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post #1 of 78 Old 03-30-2008, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Background
I guess I'll update the name when I think of a good one - snowkarver's Theater for Hobbits is an appropriate description for mine. Anyway, you've seen my kind around here before - the checklist:
-Long time lurker on the message boards. Check.
-Admirer of what awesome work everybody has done. Check.
-Details have consumed me for weeks. Check.
-Resident of Northern Virginia. Check.
-Hopes to learn from the experience so I can actually post intelligent replies to other members' posts. Check!

Now that those details are out of the way - here's my scenario. I live in a townhouse in a pretty quiet neighborhood with neighbors on both sides. The
community was built in the 40s, but renovated and converted to condos in the 70s. My basement was finished ala seventies paneling, clearly not to theater standards. SO, I spent the past couple of weekends demolishing in preparation for my Theater 1.0.



Layout -


I'm surrounded by cinder blocks! To the left, along the stairs, the paneling was affixed to 1 furring strips, which are attached directly to the cinder block. Obviously not ideal for soundproofing, but it is what it is The front wall has two windows with studs set approximately 2.5 inches from the cinder block. There is a 1' x 1' soffit along this wall containing ductwork. The right wall has ~6.5 of open space between the studs and the cinder block. This wall also has a soffit, which feeds into the duct at the front. The back wall has a door to enter a storage area; the rest of the wall is again attached directly to furring strips on the cinder block. There is no door between the basement and first floor and the stairs kind of open into the room to make it less claustrophobic. Overall not ideal conditions, but it is what it is and the room will have to do for 1.0. The rendering I did below shows the scene (the screen seems so gigantic because of the fisheye perspective to get it all in and the crazy pattern on the floor is to help me estimate lighting).





I had 3 contractors out to take a look, but none really seemed to understand what I was going for (although the latest guy offered up resilient channels). Their responses gave me the excuse to take the approach I wanted to do in the first place - DIY!

The plan -
Ideally, my screen would have been on the back wall to give me more of a throw distance and to allow more space between the screen and the seats. This was the original plan, but the door on the back wall really seemed to make everything way off center (and it only left a 92 wall). With the current layout, I'm sitting about 10-11' from the screen and my throw distance is only ~11'.

I am planning to go with ½ double drywall w/ Green Glue on all walls in this room. The left, right, and front walls will be insulated using R13 or R19. The ceiling will just be a single layer of drywall since the ceiling height is only 6'8without drywall.

For lighting, I have pretty much decided on six 4cans in the main room and one 4 can at the entry, all dimmable. I'm also considering rope lighting on a different dimmer to add to the effect.

I will have 7.1, 1080p with ~100 (depending on PJ) DIY screen, although I'm considering Carada. A DIY equipment rack will be in the back of the room (top left of first drawing). Coax, Cat6, and one outlet of a dedicated theater circuit run to that location. From the rack, I am running component, coax, and IR extenders to two other locations in the house - a bedroom and a living room. Also, I'm running HDMI, CAT5, component, and a SEPARATE conduit (thanks BritInVA) to the PJ as well as IR to the front of the room. The PJ will be powered by a DIY Powerbridge from the rack UPS as described in the countless threads spread around here.

That's pretty much it for the initial post. I will save my questions for now, but figured I might as well throw my hat into the ring to announce my presence. Thanks for reading and a big thanks to the Northern Virginia guys for providing the extra motivation last week at B. Mackrell's theater!

Chris
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post #2 of 78 Old 03-31-2008, 05:29 AM
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Chris, I see your still wearing same outfit as at the NoVA meet
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Just remember on insulation use the correct R value for the depth......compressing it will not add any value and may hurt a little.

Also being a townhouse you might want to go with 5/8" drywall for the added mass or I can see neighbor troubles down the line......definetly looks into seat shakers (Aura or Butkickers) so you can dial down LFE on sub late at night.

Also not sure you will get much value of 7.1 with seats against the wall.

Good Luck and lets see some construction shots.

Cheers,
Mark

=====================================
My HT Thread index on 1st post
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post #3 of 78 Old 03-31-2008, 05:55 AM
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Hey, good luck. At 6'8" unfinished, you definitely also qualify for Hobbit status - welcome to the club!

