The Stonewater Cinema Build Thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3091 of 3209 Old 08-04-2019, 04:46 PM
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Progress, indeed. Slow but steady!

Where did you get the sign with the name of your theater? I would love to have something like that at the top of our stairs to the theater!!
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post #3092 of 3209 Old 08-05-2019, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pkinneb View Post
You do some nice work!

Thanks for sharing the Duratex samples I am thinking about using it for my columns and baseboards and this was very helpful.

Finally where did you get your theater sign?
Thanks! My next post is the second coat photos. Some were sanded between the first and second, others received the second coat directly. I took pictures in the sunlight after the second coat dried.

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Progress, indeed. Slow but steady!

Where did you get the sign with the name of your theater? I would love to have something like that at the top of our stairs to the theater!!
A great company called Hollywood Marquees. HERE is a direct link to the marquee portion of their website. It appears they no longer sell the backlit poster frame.
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post #3093 of 3209 Old 08-05-2019, 07:56 AM
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Thanks! My next post is the second coat photos. Some were sanded between the first and second, others received the second coat directly. I took pictures in the sunlight after the second coat dried.



A great company called Hollywood Marquees. HERE is a direct link to the marquee portion of their website. It appears they no longer sell the backlit poster frame.
Thanks for the link. Those signs are not exactly cheap. Maybe for Christmas or .....
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post #3094 of 3209 Old 08-05-2019, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thanks for the link. Those signs are not exactly cheap. Maybe for Christmas or .....
IIRC, my particular marquee was about $250 (maybe $300? Can't remember). The size I ordered is no longer available. They've clearly changed up their product offerings since I originally ordered all those years ago. These new ones are larger and much more sophisticated with the chasing LED lights. Mine is on/off.

As a side note, I have a new marquee background "insert" which fully updates the theater technologies along the bottom and removes the "This theater features" verbiage in lieu of more / larger logos.

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post #3095 of 3209 Old 08-05-2019, 08:17 AM
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Hello friends.....

Well past time to post some photos of past progress. These date back to March. Pretty basic stuff, but photos nonetheless.
Welcome back sir. Movie poster turned out great I think you made a good decision on how to mount it.

Maybe it's just the angle but it almost appears to me that the Duratex looks a bit more even on the non-sealed MDF. I'll reserve judgement until the second coats.

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post #3096 of 3209 Old 08-05-2019, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Welcome back sir. Movie poster turned out great I think you made a good decision on how to mount it.
There's another reason to take this mounting approach which I haven't mentioned yet. The back being a big flat sheet of aluminum, vibrations from upstairs or when someone was coming down the steps was enough to make the back gently vibrate and produce a rattling noise. This goes away when holding the back, hence the need for rigidly mounting the back of this poster frame to the 5/8" OSB behind. It's highly likely I'll purchase a small amount of Dynamat to cover the back of the poster frame and add a few more small pan-head screw mounting points to make sure it's extra rigid. I'll probably cover the bottom stud with Dynamat as well if I have the spare material. Don't get me wrong - this poster frame is very well-built...it's just the nature of a large flat sheet of aluminum.

The last thing I wanted was to fire up all the sub drivers going into the theater room only to have this thing rattle and generally be annoying for the people outside the theater during heavy bass passages.

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Originally Posted by p3bham View Post
Maybe it's just the angle but it almost appears to me that the Duratex looks a bit more even on the non-sealed MDF. I'll reserve judgement until the second coats.
Very perceptive and all I'll say at this point (until second coat pics are posted) is that your intuition serves you well....
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post #3097 of 3209 Old 08-05-2019, 09:21 AM
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IIRC, my particular marquee was about $250 (maybe $300? Can't remember).
VERY reasonable - but not at the current almost $1000!!
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post #3098 of 3209 Old 08-05-2019, 11:40 AM
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Whoot, welcome back! (But, ah man, you got rid of Hei Hei!)
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post #3099 of 3209 Old 08-06-2019, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Duratex Color Saturation

@p3bham - here are some color saturation photos. As you correctly pointed out, the difference in 'blackness' is readily apparent to the naked eye. The more saturated black is on the natural MDF at the bottom, not the sealed MDF at the top.

Here's two photos in different types of light showing the difference after the second coat. You can see the difference on camera but it's even more apparent to the naked eye.






As far as second coat pics are concerned, I will have to retake them...not because I don't have pictures....but because nothing was labeled and it's been months since I took the pics.

