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kmhvball 05-13-2014 01:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

you would also need it shorter. My concern is the latch mechanism. I guess the outer door should be a ball catch or magnetic affair that could be forced open by applying pressure to the inner door. Otherwise if there was any mechanical failrure of the link mechanism you would be trapped.

But if the door is closed, how do you open it from the outside? Perhaps both doors need to be ball and catch affairs. Then the question is how good are the seals?


Hmmm... I hadn't though about either the latching or the 'height'... I think I'll just go with opposite direction swings!   Thanks for the voice of experience!


kmhvball 06-06-2014 08:25 AM

Grafik Eye Zone Wiring Flexibility Question...

 

I am in the process of planning my rough in wiring for grafik eye and my initial thought is I want my two rear Sconce lights & Rear Recessed lights over the bar on the same Zone.

 

I will also have 4 Sconce lights on the side walls towards the back of my theater room which will be on a separate zone.  I am thinking, maybe I might change my mind to want those two rear Sconces with the other g'back of theater' sconces.

 

I am assuming as long as I wire the Rear Sconces & the Rear Recessed lights independently back to the Gang Box, that, I could later ‘switch’ the connection of those two rear sconces to the ‘other 4’ back of theater side wall sconces.   


Here is a simply diagram of what I am thinking the circle's are my recessed lights and the cylinders are my sconces, the 'red' box is a wire nut of sorts, so, however the 'incoming' lights are hooked up to the G.E. unit, I would combine these two 'circuits' first into a single circuit, and then connect to the G.E.    If Later, I decided to 'switch' the two rear sconces to join with the 4 rear of theater sconces, I would simply re-wire where the wire nut is.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Would this type of set up work with Grafik Eye?  or once I do my wiring, is it largely fixed (and thus, might as well run the wire the most efficient way and link all directly together vs two separate runs back to the box).  


jautor 06-06-2014 09:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

I am assuming as long as I wire the Rear Sconces & the Rear Recessed lights independently back to the Gang Box, that, I could later ‘switch’ the connection of those two rear sconces to the ‘other 4’ back of theater side wall sconces.   

Yes, that is what I did and what I'd recommend. Home run wires from each 'type' of lighting to the GrafikEye box so that you have some flexibility to combine / separate loads into the available zones. For me this was easy as my wiring converges in an attic space behind the GE location. So don't go crazy as there's already a lot of romex coming into that box - but do enough to allow for some flexibility.
Quote:
Here is a simply diagram of what I am thinking the circle's are my recessed lights and the cylinders are my sconces, the 'red' box is a wire nut of sorts, so, however the 'incoming' lights are hooked up to the G.E. unit, I would combine these two 'circuits' first into a single circuit, and then connect to the G.E.    If Later, I decided to 'switch' the two rear sconces to join with the 4 rear of theater sconces, I would simply re-wire where the wire nut is.

Would this type of set up work with Grafik Eye? 

Yes, that will work fine.

Jeff

Sands_at_Pier147 06-06-2014 09:08 AM

Yes, that will not be a problem.


kmhvball 06-06-2014 09:18 AM

Thanks for the confirmation guys!   The Grafik Eye thread is HUGE, so, I was hoping I could get a response!


kmhvball 06-09-2014 07:38 AM

Rendered Images of Planned Theater... Here are a few images of what my tentative plan is for my Theater.   I am not doing these images, someone else volunteered to do so, so, this is the extent of what I have and not sure if I'll get more.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

The 'columns' are only 12" wide and the lights are 4" wide and the columns are essentially 'flush' with the 1" fabric treatment/panels.  I am wondering if I should go a bit wider on the columns, say 16 - 18".   My plan is using 'in wall' speakers, which would be hidden behind the fabric on the walls.  My other consideration is using 'in wall' speakers, but built into the Columns (thus contained inside the room) which would also allow for better placement.   The downside is this would would make the columns jut out ~ 3" each and cut down on Aisle width.   My estimate as of now is that from the wall/column to the edge of the chairs on each side is ~ 33" in the rear (slightly more in the front).  The 'lights' stick out 5", so, that cuts it down to 28" if you include those.    Insetting the columns makes for 25" clearance from the lights, but to the degree the columns aren't right beside the furniture, this might not be a factor.


WarrenBerry 06-09-2014 09:00 AM

The coke can and bottle of jack d should be switched...

kmhvball 06-10-2014 11:25 AM

Updated original Post & 'current' rough image of my floor plan.  

 

- I have revised my original post for changes I have made since posting originally

 

-  Here is an updated 'floor plan' as I am currently thinking of it.

