Avengers: Infinity War Ultra HD Blu-ray Review - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PeeJHooK View Post
Are there any reviews comparing the two in terms of picture quality? I know the physical copy will win hands down in terms of sound, but I am curious about the differences in picture quality between the two. I have the digital copy that I was planning to sell since I have the disc, but i'm thinking of keeping it now so I can have a Dolby Vision version.
I've only seen one review, but it doesn't directly compare PQ between the disc and Vudu, but if you compare the reviews between the Vudu stream and the disc, it favors the disc. For what it's worth, I have yet to see a Vudu 4K stream (or any stream) - even one with Dolby Vision - look better than the almighty disc. No matter how a stream looks (or sounds) on its own, there are just too many A/V compromises when compressing the bit rate that much compared to disc. I keep all versions just in case...
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post #272 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 07:05 AM
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I was thinking I needed to rewatch/listen to this as it just seemed neautered in the audio.

I thought I had a setting wrong in my system, reading comments here made me realize it was just the way it is.
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post #273 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by laserjock II View Post
I was thinking I needed to rewatch/listen to this as it just seemed neutered in the audio.

I thought I had a setting wrong in my system, reading comments here made me realize it was just the way it is.

Disney has either crappy or merely average audio. They're the worst when it comes to soundtrack mixing and mastering.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #274 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
I've only seen one review, but it doesn't directly compare PQ between the disc and Vudu, but if you compare the reviews between the Vudu stream and the disc, it favors the disc. For what it's worth, I have yet to see a Vudu 4K stream (or any stream) - even one with Dolby Vision - look better than the almighty disc. No matter how a stream looks (or sounds) on its own, there are just too many A/V compromises when compressing the bit rate that much compared to disc. I keep all versions just in case...
Thanks for sharing that link. I should have prefaced that I know physical copy will almost usually win hands down when it comes to PQ. I meant to say if there are any reviews that are in-depth enough comparing the two to inform us whether the 4K stream DV makes up for the lack thereof in the physical copy despite lagging somewhat in PQ.

Are there any other review sites other than the one you linked that actually reviews the 4K streams?

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post #275 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PeeJHooK View Post
Thanks for sharing that link. I should have prefaced that I know physical copy will almost usually win hands down when it comes to PQ. I meant to say if there are any reviews that are in-depth enough comparing the two to inform us whether the 4K stream DV makes up for the lack thereof in the physical copy despite lagging somewhat in PQ.

Are there any other review sites other than the one you linked that actually reviews the 4K streams?

You have to remember that Dolby Vision on a stream is a lesser version than on disc, especially with a 12 bit enhancement layer included. They have to pare down the encode to keep the bitrate low. Most 4k streams are only about 16 Mbps tops.

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post #276 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 09:28 AM
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You have to remember that Dolby Vision on a stream is a lesser version than on disc, especially with a 12 bit enhancement layer included. They have to pare down the encode to keep the bitrate low. Most 4k streams are only about 16 Mbps tops.
Yes, I remember that. So do you think the 4K disc trumps online streaming regardless of whether or not it has HDR or DV?
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post #277 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PeeJHooK View Post
Yes, I remember that. So do you think the 4K disc trumps online streaming regardless of whether or not it has HDR or DV?

Normally, yes. The only one I've seen where the online version was superior due to a shoddy disc encode that scrubbed actual detail away was Oblivion.
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post #278 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
It's basically a channel-based track being spit out of the Atmos rendering software. Fixed objects act just like channels.
Indeed, the tragically technical can label them "static objects that are tied to speaker designations rather than x,y,z locations in 3D space", but I find it easier just to call them channels.

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post #279 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 12:20 PM
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Another crap Disney ATMOS release. I’m done blind-buying their titles...
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post #280 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PeeJHooK View Post
Yes, I remember that. So do you think the 4K disc trumps online streaming regardless of whether or not it has HDR or DV?
At this point in time, I would say yes as well. Disney doesn't even offer their movies in 4K/HDR on Apple TV, so to stream Infinity War in DV you're pretty much limited to Vudu which caps out at 15mbps. Preference here is subjective, but to me having 4x the bitrate outweighs the difference between HDR10 and DV.