Fortunately I still have the two sample boards and will take new outside photos later today or tomorrow to show the true color in daylight, including some side-by-sides between sealed and not-sealed MDF.
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post #3100 of 3209 Old 08-06-2019, 05:41 AM
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^^ I remember painting 4 sub cabinets with that stuff. After practicing and then doing the actual cabinets, I got better but I was not successful at getting all 6 side of each cabinet perfect. But since they were in dark parts of a dark room, only I knew the imperfections existed.
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post #3101 of 3209 Old 08-06-2019, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ I remember painting 4 sub cabinets with that stuff. After practicing and then doing the actual cabinets, I got better but I was not successful at getting all 6 side of each cabinet perfect. But since they were in dark parts of a dark room, only I knew the imperfections existed.
For bigger projects, the first rule of Duratex is to NOT buy the chintzy 4" roller to do the texture. Get a 12" one like THIS.

I'll explain further, but I found it easier to apply the Duratex with a 4" bristle brush just to get the coating on the MDF and then roll out with the 12" textured roller, finishing with a light "finishing stroke" over the entire side/area. Worked like a charm with zero ridges or lines, even for a large area like the backs of those 24" subs. I also had a bright LED work lamp shining on the work surface so I could work the material until it was totally smooth.

Next time I'd do the sprayable version, without question.
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post #3102 of 3209 Old 08-06-2019, 06:44 AM
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For bigger projects, the first rule of Duratex is to NOT buy the chintzy 4" roller to do the texture. Get a 12" one like THIS.
NOW he tells me

I don't see me doing any more enclosures that might require Duratex (with the possible exception of a hush box). But if I do, I now know how to do a better job!

Thanks.
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post #3103 of 3209 Old 08-07-2019, 11:26 AM
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For bigger projects, the first rule of Duratex is to NOT buy the chintzy 4" roller to do the texture. Get a 12" one like THIS.

I'll explain further, but I found it easier to apply the Duratex with a 4" bristle brush just to get the coating on the MDF and then roll out with the 12" textured roller, finishing with a light "finishing stroke" over the entire side/area. Worked like a charm with zero ridges or lines, even for a large area like the backs of those 24" subs. I also had a bright LED work lamp shining on the work surface so I could work the material until it was totally smooth.

Next time I'd do the sprayable version, without question.
+1 on that texture roller.

The only other thing I'd add is to buy a cheap 4" brush, b/c Duratex is a PITA to clean up, especially if you're doing multiple sides of multiple boxes. It sits in the brush so long it'll never come clean, so I toss 'em. Then again, I didn't dilute mine like Tim did...
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post #3104 of 3209 Old 08-07-2019, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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+1 on that texture roller.

The only other thing I'd add is to buy a cheap 4" brush, b/c Duratex is a PITA to clean up, especially if you're doing multiple sides of multiple boxes. It sits in the brush so long it'll never come clean, so I toss 'em. Then again, I didn't dilute mine like Tim did...
Hmmmm...my takeaways from this comment.... you work slow, you're lazy and everybody else is doing it wrong!

Yep, I used an el-cheapo 4" brush just to get the material from the bucket to the MDF and *generally* painted it out until even with the brush. Then I used the foam roller to really smooth it out and add the texture before a final 'finishing stroke' with the roller to remove any ridges or lines.

When I painted the boxes for real I had two other tricks to share, both of which address your post. First, I put my Duratex into a real aluminum paint can. When I was done applying a side with the 4" brush, I'd put the throat of the brush on the edge of the paint can with the bristles dangling over the paint and then used a combination of the paint can lid and a fairly damp (almost wet) shop towel to provide the weight to hold the brush in place with the high moisture environment underneath also keeping the paint on the brush from drying...at all.

And when I was done I threw the brush into a standard milk jug filled with water where I had cut the top 5 or so inches. This way I could deal with the clean-up at my leisure when I was done with the brush but not ready for clean up. My original 4" cheap brush still looks like new.....and ready for more sub boxes??

And by the way, I only slightly diluted 2 of the 8 samples for experimentation purposes only. I ended up using non-diluted for my boxes.
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post #3105 of 3209 Old 08-08-2019, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Sunshine in the forecast today. Later this morning I plan to take and post a new set of 2nd coat Duratex sample photos where I experimented with all the different techniques. More to follow.
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post #3106 of 3209 Old 08-08-2019, 06:33 AM
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and ready for more sub boxes??
So that on day one of your first theater demo, playing something like the Pods scene in War of the Worlds , your room completely collapses on itself!! I can't keep track, what is the current number subs, by size, that will eventually inhabit this space?
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post #3107 of 3209 Old 08-08-2019, 03:34 PM
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Hmmmm...my takeaways from this comment.... you work slow, you're lazy and everybody else is doing it wrong!
Hmmm, not sure if teasing me or accusing me of teasing you...

