows operators to wedge in between an on location, non-live, spare back-up Xenon projector, in about 10-15 minutes.

The Dolby Cinema in Eindhoven currently uses a dual head 4K Christie LASER projector, so the familiar 2x3P=6P set-up. I seriously doubt this will be doubled-up when the Vision Projection system arrives, as it currently uses 30K lumens LASER source per head, so the current LASER source can still be doubled, without additional heads. Of course rooms like the Cinerama in Seatle discussed in other threads is larger.

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post #14 of 64 Old 05-02-2015, 10:37 AM
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@peter , the image I posted was from a Dolby test rig to test peoples perception of optimal dynamic properties. As Matt wrote:

Quote:
Dolby did some human factors tests to determine what the optimum dynamic range of the display should be for the most pleasing images to the most people. This involved use of a digital cinema projector backlighting a monochrome LCD panel, giving a very high dynamic range with a very high maximum brightness. This system could produce luminances from 0.004 to 20,000 nits with the P3 (Digital Cinema) color gamut. The experiment was done with a couple of dozen viewers in a dim room, with lighting comparable to what is in a cinema auditorium.
So, this was not a prototype for the Dolby Vision projector. Though as I suggested before when I posted this image first last week or so, it could be used as an alternative to the Dolby Vision projection system build by Christie, if one is that keen.
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Andy I clarified my post to reflect ONE LENS POINT not single projector, my moons of Jupiter concept is based on 6p dual, so we like the duo concept too. The thing is in non dci you get autoconvergence with the duo and DCI's are built to TI spec so no autoconvergence functionality.


Donald they threw around the 2 million dollar number for Dolby Cinema at cinemacon, I thought that was the price of the projection system. Is there a shaker on the Dolby screen? Bill Beck does not like the word shaker I think he uses massaged, don't know will have to upload the youtubes...

The new 3d screen is reportedly easier to shake. So this is something going on undisclosed basically across all rgb laser installs but to either protect the MASSAGER intelectual property or because like in movie RUSSIA HOUSE it is "NOT CONVENIENT" (to spotlight areas of on going technological improvement with negative sexiness factor).


I have been swamped since my return but one thing I want to ascertain, the other day you threw me a curve ball with the REC 2020 not achievable on 6p but achievable on 3P which would make the new NEC 1040 with its completely redesigned second generation, higher contrast, sealed engine,15% more efficient.... this is now a monkey wrench on decision making processes until it appears in July. I have a gazilion pictures and videos from cinemacon gotta find where to post on my website. I have a cinemeccanica engineer saying it is better for rec 2020 to have 6p. Listen as long it is in the general ballpark the color is going to be so amazing I question the value of splitting hairs on actual rec 2020 resolveability.... I know it is necessary but not something you will sense with your eyes oh yeah

If the improvement on the 1040L is as dramatic as the improvement of the 1201 over the 1101 then that should be a treat, problem with non Barco PLATFORM(notice I am emphasizing the word PLATFORM because the best barco in terms of suitability for a particular purpose in this case F-1 HT...may not be a Barco ) is you are stuck with hdmi 4k 30, hdmi2.0 hdcp 2.2 can only be achieved first on Alchemy. They requested a prioratized list of features necessary for the HT market on Barco 4k. If there is any way of doing motion compensated frame interpolation, and HDR autopilot Technicolor Intelligent Tone Management. These are the kind of things BARCO needs to REFOCUS on, they have the market cornered with the IMS, when they designed it oversized they covered their buttss, there is no way the Dolby IMS 2000 form factor will be able to handle 4k60 and the rest of the 2.0 suite. My advice to the barco resi is FOCUS on Performance first, easy on the lifestyle experiments, HDR is here, and it is necessary, it's 2015 an there is no stb to do motion compensated frame interpolation, the only solution I have found is cloud based or some unstable pc programs.....

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Donald, i did a sim projection set using Christie projectors for NASA Johnson around 13 or so years ago. The sim was actually the view the astronauts see from inside the shuttle. Everyone else i knew stayed away from the bidding and stupid me was the only bidder, but i took it as a learning experience. After the job was finished i found out one of the engineers was a projectionist in High School and through college. He recommended commercial equipment for it's reliability and large replacement (cheap) parts readily available from numerous sources. This is what the projection NASA engineers wanted me to do, parallelogram, rectangle, rhombus, Trapezoids and kites. All of these are polygon pairs, and the shape of the windows in the shuttle and views from a space suit visor. Two projectors were required, as well as a equipment room full of every known video imaging device to make the two projectors work. It was a real headache, a lot of head scratching, but the finished project worked until the space shuttle was decommissioned. I think the simulator is now on display at the Smithsonian, minus the equipment, that i guess was auctioned off.