I'd say use the disc for now, but make sure to keep your digital copy because in a few years that streaming version may look better. Hopefully.
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post #281 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Normally, yes. The only one I've seen where the online version was superior due to a shoddy disc encode that scrubbed actual detail away was Oblivion.
For me, HDR is more important than fine detail, so in this case I think the streaming version of IW has better HDR and therefore a better picture to me. Most of the time the difference is so small or nonexistent that there's no reason to use the streaming version since you'll just be compressing it more. But in this case the HDR10 simply wasn't as good looking to me, so imo for this movie it's worth sacrificing a bit of detail in compression to get the better HDR.

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post #282 of 320 Old 08-20-2018, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PeeJHooK View Post
I'm a little late to this thread. But I just got my hands on the 4K blu-ray and realized that it only came in HDR, and thus learned that only 4K UHD digital copy is shown in Dolby Vision.

Are there any reviews comparing the two in terms of picture quality? I know the physical copy will win hands down in terms of sound, but I am curious about the differences in picture quality between the two. I have the digital copy that I was planning to sell since I have the disc, but i'm thinking of keeping it now so I can have a Dolby Vision version.
This go around, I actually preferred the digital version more. Dolby Vision on the space scenes were fantastic.
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post #283 of 320 Old 08-21-2018, 09:29 AM
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Greetings,

Sorry to hear this. I would ask that you double check to ensure that the dynamic range compression on your Marantz isn't contributing to this as your comments lead me to believe its possible. By default it's set to the Auto setting and I have found can sometimes be triggered by certain soundtracks. Try playing back the disc, and while its playing go into the set up menu and select the "Audio" option. Under that menu select the "Surround Parameter" option and set Dynamic Range Compression to Off. See if that makes any difference.


Regards,
Hey, Ralph. I just wanted to follow-up after re-watching the film again and ensuring that all compression settings in my AV8805 were indeed set to OFF. Dynamics were WAY better, with significantly more low-end impact, and it finally felt like my subs had something to play! So, THANK YOU for suggesting a fix that will help not only this movie, but potentially many more movies I watch in the future! (I'm surprised a $4500 pre-amp would default to compression being on, but that is a conversation for another board.) The dynamics didn't do much to help the immersion and stingy use of height channels, but it definitely made for a more exciting movie experience.

Just wanted to let you know that I appreciated your reply!

Best,
John
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post #284 of 320 Old 08-21-2018, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey, Ralph. I just wanted to follow-up after re-watching the film again and ensuring that all compression settings in my AV8805 were indeed set to OFF. Dynamics were WAY better, with significantly more low-end impact, and it finally felt like my subs had something to play! So, THANK YOU for suggesting a fix that will help not only this movie, but potentially many more movies I watch in the future! (I'm surprised a $4500 pre-amp would default to compression being on, but that is a conversation for another board.) The dynamics didn't do much to help the immersion and stingy use of height channels, but it definitely made for a more exciting movie experience.

Just wanted to let you know that I appreciated your reply!

Best,
John
Greetings,

Hey John, this is great news! I am so glad that there was indeed an improvement and that it made the viewing worthwhile. Thanks for following up!


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post #285 of 320 Old 08-22-2018, 10:35 AM
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I know this may not be the correct thread for this, but as another few user(s) mentioned the original Avengers movie was also redone and released in 4k so I picked that up too. Its in the original 1.85:1 aspect ratio and is a real looker. Ran it through a few scenes and was relatively impressed. I know Ralph didnt get it sent/picked up, but if you can find it at a lower price its worth a pickup too! Its pretty funny going back to the original after the latter films - being that there is less CGI etc, and its much more simple but still a great movie.
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post #286 of 320 Old 08-22-2018, 10:56 AM
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Even if the audio track was up to anyone’s standards its still a lousy movie.
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post #287 of 320 Old 08-23-2018, 07:53 AM
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Wow. that was an awful audio track. After reading in here, I was expecting lousy bass and height effects, but even the bed layer barely turned on.
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post #288 of 320 Old 08-23-2018, 11:42 AM
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The amount of group think here amazes me.

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post #289 of 320 Old 08-23-2018, 12:00 PM
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The amount of group think here amazes me.

Compare this Atmos track to those coming from many other studios like WB or Sony or sometimes Paramount and Lionsgate and it truly is another disappointment. Is it as bad as some other Disney UHD tracks? Not quite. But that isn't saying much. Plus, they seem to be hell bent on releasing fixed Atmos print-outs rather than those with scalable 3D objects.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #290 of 320 Old 08-23-2018, 12:26 PM
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Dan,

I agree it's not reference at all, but it's not the end of the world either and I've heard far worse--especially from Disney! Age of Ultron was an abomination on the Blu-ray and even in the theater. I was extremely disappointed and actually wrote down scenes to compare with detailed notes in order to compare the BD to the theatrical experience. It turned out it was horrible on both.