One thing that you might want to reconsider is your lighting choice. In a 12x15 space with our kind of height, seven four-inchers will not take you very far at all, especially with dark carpet, walls and ceilings. The problem is that these cans (and the PAR20s that go in them) are generally designed with a fairly narrow throw for spot and accent lighting, and the low headroom compounds this as the light cone as very little distance to spread. I just noticed your estimated patterns too - let's just say they look pretty generous to me.

In my 20x8 space, I have ten Halo 4HTs and it's not particularly bright. Okay for a theater, but far dimmer than you would typically have in a living room. For example, at the base of your stairs, I can definitively say that one 4" can will "pool" on the floor, and you will have shadowing on the walls making it seem a bit gloomy.

The next issue is that 5 or 6 inch cans, which have a much wider cone, look a bit silly in a 6 1/2' ceiling because you're so close to them that the scale seems all wrong.

If I were to do it again, I would still use 4" cans and bring them a little closer to the center of the room to concentrate their light. Then I would add a few sconces in strategic locations (with a general up-down-out light pattern) to fill in the edges. It would also decorate the bare walls a bit.

Anyway, just a bit of advice from experience. It's really easy to underestimate just how much light all those dark surfaces really suck up.

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post #4 of 78 Old 03-31-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

One thing that you might want to reconsider is your lighting choice. ... I just noticed your estimated patterns too - let's just say they look pretty generous to me.

Thanks for the advice. Lighting has been my most recent concern and I appreciate you chiming in because your post was definitely one I checked for this issue. The lighting coverage is a little off from the perspective shot, but I estimated a 1:1 diameter to height ratio (i.e., my ceiling is 6'8", so the lights will cast a 6'8" diameter circle). I'm with you on going with 4" cans considering my ceiling height, but maybe I need to add a couple more (go to 2 rows of 4). We were thinking about throwing some sconces into the mix too, so they might go on the screen wall. I actually just spent part of my morning with some lighting consultants who thought my pattern would work, but I'm not sure they were on the same page as me....

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Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

Chris, I see your still wearing same outfit as at the NoVA meet

Hah - yeah, it's my party outfit. I really mean business when the miner's light gets thrown in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

Just remember on insulation use the correct R value for the depth......compressing it will not add any value and may hurt a little.

Also being a townhouse you might want to go with 5/8" drywall for the added mass or I can see neighbor troubles down the line......definetly looks into seat shakers (Aura or Butkickers) so you can dial down LFE on sub late at night.

Also not sure you will get much value of 7.1 with seats against the wall.

As shown in the drawing, I basically have three different walls to deal with:
- Two walls have furring strips directly on the wall (1" cavity);
I read on the board that rigid foam doesn't do well acoustically for the 1", so I was thinking of compressing R13 here. Would that help or hurt me or is that even possible?

- One wall has studs ~2" from the wall (so cavity from back of drywall to cinderblock is ~5") and one has studs set ~6.5" from the wall (9.5" cavity). Maybe R19 for these walls? Are you suggesting that I just look for insulation that is 5" and 9.5" thick and go with that as appropriate?

For the others comments - I'm considering 5/8", but the room is so small as it is, I hate to lose even the 2 x 1/8". Buttkickers are in the plan. And as for the 7.1, I'll be using my current equipment (HK235 + Infinity) until the wallet bounces back from the construction. If there's one thing I've learned, the construction comes first! I might push the seats out a little to get even closer to the screen. Thanks for the suggestion!

Construction pictures will come soon!
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post #5 of 78 Old 03-31-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapmonkey View Post

Thanks for the advice. Lighting has been my most recent concern and I appreciate you chiming in because your post was definitely one I checked for this issue. The lighting coverage is a little off from the perspective shot, but I estimated a 1:1 diameter to height ratio (i.e., my ceiling is 6'8", so the lights will cast a 6'8" diameter circle). I'm with you on going with 4" cans considering my ceiling height, but maybe I need to add a couple more (go to 2 rows of 4). We were thinking about throwing some sconces into the mix too, so they might go on the screen wall. I actually just spent part of my morning with some lighting consultants who thought my pattern would work, but I'm not sure they were on the same page as me....