 

 

The 3D plan/ Image Rendering has led me to shift around the column location a bit, and likely will not build speakers into the columns (as opposed to walls).   To fit my AVS door in where I want it, and have the width of columns for the speakers I want, this is what I have come up with.    The space in front of the very first columns from the Screen will be all black to help with reflections.   

 

The rest of the walls, are a little TBD.  The 'Top & bottom" will likely look like the rendering, but not sure if we'll stick with Black & Gray, or go another combination (such as the popular Black & Red scheme).  I have a few samples of 'Patterned' Fabric that I like as well, but debating if any patterns are to subject to being 'dated'.

 

I think I'll likely use Fabric Mate tracks, so, some future flexibility with those if needed.

 

If anything catches your eye as 'wrong'/ sub-optimal, etc. let me know.  I am hoping to start my wiring in the next week or so.   The framing is largely done, I think I just need to move my AVS door a little (and complete the door entrances, I haven't framed the bottoms yet given I don't want a trip hazard).


kmhvball 06-12-2014 12:52 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Color Selection Opinions...

I am planning to do Fabric Panels on my walls of a 'solid' color'. I am currently considering three options as below. Anyone think one is much better or worse than the others, or, simple user preference?

Black & Red:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602172

Black & Gray
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

All Black:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

kmhvball 06-13-2014 08:50 AM

Well, I last night I made my 12 'backer boxes', which maybe I would call more of a 'Backer Sandwich", it took about an hour in total.

I ended up with this configuration:
3/4" MDF Solid with Green Glue
5/8" Drywall Solid w Green Glue
3/8" Drywall w/ Hole w Green Glue
3/8" Dyrwall w/ Hole

I used this based on the concern expressed about Fire hazard, figuring the fire-rated drywall would be the way to go - and frankly, much easier to 'cut' that as well, so, doing it again - I probably would do two layers of the 5/8" solid Drywall.

Then with the two ceiling layers of 5/8" drywall, the box depth will match my ceiling depth with my 'backer' boxes.

Here are the parts in there individual piece forms...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402673990

Here are the parts with Green Glue applied... "Learning", I applied the GG to the 'fronts', defined as the part on the Theater side vs the 'ceiling/subfloor' side of the MDF, 5/8" Drywall, and the 3/8" Drywall... This meant when I did the 5/8" drywall 'all over', the 3/8" light box 'hole' had GG all over. So, to do it again, I would put the GG on the 'theater side' of the two 3/8" drywall layers, and the theater side of the 5/8" drywall layer..

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402673990

Here is what the 'final' product looks like. These will be installed onto the subfloor side of the drywall in the correct locations before the Drywall is lifted into place. The circle at the top is the Surface Mount LED light.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402673990

We'll see how this all works out.

KNKKNK 06-13-2014 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 24911945)
Color Selection Opinions...

I am planning to do Fabric Panels on my walls of a 'solid' color'. I am currently considering three options as below. Anyone think one is much better or worse than the others, or, simple user preference?

The renderings are cool....

Im in the same boat trying to decide on a color palette so Ill play!
In order of my personnel prefrence:
Red on Black
Black on Black
Grey on black

Mfusick 07-16-2014 08:15 AM

<- In. Surprised I've never read your thread before.

kmhvball 07-16-2014 11:30 AM

I had a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim installed a few weeks back and it seems to be working fine. I got the unit that has cooling & heating capability. They had me prep the area for placement, i.e., put up my 1 layer of OSB & 1 Layer of Drywall, plus another 1" piece to bring the unit out to where the Fabric Panels are.

My current plant for 'air exchanges' is as follows:

- using a Tjerlund In-Line duct fan, hook up a 6" flex duct and take it to the front of the theater room. This unit will be under-neath the stairs from my 1st floor coming into the basement (i.e., outside the theater walls), and pull in 'fresh' air from the main basement area (which is 'open' to the first floor as well, i.e., no door at the bottom or top of the stairs from 1st floor to basement).

- install a Panasonic WhisperCeiling fan (FV-15VQ5) in my theater room, and run a 6" flex duct 'outlet' to an adjacent room (i.e., pull stale air out of theater)

- install a Panasonic WhisperCeiling fan (FV-08VQ5) in my AV Clost, and run a 6" flex duct 'outlet' to an adjacent room (pull stale/hot air out of theater)

My main basement area has a large Return Air duct into the main trunk line, as well as air supply in a few locations.

