DIY Custom-Printed Movie Poster Acoustic Panels - cheap! - Page 110 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3271 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by scotty3x3 View Post
So here is a screenshot of what I'm seeing. I set the PPI as low as I could to make the image as large as I could and it's still not filling up the whole canvas according to the preview.
It's based on your original image size and PPI. It seems that your image is 28x19 at 150ppi.
Since they print by the yard, this is what a yard will look like. They will print one yard and you will have a lot of white around.
So if you have 2 small images, you can print one yard with 2 images.
They also do by the half yard or whatever it s called :-)

Now let s take an example, if your original image is 54x30, it will cover most of the yard.
One yard of Comb cotton is 54x36. You can print a stamp size image on it, you will just waste of a lot fabric.
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post #3272 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by xylem View Post
It's based on your original image size and PPI. It seems that your image is 28x19 at 150ppi.
Since they print by the yard, this is what a yard will look like. They will print one yard and you will have a lot of white around.
So if you have 2 small images, you can print one yard with 2 images.
They also do by the half yard or whatever it s called :-)

Now let s take an example, if your original image is 54x30, it will cover most of the yard.
Ah ok. So when I size my images to what I want, I shouldn't worry if there is a lot of white around it because the actual print will be the size I actually want and I will just have a lot of extra fabric. Am I understanding you correctly?
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post #3273 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by scotty3x3 View Post
Ah ok. So when I size my images to what I want, I shouldn't worry if there is a lot of white around it because the actual print will be the size I actually want and I will just have a lot of extra fabric. Am I understanding you correctly?
Yes, see the post of Witchboard, he printed 3 posters in one yard.
They will print one yard or 2 yards or 3.... so if your design is stamp size picture, they will still print 1 yard and send you 1 full yard (with a lot of white).
Now if you want to print 100x50, you will use 2 yards.

Just make sure the picture is not "cut" in the preview and the actual size that is displayed is correct.
But at the end they will print a full yard.
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post #3274 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by xylem View Post
Yes, see the post of Witchboard, he printed 3 posters in one yard.
Just for clarification, those are two yard prints.
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post #3275 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Witchboard View Post
Just for clarification, those are two yard prints.
Thanks!
Also, you could have mentioned that the stamp can be large to.

"World’s biggest postage stamp currently is Mother of Emirates postage stamp issued by UAE in 2013. It also holds the Guinness World Records for the largest postage stamp. It is 1.36 X 1.77 meters! " (4.2ft x 5.8 ft)

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post #3276 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 01:46 PM
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Or.....

You can always send me a PM, I'll give you my email, you send me the file and the details above that you want done, I run it through my enlargement software, slice it however you want, add a border, and send them all back to you ready to upload...

All for free.

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post #3277 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Witchboard View Post
Prints came in. I have nothing to compare them to so they look great to me. I won't have an opportunity to get them mounted for a couple of weeks though. Even the Totoro came out well considering it was such a low resolution image to begin with, but I think since there's little detail and limited colors helped big time with that.
YAY! I've been waiting for these to come in so that you could share your pictures. Totoro's original image was pretty small at 483KB. Glad that it worked out.
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post #3278 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 05:02 PM
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Getting ready. Xylem is helping me out to build which is great.... can't wait to get these up. They will be huge. 53 wide x 72 in.

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post #3279 of 4356 Old 10-10-2017, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rflores2323 View Post
Getting ready. Xylem is helping me out to build which is great.... can't wait to get these up. They will be huge. 53 wide x 72 in.

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I was wondering when you were going to print these up. Looking at my files, I finished those up on August 28th for you, and like I mentioned back then, I thought that they were great choices. I've been anxiously waiting about 6 weeks to see the prints, now you just need to get them framed, hung, and more pictures posted!
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post #3280 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rflores2323 View Post
Getting ready. Xylem is helping me out to build which is great.... can't wait to get these up. They will be huge. 53 wide x 72 in.

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Is that the performance knit from MyFabricDesigns? If so just curious, how did the final printed size compare to the image size you sent in. Mine were off quite a bit in both length and width. I need to get more printed but am trying to figure out how much to adjust the scaling in he image so the print comes out the right size.