Short version: I *am* slow on stuff like finish work, I *am* lazy about cleanup, and I *hope* you guys aren't doing it wrong b/c I copy you as often as possible!!
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post #3108 of 3209 Old 08-09-2019, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Duratex Experimentation - Second Coat

To let you guys know the kinds of sacrifices I make to provide you with picture content, I took at least 3 spider webs to the face in the process of digging out these samples which were buried deep within the Stonewater Cinema boneyard. In fact, after retrieving these sample boards they were so dusty I actually had to clean them before photographing.

My hat is off to the professional photographers - especially those who shoot outdoors. It was very difficult to get photos without the sheen blowing out the samples and making them look white. Best I could do yesterday, though I might try again under different light.

As a reminder, these are the final finishes of my experiments. Descriptions for how each finish was created is associated with each sample.

1. Sanding sealer / Duratex / Sand 110 / Duratex



2. LEFT SIDE: Sanding sealer / Duratex / Duratex
TAPE LINE: Duratex / Duratex
RIGHT SIDE: Sanding sealer / Duratex / Sand 110 / Duratex



3. Sanding sealer / Duratex diluted with 5% water / Duratex



4. Sanding sealer / Duratex diluted w/5% water / Duratex diluted w/5% water



5. Duratex / Sand 110 / Duratex



6. Duratex / Duratex



7. Duratex diluted w/5% water / Duratex



8. Duratex diluted w/5% water / Duratex diluted with 5% water
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post #3109 of 3209 Old 08-09-2019, 07:16 AM
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As a reminder, these are the final finishes of my experiments. Descriptions for how each finish was created is associated with each sample.
I'm only seeing one pic - a thumbnail. Not sure if it's the post or my computer...

Roll Tide.
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Only one I can see
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post #3111 of 3209 Old 08-09-2019, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by p3bham View Post
I'm only seeing one pic - a thumbnail. Not sure if it's the post or my computer...
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Originally Posted by Luddy111dog View Post
Only one I can see
Pics fixed. Not sure what happened, but I had to re-upload all the pics.
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Just paint the things already. :P
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Pics fixed. Not sure what happened, but I had to re-upload all the pics.
Working now. My vote aligns w my first impression - Duratex/sand/Duratex. No sanding sealer. It just looks smoother to me.

Roll Tide.
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post #3114 of 3209 Old 08-09-2019, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Duratex Finishing Experimentation - Final Thoughts

So of the 8 different samples, which did I end up choosing? Very simply, #6 . Two coats of Duratex on natural MDF.

As @p3bham (aka "old eagle eyes") correctly pointed out, there was visibly better black saturation with the natural MDF vs. sealed MDF. Here's two photos taken at two different light angles. Top is sealed MDF and bottom is natural MDF.





A clearer indication of the difference - and precisely why I used a piece of painter's tape to keep one area of the sealed MDF as natural unsealed MDF - is reposted here:

2. LEFT SIDE: Sanding sealer / Duratex / Duratex
TAPE LINE: Duratex / Duratex
RIGHT SIDE: Sanding sealer / Duratex / Sand 110 / Duratex



Sanding was quick and easy, but difficult to only knock down the stipple and not sand the base layer. If you sanded through even slightly, this showed through very slightly after the second layer was applied. Impossible to photograph but caused a very slight variance you could pick up by eye.

The water dilution....was interesting. Color saturation was the same as two layers of pure Duratex. The primary difference was the 'stipple' of the diluted Duratex was more flat and rounded. This is because the foam roller created tiny stipple 'bubbles' which didn't last long but created a totally different type of look to the finished surface. It's hard to describe and maybe I'll try to take a photo of it with my DSLR to show what I'm seeing on the sample more clearly via pictures.

