The Beast, Unleashed - Page 206 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6151 of 7035 Old 03-29-2018, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mikela View Post
Link please.


www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/

Scroll down to Dolby (immediately followed by DTS) and look for the Atmos and DTS: X designations respectively in the “Sound” column.


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post #6152 of 7035 Old 04-05-2018, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys, I was rummaging through the thread this morning, reliving memories of this theater build as I sipped my Venti Soy Chai with 2 pumps raspberry, 2 pumps caramel, no foam, no water, extra hot to 190 degrees.....


And came across this. Yikes--I forgot just how thick these drywall and green-glued walls actually are. Explains why HVAC can be going full force and nobody in the theater can tell. For anyone curious about what's behind the now-complete theater, you can sort of tall how deep the storage/mechanicals room is.




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post #6153 of 7035 Old 04-05-2018, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Regarding this theater, one of the most controversial moves (if not in this thread, then most certainly in my household) was demolishing a bathroom and moving the mechanicals to significantly increase the theater room size (original size was 18x18). I am in a retrospective state of mind, so I just want to offer a bit of advice to anyone considering making a drastic change to their living space in order to build the theater they want:


DO IT! Living without "what if's" is a priceless experience. Take whatever time you need and build your dream. I have no "what ifs" about this room. Did everything I wanted to do, and the result is 100% satisfaction with the result.


With that being said...


Special Thanks:


I really, really, really want to thank @BIGmouthinDC--this theater would NOT exist without your expertise and guidance....and patience. Patience....yes...lots and lots of it. Throughout nearly all of 2014, a decent chunk of 2015, and part of 2016, you've been the rudder that kept this build heading in the right direction. We spent a lot of time working on this room...the duration of this build didn't hit me until, in year 2 of this build, you took a break or a few months, went and worked with Auburn on completing the White Oak theater, and came back.....it must have been depressing to return to my drywall-only room after that. lol. There are so many instances where you could have just quit the project...especially once the reality of married life sunk in for me and I had trouble finding time to complete assignments you left for me to do, but didn't quit, and I thank for that as well. Your specialized knowledge of theater building is highly valued, and you will get the front row-center money seat on opening night. Not that you need it (you have your own theater, after all), but as a gesture of respect and gratitude. BTW--your calf and forearm muscles are ridiculously defined...teach us your ways!


For the demolition of the original space, @damelon thanks for joining BIG and my buddy Justin in tearing down the walls and ceilings. I really appreciate it...especially since, at the time, you had a bad neck cramp. Also, thank you for honoring my NO SPOILERS request when the rest of you were talking about House of Cards!


@RedStripe88 dude--without your help, the framing of my baffle walls would have looked like a mangled wasteland of pine and iron. You taught Doug and I the Ancient Wudan Martial Art of Fabric-Fu (bows as gong sounds), and my appreciation of your help with the wrapping of the fabric panels cannot be overstated.

@DougUSMC, my man, you're a genius, a warrior, and a friend. I appreciate you helping out with the fabric panels as well, and you came up with a solution for a panel fit issue on the left side of the theater that maintained depth consistency of one of the top panels toward the rear of the room. You designed, and we tested multiple solutions until we found one that worked perfectly. I also appreciate the tutorial on balancing -sub construction at the house--that was an eye opener.

I can't even begin to thank the many folks who have given me advice over the duration of this build, but I really do need to give special thanks to @TMcG who has been a consistent stream of advice and support over the last few years. Really appreciate your guidance, buddy--without it, I would not be enjoying the theater as much as I am!


Definitely need to give HATS OFF to @Nyal Mellor the acoustic designer for this room. His design for the room can be found on the first page of this thread, from Layout and Baffle Wall design through to the Acoustic Design. great guy to work with, and extremely knowledgeable.


If I forgot anybody, I'm sorry---it's been a lonnng build. lol.

