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kmhvball 03-29-2014 11:32 AM

Cinema-Nati Theater Build
 
7 Attachment(s)
Hello All,

(Updating First Post with completed pictures)

I finished my basement and part of it is a dedicated home theater area. This will be 95%+ for tv/movie watching. Of that, I would guess 80%+ will be movies... with the rest random tv & sports viewing.

Here are pictures of the (almost) finished product... I did some paint touch up and tiny few other things, but this is mostly it.

Screen Wall with two Full Size Marty UXL-18s in front of it..
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1464865179

Right Side (as seated)
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1455049479

Left Side:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1455049479

Rear of Room:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1455049479

Back Bar- quite tight, can barely open the door with bar stools pushed all the way forward.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1455049479

LED Lights behind the columns... they are set up in 4 pairs of columns, each can be made its' own color/brightness - turned on/off.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1453308922

Here is what they look like with lights on.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1453308922


Below is the basic lay-out.
- The theater room is ~ 22'6" feet x ~ 17'6" wide with current sound treatment plans,
- the main ceiling height is 8'8", the 'green bar' is a Steel I-beam running the length of the theater. The bottom of this is ~ 8' from the floor.
- The yellow circle is a support post,~ 3 feet from the side wall.
- Between the I-beam & the wall are the main HVAC air return ducts for the 1st floor.
- The two Red boxes are my electric service panels (also have a small additional sub-panel elsewhere), these will be flush with the wall..
- my AVS equipment will be in the ~ 4' wide x 10'8" room along the one side

The black exterior is the concrete foundation, and the 'blue' walls are the framed 2x4 walls. The wall on the bottom with the equipment rack is a 2x6 staggered stud wall.

- Entrance wall into theater is parallel 2x4 walls, using communicating door assembly. The door on the 'rest of basement side' of theater is 1/2" laminated glass - my very rough understanding is the laminated glass process provides some 'dampening' type effects on sound transfer, the 'theater side' door is a flat, solid 1 3/4" Mahogany door which I'll use Zero international jambs/bottom.
- The light'ish colored boxes along wall are columns which will be ~ 3-4" deep and just with Sconce lights - although, pre-wiring for possible future speaker enhancements
- the turquoise colored boxes along the walls are columns with 'built in' Speakers for Surround & Rear (front row is planned main row)
- The light gray area is all my planned 'main level' Riser, ~ 7" tall, allowing for a step up outside the theater, and then where there is soffit, a bit more head room
- Orange under the 2nd row is a higher level Riser, call it 11-12" high
- the "Yellow" is a TBD, I may choose to carry the height of the last step into the basement onto a landing & becoming the same level as the first/light great Theater Riser. Otherwise, they'll be a step down, and then a step back up to the riser.

https://www.avsforum.com/content/type...t/700/flags/LL


Immediately above this room is our breakfast room & Hearth Room with hardwood floors.

Sound reduction:
- Subfloor/ceiling: Green Glue + 5/8" Drywall + GG + 5/8" drywall attached to the OSB sub-floor above
- Pink Fluffy Insulation
- Ceiling: IB-1 Clips clips & Hat Channel, ~5/8" Drywall + GG, + 5/8" Drywall
- Walls: ~1/2" OSB + G.G. + 5/8" Drywall,attached to subfloor with IB-3 Clips
- putty pads & acoustic sealant at various places
- communicating door assembly, exterior door sills on 'outside of theater' door and Zero International seals to be on inside of theater door.

Seating Plan: - 9 Palliser Lemans seats
- Row 1 |0V00V0|, ~ 137" wide
- Row 2 |0|000|0| (or |00|0|00|) ~ 142" wide
- Row 3 18" deep bar & 5 bar stools

AV Equipment
Speakers:
- 5 Klipsch KL-7800-THX for the front LCR & 2 rear Surrounds
- 4 Klipsch KS-7800-THX for either 2 sets of surrounds or 1 set of surrounds and a width surrounds.
- 2 full size Marty/Ported Subs with UXL-18" Drivers

Screen:
- Falcon Horizon, 2.35:1 Acoustically Transparent screen 132" Wide

Projector:
- JVC RS-4910, in large part for the CIH/ auto zoom functionality

Other AV Equipment
- Denon AVR-4520...
- iNuke 6000 DSP for Subwoofers
- HTPC running Plex Media Server
- Roku 4
- Harmony Elite Remote contorl

Sound Treatments
- until about a month before I started, when someone recommended looking at AVS science forum, I had no idea about this
- 1" thick Fabric Frames of some type with Linacoustic RC up to ear height & poly-cotton above ear height
- screen wall will be layer of Linacoustic RC/ 6 mil plastic/ layer of Linacoustic RC
- Rear wall, 1" linacoustic RC type treatment