Not to disparage your consultants or anything, but I have to question their expertise in this matter ... a PAR20 flood, which is pretty much the widest you can go in a 4" can, typically has a beam pattern of 30, maximum 35, degrees - sometimes even less if it's deeply recessed. At 6'8" to the floor, you're looking at a footprint of no more than 4 feet, with maximum lumens concentrated in about a 3 foot circle - and usable light at a seated height of 3 feet up in an even tighter cone.

Good lighting design often relies also on reflected light, which tends to even out hot spots as it bounces off the floors, walls and ceilings. Nullify that in a HT - so the only solution left is increasing the number of lumieres in the room. The rules are definitely different in a low headroom HT.

Can't wait to see the construction pics! I also think I read in a different thread that you carted out your demo debris in small bags to avoid notice...now that's funny!

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!
Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS Home Theater of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!
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post #6 of 78 Old 04-02-2008, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow - I don't know how you guys do it. By the time I come home from work, get some work done on the theater, then get online, I'm too tired to even post!

Thanks for the lighting suggestion snowkarver. I will increase my lumieres! That one was easy.

Does anybody have a suggestion on the insulation for the wall where drywall will be attached to furring strips which are directly attached to the cinderblock wall?

So this week I started running some cables all over the house for a relatively modest distribution system. I ran component cables from the rack location to the second floor bedroom and to the first floor living room along with a line to connect IR distribution. I bought a bunch of Buffalo IR stuff from Smarthome and 1000' of Quad-Shield Solid Copper Core Coax (snowkarver, I think I got that wire suggestion from one of your posts too!). Once the Coax arrives, I'll run that as well. When it's all done, I'll be able to watch anything from the rack anywhere in the house. After figuring out how difficult a clean run through a wall in the house would be, I decided to just put PVC in the corner of a closet to get the signal to the bedroom. Nobody will ever notice...










The markings are still on the wall to line up my plates. I'm using the speaker wires I had laying around for now to connect the banana plugs and haven't yet put the CAT5 connector on the wire exiting under the coax on the left.

Also, I finished demo of the theater area of the basement.




I found Virginia! Or is it Kentucky? Or is it an upside down Carolina...



That's quite a pile. You know what that means....



Time for some Shawshankin'...
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post #7 of 78 Old 04-02-2008, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that Andy Dufresne has left the building, I do have another question. Like an unfortunate neighborhood, my projector will reside directly under the powerlines. I was planning to put a conduit right down the middle between these two floor joists before I opened the ceiling.



If you can't tell from the pic, an open staircase is to the left. The projector will sit on a shelf mounted directly below where the romex is now. How much trouble do you think that will cause for me? It is worth running the romex between another pair of joists on the other side of the room and bring it over where it needs to be? The electrical goes to a switch on the second floor right above where the rack will be. I know code says that I can't drill holes in the middle 1/3 of the beam (thanks AVS search!). Argh... pesky Edison.

Chris
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post #8 of 78 Old 05-04-2008, 06:22 AM
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Chris:

I didn't realize that your thread was so new or that you were still in the demo phase. You weren't kidding about your space, but I'm sure that your theater will turn out fantastic.

It's a beautiful Sunday and I'm sitting here trying to cast off the Loganized curse and go down to the basement and work on some conduit...but I'm sitting here reading AVS Forums instead. Go figure. In any event, I'm subscribed....


CJ

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post #9 of 78 Old 05-04-2008, 06:27 AM
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It looks as though the wire on the left side of the joist goes through the joist on the right side. If that's true, I'd pull the joist stabalizer (the "X"ie thing), move the wire to the other side and to the top of the cavity (about 1/2" to 3/4" below the floor above (to allow for future nailing and such from above).

You could then use the left side of the joist cavity for your wiring and the right side for power.

If you really want to get crazy, you could build a small box around the power line then wrap it in lead or kryptonite to keep the electrons away from your AV cabling.



CJ

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post #10 of 78 Old 05-05-2008, 06:17 AM
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Chris -

Don't know how I missed this! I have the same issue with height, but I gotta go with what I have.