To my dealers and liaisons to dealers! Guys, thank you ALL for understanding that I'm not a wealthy guy, and for working with me on solutions that, frankly, I could not otherwise afford. Going to repost my equipment list below, along with the dealers where appropriate. Where a dealer is not listed, I either purchased directly, or the dealer has gone out of business.


DISPLAY




JVC DLA-RS520 4K Projector with seven (7) 3D glasses ( @GetGray for my RS500 and @adidino for my RS520). Couple of things I want to point out:
  • @GetGray sold me my 7 3D glasses and projector mount, and was on the phone with me at 9pm as I walked through Home Depot looking for the right hardware to install the projector mount. He dug up the hole spacing requirements for my particular mount, and guided me on on what length I'd need, as well as the diameter of the bolts. Also, he is a genius...builds robots in his spare time.
  • @adidino really, really saved me from buying a more expensive A/V processor. I priginally ordered a Marantz AV8804 because I wanted to use tops and heights. he did the research, and let me know that although the outputs were there, I couldn't use four height outputs AND wides at the same time. He let me cancel the order, and nab the Anthem AVM60 instead. Couldn't be happier, as the Anthem sounds better than my previous Marantz AV880X processors.
SCREEN
Seymour AV Centerstage XD Curved Screen: 144" wide, 16:9 aspect ratio ( @chriscmore )

SPEAKERS
Left, Center, Right: Triad CinemaPlus Platinum LCR (3)
Wides: Triad Gold InWall LCR (2)
Side Surrounds (Front Row): Triad Gold InWall LCR (2)
Side Surrounds (Rear Row): Triad Gold InWall LCR (2)
Rear Surrounds: Triad Gold InWall LCR (2)
Atmos: RSL C34E Edgeless (6)
Subwoofers: Seaton Sound F18 Subwoofers (8) ( @Mark Seaton )
Bass Shakers: Crowson Tactile Transducers (7)

AMPLIFICATION BY CHANNEL
Left, Center, Right: QSC DCA 1622 (3)--1600wpc each in monoblock configuration (All QSC Amps - Group Buy organized by @TMcG )
Wides: QSC DCA 1644
Side Surrounds (Front Row): QSC DCA 1644
Side Surrounds (Rear Row): QSC DCA 1644
Rear Surrounds: QSC DCA 1644
Atmos: QSC DCA 1644+1222
Subwoofers: Seaton Sound 8000w RackAmp ( @Mark Seaton )
Bass Shakers: Behringer iNuke 3000DSP

PROCESSORS
Video: Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 w/ 18Ghz in/out cards (8 input, 4 output) ( @jrp )
Audio: Anthem AVM60 Home Cinema Processor ( @adidino )
Digital Signal: QSC Q-Sys Core 250i and QSC Q=Sys I/O Extender ( Group Buy organized by @TMcG )

SOURCES
4K Disc Playback: Oppo UDP-203
4K Media Streamer: Roku Ultra
Media Server: HTPC running JRiver Media Center
High Resolution Audio: Oppo Sonica DAC
Gaming: Microsoft Xbox One S
Gaming: Sony PlayStation 4


SEATING
Rear Row: Fusion Seating: Tributes (3) with motorized reclining and aluminum cup holders ( @rsh )
Front Row: Fusion Seating: Tributes (4) with motorized reclining and aluminum cup holders ( @rsh)

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post #6154 of 7035 Old 04-06-2018, 02:49 AM
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Beast,

Really enjoying reading through your build thread. Have only made it through pg 120ish so far, but I have started reading through your new posts too. I will never get the green light to dabble in the high end audio, but hopefully diy will get us to the ballpark.

Q1. On your breakdown sheet you listed labor. Do those numbers include materials? So sheetrock + install labor?

Q2. It looks like you had overhead in building samples and prototypes. Was that a trivial cost as part of the hobby, or something that should be broken out?

Q3. Early on and in one of the first videos, you attached sheetrock between wall studs to the back of an existing layer of sheetrock under your stairs. Would you do this again?

