The Beast, Unleashed - Page 233 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6961 of 7036 Old 09-19-2019, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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The FULL floor-to-ceiling 16:9 screen is back in action. I’ve actually been really enjoying the 2:35 screen for the last couple of months. I had forgotten what the full screen was like, so for kicks, I took off the magnetic masking panels last night, which took a whole 45 seconds—love the versatility ( thanks @chriscmore ) and it took a few seconds for my eyes to readjust to the different aspect ratio at such a large scale. Then I played through one of my favorite demo clips - the emergence of the tarodactly/griffin creature from the volcano in Godzilla, King of the Monsters. WHOA.....Like i told my man @DougUSMC last night: watching the 2:35 screen was like watching a movie, but the floor-to-ceiling 16:9 screen was like the movie was actually happening right in front of me. I mean, GOSH.....that entire scene from emergence to the fighter jet assault to the final “boom” that ends the scene....I felt like I was watching it for the first time again.

What I’ll probably do is use masking when I’m expecting guests (to help with sight lines), and keep the masking for family use!

Wife said “I feel like we just got a new screen. WOW!”

I feel the same way.


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post #6962 of 7036 Old 09-19-2019, 06:02 AM
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Confused.

Is Godzilla formatted at 16:9? If not, when you watch without your masks (16:9), you will still have horizontal black bars.

What am I missing?
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post #6963 of 7036 Old 09-19-2019, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Confused.



Is Godzilla formatted at 16:9? If not, when you watch without your masks (16:9), you will still have horizontal black bars.



What am I missing?
Ah--the Joy of Lumagen filling the screen!!! I've been using it since the theater went "live" in 2017. No matter what the AR, I use the Lumagen to fill the screen...usually involves minor cropping of the sides.

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post #6964 of 7036 Old 09-26-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
...usually involves minor cropping of the sides.
Call me a purist, but losing roughly 25% of the picture information on either side would be a non-starter for me, despite the convenience factor of filling the screen regardless of original source format. Defeats the whole purpose of the cinemascope format in my book. To each his own, though...
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post #6965 of 7036 Old 09-26-2019, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Call me a purist, but losing roughly 25% of the picture information on either side would be a non-starter for me, despite the convenience factor of filling the screen regardless of original source format. Defeats the whole purpose of the cinemascope format in my book. To each his own, though...
I totally get your POV. When all is said and done, we have to go with what gives us the best experience. The filled 16:9 screen gives me, personally, a better experience overall! All mileage may vary.

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post #6966 of 7036 Old 10-30-2019, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The theater has been fully functional for the last two years; however, there has always been something that I’ve wanted to “fix” about it: the rear row seating height.  Heretofore, I needed to lower the front row of seats in order to get a clear line of sight to the bottom of the massive 16:9 screen.  The wife and I always use the front row, but when it’s just me in the theater, my front-row/rear-row selection has been split about 50/50 depending on what the viewing will be (YouTube? Rear.....4K Movie? Front....etc.). But I’ve always wanted better sight lines from the rear row.  None of this was a surprise—my home cinema engineering drawing calls for a booster riser, although it’s much smaller than the one we built (yes, “we”...more on this later!)


First thing first—figuring out how high the riser needed to be.  Well, after trial and error using hard foam gym noise silencer pads (so tough, they don’t compress under body weight, only the weight of massive barbells being dropped on them)...I managed to find out the required booster riser height: 7.5”.


Pick your jaws off the floor—that number scared me too, until I realized something—when I went to see Avengers Endgame (one of two commercial cinema experiences I’ve had in the last six years), the cinema had recliners that seemed to “float” around 6-7” in the air.   I took a mental note amidst the excitement of watching Endgame and put it in a list in the back of my mind that a high booster riser was ok. 


So, one day I was chatting on the phone with my buddy @DougUSMC while my wife and I were upgrading our phones at Best Buy, and I was sharing my plans and concerns, and he very graciously offered to help.


FFWD a couple of months, and Doug did more than help.....he guided the entire build process and solved some pretty interesting challenges.  For instance—we had to do do SIN calculations ........uh, I haven’t had to calculate SIN, COS, or TAN in the better part of the last two decades. The requirement hit me like a ton of bricks, and while I was scrambling to try to remember the SIN formula, Doug whipped out a browser-based scientific calculator after doing some drawing, and then we got to work.  Here is the result! first pic is the final result. Also you'll see before/after POV shots as well.