Other Updates:
- my 2 layers of Drywall & Green Glue have been fixed to the sub-floor above my theater room

- I am hoping to finish my wiring for my basement this weekend, I plan to 'hang' my Backer Box/ Backer Sandwich units via IB3 clips and if I get that far, I'll post a picture

- I have scheduled for Insulation company to come do the install next Thursday... I did a cost comparison between doing it myself & having them do it, and their price was good enough to make me break out my wallet and pay them to do it.

I originally had my two electric boxes 'split' on my screen wall, and paid someone to come move them together. I had a Skype Consult with Big, and as I 'walked him' around the theater... he noticed that I didn't have enough room for the drywall on that wall... So, I had the opportunity to stimulate the economy, and have them moved again... this time, for only $50 vs the $500 last time!

This theater is part of finishing my whole basement, which is about 2,400 square feet - so, it is moving at a snails pace. I have done the framing, and the majority of the electric... I am definitely hiring out Drywall.

I am intrigued now by DIY Sub-woofers, looking at a 24" driver... thinking, maybe mount two on my screen wall, in a 27" high x 24" deep x 8-10' wide box (maybe two separate boxes). Can't decide if I want to go out on that limb though.

Mfusick 07-16-2014 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 25793905)
I am intrigued now by DIY Sub-woofers, looking at a 24" driver... thinking, maybe mount two on my screen wall, in a 27" high x 24" deep x 8-10' wide box (maybe two separate boxes). Can't decide if I want to go out on that limb though.

That's a big ass sub. Plan B might be a Ghallerhorn horn loaded sub (a total monster) or a simple and more cost effective "marty cube" style ported sub.

Those are two alternate designs with a lot of bass performance for the dollars. No commercial sub I know of will hang with those dollar for dollar , or driver for driver.

Info on the Ghorn:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=45

118.3db @ 16hz in an open field, no room gain- on a 100 degree day where amps would shut off from being too hot. Verified and tested. Not too many commercial subs are tested like this, they usually have inflated numbers inside the room so it's not apples to apples. Above 16hz it just get's louder. One is enough for over reference levels.

http://www.data-bass.com/images/syst...20GH%20480.JPG

That's a heck of a DIY sub project.

Something easier is this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post23711347

Swap out the drive for the UXL18 and it pounds senselessly. (4) will crap all over any sub from any MFG you can buy for the same cost. Probably crap all over MFG subs that cost double actually. Easy build. 24" by 48" "handi panels" design you can buy precut at any HD or get the wood cut easily. Designed to make efficient use of sheet of ply or MDF. Much easier DIY project than a Ghorn, almost as much balls. :)

kmhvball 07-17-2014 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mfusick (Post 25805153)
...or a simple and more cost effective "marty cube" style ported sub.

Those are two alternate designs with a lot of bass performance for the dollars. No commercial sub I know of will hang with those dollar for dollar , or driver for driver.

Something easier is this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post23711347

Swap out the driver for the UXL18 and it pounds senselessly. (:)

I like the size of the Martycube, and doing 2 of them... Have you seen anyone do a single enclosure of 8' long with opposed Drivers? I am clueless about that stuff, so, not sure if that helps or hurts, but have seen a few builds with multiple drivers in the same box, so, just a thought.

How about opposed 18" drivers in the same 'traditional' martycube size?

There are tons & tons of builds, hard to go through all of them.

Mfusick 07-17-2014 10:25 AM

I did a dual 15" box ported at 20hz that was 42" tall by 24" deep and wide. Yeah people do that thing all the time, like a double "marty" box. I laugh at the term "marty" because I guess that is the fad name for "ported subwoofers" these days. There is a funny thread in the DIY forum about that. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...mber-when.html

Funny read if you understand the background.

Tell me what you ideally want, I can try to offer up some advice or a build plan. Have you played with WinISD PRO ?

kmhvball 07-17-2014 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mfusick (Post 25819721)
I did a dual 15" box ported at 20hz that was 42" tall by 24" deep and wide. Yeah people do that thing all the time, like a double "marty" box. I laugh at the term "marty" because I guess that is the fad name for "ported subwoofers" these days. There is a funny thread in the DIY forum about that. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...mber-when.html

Funny read if you understand the background.

Tell me what you ideally want, I can try to offer up some advice or a build plan. Have you played with WinISD PRO ?

I just started this thread in the DIY section...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-all-cost.html

I am not real educated on this, but had seen another one of your posts that talked tuning to 20hz or even 22 hz might be 'better' than tuning down to 14 hz... so, really, looking for kind of a best all around sub woofer plan.

Mfusick 07-17-2014 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 25820001)
I just started this thread in the DIY section...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-all-cost.html

I am not real educated on this, but had seen another one of your posts that talked tuning to 20hz or even 22 hz might be 'better' than tuning down to 14 hz... so, really, looking for kind of a best all around sub woofer plan.