Q4. Did your treatment wall depth end up getting used?
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post #6155 of 7035 Old 04-06-2018, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rfbrang View Post
Beast,

Really enjoying reading through your build thread. Have only made it through pg 120ish so far, but I have started reading through your new posts too. I will never get the green light to dabble in the high end audio, but hopefully diy will get us to the ballpark.

Q1. On your breakdown sheet you listed labor. Do those numbers include materials? So sheetrock + install labor?

Q2. It looks like you had overhead in building samples and prototypes. Was that a trivial cost as part of the hobby, or something that should be broken out?

Q3. Early on and in one of the first videos, you attached sheetrock between wall studs to the back of an existing layer of sheetrock under your stairs. Would you do this again?

Q4. Did your treatment wall depth end up getting used?
Glad you're enjoying the thread!


A1: As I think about it, I think I forgot to include drywall costs on that breakdown. I need to recheck my quotes when I get a chance...I remember the quotes I got for 180 sheets were all super high, except for one company...a specialized commercial company recommended to by my the owner of the Rawlinsway theater here in MD, so I used them. There was a $3/sheet carry fee to get the drywall into my basement, but there was no way I was going to carry 180 sheets from the front yard to the back yard, and down a flight of stairs into the basement. So I had to pony up the cash, and that ended up being pretty expensive. I'll look that up and see if I incorporated it into the overall price. I might have incorporated only the drywall, but definitely not the carry fee.


A2: Most samples and prototypes were built using spare materials from already-cut lumber. I don't think I spent a single additional cent on any prototypes.


A3: I would absolutely put sheetrock between studs against the stairs...I'm really glad I did that for a couple reasons: 1) the sump pump is directly on the other side of that wall, under the stairs, and 2) stairs are a major vibration source. I'm so glad BIG recommended it, and I'm confident that it's helping.


A4: Yes indeed, while not all treatments are in yet, some are. I've also leveraged the space for wire runs, strip light power supplies & controllers, and hidden outlets that I would not have been able to do without the depth. I would recommend anyone building a theater to incorporate as much wall space as possible behind fabric panels--the freedom it offers is luxurious!
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post #6156 of 7035 Old 04-06-2018, 06:59 AM
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@BrolicBeast - Thanks for the kind words. I was more than happy to help in any way I could to help you reach your dream. But beyond the awesome room result I'm most happy for our friendship. That said, I can't wait to pay you a visit and see the unleashed Beast in person!
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post #6157 of 7035 Old 04-06-2018, 04:17 PM
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Good stuff all around Matt. So the Anthem let's you use all of it's speaker outputs at once and that plus your QSC solution is how you got to 17 speakers? If you kept the Marantz and still added the QSC solution, how many speakers could you have had. Right now I think you are at 11.1.6 (I know it's more than one sub). So if you kept the Marantz would what would that knock it down to.

It's clear that this was a labor of love even though it was a lot a work. I am happy that it meets and probably exceeded your expectations. I hope to experience it one day. It was a fun trip for all of us who followed along.

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post #6158 of 7035 Old 04-07-2018, 04:51 AM
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You are more than welcome brother. Much like raising a child, building a dedicated HT takes a village! (And costs almost as much)

As far as the knowledge transfer goes: I'll go on record to say that it's been far more flowing from your end down to mine than vice vs! I appreciate all of the mentoring that you've provided me in my own journey!
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post #6159 of 7035 Old 04-07-2018, 04:53 AM
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Thanks for the great review. Now that you are doing a retrospective does that mean the Grand Opeining is around the corner?
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post #6160 of 7035 Old 04-07-2018, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/

Scroll down to Dolby (immediately followed by DTS) and look for the Atmos and DTS: X designations respectively in the “Sound” column.