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post #6967 of 7036 Old 10-30-2019, 11:03 AM
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Looks great Matt.

At work... machinist... I use an app called Machinist Calculator. I think it was $5. Worth every penny.

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post #6968 of 7036 Old 10-30-2019, 11:29 AM
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Given how high you are, do you notice any negative effects from the ATMOS height channels? The pics look like the seats are really close to the ceiling.
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post #6969 of 7036 Old 10-30-2019, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post
Looks great Matt.

At work... machinist... I use an app called Machinist Calculator. I think it was $5. Worth every penny.
Thanks Mike!
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Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
Given how high you are, do you notice any negative effects from the ATMOS height channels? The pics look like the seats are really close to the ceiling.
Nope, adjusted the DBs using the UMIK-1

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post #6970 of 7036 Old 10-31-2019, 05:36 AM
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This was a fun job. Building the additional riser was simple, the hard parts were:
- Deciding how to design it: larger than the footprint of the chairs would make the platform visible and be the easier solution (CON: It wouldn't looks as sharp and could potentially be intrusive when walking/sittting), smaller would make them seem to float and provide the opportunity for cooler LED lighting later on (CON: required more exacting measurements - chair outlines vs. support leg locations, framing location, etc)
- Calculating the dimensions & angles: each of the 2 center chairs has an angle on the armrest, and we didn't have a protractor. Realizing what the math needed to be was easier than finding an online calculator that worked (gotta' remember that radian/degrees button!!). I think it took us 2 mins to remember the formula, and 20 to find a Youtube video that gave that "Ah Ha!" moment.

After that it was a matter of cutting and screwing together, and I agree with Matt that the before and after is AMAZING!!

Matt - You have to post that "after pic", showing the line of sight (LoS) is now! That first pic is great, for showing how the seating seems to float now, but you need one more! The pic with the Plex menu shows the obstructed "before" LoS, but where's the one showing it "after"? Do I have it on my phone? Let me know if you need me to send it to you.
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post #6971 of 7036 Old 10-31-2019, 07:17 AM
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Looks good Matt and Doug. That's looks really high in the pictures. Do you feel like Edith Ann when sitting in the back row now?

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post #6972 of 7036 Old 11-01-2019, 04:17 AM
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Looks great buddy! Hopefully the wife and I can make it over someday and she can see the finished product!


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post #6973 of 7036 Old 11-01-2019, 09:24 AM
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Actual footage of @DougUSMC calculating riser dimension angles...


What's the current over/under (in months) before you'll want to retrofit some 10" or 12" drivers into that new platform and make it a BOSS platform?
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post #6974 of 7036 Old 11-01-2019, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
This was a fun job. Building the additional riser was simple, the hard parts were:

- Deciding how to design it: larger than the footprint of the chairs would make the platform visible and be the easier solution (CON: It wouldn't looks as sharp and could potentially be intrusive when walking/sittting), smaller would make them seem to float and provide the opportunity for cooler LED lighting later on (CON: required more exacting measurements - chair outlines vs. support leg locations, framing location, etc)

- Calculating the dimensions & angles: each of the 2 center chairs has an angle on the armrest, and we didn't have a protractor. Realizing what the math needed to be was easier than finding an online calculator that worked (gotta' remember that radian/degrees button!!). I think it took us 2 mins to remember the formula, and 20 to find a Youtube video that gave that "Ah Ha!" moment.



After that it was a matter of cutting and screwing together, and I agree with Matt that the before and after is AMAZING!!



Matt - You have to post that "after pic", showing the line of sight (LoS) is now! That first pic is great, for showing how the seating seems to float now, but you need one more! The pic with the Plex menu shows the obstructed "before" LoS, but where's the one showing it "after"? Do I have it on my phone? Let me know if you need me to send it to you.

Doug! The man with the plan! The photo directly underneath the Plex photos shows the adjusted sight line, but only in one place: to the left of the screen’s center where a chair seems to be missing in the lineup.). I’m going to take another one with the Plex interface up though, so it’s apples to apples!

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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Actual footage of @DougUSMC calculating riser dimension angles...





What's the current over/under (in months) before you'll want to retrofit some 10" or 12" drivers into that new platform and make it a BOSS platform?

Hahahahaha that is actual footage. I forgot to post the calculations-on-wood pic....going to add those to the original post!

BOSS is absolutely a possibility in the future!

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Looks good Matt and Doug. That's looks really high in the pictures. Do you feel like Edith Ann when sitting in the back row now?