Lighting...probably a little late, but I found that the light pattern on the floor (I'm using 4" par 20, too) is about equal to the heigth. So, just to be safe, placed my cansd no more than 6' apart and so far, it seems fine. Keeping in mind, the other lighting (sconces, spots over the bar seating, hanging fixture over game table and planned rope lighting), I think I'll be fine. If not, that's what old work boxes are for!

Keep up the pics, too!
Good luck,
Tom

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post #11 of 78 Old 05-07-2008, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom and CJ - thanks for the replies and sorry so late getting back. You'd think that I would have subscribed to my own damn post, but I've had so little going on that there hasn't been much action. I hope to change all that soon.

CJ - I think I'll go with the Kryptonite idea. I like that - do you think it's available at HD? I bet that'd get a funny look from the boys in orange (although knowing my store, their head would explode while they searched the store). Actually, the post above (concerning the electrical) is out of date. Last week I reoriented the plan for the room AGAIN. I've now considered all 3 of the potential walls. I'll have to update the post this weekend with some better pics of the space and the latest render.

Tom - the lighting is still weird for me. I took snowkarver's advice and upped the number of cans it a little, but I'm afraid it might be too much. I have eight 4" cans for a space that's approximately 12' x 14.5' (where the couches are in the sketch). That will be two rows of 4, spread about 3' apart along the 14.5' axis after considering the soffit.... Again, an updated pic will help.
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post #12 of 78 Old 05-07-2008, 08:37 AM
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Seems to me like a lot of cans for that area, but that's what dimmers are for.

Good luck,
Tom

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post #13 of 78 Old 05-07-2008, 09:13 PM
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hi there,

it looks like it's gonna be a very nice and cozy HT!! can't wait to see it in person if you gonna host one!!

as for the lighting issue, mine is also 12'x15', and I'm only using 6 4" can along with 60w light bulbs. and bigger (can), it won't look good in such a small space! and I can tell you, with my HT's color, it's more than bright enough for me even during the day time or for gaming!! and especially for a HT!! when I built mine, I was a bit worried 'bout they are being too dark too. but after the first night when I have the HT 'bout 80% done (just sit down and look around), I know they are actually prefect for my little space!!

seems like you are living in a townhouse too? well, so far, I haven't have any problem with my next door neighbor tho. may be b/c of my volume isn't too high, or may be b/c I'm at the corner unit, or may be I'll just need a bigger sub?? but if I were you, tearing the walls down and redo them, I sure would look into some sort of sound damping too. (but well, mine is done and I really don't want to do it all over again.... may be my next house....)

as for the throw and screen distance, I'm sitting 'bout the same as your graph. 10-11' away from the screen (probably closer to 12' if I measure from the back of the sofa), and my PJ is 'bout 11' away too. I can tell you it's perfectly fine even for a 106" (diagonal) screen!! but I too agree a 7.1 system might be a waste in such a small distance tho.

good luck and keep us posting!!
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post #14 of 78 Old 05-08-2008, 06:37 AM
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Chris:

LOL. I changed my design a number of times in the three years between buying the house and me starting. Between the time the slab was poured to the time we moved in, I measured four separate times and changed designs three times. After we moved in, I took the next two years to work through designs and lay plans. Once I got started, I made a few tweaks, but I brought Bryan Pape into the project and he had a few ideas of his own. His first suggestion was to flip the plan. It's not that he did anything wrong...his idea has a lot of metir (heck, it's basically the same layout that mmmkam has - we have the same house plan).

I settled on a plan and didn't have to change much of the framing!

One suggestion...get comfortable with your basic idea and charge forward. There's a lot of weight that you give to someting that you've already completed (it's hard to pull it down and redo it on a whim).

Good luck with the build.

CJ

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post #15 of 78 Old 05-08-2008, 06:42 AM
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Quote:


Wow - I don't know how you guys do it. By the time I come home from work, get some work done on the theater, then get online, I'm too tired to even post!

We post INSTEAD of working I have about 3 conference calls a day and I just waste them on here....All my work is done remotely anyways so no one can see me

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post #16 of 78 Old 05-08-2008, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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We post INSTEAD of working I have about 3 conference calls a day and I just waste them on here....All my work is done remotely anyways so no one can see me

Ahh... I have a lot to learn. I'm actually trying that right now!