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So how exactly does one play these demo segments. Download to a USB thumb drive and place that in an Oppo?
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post #6161 of 7035 Old 04-07-2018, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
So how exactly does one play these demo segments. Download to a USB thumb drive and place that in an Oppo?
Do you still have JRiver? If not, then yup...download and put on flash drive and play through Oppo! I'd say Infuse, but Apple TV doesn't have immersive audio yet. But for the 7.1 demos, yup...save to NAS and play through Infuse! I do! :-)

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post #6162 of 7035 Old 04-07-2018, 07:39 PM
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Did you ever compare JRiver to PowerDVD for BD and other disc playback on your HTPC?

As another asked over: What reduction in no. of simultaneous processing channels would you seen going to Marantz instead of Anthem?
And how many channels are the Anthem processing of your totals? And the QSC?

I am in the midst of changing up my HTPC myself and also looking for a new processor.

How would you describe your Anthems sound signature vs. Marantz of those models you had?

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post #6163 of 7035 Old 04-07-2018, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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There are quite a few posts above that I plan to respond to tomorrow, but posting this before I go to bed.....

EPISODE 15 IS LIVEEEEEE!!!!!!

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post #6164 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 06:58 AM
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Very cool Matt.....so glad to see you got it altogether! Hopefully you have a GTG as I would to see this masterpiece in full action!!!!
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post #6165 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Do you still have JRiver? If not, then yup...download and put on flash drive and play through Oppo! I'd say Infuse, but Apple TV doesn't have immersive audio yet. But for the 7.1 demos, yup...save to NAS and play through Infuse! I do! :-)

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I no longer have JRiver as it went when I sold my music server. But I will give some of these clips a go. Thanks.
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post #6166 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
@BrolicBeast - Thanks for the kind words. I was more than happy to help in any way I could to help you reach your dream. But beyond the awesome room result I'm most happy for our friendship. That said, I can't wait to pay you a visit and see the unleashed Beast in person!
Same here brother...you're welcome here anytime!

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Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post
Good stuff all around Matt. So the Anthem let's you use all of it's speaker outputs at once and that plus your QSC solution is how you got to 17 speakers? If you kept the Marantz and still added the QSC solution, how many speakers could you have had. Right now I think you are at 11.1.6 (I know it's more than one sub). So if you kept the Marantz would what would that knock it down to.

It's clear that this was a labor of love even though it was a lot a work. I am happy that it meets and probably exceeded your expectations. I hope to experience it one day. It was a fun trip for all of us who followed along.
Thanks Mike! Yiu hit the nail on the head...11.1.6.....if I kept the Marantz, I would have had the same amount of outputs since the Marantz has more channel outputs, but an identical number of outputs that can be used simultaneously. They made you choose between a pair of Atmos channels OR wides...odd stuff.



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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
You are more than welcome brother. Much like raising a child, building a dedicated HT takes a village! (And costs almost as much)

As far as the knowledge transfer goes: I'll go on record to say that it's been far more flowing from your end down to mine than vice vs! I appreciate all of the mentoring that you've provided me in my own journey!
You are 100% brother....it costs nearly as much as a village, and definitely takes a village to build a theater lolol.



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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Thanks for the great review. Now that you are doing a retrospective does that mean the Grand Opeining is around the corner?
Ahhh, well the opening night timeline is complex.....I plan in having an unofficial non-enthusiast soft opening night sooner than later....but I'm not having an enthusiast (us) opening night until the last treatments go in, and I get a full calibration. The enthusiast opening will likely be an all day event. Have some cool things planned, including 5.1, 7.1, Atmos comparisons (on the fly, thanks to Qsys) and some HDR fun as well. Also....sub games (i.e. guess how many subs are running..will play multiple combinations from 1 to 8 subs)....lots of fun stuff planned that normal non-enthusiasts won't care about (which is also why the enthusiast opening night will be different from the "hey neighbor " opening night). You're welcome to come to both!

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So how exactly does one play these demo segments. Download to a USB thumb drive and place that in an Oppo?
Hey buddy, check out the latest video I posted abive... it shows how I playback the demo files)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LydMekk View Post
Did you ever compare JRiver to PowerDVD for BD and other disc playback on your HTPC?