Should I reply here or there? Does it matter?

Porting is a trade off. You gain additional output at "port tune" frequency but you then sacrifice output away from it, particularly below the port tune where your response drops more rapidly than sealed. So what you are doing is you are trading SPL output for frequency response, by raising your port tune you can often get a couple more decibels of SPL output and usually this boost can happen in the exciting parts of the bass region (25hz-60hz) where there is a lot of content in both movies and music. If you crave "loud" then the higher port tune is better. If you want to get kicked in the balls, then port a tad higher IMO. In real life the louder subwoofer is the more impressive one, there isn't much material under 20hz anyways.

The other side of the camp is the guys that don't listen too loud. This might be personal preference, or it might be because of disturbing others. In any event if you won't play it as loud as it goes, then sometimes it might make sense to tune a bit lower and grab that extra ULF (ultra low frequency) extension. You can't really hear below 20hz, but you can feel it at enough volume, so going a little lower lends itself to that infrasonic feeling. Other guys just buy Crowson transducers for that, which is probably more effective anyways.

You can port at 10hz and go way stupid low, or you can port at 30hz and go way stupid loud. Most professional PA and concert level subwoofers (think Metallica show) are horn loaded (even louder than ported) and they are tuned at 35hz or 40hz. They don't care about the 20hz stuff or under, they just need it loud in the exciting parts of the bass region. I think the lowest bass note is 31hz, (6 string bass tuned down half step ) so they don't need response at 15hz, they need tons of volume at 40hz. In these cases they sacrifice the extension down low for output.

No right or wrong answer. Some guys like loud. Some guys like low. Most guys want both. To get both you need to tune low, and then use additional and multiple subwoofers to get the "loud" part. You gain additional output every time you add more subs. That's how you get your cake and you get to eat it too.

In your case with $2000 to work with I'd suggest 4 of the UXL18 drivers in larger ported enclosures tuned to 16hz. You'll have plenty of low and plenty of loud. In comparison to the SVS sub you are considering these will slap it around, steal it's lunch money, and downright embarrass it. That would be a lot of bass. I'm not sure you have heard that much bass in a big space or inside a home before. You can always add more subs again in the future too :)

Ideally you want to keep all your ported subs tuned the same, because the phase varies at port tune. That's why you should also stick with either all sealed or all ported, because mixing them can be problematic from a calibration standpoint. So you should tune them all the same, it's usually easier to build the exact same thing a second, third or 4th time anyways. If you make sub boxes, do them all at the same time it won't take much longer to make a few more identical cuts. Much easier than building them one at a time.

grubadub 07-17-2014 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 24911945)
Color Selection Opinions...

I am planning to do Fabric Panels on my walls of a 'solid' color'. I am currently considering three options as below. Anyone think one is much better or worse than the others, or, simple user preference?

Black & Red:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602172

Black & Gray
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

All Black:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

red panels that turn black at the flip of a switch (when the movie starts ;))

kmhvball 07-25-2014 08:01 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Late Wednesday night and early Thursday, I ran all/ most of the wiring in my Theater and the Insulators came in Thursday and put in all the insulation.

I failed to realize they didn't follow the 'instructions'... the wall between theater & AVS Closet was supposed to be insulated, and they didn't. Anyone think this is a big deal? The far sides of the AVS closet still are insulated.

The left side of this image is the AVS Closet, the 'door' on the right is the Entry door. I still need to frame the bottom of the doors at the Riser Height, but waiting till 'last minute' to avoid the trip hazard!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406299994


Picture Looking towards the front of the room

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406300016

Picture of the Rear of the Room.. .you can see the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim on the right. One of the 'expenses' this Forum has costs me!! (original plan was no HVAC)

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406300016

And lastly the ceiling...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406300016

My tentative plan is to put the OSB & clips/Channel up over the next 1-2 weekends and start Drywall on Monday, August 11. This is part of the whole basement drywall (~2400 square feet of floor space), so, not sure how fast things will move. I am hiring the Drywall out, so, that should help, but I think there are just a few people who work with the company doing it, so, maybe not as fast as some.

Mfusick 07-25-2014 08:49 AM

Insulation is good, you want it. It's cheap and effective. No reason not to do it if the wall is still open IMO.

Silva741 07-29-2014 04:50 PM

Hi Kevin. I’ve been trying to reach you, but your mailbox may be filtering my address. Can you please check your mails/PM's?

But BTW, the room is looking good. The AC as last minute addition will break the design a bit, but if no other way to do it, so be it. It'll still look very cool, for sure.

kmhvball 08-18-2014 12:49 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Current updates...