I had to look Edith Ann up! Lol....that’s a big chair she’s got!

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Originally Posted by mercracing View Post
Looks great buddy! Hopefully the wife and I can make it over someday and she can see the finished product!

Absolutely man—you and the Mrs. are welcome anytime. If you guys plan a trip to DC, let me know so we can all plan some cool stuff!

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post #6975 of 7036 Old 11-01-2019, 06:12 PM
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Thanks! We’ve talked about it. Seeing you guys is top of the list when we come back. I also want to take her to the zoo. I saw that when I made the first trip to see the theater it’s a very nice zoo! I was impressed. We also want to see more of the museums and stuff.


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post #6976 of 7036 Old 11-04-2019, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! We’ve talked about it. Seeing you guys is top of the list when we come back. I also want to take her to the zoo. I saw that when I made the first trip to see the theater it’s a very nice zoo! I was impressed. We also want to see more of the museums and stuff.


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Awesome! Oh yeah for sure—the Smithsonian cluster of museums is just amazing and the zoo is GREAT! Second only to the Bronx Zoo (or the memory of it from my youth) up in NY.



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post #6977 of 7036 Old 11-04-2019, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
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The Beast, Unleashed

@DougUSMC here’s a better A/B comparison! Did this last night right before bed, so didn’t fire up the PJ, but check the difference in sight lines!





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post #6978 of 7036 Old 11-04-2019, 04:26 AM
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@DougUSMC here’s a better A/B comparison! Did this last night right before bed, so didn’t fire up the PJ, but check the difference in sight lines!
Yeah man, that's definitely it!! I'm sure there were a few wondering if it was worth it, or what the end result even WAS. That pic puts it all into perspective, great shots!
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post #6979 of 7036 Old 11-04-2019, 02:58 PM
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Ok, I tried to respect the sanctity of the board, but I CAN'T RESIST ANY MORE!!

My three favorite pics of the day, "in no particular order..."

ACTUAL shot of Doug trying to do the math (Yes, that is a piece that is now part of the finished riser that I'm writing on - forever part of the build of the room).


ACTUAL shot of Matt Slacking off while I'm working (Or maybe he's just taking the riser for a test ride, checking our finished height)


ACTUAL shot of Matt Unable to wipe the S-eating grin off his face b/c the last pic showed that the height was money!!
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post #6980 of 7036 Old 11-04-2019, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Ok, I tried to respect the sanctity of the board, but I CAN'T RESIST ANY MORE!!



My three favorite pics of the day, "in no particular order..."



ACTUAL shot of Doug trying to do the math (Yes, that is a piece that is now part of the finished riser that I'm writing on - forever part of the build of the room).





ACTUAL shot of Matt Slacking off while I'm working (Or maybe he's just taking the riser for a test ride, checking our finished height)





ACTUAL shot of Matt Unable to wipe the S-eating grin off his face b/c the last pic showed that the height was money!!

Hahaha love it! I'm getting old and my Shaolin Pic-Fu is not what it was in my youth. Thanks for posting these pics!!! Man, when my children ask "why do I have to learn Trigonometry? What real world use could I possibly have for this?" My answer will be: "once upon a time, Uncle Doug and I were building a booster riser..." lolol

That grin is genuine GLEE!!!!! Also, my eldest daughter realized the seats were higher and she asked "ohhhh, the big chairs. Why you do the big chairs daddy?" I explained sight lines to her, who which she responded "ok, can I watch my show?" We watched Word Party on Netflix from the rear row!

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post #6981 of 7036 Old 11-04-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Ok, I tried to respect the sanctity of the board, but I CAN'T RESIST ANY MORE!!

My three favorite pics of the day, "in no particular order..."

ACTUAL shot of Doug trying to do the math (Yes, that is a piece that is now part of the finished riser that I'm writing on - forever part of the build of the room).

ACTUAL shot of Matt Slacking off while I'm working (Or maybe he's just taking the riser for a test ride, checking our finished height)

ACTUAL shot of Matt Unable to wipe the S-eating grin off his face b/c the last pic showed that the height was money!!
Awesome update and pics Matt. Great to see you enjoying your new sight lines from a relaxed position on your second row....Congrats! Bet it feels like a new theater back there on the "throne".

All the geeks on AVS will instantly recognize the math that's a permanent part of your theater now....kudos to Doug for his mastery of the SOH-CAH-TOA geometry skills.

