$10k screening room - need ideas - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-28-2014, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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So, I have been asked to help design a screening room at the school in which I work. 

So, I'm looking for some good options for all of the equipment needed - 

what I know I want:

 

1080p projector, not opposed to a 4k (high lumens and ratio, but needs to be short throw lens - since the mounting position is 21'9" from the screen)

 

7.1 surround system (I was looking at the Yamaha systems like theRX - a1030, but might opt for a separates unit like one of their higher end systems)

 

Speakers - clearly I need at least 7 and a sub - I want wall mount (so they don't walk away) but am open to options since I know little about speakers these days.

 

Control unit - because of the nature of this I want a wall mounted touch screen interface - thoughts on a good way to do that? 

 

The room is appx. 33'x3', with 18' ceiling, it will have a four level seating area, seating about 45-60 people (depending on riser construction) - the room will ultimately be used to screen film students projects, and other school projects (also gaming and movie watching for my staff).  I'm aiming for a $10,000 budget - but could go a touch higher if appropriate.

 

Thanks, any thought would be great - or places to find what I'm looking for, amazon.com is only good for so much. 

 

Adam

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post #2 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acritchlow View Post

1080p projector, not opposed to a 4k (high lumens and ratio, but needs to be short throw lens - since the mounting position is 21'9" from the screen)
What are you projecting onto? a white wall or a screen? How big will the screen be?
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Originally Posted by acritchlow View Post

7.1 surround system (I was looking at the Yamaha systems like theRX - a1030, but might opt for a separates unit like one of their higher end systems)
The RX-A130 is just a receiver. You would still need to buy all the speakers, making it a "separates" package.
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Speakers - clearly I need at least 7 and a sub - I want wall mount (so they don't walk away) but am open to options since I know little about speakers these days.
A single sub is not going to come near filling that large of space with sound. Many people on this forum put anywhere form 2-4 $1,500 subs in their 22'x14'x8' room and still want more. While that may be excessive, your space is way to big for just one sub unless the sub is a NFL stadium quality sub in there (a guaranteed budget buster). Also, 7 speakers to fill that room won't be cheap either.
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Originally Posted by acritchlow View Post

Control unit - because of the nature of this I want a wall mounted touch screen interface - thoughts on a good way to do that? 
This seems like it would be a place to cut out if/when the budgets gets tight. Do you plan to have media stored on a network? Would this simply be for turning on/off equipment and adjusting volume? Seems an expensive novelty given the budget and the other things that needs to be bought still.
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Originally Posted by acritchlow View Post

The room is appx. 33'x3', with 18' ceiling, it will have a four level seating area, seating about 45-60 people (depending on riser construction) - the room will ultimately be used to screen film students projects, and other school projects (also gaming and movie watching for my staff).  I'm aiming for a $10,000 budget - but could go a touch higher if appropriate.
Assuming the 33'x3' is a typo for 33'x30something', that is a huge room. Is it already finished, just waiting for the equipment to be put in or is finishing/building risers still coming out of the budget? Are the chairs already purchased? If not 45-60 cheap folding chairs could easily be >$1,000.


Seems to me (I am nowhere near a pro, so I could be totally off) that a $10k budget for this size room is too low. Maybe I am thinking too much along the lines of Home Theater use where you want your chair shaking with the bass and ducking from surround sound effects, rather than a simple school viewing room.
Can it be done? Sure. The end result will just be determined by what you are able to spend and what you are willing to sacrifice in one area to make up for another.
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post #3 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 03:39 AM
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If you need to reduce the cost of the pj, you can get 1080 presentation projectors that have much higher lumens and can comfortably light up a much bigger screens. You will have to feed them from a PC (with DVD/BD player for your movies) or use an external scaler to get decent video processing if you're after good image quality. If you can test before you buy, you may find the quality acceptable without a scaler or PC but that's down to personal preference.

Seating distances - whatever size screen you go for, front row should be around 2.4 x the screen height. Ideally the back row should be no more than 3.68 x the screen height, but can be up to 4 x SH. This is for movie viewing more than presentations and takes into account the immersion requirement. Front row seating can be as close as 2 x SH but pixels may become visible at that range.

Because seating distance to screen height ratios give us the same image on our retina (12 feet from a 5 feet tall screen or 120 feet from a 50ft tall screen will look the same other than scale if you have other things visible in the field of view), you can experiment on a smaller scale to determine pixel visibility, though when using a smaller screen or wall area, you will have to take into account the extra image brightness which can make pixels more visible from closer seating distances. If you can experiment by projecting onto the wall where the screen is going, you can determine the actual size you want for the mount of seats and rows you're after, you can then get the ideal screen size before buying or making one.

Seating should not be more than 45 degrees horizontally from center so that people are not viewing the image from too far off to the sides.