I saw this theatrically and didn't think the sound was of reference-quality and found the experience at home to mimic the theatrical release. I don't like what Disney is doing to their mixes either, but this one is a vast improvement over their recent ones. I'm curious to hear how Solo sounds because it sounded pretty good theatrically.
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post #291 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 04:23 AM
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Age of Ultron on BD was one of the worst mixes I've ever heard out of a big budget action film and I'm pretty sure it kickstarted the trend of terrible Disney mixes.
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post #292 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 10:28 AM
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Age of Ultron on BD was one of the worst mixes I've ever heard out of a big budget action film and I'm pretty sure it kickstarted the trend of terrible Disney mixes.

It was pretty much all down hill from there. Disney needs to clean house in their audio department. It's really, really lousy and it sounds like it may not just be their home theater mixes that are affected.
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post #293 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 10:52 AM
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Age of Ultron on BD was one of the worst mixes I've ever heard out of a big budget action film and I'm pretty sure it kickstarted the trend of terrible Disney mixes.
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It was pretty much all down hill from there. Disney needs to clean house in their audio department. It's really, really lousy and it sounds like it may not just be their home theater mixes that are affected.
"Age of Ultron" was horrible in the theater, especially the opening sequence when they are storming the castle. Absolutely no dynamic range and the explosions were hollow (as in like someone turned OFF the LFE channel and set the crossover point to 120Hz). There was absolutely NO low end. Frankly, it's the worst "A list" audio track I've ever heard, bar none. This was in the theater (and I blamed the theater at the time and complained to management) and when the BD finally arrived I realized that someone at Disney screwed the pooch.

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post #294 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 11:44 AM
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Disney is a large corporation, and I presume that they have the resources to attract the best people in the business.

If the audio on their films is a design choice, what choice was made? It seems hard to believe that anemic audio is done for no reason, or out of simple incompetence. For action films, I'd expect a lot of sonic fireworks, even at the expense of not being able to understand dialog.

Anyone here have an idea?
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post #295 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 02:46 PM
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Thought the avengers audio mix was by far the best out of the three newly released 4k version. It wasn't the best that the format offers but was much better than black panther. I would rate IW next and then age of ultron as third.
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post #296 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 04:34 PM
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Thought the avengers audio mix was by far the best out of the three newly released 4k version. It wasn't the best that the format offers but was much better than black panther. I would rate IW next and then age of ultron as third.
Well yeah, the first Avengers came out before the Disney audio fiasco and sounds very good.
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post #297 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 05:40 PM
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Not sure what you guys are talking about.

AoU has better LFE / ULF and dynamics than Avengers. Yes AoU is inconsistent but some of the scenes are demo worthy and it didn't start any bad trend as Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, Gotg etc. sounded very good.

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post #298 of 320 Old 08-25-2018, 06:21 PM
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Not sure what you guys are talking about.

AoU has better LFE / ULF and dynamics than Avengers. Yes AoU is inconsistent but some of the scenes are demo worthy and it didn't start any bad trend as Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, Gotg etc. sounded very good.

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yeah I just watched Doctor Strange (3D) again tonight and I thought it sounded great
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post #299 of 320 Old 08-27-2018, 09:53 AM
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Just got my 4K copy of The Avengers (original 2012) and wow - it is surprisingly excellent for a 2K upscale, like almost too good to believe in some scenes. I think the larger 1.85:1 framing and hyper-clean and stable image combined with the significant improvements to dynamic range and color palette are what seal the deal.
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post #300 of 320 Old 08-27-2018, 12:52 PM
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I don't think the lower volume level of the recent Disney releases is inherently a bad thing, it just goes against the grain by actually mastering to reference level and not bursting our eardrums at reference like most films lol. The problem comes when the dynamic range and LFE level are weak, even at reference volume. So IMO, actual reference volume is fine, crappy dynamic range and LFE level not fine.

That being said, I think the Infinity War audio is a little better than Black Panther or Thor: Ragnarok, still not what it should be though. My biggest gripe is the lack of IMAX aspect ratio! lol
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