Can't wait until you retrofit BOSS technology back there.....your S-eating grin will only get wider! Everyone will be fighting to sit in the back row afterwards....the throne will become even more popular
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post #6982 of 7036 Old 11-05-2019, 04:10 AM
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Awesome update and pics Matt. Great to see you enjoying your new sight lines from a relaxed position on your second row....Congrats! Bet it feels like a new theater back there on the "throne".

All the geeks on AVS will instantly recognize the math that's a permanent part of your theater now....kudos to Doug for his mastery of the SOH-CAH-TOA geometry skills.

Can't wait until you retrofit BOSS technology back there.....your S-eating grin will only get wider! Everyone will be fighting to sit in the back row afterwards....the throne will become even more popular
It WAS funny to remember that, from "pre-the wall came down" days.

I can NOT exaggerate enough: SOACAHTOA was the easy part, it was that [email protected] "radians/degrees" that cost us 20 mins! IDK how both Matt and I came up w/SOACAHTOA in about 10 second as the solution to the problem, but NEITHER of us could remember that. I'm 99% sure that today's scientific calculator didn't exist in the 80s when I was learning, but I can't remember how we did it? Were there tables back in the day?? A different process that I'm not remembering?
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post #6983 of 7036 Old 11-05-2019, 08:42 AM
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It WAS funny to remember that, from "pre-the wall came down" days.

I can NOT exaggerate enough: SOACAHTOA was the easy part, it was that [email protected] "radians/degrees" that cost us 20 mins! IDK how both Matt and I came up w/SOACAHTOA in about 10 second as the solution to the problem, but NEITHER of us could remember that. I'm 99% sure that today's scientific calculator didn't exist in the 80s when I was learning, but I can't remember how we did it? Were there tables back in the day?? A different process that I'm not remembering?
Ah yes, radians and degrees....always use degrees for anything having to do with construction or geometry. Radians only come in handy if wanting to know displacement (like how many times around the circle have you traveled) and is handy for physics, calc, vibrations, etc.

Takes me back to the day....I was also learning in the 80's and trig tables were the norm (remember those) for homework and tests before scientific calculators were affordable. I remember getting my first scientific calculator in the mid 80's as a graduation gift before starting college....a couple hundred hundred dollars back then. It was an HP15c with RPN (reverse polish notation) and I still use it almost every day today. Once you learn RPN it's hard to use a normal calculator.

There's even a free app for iphones now with a HP15c emulator that I use when helping kids with homework at home. They laugh at me as I'm entering the algebra expressions into my phone in reverse. But, I get the answers much faster than they can using their newfangled TI calculators because they have to enter all the parenthesis to get the order of operations correct. They just roll their eyes whenever I whip out the 15c emulator and challenge them to a dual

Those calculators of yesteryear were so well designed too....the last time I replaced the batteries in my 15c was about 10 years ago. It uses small watch batteries no less and frankly that's the only time I remember replacing them. Not bad considering I've had it for nearly 35 years. While, in the meantime, my daughters and son are constantly charging their calculators on a weekly basis
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post #6984 of 7036 Old 11-11-2019, 03:24 AM
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Hey,
Sorry if this has already been asked. But how do you like your ceiling speakers? Do they keep up with the Triads or are they in for an upgrade at some point? Where do you cross over the ceilings to the subs?

I have been looking a lot at triad in ceilings due to the angled drivers, but your in ceilings is a budget friendly alternative.

Thanks!

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post #6985 of 7036 Old 11-11-2019, 05:45 AM
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Hey,
Sorry if this has already been asked. But how do you like your ceiling speakers? Do they keep up with the Triads or are they in for an upgrade at some point? Where do you cross over the ceilings to the subs?

I have been looking a lot at triad in ceilings due to the angled drivers, but your in ceilings is a budget friendly alternative.

Thanks!
I'm not Matt, but I, too, have an all Triad system and also use the same ceiling RSL speakers (6 of them). I'm not exactly sure what "keep up" means but they work perfectly. They have an angled baffle and aim-able tweeters. They are a good bit less efficient than the Triads but I cross mine over a bit over 100Hz in case my volume finger gets too happy. And in the FWIW, category, I have been known to play my system near or even at reference. I'm not sure how they get that kind of quality and performance out of a $125 driver, but they do! Highly recommended.