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Chris:

...Once I got started, I made a few tweaks, but I brought Bryan Pape into the project and he had a few ideas of his own.
...
One suggestion...get comfortable with your basic idea and charge forward. There's a lot of weight that you give to something that you've already completed (it's hard to pull it down and redo it on a whim).

Good luck with the build.

CJ

Yeah, after talking to you and Cathan, I thought about calling in Bryan since I've only heard great things about him. However, I have pretty much settled on the fact that this will be my 1.0 Learning experience. I know there are some things that I could do better, but my space doesn't lend itself to the full-blown touches that many of the rooms on here are getting (I wish!).

And charging forward is my latest plan! I'm actually going to go to an electric screen in front of a curtain now... The pics I plan to post this weekend will show the new layout.
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post #17 of 78 Old 05-08-2008, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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hi there,
seems like you are living in a townhouse too? well, so far, I haven't have any problem with my next door neighbor tho. may be b/c of my volume isn't too high, or may be b/c I'm at the corner unit, or may be I'll just need a bigger sub?? but if I were you, tearing the walls down and redo them, I sure would look into some sort of sound damping too. (but well, mine is done and I really don't want to do it all over again.... may be my next house....)

as for the throw and screen distance, I'm sitting 'bout the same as your graph. 10-11' away from the screen (probably closer to 12' if I measure from the back of the sofa), and my PJ is 'bout 11' away too. I can tell you it's perfectly fine even for a 106" (diagonal) screen!! but I too agree a 7.1 system might be a waste in such a small distance tho.

good luck and keep us posting!!

Thanks for the info Landshark! I really like what you did in your room. I am leaning toward the six lights, but I might just rough in the eight 4" since I already bought them to see what they look like. Since my ceiling is lower, I don't think I'll get quite the coverage that you have and my paint might end up being darker... Nice to hear the gigantic screen works well for you! I'm looking at the 100" range. I'll probably stick to that, but might go bigger if I can find the right screen/proj combo.

And on the 7.1 - I already have all the gear setup in my living room (which is directly above the theater, in the same size room) and it works pretty well, although the listening position is not optimal. I'll definitely wire for it, but we'll see how it sounds...

Thanks for checking in. I'll try to keep my posts up now that penngray told me the secret!
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post #18 of 78 Old 05-08-2008, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapmonkey View Post

Ahh... I have a lot to learn. I'm actually trying that right now!



Yeah, after talking to you and Cathan, I thought about calling in Bryan since I've only heard great things about him. However, I have pretty much settled on the fact that this will be my 1.0 Learning experience. I know there are some things that I could do better, but my space doesn't lend itself to the full-blown touches that many of the rooms on here are getting (I wish!).

And charging forward is my latest plan! I'm actually going to go to an electric screen in front of a curtain now... The pics I plan to post this weekend will show the new layout.

Given you circumstances (townhouse with limited space for a dedicated theater) I actually think you are better off not hiring Bryan. I'm not sure he would be able to do much for you given your limitations. Certainly by reading the stuff here you already have a good idea how to limit the noise impact on your neighbors and deal with basic acoustic issues. Building your skills, having fun with the build and putting together a room to watch movies and play games will be a great accomplishment. You then take all of that and invest in some pro help for theater 2.0.

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post #19 of 78 Old 05-08-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
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Given you circumstances (townhouse with limited space for a dedicated theater) I actually think you are better off not hiring Bryan. I'm not sure he would be able to do much for you given your limitations. Certainly by reading the stuff here you already have a good idea how to limit the noise impact on your neighbors and deal with basic acoustic issues. Building your skills, having fun with the build and putting together a room to watch movies and play games will be a great accomplishment. You then take all of that and invest in some pro help for theater 2.0.


I agree (no offense to Bryan - he's been great thus far). If I were working with your space and circumstances, I'd do the same thing. There are plenty of folks with good info on this board that will be great help.

CJ

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post #20 of 78 Old 05-14-2008, 05:38 PM
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Progress? Looking for progress!