The last bit of advice I'd have is don't skimp on the Duratex but also don't go overboard. There's a relatively thin line between sufficient coverage and too much material. Too little and it can look splotchy with less color saturation. Too much and you'll have a harder time smoothing out the roller lines and getting a consistent finish. I found if I applied a bit too much I'd roll out my roller onto a scrap piece of MDF, essentially 'drying out' the roller of paint. When I went back to the sub box the roller soaked up the 'extra' and could easily smooth out the rest for an even finish.
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post #3115 of 3209 Old 08-09-2019, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Just paint the things already. :P
Done months ago....just trying to catch up on pictures.
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post #3116 of 3209 Old 08-12-2019, 08:09 AM
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As @p3bham (aka "old eagle eyes") correctly pointed out, there was visibly better black saturation with the natural MDF vs. sealed MDF. Here's two photos taken at two different light angles. Top is sealed MDF and bottom is natural MDF.
HAHA I'll take it. Glad you came down on that side should make (or evidently have made) them look good. Looking forward to some more updates.

Roll Tide.
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post #3117 of 3209 Old 08-13-2019, 01:53 PM
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Done months ago....just trying to catch up on pictures.
You big tease!!
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post #3118 of 3209 Old 08-13-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
.



A clearer indication of the difference - and precisely why I used a piece of painter's tape to keep one area of the sealed MDF as natural unsealed MDF - is reposted here:



2. LEFT SIDE: Sanding sealer / Duratex / Duratex

TAPE LINE: Duratex / Duratex

RIGHT SIDE: Sanding sealer / Duratex / Sand 110 / Duratex







Sanding was quick and easy, but difficult to only knock down the stipple and not sand the base layer. If you sanded through even slightly, this showed through very slightly after the second layer was applied. Impossible to photograph but caused a very slight variance you could pick up by eye.



The water dilution....was interesting. Color saturation was the same as two layers of pure Duratex. The primary difference was the 'stipple' of the diluted Duratex was more flat and rounded. This is because the foam roller created tiny stipple 'bubbles' which didn't last long but created a totally different type of look to the finished surface. It's hard to describe and maybe I'll try to take a photo of it with my DSLR to show what I'm seeing on the sample more clearly via pictures.



The last bit of advice I'd have is don't skimp on the Duratex but also don't go overboard. There's a relatively thin line between sufficient coverage and too much material. Too little and it can look splotchy with less color saturation. Too much and you'll have a harder time smoothing out the roller lines and getting a consistent finish. I found if I applied a bit too much I'd roll out my roller onto a scrap piece of MDF, essentially 'drying out' the roller of paint. When I went back to the sub box the roller soaked up the 'extra' and could easily smooth out the rest for an even finish.
I am not convinced your results would be the same if you were to spray on the duratex to the sanding sealer.

I happen to have a cab at home sealed waiting for duratex, which I will be spraying in the next couple weeks. I've done about a dozen sprayed cabs until now, this will be the first one which I sealed, so I'm interested to see how it turns out.

My sprayed boxes usually have a very very fine texture to them, one thing though which can prove difficult though are the join areas, it's tough to get those to disappear, I feel like the sanding sealer will finally solve that though.

Mind you I will be scuffing it up properly to get good adhesion.
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post #3119 of 3209 Old 08-14-2019, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I am not convinced your results would be the same if you were to spray on the duratex to the sanding sealer.

I happen to have a cab at home sealed waiting for duratex, which I will be spraying in the next couple weeks. I've done about a dozen sprayed cabs until now, this will be the first one which I sealed, so I'm interested to see how it turns out.

My sprayed boxes usually have a very very fine texture to them, one thing though which can prove difficult though are the join areas, it's tough to get those to disappear, I feel like the sanding sealer will finally solve that though.

Mind you I will be scuffing it up properly to get good adhesion.
Would you be willing to take a scrap piece of the same MDF and do a 50/50 split between natural and sealed MDF with the same spray coating and post the picture here? It would be interesting to see.

I would absolutely buy the sprayable version next time, without hesitation.

It's in the pictures but I didn't specifically mention that I used sanding sealer on any exposed MDF edges to get better finish consistency. For the two 24" subs, this was primarily with all the beveled edges. And never pictured, but I also used a fine glazing putty (red in color) to take care of any hairline gaps in the seams. Worked beautifully.
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post #3120 of 3209 Old 08-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Would you be willing to take a scrap piece of the same MDF and do a 50/50 split between natural and sealed MDF with the same spray coating and post the picture here? It would be interesting to see.



I would absolutely buy the sprayable version next time, without hesitation.



It's in the pictures but I didn't specifically mention that I used sanding sealer on any exposed MDF edges to get better finish consistency. For the two 24" subs, this was primarily with all the beveled edges. And never pictured, but I also used a fine glazing putty (red in color) to take care of any hairline gaps in the seams. Worked beautifully.
Yeah no problem I'll do it.
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