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post #121 of 1113 Old 04-16-2011, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Removed the HVAC lines. This is a before shot.



After. Still have to clean up the mess of wiring.

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post #122 of 1113 Old 04-17-2011, 06:45 AM
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Cool

At least your panel is close, and easily accessible, for dedicated circuits for HT.

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post #123 of 1113 Old 04-17-2011, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Cool

At least your panel is close, and easily accessible, for dedicated circuits for HT.

Unfortunately the panel is full. I bought a new subpanel to install a month ago, but just have not gotten around to installing it. I need to get it done soon though.
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post #124 of 1113 Old 04-18-2011, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Was able to get some framing done this weekend.





Used a few IB3 clips just to keep the wall square.

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post #125 of 1113 Old 04-20-2011, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm getting ready to place my order for whisperclips from the soundproofing company for the ceiling. The calculator says I need 81 clips for 3 layers of drywall and 66 for 2 layers. Does anybody know If I should order for 3 layers If I am doing a layer of OSB and 2 layers of Drywall? The osb weighs half what the drywall does and has more holding power than drywall.
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post #126 of 1113 Old 04-21-2011, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Placed my order for the clips - John at the soundproofing company said to treat it as 3 layers and calculated that I would need 100 clips.
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post #127 of 1113 Old 04-21-2011, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Back wall to the theater is framed. I framed in this corner for symmetry so it matches the doorway. I'm going to use this area in the corner for a dead vent for return air. I will have another return air dead vent in the equipment room venting near the doorway.

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post #128 of 1113 Old 04-21-2011, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I also wanted to do a dead vent with a fan that exchanges air with the rest of the basement. The only place I can put it is in this same cavity as the return air dead vent. Has anyone run more than one vent in the same cavity? There is not a bunch of room in there, but I think I have room for 2 ducts and still have plenty of room for insulation in this cavity, but I'm not sure if I would be compromising the isolation by doing this. It seems like it would be fine, but thought I would throw it out there.

Here is a close up of the cavity.

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post #129 of 1113 Old 04-21-2011, 09:51 AM
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How far away from the concrete wall did you put the studs?
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post #130 of 1113 Old 04-21-2011, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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How far away from the concrete wall did you put the studs?

They are 1 inch from the concrete wall - I didn't want to give up too much room. It would be better to leave a bit more space but I am putting up the OSB which should prevent any racking of the studs. I'm also hand picking studs which should also help prevent any bowed studs from touching the wall.

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post #131 of 1113 Old 04-21-2011, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm almost done with the framing. I had planned to run all the cables in the soffit and then through a conduit to the stage, but the speaker cable is pretty thick so I decided I'll run the cable while I still have the wall opened otherwise I'll have to run a large conduit.

The cable is Canare 4S11 star quad.

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post #132 of 1113 Old 04-22-2011, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I started thinking about the wiring last night and realized wiring in the stage might be problematic when it is filled with sand. I was planning on at least a couple of outlets in the stage. Does the wiring need to be in a conduit within the riser so it is not in contact with the sand?
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post #133 of 1113 Old 04-22-2011, 07:00 AM
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You should be good with type UF cable (underground feeder). It's approved here to install in the walls of houses that are made of dirt (adobe)

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post #134 of 1113 Old 04-22-2011, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You should be good with type UF cable (underground feeder). It's approved here to install in the walls of houses that are made of dirt (adobe)

Does anyone know of any other installs that have wiring (AC wiring or low voltage) in the stage filled with sand. I'm just wondering if this is not a best practice.

I would like to have some outlets in the front of the stage rather than the screenwall. I also have a couple of speaker cables that I want to come out of a box in front of the stage for floorstanding speakers. I know that having floor standing speakers is not common in front of the stage, but I do not recall seeing electrical outlets in the stage.
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post #135 of 1113 Old 04-23-2011, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Today I was moving slow. I must have spent half the day walking around the room staring at stuff. Mostly trying to figure out where all the HVAC is going to go. Ive got the entire theater framed now except for the doorway.

I also built this access panel for one of the waste line cleanouts. I checked to make sure you could get a pipe wrench in there. It is not easy, but it is possible. I realized that after I was done this is going to be in the way of the stage. I do not really see a way around it though. I'll probably have s step here and try and come up 6 inches which will still leave access - Its going tough to get a pipe wrench in there with only 6 inches though.