While I am convinced that all of the ear level speakers should have the identical mid-range and tweeter drivers, I've yet to be convinced of that for the ceiling speakers. What ceiling speakers DO need is great polar response - and these have it in spades.

Sermon over!

PS: I purchased mine as a result of Matt finding these speakers.
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post #6986 of 7036 Old 12-10-2019, 06:51 AM
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Beast,

Really love your space and I enjoyed your videos too. Adding sheetrock between the stair wall studs was genius, thank you! Any chance you have more details on your joists, and out of the room experiences now that the room and house have had time to settle?


  • Do you know what height and type your I joists are? Types seem to be 230, 360, 560, etc.
  • Did you end up doing three layers between the joists too?
  • Did you do any joist web stiffening or cross bracing?
  • I know you did three layers on clips and channel on the ceiling, are you noticing any floor deflection in the living room overhead?
    • If not, do you think running on a treadmill in the living room would make the floor bounce?
  • You used three clouds instead of the whole ceiling being fabric, was this purely aesthetic, or was there a weight concern?
Thank you,
Robb

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post #6987 of 7036 Old 12-11-2019, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rfbrang View Post
Beast,

Really love your space and I enjoyed your videos too. Adding sheetrock between the stair wall studs was genius, thank you! Any chance you have more details on your joists, and out of the room experiences now that the room and house have had time to settle?


  • Do you know what height and type your I joists are? Types seem to be 230, 360, 560, etc.
  • Did you end up doing three layers between the joists too?
  • Did you do any joist web stiffening or cross bracing?
  • I know you did three layers on clips and channel on the ceiling, are you noticing any floor deflection in the living room overhead?
    • If not, do you think running on a treadmill in the living room would make the floor bounce?
  • You used three clouds instead of the whole ceiling being fabric, was this purely aesthetic, or was there a weight concern?
Thank you,
Robb


Greetings, Robb! Def glad you liked the videos and the build. Will answer you questions in order below:

1) Unfortunately, I don’t remember anything about my i-joists. I know I have some pictures of the joists—I’ll try to find them.

2) Naw ended up doing one layer with green-glue. I was initially concerned about the weight, but after we did some calculations, we realized the net benefit of adding a second and third layers between the joists would be practically immeasurable, when coupled with the triple drywall on clips/channel.

3) I did not do any joist stiffening. There is tons of cross bracing perpendicular to the joists because that’s what the clips are actually attached to (doing this saved about 3/4” to an inch of ceiling height by negating the depth of the clips/channel construct itself. So the drywall hovers just under the joists thanks to the clip/channel attachment to cross bracing.

4) No floor deflection in the room above. I spent the first year after drywall worried about the effect of the weight on the joists, but those worries proved to be unfounded (thankfully).

5) running on a treadmill in the living room would probably make the floor bounce, but only because I think it would make ANY hardwood floor bounce to some extent. If you’re considering this, I’d recommend installing the treadmill perpendicular to the joists so it crosses multiple joists beneath it.

6) The clouds are an idea that sprung up once we realized that no speaker manufacturer at the time was producing Atmos-worthy speakers. I was originally going to build backer boxes for the ceiling and then have no clouds at all; however, without speaker dimensions I couldn’t not build backer boxes, and without exact backer box locations, I could not pre-wire for lighting. So, we did the ceiling fully sealed with the understanding that electrical for lighting and Atmos speakers would be executed within the room. I drafted up a design for the ceiling cloud containing the lighting and the Atmos speakers about a year after drywall was completed, sent to Jeff (BigmouthinDC)—he green-lit the plausibility, and we built them!


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post #6988 of 7036 Old 12-11-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Greetings, Robb! Def glad you liked the videos and the build. Will answer you questions in order below:
Don't want to requote too much... Understood about the deflection, I didn't think about the bracing you used. Appreciate it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
PS: I purchased mine as a result of Matt finding these speakers.

Going to go with DIYSG HTM series here, but I picked up the RSL's for atmos because of this thread too. Beast should get a referral bonus.
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post #6989 of 7036 Old 01-16-2020, 04:42 AM
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Talking sweet

Matt Congratulations on being AVSForum HOME THEATER OF THE MONTH
good job dude
sweet setup bro love
NYC baby
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post #6990 of 7036 Old 01-16-2020, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Matt Congratulations on being AVSForum HOME THEATER OF THE MONTH

good job dude

sweet setup bro love

NYC baby


Thanks muchooo! I’m definitely honored and super excited by this award! :-)

NYC FOR LIFE!!!


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