As another asked over: What reduction in no. of simultaneous processing channels would you seen going to Marantz instead of Anthem?
And how many channels are the Anthem processing of your totals? And the QSC?

I am in the midst of changing up my HTPC myself and also looking for a new processor.

How would you describe your Anthems sound signature vs. Marantz of those models you had?
Hey. The usable channel count is identical, but because the marantz forced you to pick between one or the other, I would have been paying an additional 6 or 700 bucks for an additional channel output that I couldn't use. The anthem sounds better than my previous marantz, hands down. Much better musically and theatrically as well. Go for the Anthem!

Currently, the Anthem is processing 7.1.4 and the QSC Qsys system is expanding that to 11.1.6 (one subwoofer channel, eight subs, multiple EQs for front wall and real wall).


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Very cool Matt.....so glad to see you got it altogether! Hopefully you have a GTG as I would to see this masterpiece in full action!!!!
Thanks a bunch. Man! Yup...soon, I'm hoping. Sooooon!

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post #6167 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 12:43 PM
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So I know this is your thread, but lets say I wanted a 7.1.4 setup. The Marantz would be fine. But if I had a big enough room and I wanted a 9.1.4 setup would the Marantz still work?
I don't know why I am even asking this because it won't be for a very long time anyway. 5.1 is it for me.
Thanks
again, your room is one to behold. You should be very proud.

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post #6168 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 03:39 PM
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Mike. this is the year of the 13 channel Atmos capable receivers. Probably all the major players will have a Sub $4k one by the end of the year. Next year maybe more channels?

https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...vers/avrx8500h
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post #6169 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
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Mike. this is the year of the 13 channel Atmos capable receivers. Probably all the major players will have a Sub $4k one by the end of the year. Next year maybe more channels?

https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...vers/avrx8500h
I know 7.1.4 is possible for sure but having s 9.1.4 setup would cool also. I like the sound of that. If I had the space I would love to do 9.1.4 (that's the 13 channels right?). But I would to wait until I can move into a bigger room and I would want a preamp only, not a receiver. But that is a nice thing to see. I think 13 channels would be enough for me. But that would require a pretty big room. At least I know that it may be possible and that at minimum I can 7.1.4.
Thanks Big.

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post #6170 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 05:31 PM
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I would want a preamp only, not a receiver.
from my experience it is often cheaper to get a receiver and use it as a preamp. The market demand for preamps, results in a relatively small niche market for preamps and therefore inflated pricing relative to the same tech in a receiver. You would think it is cheaper to make a preamp only, it is just not how they get priced in the market.
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post #6171 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 06:12 PM
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Yeah, I would like to use my 9.4.4 setup all the time and not have to choose between rear speakers or wides.
I dunno what Marantz/Denon were thinking when they built that hurdle into the new boxes...

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post #6172 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 07:21 PM
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I will know soon but based upon some of what I have read on the Trinnov thread, 7.1.6 may be a better use of your channels and money than 9.1.4 - at least for now since wides are used so little.
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post #6173 of 7035 Old 04-08-2018, 10:58 PM
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I have been watching a lot of UHD and BD disc reviews lately and the activity overhead is very limited on many of them.
A few have solid use but not many. I am talking about ATMOS directly (discreet), not any upscaler like Dolby Surround or similar.
I would be happy with active wides matrixed too.

But, I am not going to pollute Beasts thread with that discussion

@BrolicBeast : the seats really made the dot over the i. Nice!