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post #136 of 1113 Old 04-24-2011, 07:28 AM
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Low voltage is fine to go in the sand/stage. AC however wouldn't be code to go through sand directly, but in a conduit it would be fine. Biggest thing for AC on the stage would be the orientation of the box (facing sideways or facing up). Just make sure you get a metal outlet floor box (in case it's stood on) and you'll be fine for AC on the stage if that's what you're referring to, but I'm not sure that is what you're looking for. Only other thing to be cautious of for AC going through sand is if you're going to be running near 70% amp capacity of a wire for more than a few minutes. If you're running close to this border, make sure your conduit lets the wire breath a little.
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post #137 of 1113 Old 04-24-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distoga View Post



........... Only other thing to be cautious of for AC going through sand is if you're going to be running near 70% amp capacity of a wire for more than a few minutes. If you're running close to this border, make sure your conduit lets the wire breath a little.



The NEC doesn't contain ambiguous language such as that, could you elaborate?

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post #138 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 09:47 AM
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Code states you should never run more load than 80% of what a cable is rated for (ie, if it's 14 guage at 120v you shouldn't run a full 1800 watts but instead no more than 1440 watts.

I personally like a little extra headroom if possible because: 1) wire heating & cooling in vast amounts over 50+ years will cause fatigue in the metal and casing. 2) a heated wire to it's rated level will have more resistance and could /theoretically/ alter performance of equipment running off it. 3) if you ever need to pull wire again (say you want to add more equipment or a 220 volt subs and need another circuit) or you need to modify something, having some space/ability to do that can be helpful. With all these added up, having conduit and giving the wiring a little extra buffer doesn't hurt and costs just a few dollars and 10 minutes if that. Wishing you had some headroom for future use I've found is worth its weight in gold, so imho I'd go past code and have the flexibility that could really come in handy later.
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post #139 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 09:55 AM
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WOW! Kick ASS install! Very clean, very creative.
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post #140 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distoga View Post

Code states you should never run more load than 80% of what a cable is rated for (ie, if it's 14 guage at 120v you shouldn't run a full 1800 watts but instead no more than 1440 watts.

I personally like a little extra headroom if possible because: 1) wire heating & cooling in vast amounts over 50+ years will cause fatigue in the metal and casing. 2) a heated wire to it's rated level will have more resistance and could /theoretically/ alter performance of equipment running off it. 3) if you ever need to pull wire again (say you want to add more equipment or a 220 volt subs and need another circuit) or you need to modify something, having some space/ability to do that can be helpful. With all these added up, having conduit and giving the wiring a little extra buffer doesn't hurt and costs just a few dollars and 10 minutes if that. Wishing you had some headroom for future use I've found is worth its weight in gold, so imho I'd go past code and have the flexibility that could really come in handy later.


I'm not sure, however you may be referring to a breaker's rating of 80%, or conduit fill de-rating.

This was what puzzled me;
Quote:


make sure your conduit lets the wire breath a little.

Regardless, one should always dedicate each receptacle, thereby allowing the ultimate flexibility down the road. Never daisy chain, always bring each one to the nearest JB, then if needs change, it's easy as pie. I prefer up-sized, dedicated and isolated home runs. Thus, the ultimate in flexibility.

Quote:


wire heating & cooling in vast amounts over 50+ years will cause fatigue in the metal and casing

No offense, however this is a non-issue if the installation is correctly performed. With aluminum usage in the 70s, expansion and contraction/dis-similar metals became an issue. With contemporary copper wiring, either solid or stranded, this is no longer a concern.


Quote:


Wishing you had some headroom for future use I've found is worth its weight in gold, so imho I'd go past code and have the flexibility that could really come in handy later

You're absolutely correct. The NEC is a minimum standard, not an installation guideline. My ample A/V circuits are dedicated, isolated, and over-sized

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post #141 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Does anyone know of any other installs that have wiring (AC wiring or low voltage) in the stage filled with sand. I'm just wondering if this is not a best practice.