Lighting -
- 8 Columns (3 each side, 2 rear) with LED Light Strips on each side
- 3 4" Halo Surface Mount LED "can" lights for the screen, row 1, above row 2, and between bar/rear of room
- Insteon Hub & Insteon Light Switches... Tied into Harmony Elite buttons for different scenes

HVAC Plan
- Mini-Split Supply for Heat & Air
- poor mans Dead Vent to supply fresh air (fan in a 6" flex duct from under stairs outside room, into front portion of room)
- Put vent in rear of room, venting into adjacent room. both from theater and AVS close
- Vent fans are tied into a switch in the equipment room


Overall, I am amazed by a lot of the theater's in this forum and the knowledge & insights of many of you. I would appreciate any thoughts you have to make a plan a bit better :-)

Thanks,

Kevin

Tedd 03-29-2014 04:35 PM

14 bodies at rest will produce a significant heat load that needs to be dealt with. You will also want to address air changes.

Do you really need all those seats? Is this a real world need or more of a want?

The Grafic Eye will need to be wired up front, with lights zoned. The zones could be all tied together in the short term.

Why not just mount the screen with cleats?

BIGmouthinDC 03-29-2014 05:38 PM

how far into the room is the electrical panel? your screen won't be more than 12 ft wide so that leaves 33 inches on each side.

Your soundprooging plans will turn this room into an airtight well insulated space, if you don't plan for cooling, even in winter, your room will put your guests to sleep due to the warm temperature and lack of oxygen.

jautor 03-29-2014 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

 - HVAC:  Do I 'need' supply/returns? 

Yes, absolutely.
Quote:
- Sequencing - what can be done 'later' vs planned during the framing/ initial construction.   Can things like Insteon, Graffic Eye, Cinemar, Control4, additional amps, etc. be added 'later' or do I need to 'pre-wire' now for that?  Can a front stage be added 'later' or does that need to be planned for during framing/ before drywall/sound reduction treatments?

As Tedd already noted, electrical needs to be planned out in advance. GrafikEye is a great solution, but needs all the loads to be brought to a single 4-gang location. Plan for several separate lighting "zones" as you wire so that you *can* control them independently. You can always combine them on a single switch - but you can't separate them after the fact...
Quote:
How do I determine location of Projector mount (very likely ceiling mounted)... do I need to know projector & screen now to determine this?

No, but you should get an idea based on your budget / choice of projector(s). But generally, a throw range of say 12-16' is a good start. Screen size will be based on your seating distances and some amount of personal preference, too. Pick that last if you're not sure (you can test the projector in the room and make adjustments before buying a real screen).
Quote:
The black exterior is the concrete foundation, and the 'blue' walls are the framed 2x4 walls.   I'll have a  double wall on the entrance wall and be using communicating door assembly. 

What about including the hallway outside as part of the entry - make it an "airlock" instead of the communicating doors...
Quote:
The first door will be 1 3/4" with 1/2" laminated glass

Why would you use a door with glass when it will face a solid door? Glass is the worst door material for sound transfer... Plenty of decorative treatments you can do to a solid door to make it look nicer.
Quote:
Immediately above this room is our breakfast room & Hearth Room with hardwood floors. 

Given that I'm glad you're taking aggressive steps to control sound transmission from those floors!
Quote:
Tentative Seating Plan:
- as illustrated, would like two rows of reclining seats' likely 4 unless I can squeeze 5 in (maybe straight vs curved)
- an ~ 18" deep bar & bar stools to make a '3rd' row of sorts

Five seats won't fit assuming theater recliners. And do you really expect >12 folks for a true theater experience? Super bowl parties are always "overflow" conditions, for example - but it's rare that I get 12 folks (adults) to show for a movie and fill up my theater...
Quote:
Screen:
- TBD, leanings towards 2.35:1 Accoustically Transparent screen, not sure how large I can get

Your room is very similar to mine - I have a 136" 2.35 screen - I wouldn't go any bigger given the front row distance.
Quote:
Sound Treatments
- until about a month ago when someone recommended looking at AVS science forum, I had no idea about this - so, still very much in the undecided.  I have reviewed lot of information through-out the forum on this, so, things like screen wall treatment, fabric panels on side walls, etc will be done - but part of the 'sequencing question'... i.e., how much of this can I do 'later' after the main theater is complete

Plan now. Figure out how you want to apply acoustic treatments. That will affect the "look" and style of the room significantly, and planning for electrical outlets, lighting fixtures, door placement, etc. can all affect that plan. You don't have to finalize the exact treatments (and you shouldn't) beforehand, but you should have a direction in mind. And yes, you will want them immediately.
Quote:
Lighting -
 - I know this is one I need to nail down a bit as it is 'pre-drywall'... leaning towards wall sconces, and maybe 3 4" can lights for the screen, maybe 3-4 above main rows, maybe a 'track light'/ single penetration above bar area

I have six lighting zones, and could have used a 7th for a very similar room size/layout. More light sources at very low light levels is better for a theater so you can control the light and minimize how much hits the screen during the movie.