Thanks!
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post #3281 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by djarchow View Post
Is that the performance knit from MyFabricDesigns? If so just curious, how did the final printed size compare to the image size you sent in. Mine were off quite a bit in both length and width. I need to get more printed but am trying to figure out how much to adjust the scaling in he image so the print comes out the right size.

Thanks!
yes performance knit. I had nickbuol do the images for me. They came out the correct sizes so I had no problem.

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post #3282 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by djarchow View Post
Is that the performance knit from MyFabricDesigns? If so just curious, how did the final printed size compare to the image size you sent in. Mine were off quite a bit in both length and width. I need to get more printed but am trying to figure out how much to adjust the scaling in he image so the print comes out the right size.

Thanks!
I did some recently with PK from MFD, original size was 24x48 and 12x24. They were off by 0.25 to almost 1inch BUT since the fabric is stretchy, I was able to adjust when installing the fabric on the frame without affecting the ratio or design. So unless you are going to do extreme size panels, I would suggest you to go with a "normal" set up.

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post #3283 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 09:52 AM
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yes performance knit. I had nickbuol do the images for me. They came out the correct sizes so I had no problem.

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You told me different:

Original size: 54 wide x 74 height
ALL of them measure width 53 in and height 72 in


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post #3284 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 10:04 AM
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You told me different:

Original size: 54 wide x 74 height
ALL of them measure width 53 in and height 72 in

You are correct as per above. I think the strechiness would make them the correct size.. But laying flat they are off a bit as per above.
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post #3285 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
An air gap is super simple. Literally it is just meaning that there is an empty space between the wall and the back of the insulation inside your panel.

So if you have a 2" panel with 2" of material, then you would want to put something on the wall at the top and bottom of the frame to hold it away from the wall, thus creating an air gap... OR... make a frame that is thicker than the 2" of insulation material... Let's say you made it out of 1x4 material (which is really .75" x 3.5"). Put 2" of insulation at the front edge of that 3.5" thick frame, and you have a built in 1.5" 'air gap' between the insulation and the back wall. So about half of the frame has insulation, and almost half of it is empty.

Sounds like it wouldn't help, but the massive acoustics topic here at AVS can get you into the science of it.

For absorption panels, you really can use about any kind of material. I've seen professional absorption panels covered in suede before, which is pretty thick and seems non-breathable, but does work. Personally, I would rather have the insulation do the absorption job and not the fabric, so I used some pretty acoustically transparent fabric (Performance Knit form Spoonflower). As long as your photos aren't copyrighted, then you can use the same fabric.

"Best" absorption material is not super straight forward as there are things like cost that would have to be factored it. The defacto standard that everything else is measured against is 2" OC703. There are other alternatives that perform almost as well while saving a few bucks.

The main things that you want specific for this kind of project is that it needs to be rigid insulation. Something that isn't going to sag or give your panels a "pot belly" look, plus the rigid stuff has the proper density for sound absorption.

I can't believe that people think that bath towels are actually going to properly improve your room's acoustics. There are also a lot of people that still believe that thick curtains are good for acoustics, and that putting cheap egg-crate foam on your walls is the right thing as well.

What all of those ideas (and videos) focus on is the upper frequency echo only. That is easily noticeably in a video and gets lots of hits, but doesn't mean that it is what you want. Those things are barely touching the middle frequencies where you really need to control sound reflections to improve key things like dialog. Getting rid of just the upper frequency echos makes for a good video, but not for a good listening room.

Besides, the insulation isn't THAT expensive to do it right.
Nick thank you so much for your explanations, which are very clear to understand.
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post #3286 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 11:13 AM
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Welcome!

As Nick Mentioned, I would avoid bath towel... If you do it, do it right. You may find some local dealers, or wholesalers that carry Owen Corning (OC703), Roxul (rigid mineral wool), John Manville (rigid mineral wool 1260) or other. Or you can order online as well.

I like the attached schema about the "air gap" principal, if you are planning on doing it, make sure you cover the back of the panel with fabric, and not paper or "solid" material. Very simple explanation: the "sound wave" will pass twice through the insulation.
Please DO cover the back, it will limit the possibility of the insulation to spread around. For example, I use Joann's fabric, speaker fabric.

From MyFabricDesign the Performance Knit is good as well, but be aware of the stretchiness of the fabric when doing the installation, Comb Cotton is a good one to start with.