Vertical viewing angles should ideally be no more than 15 degrees, but should not exceed 35 degrees. This is to prevent discomfort from looking up for long periods.

Will you be sticking with a 16:9 screen or will you want to try 2.35 as well? That adds zooming and lens shift into the equation and can make things more complicated.

Use PA speakers for audio and add gaskets to the drivers if they don't appear to be sat very well on the front baffle. Because they have waveguides you can ensure all the audio goes to where people are sat, and the speakers are usually more efficient, so more output and will fill the seating area better (compression drivers usually offer better quality than piezo, but if you can demo, that would be better). Avoid dome tweeters. You can do the same with PA bass speakers but don't expect the low end extension a good home sub would give you. If you use a perforated screen and have the speakers behind the screen, even better (though more expensive unless you can find an audio transparent material like a huge satin bedsheet for cheap, but you'll need to test to see if it's good enough - it all depends on budget). You may be better off with a solid screen or wall and speakers above the screen (at least the center) so that all seats get coverage (below the screen could mean front seats hinder the sound going to the back seats).

You may want to see what kind of amp is suitable to drive the speakers loud enough, so a PA amp may be needed, though you'll need to ensure you can get the signal from the BD/DVD player - perhaps from some pre-outs at the back, but research that to ensure it can be done. I don't see why it can't.

I'm sure you can get a half decent result on your budget, but it will need some research and checking of components. Ebay may be useful once you know what you need.

Gary

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post #4 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 07:00 AM
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Here's another thread on AVS with similar constraints.

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1342983/building-a-dinner-theater-w-diy-speakers-subs-etc

It's long but there's a ton of information there. Does your school have a woodwork program? Could be a really cool collaboration to have students build speakers.

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post #5 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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yup... typo.  room is 33x30.

 

Seating is taken care of out of a different budget.

 

good info though, thank you!

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post #6 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I am the woodwork program.  I build the sets etc. for the theatre, but there isn't a woodwork class.  I've thought about building the speakers, but thats a lot more time in construction than I would like.

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post #7 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 08:29 AM
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post #8 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I use a lot of the Berhringer powered PA units (running live sound in medium venues) I like the idea of using them in this application... I guess I just don't know much about their fidelity.  

 

what if I used the active ones instead of the passive? clearly the on-board amps are probably a source for unwanted noise - but it would be a cost effective solution.

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post #9 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, to answer the screen size question it will be almost exactly  16'x9' - thats ideal... but might have to change according to lens/projector setup.

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post #10 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acritchlow View Post

I use a lot of the Berhringer powered PA units (running live sound in medium venues) I like the idea of using them in this application... I guess I just don't know much about their fidelity.  

what if I used the active ones instead of the passive? clearly the on-board amps are probably a source for unwanted noise - but it would be a cost effective solution.

You could use the active ones, you could also get behringer Inuke amps at $100 channel and have the built in DSP circuitry to equalize the sound and add delay if needed.

http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu1000dsp-inuke-1000-watt-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6702
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post #11 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
RE control unit: This seems like it would be a place to cut out if/when the budgets gets tight. Do you plan to have media stored on a network? Would this simply be for turning on/off equipment and adjusting volume? Seems an expensive novelty given the budget and the other things that needs to be bought still

I need to idiot proof  the system.  A few of the faculty here is a slow, and will pitch a fit if they have to push more than one button to get the system to work... so while it seems a bit excessive, a good touch screen or easy AV control unit is mandatory.  It need to select source, and control volume (as well as power on whole system and shut down).  

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post #12 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, here is what I have so far:

 

Yamaha CX-A5000BL AVENTAGE 11.2-Channel AV Pre-Amplifier - no on-board amp since the speakers are powered

 

Epson  Home Cinema 5030UB

 

5x Behringer EUROLIVE VS1220 High-Performance 600-Watt PA Speaker with 12 Woofer And Electro-Dynamic Driver - Not sold on this solution, but its a start

 

2x JBL EON 518S Portable 18-inch 500-Watt Self-Powered Subwoofer

 

the whole thing comes to about $7100 - but I still need a control unit (and hardware etc.)

 

Anyone have thoughts on that? 

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post #13 of 17 Old 03-01-2014, 02:26 PM
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Look at iRule for control.

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post #14 of 17 Old 03-02-2014, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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iRule is great, but I don't want each faculty member to have to download and install an app on thier phone... nor to I want to leave a tablet in the room (it will just walk away).

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post #15 of 17 Old 03-02-2014, 11:13 AM
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they make "secure" wall mount brackets for ipads

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post #16 of 17 Old 03-02-2014, 02:39 PM
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post #17 of 17 Old 03-02-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
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Yea they do.

I edited my post^^^

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