Jeff

roccoleach 03-30-2014 07:06 AM

21 Attachment(s)
Gg+ drywall attached to osb subfloor made wonderful improvements to the tapping of shoes heard from above (especially my wife's high heels) then after the double r13, and double sheetrock with gg, I can't hear anything short of someone purposely stomping.

kmhvball 03-30-2014 09:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

how far into the room is the electrical panel? your screen won't be more than 12 ft wide so that leaves 33 inches on each side.

Your soundprooging plans will turn this room into an airtight well insulated space, if you don't plan for cooling, even in winter, your room will put your guests to sleep due to the warm temperature and lack of oxygen.


Here is a picture of the electric boxes,

 - the one on the right... right side is 10" from current (pre framed) wall, left side is 25" from current wall.  my challenge with this one is a front corner bass trap

 - the box on the left, the right side is ~48" from current wall and the left side is ~ 64" from the current wall, the challenge with this one is the screen.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Sounds like nearly universal votes for HVAC plans, so, I"ll  research a bit more and definitely include plans for that.

 

Thanks,


Kevin


kmhvball 03-30-2014 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

14 bodies at rest will produce a significant heat load that needs to be dealt with. You will also want to address air changes.

Do you really need all those seats? Is this a real world need or more of a want?

The Grafic Eye will need to be wired up front, with lights zoned. The zones could be all tied together in the short term.

Why not just mount the screen with cleats?

 

Based on responses, definitely will be doing some HVAC work now. 

 

All those seats are definitely the 'exception' planning, we have a family of 4 so, most of the time it will be us and maybe a few of the kids friends, but a few times a year I am sure it iwll be more.

 

I am not sure what you mean by mounting the screen with cleats?

 

I appreciate your time & thoughts!


kmhvball 03-30-2014 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by roccoleach View Post

Gg+ drywall attached to osb subfloor made wonderful improvements to the tapping of shoes heard from above (especially my wife's high heels) then after the double r13, and double sheetrock with gg, I can't hear anything short of someone purposely stomping.

 

 

Good to hear, thanks for the real world feedback.  I do plan to have insulation as well, despite omitting that in my original post! 


kmhvball 03-30-2014 09:18 AM

Jeff, thanks for the very in depth reply... this one will take a bit of time to read through, and I'll look through your Build post as well.  I had previously looked at some of yours already, but will spend a bit more time given similarity of dimensions and what not.  10' ceilings would have been nice!!


roccoleach 03-30-2014 09:33 AM

21 Attachment(s)
My HVAC guy gave me 2 returns and 2 vents in the room. he said simply turning the hvac to "fan" when i enter the room will keep it balanced well.

kmhvball 03-31-2014 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

As Tedd already noted, electrical needs to be planned out in advance. GrafikEye is a great solution, but needs all the loads to be brought to a single 4-gang location. Plan for several separate lighting "zones" as you wire so that you *can* control them independently. You can always combine them on a single switch - but you can't separate them after the fact...
I have six lighting zones, and could have used a 7th for a very similar room size/layout. More light sources at very low light levels is better for a theater so you can control the light and minimize how much hits the screen during the movie.
 

 

When you reference combining into a single 4-gang box, can that be the same 4 gang box as I would have to have four separate switches?   Meaning, incoming power into a 4 gang box, split to 4 switches, and power out to the lights? 

 

Or is it, I have my normal wiring and I have to 'add' an additional 4-gang box?  I looked briefly on the Grafik Eye web-site and the illustrations weren't particularly intuitive to me. 

 

I will likely have maybe more than 4, but trying to understand if they are on int he same or separate boxes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

No, but you should get an idea based on your budget / choice of projector(s). But generally, a throw range of say 12-16' is a good start. Screen size will be based on your seating distances and some amount of personal preference, too. Pick that last if you're not sure (you can test the projector in the room and make adjustments before buying a real screen).
 
Your room is very similar to mine - I have a 136" 2.35 screen - I wouldn't go any bigger given the front row distance.
 

 

Is your 136", 136" wide or Diagonal?   I assume wide based on your post about fitting an 11 1/2" wide screen into your area, but wanted to double check.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

What about including the hallway outside as part of the entry - make it an "airlock" instead of the communicating doors...