I think most of us use a wood frame, 1x3, 1x4.
Technically you can just wrapped the insulation by itself, but it may not be as rigid, and brings problem with the picture not looking good, and you may have some trouble finding an easy way to hang it. Long term, the wood frame is the best solution.
Another really great explanation, and even with pics!
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post #3287 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 11:17 AM
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Well here hopefully comes a good question. Is there comparison sound absorption data that compares 4" deep absorption panels (2" high end absorption panels + 2" air gap) with wool tapestry and 2" absorption panel that's bare (on encasing) behind the tapestry?

We are hoping that hanging a tapestry with wool panel behind it will be effective sound absorption when compared to acoustic paneling.
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post #3288 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 12:50 PM
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I was able to get everything finished up and hung on the walls - sorry about the low quality photos, just grabbed my phone and snapped a few pics. I was impressed on the noticeable difference it has made in the sound - everything sounds a bit tighter. I like the darker posters significantly more than those with the white background so I may go back change them out with updates images.

Thanks again to all that have contributed to this thread - I learned a lot before embarking on this project and would have not seen it through without the feedback from others
Those light sabre sconces look great! What did you use to attach them to the wall? We have the full set of Disney Store battle ones and I bet the boys would love to have them up on the wall like that.


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post #3289 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 01:10 PM
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Those light sabre sconces look great! What did you use to attach them to the wall? We have the full set of Disney Store battle ones and I bet the boys would love to have them up on the wall like that.
Thanks, OJ. There are some purpose-built lightsaber holders out there - my wife found some on ETSY. However, I went with some inexpensive MagLite holders. Bought them off Amazon for ~$6.00.

https://www.amazon.com/Maglite-Unive...maglite+holder
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post #3290 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 01:30 PM
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Thanks, OJ. There are some purpose-built lightsaber holders out there - my wife found some on ETSY. However, I went with some inexpensive MagLite holders. Bought them off Amazon for ~$6.00.

https://www.amazon.com/Maglite-Unive...maglite+holder
Amazing... Thank you! And they hold nice and strong? I'll have to compare the sabres we have with my big Mag Lite to see if they're close.

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post #3291 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 01:40 PM
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You are correct as per above. I think the strechiness would make them the correct size.. But laying flat they are off a bit as per above.
My first ones (2'x4') were almost an inch too long in the stretchy direction but were almost an inch too small in the less stretchy direction. I almost had to tear the fabric in that direction to get it to look good on the frame...and it still looks worse than I would like. Hence my desire to adjust the sizing on my next batch.
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Amazing... Thank you! And they hold nice and strong? I'll have to compare the sabres we have with my big Mag Lite to see if they're close.

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They fit tight around the hilts and seem to hold well - it takes a bit of force to remove them. Not sure how they would hold up long-term if they were being taken off and put back up on a regular basis. These are not taken off the wall that often - just when there happens to be some teenage boys in the basement or some of my friends have had a few beers and decide to act like teenage boys.

Two of the brackets are in studs and I used some drywall anchors behind the third - have not seen that the brackets are any less tight to the walls since when they went up - they used to be in a different location and I never had a problem.

Not sure which sabers your boys have or if they differ in dimensions, mine are the Force Fx Lightsabers that were available a few years back.
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post #3293 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 02:05 PM
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My first ones (2'x4') were almost an inch too long in the stretchy direction but were almost an inch too small in the less stretchy direction. I almost had to tear the fabric in that direction to get it to look good on the frame...and it still looks worse than I would like. Hence my desire to adjust the sizing on my next batch.
Did you contact MFD about it?

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post #3294 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 02:09 PM
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Did you contact MFD about it?
I did but they did not commit to any standard amount of difference between printed and the image size. They did say that with similar size images on the same fabric the difference should be somewhat consistent.
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Okay, I had some time and mounted one. I didn't have much trouble dealing with the stretch, though I did find out I made a stupid mistake. The black border which I allotted 4.5" for, well, I forgot to divide that by 2, so I only have 2.25" on each side. So, looks like I'll be trimming the frame on the outside with something to cover up my shortage near the back of the frame. Not sure if I'm going to be using wood, material or something else. Any suggestions?
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post #3296 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
Right on.