CJ

Follow my build here: Harvest Ridge Theater
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post #21 of 78 Old 05-15-2008, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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OKAY OKAY!!! I'm slaving away at some electrical diagrams between a busy work period. I think I've got them all ready for the Permit Police. I'm really not looking forward to this part of the experience, but after getting a $2500 estimate and a $6750 - YES, SIX THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED FIFTY - estimate to install 13 recessed lights, 2 sconces, 2 switches, and 3 outlets on 3 breakers, I have decided to do it myself. Granted, the $6750 guy quoted me a full new panel w/ surge, but I definitely didn't ask for that and I have room in my box now....

Other than electrical, I ran the conduit for the PJ this weekend (2" rigid with wide bends) and finished the install of new windows, which was a big step for me!

BEFORE -


DURING -


AFTER (the old tee shirt insulation has been replaced with the flexible "Great Stuff") -
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post #22 of 78 Old 05-15-2008, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah - and here's the latest electrical diagram. Kind of full with everything on all 3 circuits shown, but I'm too lazy to post the separate ones. I'm STILL going back and forth with the lights (which is why the box says 13 lights instead of the 11 shown).... 2 rows of 4 in the main room or 2 rows of 3? Or the new layout - 2 rows of three with another at the top and bottom (i.e., a "box" with 3 on each side....).

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post #23 of 78 Old 05-16-2008, 04:28 AM
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Only thing I'd do is add a second 20 amp circuit for your equipment. That really won't add much more cost but gives you more flexibility. You can keep your projector off of the same circuit as your amp for one.

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post #24 of 78 Old 05-19-2008, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapmonkey View Post

Oh yeah - and here's the latest electrical diagram. Kind of full with everything on all 3 circuits shown, but I'm too lazy to post the separate ones. I'm STILL going back and forth with the lights (which is why the box says 13 lights instead of the 11 shown).... 2 rows of 4 in the main room or 2 rows of 3? Or the new layout - 2 rows of three with another at the top and bottom (i.e., a "box" with 3 on each side....).



Chris:

What program did you use to generate this image? I'm looking to redraw my electrical circuits and your image seems to be just what I'm looking to create.

CJ

Follow my build here: Harvest Ridge Theater
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post #25 of 78 Old 05-20-2008, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey CJ - I used the old trusty Google Sketchup for all my drawings. Truthfully, it probably would have been faster/easier to do the electrical by hand, but I've done all of my sketches so far in Sketchup and wanted to continue the tradition. Actually, I should post some other renderings - this particular graphic is simply a top, 2d view of a 3d diagram.

Following what others on the forum have said, it's been a pretty program good now that I'm starting to get the hang of it. But, I still have to kind of "rig" it occasionally to make the drawing look the way I want it to look. The different 3d planes can sometimes get confusing.... it's hard to explain, but if you start messing around with it, you'll know what I mean.
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post #26 of 78 Old 05-20-2008, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapmonkey View Post

Hey CJ - I used the old trusty Google Sketchup for all my drawings. The different 3d planes can sometimes get confusing.... it's hard to explain, but if you start messing around with it, you'll know what I mean.


I've played with it a bit, but I found I was spending too much time working to figure out HOW to use it and not enough time actually *doing* the design.

I didn't invest enough time in it to get too far, but I like your drawing, and was thinking about doing something similar (each circuit a different color).

Thanks for the tip.

Also, congrats on the progress. Your space will surely be worth the time. $6k! WAY too much! Time to get a book and dig in!

CJ

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post #27 of 78 Old 06-25-2008, 09:14 PM
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I hear that you've been busy trying to figure out how to grow your space to make it on par with CurtisG's, but come on...no update in a month?

I just spent over two hours updating my thread, so I figured now I get to pick on you for a while.



So...what's been happening in your space?

CJ

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post #28 of 78 Old 06-26-2008, 08:30 AM
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We need to start calling you CheapandSlowMonkey.

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post #29 of 78 Old 06-26-2008, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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We need to start calling you CheapandSlowMonkey.

Ouch. OKAY! I will commit to showing some results this weekend. Maybe even tonight if I find some time. And I told myself that I wasn't going to be one of these slackers. Of course, I also told myself that the whole process would take 2 months, tops.... You'd think I would have learned from the experiences posted on here! I'm not like "those other guys." Wrong.
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post #30 of 78 Old 06-26-2008, 09:33 AM
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Looking good!

Rinker Family Cinema Construction Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=Rinker
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