Why would you use a door with glass when it will face a solid door? Glass is the worst door material for sound transfer... Plenty of decorative treatments you can do to a solid door to make it look nicer.

 

I thought about an 'airlock'/ entry way hallway,but it didn't fit very well/ my wife didn't like the design that would require.   I wanted to use a bit of an off-set space, building the 'angled wall' into the Theater room as an 'entrance' and then the same flat back wall, but my wife wasn't interested in that.

 

In terms of the Glass door, there are two factors... 1) it is the appearance from the rest of the basement looking 'into' where the Theater is.   2) one I haven't been able to find real good data on, but the fact that Laminated Glass has an inter-sheet of some Poly-Vinyl Butyral which provides a "Dampening" benefit.   So, in my mind, which has no real knowledge on the area... I think of  it as a "do I want two 1/2" drywall sheets with Green Glue or 2, 5/8" sheets of Drywall with no Green Glue"?   The second had greater mass (as would a 1 3/4" sold wood door vs glass), but the one with Green Glue/ Laminated Glass has a Dampening effect.    My other belief is that different substances are better at different frequencies, so, by altering substances, I might cover more frequencies.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Plan now. Figure out how you want to apply acoustic treatments. That will affect the "look" and style of the room significantly, and planning for electrical outlets, lighting fixtures, door placement, etc. can all affect that plan. You don't have to finalize the exact treatments (and you shouldn't) beforehand, but you should have a direction in mind. And yes, you will want them immediately.

Jeff

 

Good Guidance... the 'look' is a major question for me... I like some of the almost 'all fabric panel' type theater designs (Hanna Hou, Bacon Race, Spaceman theater), but my wife would love some of the woodwork, like yours, the Cinemar/ Rawlinsway theaters.  I think they look nice, but my perception from my DIY skill set, is maybe it is 'easier' to do the Fabric Panels than the more intricate woodwork.    I would likely go the FabricMate 'track' route to avoid needing to do build my own frames (although, certainly TBD).

 

I appreciate your time to respond & your help/guidance!!


jautor 03-31-2014 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

When you reference combining into a single 4-gang box, can that be the same 4 gang box as I would have to have four separate switches?   Meaning, incoming power into a 4 gang box, split to 4 switches, and power out to the lights? 

Correct. One large, 4-gang box that would normally hold four dimmers/switches. Because the GrafikEye unit is large, you'll want the deepest box you can get so you've got enough room to work with all those wires. Since my location backs to an attic space, I actually pig-tailed several connections in another junction box in the attic and brought the minimum needed into the "real" box... It's a lot of romex to work with, especially if you don't man-handle that stuff on a daily basis.
Quote:
I will likely have maybe more than 4, but trying to understand if they are on int he same or separate boxes.

There are different GrafikEye units. I have the six circuit (i.e. load/dimmer) QS model.
Quote:
Is your 136", 136" wide or Diagonal?   I assume wide based on your post about fitting an 11 1/2" wide screen into your area, but wanted to double check.

No, 136" diagonal measured at 1:2.35. In 16x9 it's a 108" screen. Full width is 124".
Quote:
Good Guidance... the 'look' is a major question for me... I like some of the almost 'all fabric panel' type theater designs (Hanna Hou, Bacon Race, Spaceman theater), but my wife would love some of the woodwork, like yours, the Cinemar/ Rawlinsway theaters.  I think they look nice, but my perception from my DIY skill set, is maybe it is 'easier' to do the Fabric Panels than the more intricate woodwork.    I would likely go the FabricMate 'track' route to avoid needing to do build my own frames (although, certainly TBD).

I originally planned on a FabricMate / track setup and full fabric panels, too. But I changed my mind as I went through the process... DIY-wise I was very concerned with getting the fabric track system to work and not look like crap when I got done, and the stuff isn't cheap, either. Now, since then Spaceman and others have well-documented how to do these, so starting over I'd certainly consider it again. But I went the panel route and ordered them instead of making them. That was more money than a DIY solution, certainly - but I had them up in an afternoon - so there's that, too! biggrin.gif


Jeff

Tedd 03-31-2014 04:08 PM

Do an AVS search on Dennis Erskine two box Grafic eye method. The Grafic Eye with six zones will exceed electrical code
infill rules, and the lighting controller itself will fill most of a 4 gang box. I would also recommend a plastic four gang
electrical box be used to avoid a short circuit and fried controller.

The other method is to use a single six gang box with a four gang mud plate.

kmhvball 04-01-2014 05:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Do an AVS search on Dennis Erskine two box Grafic eye method. The Grafic Eye with six zones will exceed electrical code
infill rules, and the lighting controller itself will fill most of a 4 gang box. I would also recommend a plastic four gang
electrical box be used to avoid a short circuit and fried controller.