People sometimes ask, well how does nothing = more absorption. Well, technically it doesn't and it does at the same time, but there is more going on.

The sound energy goes through the insulation, and a lot of it is absorbed, then it hits at air gap and there are 2 things happening here. One is that the gap prevents the energy being absorbed in the insulation from being transferred to the wall via physical contact. This is the same concept used for soundproofing a room. "Decouple" the insulation from the wall if possible. Now, this impact is actually pretty minimal, but in the acoustics thread on AVS, it has been proven, even with those of us with our frames directly on the wall for looks, there is an improvement.

However, the biggest bang for your buck (or lack of buck since air is free) is that this allows for longer wavelengths of sound, and thus lower frequencies, to receive some absorption, That is the biggest benefit of thicker insulation is that it grabs a hold of more of those longer wavelengths and tames them. A similar effect is achieved simply by increasing the distance of the front face of the insulation and the wall that the sound wave will eventually bounce off of. It isn't 100% identical to if that air gap was filled with more insulation, but it does get pretty close and without the added cost of the thicker material.

So while upper frequencies will be minimally impacted by this method (they are already getting absorbed nicely without an air gap), the lower the frequency, the more that it can be absorbed. A lower frequency that passed right through with minimal absorption, now may have a nice bump in absorption. It is this effect that turns this into better "broadband" absorption panels.

Of note, while this works with 2" insulation and a similar air gap (any air gap helps), the improvement diminishes the thinner the insulation and the smaller the air gap, so while 2" of insulation and a 2" air gap is almost as good as 4" of insulation, if you take 1" of insulation, and a 1" air gap, you won't be very close to the same as if it was 2" of insulation. There is some heavy science there that others have calculated out.

The same concept works with corner bass traps. Now I have front corners that are crammed full of insulation, but just as effective is if you put a 4" thick panel with 4" of insulation from floor to ceiling, and straddle the corner. There is a triangle shaped air gap behind this, and it has been proven by others to be a really good bass trap without filling the corner solid with insulation.
Nick, this is incredibly helpful. I have a few questions, if you will bear with me:

(1) For a wall panel, why not just use 4" of insulation? Cost? How much extra does 4" insulation cost for the typical panel size? Do you recommend a 4" piece, or two 2" pieces (if there's a difference)?

(2) For the wall panel, is it better to use a frame that is flush with the wall, or should the frame of the panel have spacers? In other words, I could use 1x4s to build the frame, which actually are 3.5" deep, and then add 1 inch spacers in key spots so that most of the frame will not sit flush with the wall. Is that better or worse?

(3) For a corner base trap, how wide does the face of the 4" insulation panel need to be? Is there a cheat sheet of recommended dimensions?

Thanks!

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post #3297 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue View Post
Nick, this is incredibly helpful. I have a few questions, if you will bear with me:

(1) For a wall panel, why not just use 4" of insulation? Cost? How much extra does 4" insulation cost for the typical panel size? Do you recommend a 4" piece, or two 2" pieces (if there's a difference)?

(2) For the wall panel, is it better to use a frame that is flush with the wall, or should the frame of the panel have spacers? In other words, I could use 1x4s to build the frame, which actually are 3.5" deep, and then add 1 inch spacers in key spots so that most of the frame will not sit flush with the wall. Is that better or worse?

(3) For a corner base trap, how wide does the face of the 4" insulation panel need to be? Is there a cheat sheet of recommended dimensions?

Thanks!
Some quick answers:

(1) 4" of acoustical insulation costs quite a bit more than 2". We aren't talking standard household insulation, but rigid insulation like OC703, Roxul Rockboard, etc. 2" OC703 is about 40% less cost than 4" OC703 for example. So a single 4" piece is still cheaper than two 2" pieces stuck together, but you still get really close performance with a 2" and a 2" (or close) air gap without the extra money. If you have the extra dollars, then by all means go with 4" of rigid insulation. Does not matter if that is a single 4" thick piece or two 2" pieces.

