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post #1 of 122 Old 11-22-2008, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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*** I decided to a a "current progress" picture to my first post ***



So, here we go. I'm not sure the wife knows what I've gotten her into, but she will soon.

I'd absolutely welcome any comments and unsolicited advice for this project as I've never come close to anything of the scope. I've done plenty of reading here for a number of years but I think until you get your hands dirty it's hard to really visualize the process.

Notes:

1. I plan on doing as much soundproofing as possible: GG, DD, RSIC on the ceiling.

2. Component so far:

- Paradigm Studio 60, Studio CC, Studio ADPs, Studio 40's (rears).
- Onkyo 805
- EasyButton IXL 18", Behringer EP2500, Behringer EQ
- PS3, XBOX360, HTPC
- No Projector selected yet
- Screen will be an AT one in the false wall. Originally I had planned a laminate DIY screen, but I think I am switching this.



I'll add some pictures soon, but I'm hoping that the experts here can help me with some questions before I go to HD tomorrow to take advntage of a sale:

1. Is it easy to frame a double drywall style wall under a beam and amongst the beam support posts?

2. If I am doing DD/GG and weaving the insulation in between the studs, how do I decide what width of insulation I use? My understanding is that Roxul Safe n Sound is the best way to go here?

3. I will framing over the storage area, so do I need a DD/GG wall all along that length? (The North Wall).

4. Should I just get a standard 6'8" door? I have a full eight feet under the joists and 7'3" under the beam in which I might integrate the on the south side of the theater area.

5. Any reason to not use Dri Core? I'm willing to give up the 7/8" for a comfortable floor.

I'm sure I'll have a ton more questions!
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post #2 of 122 Old 11-22-2008, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Screen Wall:


From entrance area looking NW to the storage area.



The HVAC and water lines I will have to figure a way to frame around:



Possible area for an external equipment rack. I like hte location because heat will not build up in an enclosed space.



Some ceiling hot air supplies I will need to switch to flexduct:

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post #3 of 122 Old 11-22-2008, 10:17 PM
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I'd definately recommend the Dricore. I went with a 2x2 subfloor with insulation and its fantastic. Maybe thats why my room eats subwoofers for breakfast...

I went with pink R-12 in my walls.

I look forward to the build and like I said, feel free to come on over to learn from my mistakes. Not having zonal lighting is one of my biggest mistakes.

Cheers,

Wes
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post #4 of 122 Old 11-22-2008, 10:38 PM
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Subwoofer build info/linkage?
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post #5 of 122 Old 11-22-2008, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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post #6 of 122 Old 11-22-2008, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Why pink R-12 instead of the Roxul Safe n Sound?
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post #7 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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My trip to HD today was a success:

I picked up three Jeld Wen ProCore Quiet Doors. I went with the 6 9/16" jamb, which I decided might be better to fit on a DD wall. I just went with a flush slab primed. I suspect the whole thing will be covered in treatments anyway.

I sure wish I didn't have to punch three door holes in my theater but I see no way around it. I don't want to DD/GG my whole storage area and create an odd-shaped theater room.

I also got 146 panels of Dri Core. I hope they arrive soon!
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post #8 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 01:49 PM
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I would use staggered stud wall on the sides of the theatre but, it looks like some of that is already framed out. No, you don't have to DD/GG the entire storage area. Since you said you are going to use RSIC clips on the ceiling to decouple the drywall from the floor joists above I would also recommend decoupling the walls from the floor joists as well using the RSIC-DC04 clips, however, it comes back to your walls on a couple of the sides is already up and insulated. Why is Roxul safe n sound the best way to go? There was a big discussion on this before. Save money and just go with standard insulation in the walls. R-13 or 3-1/2" thick is fine and R-19 for in between the floor joists. Good luck!
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post #9 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBuster View Post

Why pink R-12 instead of the Roxul Safe n Sound?