The other method is to use a single six gang box with a four gang mud plate.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction... I looked at the Grafic eye web-site, should have figured I would be better off looking here!!


kmhvball 04-01-2014 05:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
I originally planned on a FabricMate / track setup and full fabric panels, too. But I changed my mind as I went through the process... DIY-wise I was very concerned with getting the fabric track system to work and not look like crap when I got done, and the stuff isn't cheap, either. Now, since then Spaceman and others have well-documented how to do these, so starting over I'd certainly consider it again. But I went the panel route and ordered them instead of making them. That was more money than a DIY solution, certainly - but I had them up in an afternoon - so there's that, too! biggrin.gif


Jeff

 

Where did you purchase the panels?  I have seen several places on-line, but haven't spent enough time finding the 'best' place.   The final piece of your post "but I had them up in an afternoon..." could be priceless as my wife already isn't a fan of the time involved in this process!!  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Correct. One large, 4-gang box that would normally hold four dimmers/switches. Because the GrafikEye unit is large, you'll want the deepest box you can get so you've got enough room to work with all those wires. Since my location backs to an attic space, I actually pig-tailed several connections in another junction box in the attic and brought the minimum needed into the "real" box... It's a lot of romex to work with, especially if you don't man-handle that stuff on a daily basis.
There are different GrafikEye units. I have the six circuit (i.e. load/dimmer) QS model.
Jeff

 

You referenced doing 'more' than 6 circuits & in your 'what would you do differently' you reference moving one off the GrafikEye for the lights outside the theater room.   As I think about my tentative plans for lighting I am thinking:

1) wall sconces

2) screen can lights

3) row 1 can lights

4) row 2 can lights

5) bar row lights

6) tbd if I do a soffit, but Rope lights if I do..

7) riser lights?  

 

Are the lights outside your theater, in that 'entry hall-way' from the rest of the house into your theater?   I don't think I'll really have type of entrance/ airlock so, wasn't initially thinking of integrating 'outside' the room lighting, but it could make a bit of a statement.  Although, I do love the TV Information Screen on the Cinemar theater, so, maybe lighting and a TV Info screen could be an interesting combination.


jautor 04-01-2014 09:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

Where did you purchase the panels?  I have seen several places on-line, but haven't spent enough time finding the 'best' place.   The final piece of your post "but I had them up in an afternoon..." could be priceless as my wife already isn't a fan of the time involved in this process!!  

I got mine from Acoustical Solutions, as I had talked to them at CEDIA and one of the suede colors they offered was what I was looking for. There are a couple other companies that show up in AVS threads more often (can't recall off the top of my head), and you should definitely compare products and pricing...
Quote:
You referenced doing 'more' than 6 circuits & in your 'what would you do differently' you reference moving one off the GrafikEye for the lights outside the theater room.   As I think about my tentative plans for lighting I am thinking:
1) wall sconces
2) screen can lights
3) row 1 can lights
4) row 2 can lights
5) bar row lights
6) tbd if I do a soffit, but Rope lights if I do..
7) riser lights?  

Are the lights outside your theater, in that 'entry hall-way' from the rest of the house into your theater?  

What I meant was to move the switch / dimmer out of the room since everything was remote controlled anyway - but the lighting is all in the room. Since then I have installed RadioRA2 throughout the house, so there's a whole scene set up for the game room and hallway adjacent to the theater.

Your circuit list is similar to mine and looks good. It's that 7th circuit (step lights) that I've currently got combined with one of the others, and am thinking about moving off the GE onto its own RadioRA dimmer.


Jeff

Spaceman 04-01-2014 10:19 AM

2 Attachment(s)
We used Kinetics Noise Control for finished panels in 7channelfreak's build. Lots of fabric options.

kmhvball 04-01-2014 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

We used Kinetics Noise Control for finished panels in 7channelfreak's build. Lots of fabric options.


Hi Spaceman,

 

Thanks for your thoughts... it looks like in your Theater build (which I love, by the way!) you made your own frames (and the whole speaker grill ball joints!), and it sounds like 7channelfreak purchased panels.    Knowing the effort involved in making the panel frames (excluding the ball joints), do you think you would go that route again?  Have you had any experience with the 'in between' option, i.e.., fabric tracks but still installing the fabric?

 

Thanks,

Kevin


Spaceman 04-01-2014 02:34 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post


Hi Spaceman,

Thanks for your thoughts... it looks like in your Theater build (which I love, by the way!) you made your own frames (and the whole speaker grill ball joints!), and it sounds like 7channelfreak purchased panels.    Knowing the effort involved in making the panel frames (excluding the ball joints), do you think you would go that route again?  Have you had any experience with the 'in between' option, i.e.., fabric tracks but still installing the fabric?