(2) Not 100% sure that I follow here, but I think that I do. I used 1x4 material for my side wall panels (2" of OC703 and a 1.5" air gap) and 1x6 material for a wide back wall panel (4" of OC703 and a 1.5" air gap). They are butted right up against the wall and it has been discussed elsewhere here on AVS that the solid wood frames against the wall actually doesn't matter vs when people try to use something more porous, drill large holes into the sides, or make their frames 2" and put spacers for creating an air gap. The reason is that those wood frames are actually reflecting sound back away from the listening area, sort of like diffusing it, and many times they hit the wood panel, and reflect against the wall and away, so that sound energy is actually losing its strength with every bounce, and like I said it is going away from the listening area anyway. Spacers can certainly work too, I just didn't want anything "floating" on my wall, but it certainly works too.
People have asked me if you need an air gap that matches the thickness of the insulation, and the answer is a solid no. Any air gap will help to capture deeper frequencies. The thicker the material & air gap combination, the deeper you can absorb. Now there is a point of "failure" here. At some point, if your air gap is really big, then the sound wave can pass through the front, bounce off of the wall, and then completely miss going back through the insulation again. Sure you could make larger panels, but again the bigger the panel, and the larger the air gap, the more intrusive into the room they will be. I went with 1.5" air gaps because it was convenient. My rear panel being 5.5" thick is a pretty deep panel. I wouldn't want something like that on my side walls.

(3) I've heard of people just taking the stock 24" x 48" rigid insulation panel (4" thick of course) and just straddling the corner with the panel in a vertical orientation. By that I mean for an 8 foot ceiling, you would only use 2 sheets. Some people have turned things sideways and use 4 sheets for an 8 foot ceiling and you should be able to trap a lot deeper bass. A 4 foot wide sheet will come out in to your room a ways, but is a better acoustical configuration if you can swing the space and the cost being twice what the vertical method is.
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post #3298 of 4356 Old 10-11-2017, 08:34 PM
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Well here hopefully comes a good question. Is there comparison sound absorption data that compares 4" deep absorption panels (2" high end absorption panels + 2" air gap) with wool tapestry and 2" absorption panel that's bare (on encasing) behind the tapestry?

We are hoping that hanging a tapestry with wool panel behind it will be effective sound absorption when compared to acoustic paneling.
My opinion is that this would work perfectly fine. There are absorption panels out there that use much less acoustically transparent material than wool. The sound just passes through the tapestry, which is fairly dense and should grab some of the sound energy, and then the panel works on whatever gets through.

This is similar to when people put acoustical insulation on the walls and then cover the entire wall in fabric. Same idea, just wool tapestry and not your whole wall.


PS. I saw your PM and have your email. I won't be able to work on things today, but will add your items to my queue and get to them in the next day or so hopefully. (I just got back from a week long work project trip to Denver where I was putting in 14 hour days, and then was traveling again today for work to a city 2 hours away. I've been trying to catch up on things both for work and for things like artwork, but am about to call it a night tonight. I finished up 10 images, most with edits, just tonight.)
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post #3299 of 4356 Old 10-13-2017, 10:52 AM
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I can believe it! I found the ONLY local fabric printer in the Gulf Coast region, and they live 10 minutes from me!

Can polyester be used as the material to cover absorption panels? Does polyester absorb or reflect sound? This printer only prints on polyester, because they mainly print on T-Shirts but can print items/photos as large as 2'X4', but only on polyester.
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post #3300 of 4356 Old 10-13-2017, 12:54 PM
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I can believe it! I found the ONLY local fabric printer in the Gulf Coast region, and they live 10 minutes from me!

Can polyester be used as the material to cover absorption panels? Does polyester absorb or reflect sound? This printer only prints on polyester, because they mainly print on T-Shirts but can print items/photos as large as 2'X4', but only on polyester.
It doesn't really mean anything "polyester", they have 100s ways to put the fabric together (Performance knit is polyester, so is Satin, Performance Piqué, Chiffon, Fleece...) It can be thick, thin, breathable or no...

Also, you need to know what type of print method they use... Direct Printing, transfer, dying method, ... it's very important, you cannot use a basic transfer, or "sticker" printing method... you need some type of dying process, where the color, molecule will bound with the fiber...
Usually transfer to tshirt method doesn't work for Acoustic fabric, because they cover the fabric with the design, they add a layer.

You need to make sure the color, sharpness or other are "good".

Best advise would be to get some samples.

What is the name of the company you found?
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