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Home Theatre Heaven in Spain - V2.0 - Build thread
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post #6174 of 7035 Old 04-09-2018, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
from my experience it is often cheaper to get a receiver and use it as a preamp. The market demand for preamps, results in a relatively small niche market for preamps and therefore inflated pricing relative to the same tech in a receiver. You would think it is cheaper to make a preamp only, it is just not how they get priced in the market.
Most receivers only provide RCA connectors to the external amps and that can be an issue. Other than that I agree with you.
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post #6175 of 7035 Old 04-09-2018, 03:51 PM
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I have balanced connections for my system. So I would have to get XLR to RCA converters, at least for the main channels because I am not giving up my amps.
Like the video Matt. I can't wait for MC24 to come out. I tried to customize it but it's nothing like yours. Good stuff all around.
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post #6176 of 7035 Old 04-11-2018, 01:44 PM
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@RedStripe88 dude--without your help, the framing of my baffle walls would have looked like a mangled wasteland of pine and iron. You taught Doug and I the Ancient Wudan Martial Art of Fabric-Fu (bows as gong sounds), and my appreciation of your help with the wrapping of the fabric panels cannot be overstated.
@BrolicBeast , thanks for involving me in your journey. I can claim that I had a small part in an incredible build. It is unrecognizable from that dusty basement where we built the baffle wall.

I enjoyed working with you and @DougUSMC on the fabric frames... many hands made quick work.

BTW, did you ever figure out who sent that shop vac?
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My in progress build thread: The Salt Mine
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post #6177 of 7035 Old 04-11-2018, 02:09 PM
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Amazing build! Congratulations!
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Room| Treated | Sound| Front: Ino Audio i32s, Center: Ino Audio i16s, Surrounds: 6 x Ino a2, 6 x Ino a1, Subs: 6 x Ino Infra-Y|
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post #6178 of 7035 Old 04-11-2018, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RedStripe88 View Post
@BrolicBeast , thanks for involving me in your journey. I can claim that I had a small part in an incredible build. It is unrecognizable from that dusty basement where we built the baffle wall.



I enjoyed working with you and @DougUSMC on the fabric frames... many hands made quick work.



BTW, did you ever figure out who sent that shop vac?

I know man.....big difference between May 2015 when we did the baffle wall framing, and now. And I’m soooo glad for that! The baffle wall was the last big thing in the theater until the end of 2015...I would walk into the theater, look at the baffle wall frames in awe, because they meant visible progress...a step toward more than a dry walled room.

I never ever figured out the shop vac donor. My wife swears up and down it wasn’t her. But in addition to the countless times I’ve used it around the basement (even used it to get the shards of a broken dinner glass out of the sink piping), the shop vac came in super handy a couple of months ago...we got record rainfall (literally equaled the previous rainfall record) here in southern MD, and my sump pump was overtaxed. Water started flowing onto the basement floor (currently a gym right outside the theater)....i grabbed the shop vac, sucked water out of the sump pit, emptied into two Home Depot buckets, hauled up the basement steps and around to the front of the house and emptied. It on the street. I did this at least ten or eleven times, but it was enough to stave off a major flood. Of course, I had to deal with the hardships that accompany such a task (filter floating, etc.) but it saved me from having a major problem on my hands, while at least four or five of my immediate neighbors had flood recovery specialist vans in front of their houses over the next few days.

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Amazing build! Congratulations!

Thank you very much! :-). :-)




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post #6179 of 7035 Old 04-11-2018, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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All: Behold, the full Beast Unleashed build series. 15 Episodes, all in a single playlist, from the first task (drywall between studs against a staircase) to the most recent task (installation of seats). There’s more to come for sure, but there’s a lot of content here—especially for those contemplating a theater build:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...TmRJTz7WuC9hV_


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post #6180 of 7035 Old 04-12-2018, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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The Beast, Unleashed

Thought I’d post a photo journey through my complete HT journey which started in 2006:

It began (as it so often does) with a flat panel system.


Then, got some better speakers.





Then, went the projection route.



Started to get all fancy.


Painted the room black, and upgraded from 92” 16:9 to 120” 2:35.


Dove into high end audiophile speakers.


And finally, sold house, built new house, and new dedicated theater is complete.



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Last edited by BrolicBeast; 04-12-2018 at 07:12 AM.
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