Thanks,


Kevin

I have not had an opportunity to work with fabric tracks. I looked into it for my build, but it was going to be too expensive. I think a lot of it depends on your budget, diy skills and the look you are after. My floor-to-ceiling panel arrangement is quite different than 7channelfreak's. His design only called for 9 panels (excluding the ones for the screen wall). I needed 100. If I was doing it again, my total panel count would be closer to 9 than 100. smile.gif

His purchased panels are 2" thick, while mine are only 1". If I was doing it again and had more room, I'd go with 2" thick panels.

7channelfreak's purchased panels are really nice, with hardened edges and quality fabric work. Some are absorption panels and some are diffusers. If you can find room for custom fabricated panels in your budget, it's definitely the way to go. I'm too cheap though, so if I was doing my own room again, I'd find a way to DIY them, similar to the Rawlinsway build.

kmhvball 04-01-2014 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

... If I was doing it again, my total panel count would be closer to 9 than 100. smile.gif
 

 

Is the closer 9 vs 100 an 'effort' based decision or some other driver (i.e., acoustics, maintenance, etc.)?


Spaceman 04-01-2014 09:52 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

Is the closer 9 vs 100 an 'effort' based decision or some other driver (i.e., acoustics, maintenance, etc.)?

Strictly effort. The only reason I wound up with so many panels was to pull off the look I wanted (curse you, GPowers and Brad Horstkotte) . Now that I'm older and wiser, I would choose fewer panels but make them larger.

kmhvball 04-03-2014 10:25 AM

Has anyone purchased & used a Senco Dura-Spin Screw Gun to hang sound clips, drywall/ osb?   I am looking at the DS312-18V battery powered gun.   I figure between the sound clips, osb/drywall, backer board, backer boxes, maybe using screws on stage & risers, I have A LOT of screws I'll be using in the near future, and just wondered if anyone had experience with this?


KNKKNK 04-03-2014 10:31 AM

I think youll have trouble lining up the gun to put in the clips..
I tried my senco with the OSB to the channel.. My experience was that it stripped the screw in the channel, greatly decreasing the pullout force.
I ended up doing it the old fashion way..

KNKKNK 04-03-2014 10:42 AM

I just checked there is not enough clearance between the head on the senco (i have the DS2000) and the springs on the IB3's for the gun to hit the hole in the clips..

Also .. i think the basic problem with the senco was it was just too fast.. when screwing into the channel i found that if I slowed the speed down as the screw started drawing up tight It would sinch up better even sinking the head into the OSB.. vs Just going faster and the screw would strip out of the Channel.

kmhvball 04-03-2014 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

I just checked there is not enough clearance between the head on the senco (i have the DS2000) and the springs on the IB3's for the gun to hit the hole in the clips..

Also .. i think the basic problem with the senco was it was just too fast.. when screwing into the channel i found that if I slowed the speed down as the screw started drawing up tight It would sinch up better even sinking the head into the OSB.. vs Just going faster and the screw would strip out of the Channel.


Thanks for the guidance.   I'll definitely be re-assessing given the substantially more limited potential than I was hoping for!   I have already started looking a bit more and found a

QuikDrive PROPP150G2M25K which talks about 'precision point' and being used in metal framing, but haven't done much more yet... need to get back to the job now that lunch is gone!

 

I haven't read much of your thread, but did read the opening post and that is kind of what happened to me... I have started my basement, then found this forum, and feel a bit paralyzed with the amount of things to consider!   I subscribed to it, so, I can add it to my growing list of threads/ builds I need to read through!   I might proceed with the balance of the basement and keep the 'best for last'... but, that approach is a bit hard to swallow!


kmhvball 04-15-2014 06:55 PM

Electric Box mounting to minimize sound...

 

I am attaching a link to a post I made in the Sound Proofing master thread in case it helps me reach a different audience, as it isn't strictly soundproofing.https://www.avsforum.com/t/1509173/soundproofing-master-thread/330#post_24611352

 

I haven't tried linking before, so, not sure if this will work either!


kmhvball 05-08-2014 10:44 PM

Below are images of how I am thinking of using the 'new'ish" Halo Surface mount lights to minimize sound transmission.  These are recessed lights that fit in a traditional look, they are 3,000 K color temperature, and have a CRI (Color Rendering Index) of 90 (or an option of 80).  These are either 4" or 6".

 

This first photo, is the 3 layers of MDF (or could be OSB/ cement board, not sure which is best), which will be behind the two layers of 5/8" drywall (i.e., between room envelope & ceiling above).  The two 'rear'/top layers have only a small hole in them for the electric wire penetration.   The 3rd board is 3/4" in my case because the electric box I have is 2" deep. 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

This next picture is a profile view of these three pieces pressed together, with Green Glue (some of my 6, 5 gallon buckets from the soundproofingcompany.com). 