Yes Dolby Cinema is a premium viewing. Ticket prices here in the U.S. will be around $20+ dollars. My screen count was U.S. wide, not worldwide. AMC Theaters inked a 10 year 100 screen deal with Dolby mere weeks ago. As far as i am aware other major chains are interested, but have not signed nothing with Dolby, yet. I do not believe Dolby is actively seeking smaller chains or single owned cinemas, yet. To play ball with Dolby Cinema you have to use their field and equipment. I have never been convinced more $$$ is better quality, the workmanship and materials used dictate quality to me. Also i am not 100% convinced those seats will be a success with the North American cinema market moviegoer long accustomed to high back reclining seats with the cup holder at the end of the arm rests. AMC Theaters lazy boy recliner style premium seating has been a very big success here. There too comfortable for me, i fell asleep watching Interstellar in one.

Scott Daly, Timo Kunkel and Suzanne Farrell with Dolby did the NEC projecting onto a 23 inch monochrome LCD panel, getting 0.004 nits of black level and 20,000 nits of peak white. Both the projector and display were dual modulated to get this result. http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...ter-pixels.pdf
There is also some very good rumors and indications that the Christie 6P set up for Dolby Cinema uses 9 DMD's per projector. Each laser shooting through a integration rod, zonal modulator, integrator rods, hollow integrator, imaging modulator and sent across 3 DMD's for each red, blue, and green laser for a total of 9 DMD's would remove any unwanted or leftover light from the light source, that alone would substantially increase contrast levels, increased lumens would naturally increase overall light output. Having a zonal capacity could increase lumens in a group of pixels and reduce lumens in another group of pixels at the same time in the same zone. I'm thinking the zone count will number in the millions. I believe Dolby and Christie's claim of near 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio as even today's 6P projectors operate around 3,500:1 contrast, some still as low as 2,000:1. I believe this is a way to move away from the use of prisms.

The Rumor mill has Sony and Kodak and Barco and Technicolor teamed up working on their own versions of HDR. No word on what NEC is doing. eCinema has this to say about the current round of HDR display devices. http://www.ecinemasystems.com/hdr/

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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post #17 of 64 Old 05-02-2015, 12:57 PM
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Peter, I was surprised to hear about that difference between 3P and 6P too, I have no idea if this correct, or not, but it was something Chris Chinnock took away from his Barco factory visit.

Mark Porlier also keeps mentioning that speckle advantage to 6P, no idea if there is any chance of on screen 6P providing spectrum broadening?

Quote:
The 6p solutions are needed for 3D and they are also better at speckle reduction than a 3p solution (because of the spectral broadening with two lasers near each primary). 3p and 6p solutions can both achieve the DCI P3 color gamut, but to reach the 2020 color gamut requires a 3p solution with additional speckle reduction techniques (like vibrating the screen). There is now some debate about revising the UHD specification for the primaries and tolerance for the 2020 color gamut specification that focuses on some of the practical issues of commercialization (to be discussed in Wide Color Gamut session at Display Summit).
I guess we will see after Display Summit.

Any interest in adding that retrofit hybrid laser-phosphor illumination to the superkontrast?

Quote:
Barco also intends to offer an laser-phosphor retrofit solutions for its B-, C- and S-series projectors. The first pre-installed C-series projectors (2K, 0.98" DMD with around 20K lumens) is available now with more to come later.
http://www.displaydaily.com/index.ph...ily&Itemid=564
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The simulation market has moved to commercial off the shelf years ago, you were ahead of the curve. LCoS has the lead there, but years ago I read a review in a military simulation/training magazine, there was still apprehention to digital replacements, of Raster-Calligraphics. I can't remember the perceived problems with LCoS, and even more with DLP, but every-one is using LCoS these days. Good to hear from some-one with hands-on experience. Do you still move in this field, for instance visit the itsec in December in Fort Lauderdale?

This was the polygon and 25/25 vision rendering video i was refering to earlier:

Plenty more video's on youtube on this simulation display, and the JVC 8K e-shift projector used in it since 2012.