Only because I had it around
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post #10 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 02:05 PM
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Oh ya, I have R-40 in my ceiling.

Did you get the exterior jam that accepts weatherstrip? The solid core door does a pretty good job of keeping sound in. I dont have DD but you should come by and see how it sounds upstairs. Highs (>~100 Hz) dont get upstairs hardly at all. You have absolutely no chance of acoustically containing that subwoofer IMHO.

Wes
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post #11 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

I would use staggered stud wall on the sides of the theatre but, it looks like some of that is already framed out. No, you don't have to DD/GG the entire storage area. Since you said you are going to use RSIC clips on the ceiling to decouple the drywall from the floor joists above I would also recommend decoupling the walls from the floor joists as well using the RSIC-DC04 clips, however, it comes back to your walls on a couple of the sides is already up and insulated. Why is Roxul safe n sound the best way to go? There was a big discussion on this before. Save money and just go with standard insulation in the walls. R-13 or 3-1/2" thick is fine and R-19 for in between the floor joists. Good luck!

I was planning on taking down the existing framing and insulation that is along the exterior walls, which the builder had completed. Would it be easier to just sawzall off the nails in the top plate and put RSIC-04 clips into the vertical concrete wall?

I do have a reasonable gap between the top plate and the joists in the current setup, so I may be able to de-couple that way?
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post #12 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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After going down to look more, I'm actually now considering doing a full room-within-room arrangement.

I'd lose a few inches on each wall, but demolishing and re-building sounds like a huge PITA.
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post #13 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 02:58 PM
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I don't understand, why put a bunch of holes in your concrete? You said you have a sizeable gap between the wall top plate & the ceiling joist? Then how is the wall fastened at the top?

Here are some installation methods using the RSIC-DC04 clip.
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/..._datasheet.pdf
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post #14 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

I don't understand, why put a bunch of holes in your concrete? You said you have a sizeable gap between the wall top plate & the ceiling joist? Then how is the wall fastened at the top?

Here are some installation methods using the RSIC-DC04 clip.
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/..._datasheet.pdf


On closer inspection I realized that only some of the top cap/ floor joists have gaps...some are quite flush.
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post #15 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 09:21 PM
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Once I got to finishing my room I wished I had torn out the existing construction. I found that the extra hour and $50 it would've taken rebuild my exterior wall would've saved me time down the line.

How important is keeping the sound in? It sounds to me that it's paramount.

Wes
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post #16 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd say that sound control is pretty important to me. It falls into the category of "if you are going to do something, do it right." I also want to be able to have a low sound floor and have some freedom if/when kids come along.

Actually, I am a bit concerned about getting the walls down without nicking one of the joists. I suspect it is bad to nick a joist.

Maybe I'll chop up the top plate with my sawzall and leave little chunks of top plate still attached to the joists so that I can remove them later. It might be safer than trying to get my sawzall blade between the joist and the top plate. I prefer my kitchen sink on the current floor.
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post #17 of 122 Old 11-23-2008, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I've updated the layout to show the location of my furnace....which makes access to the utility area (in combination with my hot water tank), almost impossible without a door in behind the stairs.

I wish it weren't so....
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post #18 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 12:16 AM
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I would move those waterlines into the joist space ( I had to do this in my own basement too ) soffit wont have to be as big
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post #19 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScruffyHT View Post

I would move those waterlines into the joist space ( I had to do this in my own basement too ) soffit wont have to be as big

Is this a tricky job? Did you do it yourself or call in a plumber?
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post #20 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 02:31 PM
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Yes I did it myself and also made a tee to run hot/cold lines to the basement bathroom ... You can rent the pex crimp thingy at HD ... probably only have to cut the main lines a couple times and then feed it up into the joist space ... just be sure to shut off the main water line and open a couple taps so that you can drain the lines before you get started and make the first cut ... have a garbage can or something close by to collect the water already in the lines

I had to do that because the mechanical guys decided to load up one side of the room with main heat trunk, Cold Air Return, gas line, hot/cold lines + a 8" subsidiary line from the second furnace on the other side of the stairwell ... my 14'6" wide room would have had almost 6' of ceiling on one side and nothing on the other 8'6" ... by the time I moved all that stuff around I now have a 2' wide soffit going all around the theater
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post #21 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd be concerned about a couple of things:

1. doing something that would cause a lot of water to end up coming through the ceiling of my new theater.