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

This next picture shows them 'attached' to the drywall, I am imagining screwing them through the drywall before putting the drywall up, and as the drywall is being lifted into place, running the wire down through the small holes. 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Here are pictures of the box I plan to use, and a few pictures of the light itself:LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

These next two pictures are 'theoretically' the electric box installed in 2 layers of 5/8" drywall (of course, with GG).   I say 'theoretically', because, all I have on hand is a small 1/2" drywall piece, so, I used a 3/4" MDF piece... the combined width of these being 10/8ths = 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.  So, bear with the lack of correct materials, but the measurements are the same.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

 

 

This next picture shows what the light would look like as it were being wired & ready to be installed, this shows how 'shallow' the light is. 

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

 

 

The final picture is the light after installation, when mounted flush with the ceiling.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

 

This whole sequence obviously is more labor & material intensive than simply using Putty Pads.   Of course, the 'labor' isn't horrible, I cut my boards very roughly/quickly 8" x 8", unlike a backer box which needs to be somewhat 'square', these are pancaked together so precision isn't a huge deal.  A hole saw then used to cut out the hole to mount the box in.

 

I would also use acoustic caulk in the holes & around the box to provide that extra bit of sound sealing. 

 

Do you think this would be much better than Putty Pads, or yield a very similar result?  Obviously, not going to waste my time if there isn't much benefit.

 

Also, the 4" and 6" lights are the same mounting options.   I have seen many, many, of the theaters using 4", I have always wondered if that was simply a better aesthetic look choice, or if it was to 'minimize' the size of the penetration in the ceiling.    I am somewhat leaning towards 3, 4" lights at my screen, and then using 6" lights (ever so slightly brighter capability) over the seating areas.   These of course will all be dimmable/zoned (likely Grafik Eye QS).


kmhvball 05-08-2014 11:11 PM

Here are a few photos as the room is starting to get framed in...

 

This is looking towards the front of the theater where the screen will be.   The 2x4 board under the chair is 12' long, giving me some idea of 'width' of chairs that could fit in.   I am begrudgingly leaving the support pole, that will likely be around the steps, and will put some sort of woodwork around it.     To the right is where the AV closet will be.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Here is a picture of the room which will hold the AV equipment.   It is currently ~ 4' wide x 13', but I am likely going to be using some of that space for a dead vent, so it will be smaller in the end.   The door itself isn't 'framed' as this will be on the riser, so, i need to figure how the height of my riser with OSB to determine the 'base' of the door height.  It will be a bit tight, I am thinking a 2x10" with 2, 3/4" OSB layers... getting to ~ 11 1/2".  A 6'8" door gets me to nearly 7' 8", and given this is where a soffit would be, the soffit would be at 8', so, not tons of room.   Once in the closet though, the ceiling height will be almost 9'.   

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

This next picture is looking at the rear of the theater, where the entry door is.   These are two, 2x4 walls running in parallel with each other - attached to the floor joists with IB-3 clips.  The window will be outside the theater room, and my plans is that the 'step' onto the riser will be outside the theater room as well, so, again - the door framing itself hasn't been done until I finalize riser height plans.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

 

Now, to start getting the cart a bit before the horse, I have ordered Fabric Samples, these are Knoll Textiles, Photon II colors... their web-site says they are acoustically transparent and fire rated... I have never done a 'blow test' through fabric before, so, not sure what to expect.   I can definitely feel air flow through the fabric, but frankly, I feel like I have to blow fairly hard to feel it.   I am having some different samples delivered as well.     My 'rationale' for trying to figure this out, is that it could influence where I do my columns.   This fabric is in 66" widths, so, doing 5' wide panels would be a nice width and I will have columns between panels.   However, another sample I am getting is something like 54" width, so, that would influence the lay-out some.

 

Of course, I was also hoping to get my wife at least partly engaged, but not luck with that yet.   

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

I am going to be trying to figure out my wiring plans shortly and hopefully get that started.   

 

In terms of sequencing, I am going to pull out my rigid air supply ducts to the 1st floor above this theater, then have the 2 layers of 5/8" drywall w/ green glue on both top sides, attached to the subfloor.   I'll put in some flex duct, and plan to make some 'registers' out of OSB for the 1st floor, hoping to help reduce sound transmission.   These ducts are almost 40 feet from the main line, so, I am just planning to put 25' of flex duct in and leave the rest of the rigid duct.  I think I then plan to have the insulation people come in, and THEN install the clips/ hat channel.   I thought maybe doing that first, but then thought I saw somewhere (of course couldn't find again) that  it is best to minimize the insulation laying directly on the channel.     So, I figured if the insulators did their work before the channel was installed, they would have to use their own methods to keep it in the ceiling, and then the hat channel wouldn't be rested on.  