I would like to have some outlets in the front of the stage rather than the screenwall. I also have a couple of speaker cables that I want to come out of a box in front of the stage for floorstanding speakers. I know that having floor standing speakers is not common in front of the stage, but I do not recall seeing electrical outlets in the stage.

I'm not familiar with any, however the UF cable suggestion seems like a good idea. As long as each run came back to a common point, whereby you could re-dedicate the circuits etc, everything will be fine. These outlets in question, what loads would they be carrying?

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post #142 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

WOW! Kick ASS install! Very clean, very creative.

It is pretty cool, isn't it?

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post #143 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post
I'm not familiar with any, however the UF cable suggestion seems like a good idea. As long as each run came back to a common point, whereby you could re-dedicate the circuits etc, everything will be fine. These outlets in question, what loads would they be carrying?
The outlets in the stage will not have any permanent loads on them. They would just be for convenience for vacuum etc. I could easily run what I need from the outlets that will be in the wall columns, but I would need 2 outlets on the front wall to meet code and am hoping the stage would satisfy this requirement. Since I will have a false wall in front and bass traps in the corners accessing plugs in the front wall would be difficult.

My gear will all be located in a room off the theater and I will have plenty of dedicated lines. I have a 100 amp subpanel waiting to be installed for the remaining theater / basement needs.
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post #144 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

WOW! Kick ASS install! Very clean, very creative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

It is pretty cool, isn't it?
Thanks for the kind words. I cant wait to get this finished to try it out.
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post #145 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I just went and checked out the Underground Feeder cable. A 100 foot roll is the same price as a 250 foot roll of regular romex. It would be cheaper for me to just run conduit if that is an option.
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post #146 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

It is pretty cool, isn't it?

I love the manifolds, more thn just plain 'ol wooden cubes. I love all that stuffing... over the top. Basically a true sealed box, well built.

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I hope you can get a hold of some Fi drivers - I'd be interested in seeing how they would work out in that space. My IB chamber is about 400 cubic feet. I am about 8x vas with 4 FI IB18's in a stuffed enclosure. I've wondered how well it would perform with 8 drivers.

If you stick two 14" ports in there 2" long (3" if two free ends) for a 13Hz tuning, or two 16" ports 4.25" long (6" if two free ends) you would be flat to 11Hz, as that spike at 12.8Hz is within 3dB and is down so low that you wouldn't hear it anyway.

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post #147 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 08:59 PM
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yeah but look at the drop off below tuning. why give up the 5hz stuff?

Great build by the way, I love the look of IB installations!

If I had a dedicated room I would do that. Although i may supplant my IB dreams with a diy fan sub like andreas m is doing.

Matt

"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live." - George Carlin
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post #148 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

I'm not sure, however you may be referring to a breaker's rating of 80%, or conduit fill de-rating.

I've felt some wiring get hot in the past, copper wiring, but I'm no electrician, just an observer and googler who probably knows just enough to be dangerous. You definitely sound more experienced than me so I'll go with what you say. I did the electrical in my theater and backyard (as well as 50+ cat6 runs and 72 security zone runs) and just from that I've learned conduit can come in very handy and it was worth every penny.
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post #149 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post


If you stick two 14" ports in there 2" long (3" if two free ends) for a 13Hz tuning, or two 16" ports 4.25" long (6" if two free ends) you would be flat to 11Hz, as that spike at 12.8Hz is within 3dB and is down so low that you wouldn't hear it anyway.

I've seen your ported towers and audiovideoholics build which would be essentially an IB with roughly 1-2x vas. That was the reason for my curiosity as to how audiovideoholics build would perform because for IB you want a minimum of 4x vas. If I were to add any additional drivers I would not want to go below that minimum. I also prefer the gradual rolloff of the sealed IB. My prior subs were tuned to 16 hz. I'm not planning on playing these at crazy levels so I should have headroom to EQ for flat response below 10hz. I guess I'll see where I end up after everything is up and running.
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post #150 of 1113 Old 04-25-2011, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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If I had a dedicated room I would do that. Although i may supplant my IB dreams with a diy fan sub like andreas m is doing.

Matt

I would love to do the rotary sub - I'm waiting to see how his turns out, but I'm afraid that it is going to be beyond my DIY Skill level. I cant justify the 20k or so for the Thigpen rotary.
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