2. Doing something that would prevent future development. For instance, I plan on having a bathroom just on the other side of those teleposts, and I would hate to move the water lines, then realize I should have accommodated future development. A pro might help me do that. The bathroom won't be happening any time soon, however.
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post #22 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 03:55 PM
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I am in the building industry and I have seen leaks caused by the work of " pro's " ... somehow I felt better doing it myself as I was extra careful on all connections and not rushing to get it done like guys that do it every day it has been over 6 months since I moved the water lines and nary a leak to be found

The bathroom is last on my list as well as part of a total basement development so that is why I have the waterlines roughed in there so that I can finish it later on at my leisure

If you are not confident in doing so by all means hire a plumber to do it for you or leave it where it is and frame around it.
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post #23 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I like your idea better. What are the rules on punching holes in my joists so that I can run the water lines through there?
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post #24 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 04:06 PM
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You have engineered joists like me so 2 small holes for water lines wont be a big deal ... you will have to look online or call a joist company for the regulations in your area but around here no holes larger than 4" in the web any closer than 4 feet to the end of a joist
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post #25 of 122 Old 11-24-2008, 04:35 PM
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Most "silent" joists come with pre-cut holes. You just need to bang them out with a hammer. The joists have been designed to have all of those holes punched out with no reduction in strength.

I'd prerun water across the HT and plug them off. I agree with ol' Scruffy on the pex deal, super easy and you'll end up doing a better job than the shmuck that doesnt care. Just make sure you have the right tools and materials.

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post #26 of 122 Old 11-25-2008, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm pretty sure I will be pulling down the existing walls and re-framing.

Any recommendations on how to get the bottom plates up off the concrete? I assume they are tapconed or similar right to the concrete tightly.
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post #27 of 122 Old 11-25-2008, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBuster View Post

Ok, I'm pretty sure I will be pulling down the existing walls and re-framing.

Any recommendations on how to get the bottom plates up off the concrete? I assume they are tapconed or similar right to the concrete tightly.

If they're held down with tapcons, use a BFH (sledge). If they got cute and used Liquid Nail, good luck... and again use a BFH. Sprinkling in various colorful expletives, and cursing the framing crew's mothers/ancestors/dogs helps too.

I recommend the... http://www.stanleyfubar.com/

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No project is complete until you have made a blood sacrifice to the Gods
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post #28 of 122 Old 11-25-2008, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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So you just bang them laterally until they shear?

I think I shall pick up one of those Stanley monsters. Mostly because they look frickin' cool.
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post #29 of 122 Old 11-25-2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
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So you just bang them laterally until they shear?

I think I shall pick up one of those Stanley monsters. Mostly because they look frickin' cool.

One of two things will happen:

1) the tapcon shears
2) you beat the living pulp out of the bottom plate until it splinters around the tapcon.

You might also be able to get a sawzall blade under the bottom plate (as long as there is no glue) and cut through the tapcons.

Mike
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post #30 of 122 Old 11-25-2008, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Any recommendations for my framing design.

Notably:

1. The north wall. AFAIK, I don't need staggered stud against the concrete portion, but I do need it over the storage opening. So should I build two non staggered stud walls: one for the entire length and then another to double over the storage area? Or Should I just build a staggered studd wall the entire length, including over the concrete?

2. Any recommendations on how to frame in the stairs/ teleposts/ beam. Should I just construct a wall in front of the teleposts and stairs and run it straight up to the joists? Any other users have a similar arrangment that might provide an example?
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