The plywood was put up on the walls:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391247

Here is how I am installing my 'recessed' lights with my minimalistic 'backer sandwich'/ backer boxes... I used IB-3 clips to attach them to the Joists, and installed the 'bottom' of the Drywall 1 1/8" down from the joist (so, it will be flush with the drywall).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391249


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391249

Here is a picture of my 4 Gang Masonry box for my Grafik Eye... mounted on the Plywood to minimize wall penetrations. I'll be placing this 'inside' a column.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391249

The 1st layer of Drywall is now up on the ceiling, but don't have a picture yet.

J_P_A 08-18-2014 07:17 PM

Are you concerned about the lights not having any space to dissipate heat? I know they're LEDs, and the instructions on those things are pretty vague about what type mountings are acceptable.

kmhvball 08-19-2014 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_P_A (Post 26685961)
Are you concerned about the lights not having any space to dissipate heat? I know they're LEDs, and the instructions on those things are pretty vague about what type mountings are acceptable.

A little, but not too much. I did change my initial plan... I was originally going to use MDF for everything above the ceiling drywall, but opted to go with Fire Rated Drywall for the 'hole cut out' layer(s) and the 1st full layer of backer material. I hope that is Safer, and it was definitely easier to work with!

In general though, since the 'instructions' state the normal junction/light boxes are acceptable, I am not too worried. Hopefully, I won't have a 'Theater V2.0, post Fire Build" any time in the future!

Mfusick 08-19-2014 05:18 AM

Are you doing this build solo ? On your own ?

kmhvball 08-19-2014 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mfusick (Post 26693658)
Are you doing this build solo ? On your own ?

I'll do most things other than the Drywall and Carpet.

I did hire an electrician to 'move' my two main service panel boxes to a better spot. Still not great, but much better than it was. I have done all the wiring and hooking breakers up into the panel.

I also had a buddy come give me a hand with the plywood, although, that didn't turn out to be too bad. I initially thought holding the board up to get it started would be a challenge... but I bought a 2' x 4' x 1/4" piece of plywood to set on the floor. I put the plywood on top to get a 1/4" gap at the bottom... then screwed in a corner, made sure it was level/plumb, and kept moving.

panino 08-28-2014 07:00 PM

Kevin, just took a look through your thread finally. Looks like your theater is coming along! Keep up the good work. I'm like you... I tackle most things myself DIY. Word of warning if you start thinking about doing your own drywall... hanging it isn't too bad. But the taping and mudding is time consuming and pretty messy. I probably would have contracted this part out if I did it again. I hate to pass up a good "experience" though. :p

kmhvball 10-17-2014 10:03 AM

Well, my progress over the past 2 months has been painfully slow, and that is with hiring out the Drywall... The people doing it were horribly slow/ terrible at showing up, and it took FOREVER... granted, they did my whole basement, but it was very painful.

They are now 'done', so, I'll take some pictures this weekend, but frankly - looks a lot like the OSB pictures, now just has drywall.

I am debating the approach on a few things and would be happy to hear any opinions...

AV "Rack"...
My AV equipment will be in its' own room. The room is roughly 10' long by 44" wide. Given this is 'out of site', I thought I could do a 'poor mans' Rack, and use a Closet-Maid/Rubber-Made Wire Shelf type systems. I figure if I had three vertical bars, the top support rail, and then did the close Mesh 20" shelves, I could use that as an "AV Rack". I thought if the 'feet' of the equipment were falling through the cracks, I could just use those little 'coaster' type things for the bottom of furniture feet. I thought maybe this would allow better air flow too...

Any thoughts/ concerns about this approach?

Paint Approach
Another question is the best "Painting" approach for my Columns & Subwoofers... I haven't really used a spray gun type system before, but wondered about getting one to use with my air compressor, and whether that would be more efficient for a 'novice' like me, or whether I would be better off just using a brush and/or roller?

Speaker Grill Painting
Also... related to A/V stuff, but not in my theater room.. I have In Wall speakers in my Great Room, and the Grills are painted white, and my wife wants them to 'match' the walls. Anyone have a good way to do this? I tried very, very, light coats and that was still plugging up the holes (I had one old grill that I experimented on).

Happy to hear anyone's thoughts!

panino 10-30-2014 08:20 PM

Kevin, regarding your painting question... I'd probably use a small roller and brush for things like columns. I'd reserve a sprayer only for use outside since those things aerosolize the paint into such small droplets that they get everywhere. Some paint may dry before it even hits the surface leaving you with a real mess to clean up if indoors.


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