JVC has a Hybrid (the RGB abandonned) LASER version of the 2K shifting to 4K projector, also rebadged by Wolf cinema, so I see no reason why the 4K->8K e-shift projector couldn't be fitted with it.
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http://www.displaysummit.com/

http://www.displaysummit.com/
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Times have changed for simulation. Knowing how the U.S. government is towards home grown and made products i find it surprising JVC, though formed by an American, is still a Japanese company has penetrated the market as far as they have. Rockwell Collins enjoys a lot of contracts to itself simply from being in Iowa. Here is there SpectraView systems flight simulator, now laser lighted, and providing 20/20 or better vision rendering, a pilot said he could barely tell the difference between the sim and real life, incredible.

https://www.rockwellcollins.com/Data...y_systems.aspx

https://www.rockwellcollins.com/Data...y_Systems.aspx

https://www.rockwellcollins.com/~/me...a%20sheet.aspx

Despite the ridiculously high price, low bulb life, 600 watt power consumption i have always wanted to watch a movie on one of these as they are a 1,000,000,000:1 contrast in a very small form factor, though only 1,000 lumens, not a problem as most simulators are sealed and pitch dark.

Ghosting and anti scaling are among the biggest problems simulation hardware makers face. The person in the simulation might mistake a "ghost" for a reference point or landmark and flunk his slim test, likewise anti scaling removes the real feel from the simulation.

No i do not work in that field any more, the contract with NASA was my one and only and it ended in 2011. For projection this field has produced some just incredible new tech. John Hopkins University uses a medical MRI/CAT/X-Ray test system that outputs the video stream into a commercial video server and in turns powers three projectors, do not know the brand, mounted in the ceiling down firing at a table for 3D imagery of the person who was scanned, giving a very realistic look into the human body, the Doctors can actually look inside your body in real time and have incredible clarity, contrast and imaging tools at their fingertips, that was impressive.

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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Andy I clarified my post to reflect ONE LENS POINT not single projector, my moons of Jupiter concept is based on 6p dual, so we like the duo concept too. The thing is in non dci you get autoconvergence with the duo and DCI's are built to TI spec so no autoconvergence functionality.
This makes it so easy i charge them double while i sleep.


Yes i lie, i never sleep on the job.

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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So, the 'Zorro' is now available with a LASER, though not yet on the spec./productsheet. The High Contrast projector is available (offered on the website, not sure if RC actually offers more) in two configurations, 1 Million not Billion to one and half a Million to one, one of the two offers a few hundred (1300?) lumens more and the other 1000 or 1100 according to the specs. Low lumens anyway, the Zeiss Velvet is specced at 2500 lumens, and 2,5 million to one.

Well the US government doesn't deal with JVC, it buys from Boeing, and Boeing till recently 'owned' that product. But beside that, what alternative is there, SEOS was UK not US till RC bought it.

In simulation the 'ghosting, aliasing, spots or other artifacts are unwanted, but non-critical, as it is simulation not operation. But this is the reason why there are still no projection systems for actual medical use. All those (Canon) medical 'grey' monitors, are for monitoring, educational use and so on, but not for diagnosis!

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Originally Posted by Reddig View Post
Thanks very much for this info Scott. I have been very interested in how they are achieving the improved contrast. Thanks to CinemaAndy as well.
And congratulations on having a Dolby Cinema in Kansas!!!
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The patent application does not specify the number of zones, nor does it specify exactly how much the dynamic range is increased over that of conventional digital-cinema projectors, other than to day say it's increased by several orders of magnitude. The basic technology achieves this by lowering the overall black level—which is annoyingly high in most commercial cinemas—and possibly increasing the peak brightness by cranking up the lasers.

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Great article! Thanks for pointing this out for us.

Concerning theater black levels: If theaters don't/can't install dim-able "EXIT" signs it won't matter much. Does anyone know of a theater that has low light "EXIT" signs? Okay, I searched the thread and CinimaAndy already researched this, cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
Houston Fire Marshall ok'd the ideal about a dimming exit sign, with the exception it must fully illuminate during a fire alarm or power outage. That to was a miracle form a fire marshall. However, ADA still specifies a minimum of 4 watts per square foot for runway lighting. It is interesting to see if the color blue lessens this effect as i was told it does compared to a white light. Of course those nasty handrails ADA requires will be present at the end of each row.

If i can get access to the equipment used, i will post the pics here if i can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEfR0jBBu0w
Nice!

Maybe a good comprimise would be a "dark row" area.

Cheers,

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Great article! Thanks for pointing this out for us.

Concerning theater black levels: If theaters don't/can't install dim-able "EXIT" signs it won't matter much. Does anyone know of a theater that has low light "EXIT" signs? Okay, I searched the thread and CinimaAndy already researched this, cool.


Nice!

Maybe a good comprimise would be a "dark row" area.

Cheers,
I was told the blue halo led behind the screen will be at 50% percent during coming attractions and completely off for the presentation. EXIT lights will dim to around 30% as will the runway lighting. There was considerable research into what color to use, not wattage. There is a long name for it, i call it deep blue.

I was at the sites this afternoon, and they looked like construction sites, nothing picture worthy yet, also none of the hardware was in either place. I still find it odd we are getting two Dolby Cinemas down here in Houston. When I heard Texas was getting a few i was figuring Dallas or Austin, mostly Austin since there is more production companies there than in Hollywood.

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnoonie View Post
Great article! Thanks for pointing this out for us.

Concerning theater black levels: If theaters don't/can't install dim-able "EXIT" signs it won't matter much. Does anyone know of a theater that has low light "EXIT" signs? Okay, I searched the thread and CinimaAndy already researched this, cool.


Nice!

Maybe a good compromise would be a "dark row" area.

Cheers,
With Hold Harmless clause?

The solution is motion detector beams and focus group based dimming ramping algorithm that provides minimum necessary light where some one is on their way from taking a leak, but the bathroom visits should be discouraged by overemphasizing the separate entrance and exit as IMAX does...

Last edited by CINERAMAX; 05-03-2015 at 06:51 PM.
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post #27 of 64 Old 05-03-2015, 06:33 PM
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Cinema Andy - thanks for PM'ing not one but TWO Dolby Vision Cinemas coming up in H Town - I will post the info here for other members:
22nd May Tomorrow Land - AMC Deerbrook Mall in Humble.
19th June Inside Out - AMC Willowbrrok Mall.
I finally can start going to Movie Theaters after a long Haitus... while I await for my personal Cinema currently in process of conversion from a 9.4 to 13.4.10 Trinnov With All Theta NCore amplification...

Last edited by Ash Sharma; 05-03-2015 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #28 of 64 Old 05-03-2015, 07:03 PM
 
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Aha Deniss' hold is beginning to yield!

Just messing with you guys, warm greetings to all.

Ash 2 Dolby Cinemas. Please be our sounding board to the vicarious adventurers during the market rollout formative year.


Im going to spoil alert abit regarding the impact of HDR on a live action film versus on animation. In a perfect world Disney/Dolby would have shown the animation first, then the live action, if only because we have a frame of reference with the real world.

Inside Out is a cartoon, of a little girl that has cartoon characters living inside her head and interacting. When it is real life, or supposed to be in real life its rec 709, when we see inside the cartoon girls head, it's rec 2020 .

It is still a cartoon with limited shading, and then Dolby and Disney conspired and colluded to take the TOMORROWLAND COLOR GRADING EXPERIENCE TO THE 2,000,000-1 EXTREME.

They only showed 3-5 seconds of the 16 f-stop HDR but wow, wow, wow. And the sound is going to image correctly which until further notice FOX and WARNER HAVE A HUGE CLASS ACTION EXPOSURE for sound design aimed for imaging at the genitalia height of the general audience.
CinemaAndy likes this.

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post #29 of 64 Old 05-03-2015, 07:31 PM
 
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
13.4.10 Trinnov With All Theta NCore amplification...
and the mola mola dacs?

I am very interested in following your bold plan for the heights ATMOS MODULE LIKE, very ballsy endeavour I am sure you will get it right. Bravo.
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post #30 of 64 Old 05-03-2015, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
and the mola mola dacs?

I am very interested in following your bold plan for the heights ATMOS MODULE LIKE, very ballsy endeavour I am sure you will get it right. Bravo.
mola mola dacs? - if you are referring to Theta Casablanca - that will go on the way side - Trinnov altitude 32 is what I will have..
Yes 20 channels of Theta Dreadnaught and 3 of Prometheus...
Dennis was kind enough to bring CEO and Founder of Triad speakers Larry Pexton to my home to plot the speaker customization and placement. Triad has some very cool plans for the up firing modules 'Top Hats'...
With a lot of help from our friends - Dolby being involved in the project - and last but not least great emphasis on calibration - we hope for success - 'No risk no reward as they say"...

So once the ATMOS is done with Dolby's blessing - I get a Dolby Vision projector (when they are able to ship one which is smaller than a refrigerator) - I will technically have Dolby Vision at home sans the large screen :-(

I will keep you informed and if you are at CEDIA in Dallas this year, I plan to be there - lets meet.

Your posts are the most cutting edge in the forum - awesome inputs - helped me to take the plunge.

Last edited by Ash Sharma; 05-03-2015 at 07:54 PM. Reason: typo typo
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