 

I am working on getting  a few "Mr. Slim" quotes for a air conditioner/ heat pump for this room.   My dead vent will likely be to provide fresh air, and I may still link into the return vent which is easily accessible in the theater.   This is also fairly far from the main trunk line.

 

Amazing how slow it is... and being only a portion of the full basement we are finishing certainly doesn't help.   I won't be doing much of the same sound proofing other area's (although, will do similar in the bedroom directly below our master br), but do plan to use Clips & channels everywhere now.


kmhvball 05-13-2014 12:24 PM

Communicating doors opening same direction? Does anyone have thoughts or experience using two different width doors to open the same direction on a double stud wall?

So if I want my doors to open towards the outside of my theater room, use a 36" door as the first door, and then a 32" door, swinging into that same opening? I am trying to save the 36" floor space for a door opening into the theater. My guess is I should skip this idea, but thought I would see if anyone had thoughts on it. This would certainly limit how wide the door could open...

I want a back bar, and my guess is, if I have enough people over to need that, then the sound reduction need will be less at that time, so, might just be better off leaving both doors open and then not worry about hitting the person at the bar table...

BIGmouthinDC 05-13-2014 02:01 PM

you would also need it shorter. My concern is the latch mechanism. I guess the outer door should be a ball catch or magnetic affair that could be forced open by applying pressure to the inner door. Otherwise if there was any mechanical failrure of the link mechanism you would be trapped.

But if the door is closed, how do you open it from the outside? Perhaps both doors need to be ball and catch affairs. Then the question is how good are the seals?

kmhvball 05-13-2014 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

you would also need it shorter. My concern is the latch mechanism. I guess the outer door should be a ball catch or magnetic affair that could be forced open by applying pressure to the inner door. Otherwise if there was any mechanical failrure of the link mechanism you would be trapped.

But if the door is closed, how do you open it from the outside? Perhaps both doors need to be ball and catch affairs. Then the question is how good are the seals?


Hmmm... I hadn't though about either the latching or the 'height'... I think I'll just go with opposite direction swings!   Thanks for the voice of experience!


kmhvball 06-06-2014 09:25 AM

Grafik Eye Zone Wiring Flexibility Question...

 

I am in the process of planning my rough in wiring for grafik eye and my initial thought is I want my two rear Sconce lights & Rear Recessed lights over the bar on the same Zone.

 

I will also have 4 Sconce lights on the side walls towards the back of my theater room which will be on a separate zone.  I am thinking, maybe I might change my mind to want those two rear Sconces with the other g'back of theater' sconces.

 

I am assuming as long as I wire the Rear Sconces & the Rear Recessed lights independently back to the Gang Box, that, I could later ‘switch’ the connection of those two rear sconces to the ‘other 4’ back of theater side wall sconces.   


Here is a simply diagram of what I am thinking the circle's are my recessed lights and the cylinders are my sconces, the 'red' box is a wire nut of sorts, so, however the 'incoming' lights are hooked up to the G.E. unit, I would combine these two 'circuits' first into a single circuit, and then connect to the G.E.    If Later, I decided to 'switch' the two rear sconces to join with the 4 rear of theater sconces, I would simply re-wire where the wire nut is.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

Would this type of set up work with Grafik Eye?  or once I do my wiring, is it largely fixed (and thus, might as well run the wire the most efficient way and link all directly together vs two separate runs back to the box).  


jautor 06-06-2014 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhvball View Post

I am assuming as long as I wire the Rear Sconces & the Rear Recessed lights independently back to the Gang Box, that, I could later ‘switch’ the connection of those two rear sconces to the ‘other 4’ back of theater side wall sconces.   

Yes, that is what I did and what I'd recommend. Home run wires from each 'type' of lighting to the GrafikEye box so that you have some flexibility to combine / separate loads into the available zones. For me this was easy as my wiring converges in an attic space behind the GE location. So don't go crazy as there's already a lot of romex coming into that box - but do enough to allow for some flexibility.
Quote:
Here is a simply diagram of what I am thinking the circle's are my recessed lights and the cylinders are my sconces, the 'red' box is a wire nut of sorts, so, however the 'incoming' lights are hooked up to the G.E. unit, I would combine these two 'circuits' first into a single circuit, and then connect to the G.E.    If Later, I decided to 'switch' the two rear sconces to join with the 4 rear of theater sconces, I would simply re-wire where the wire nut is.

Would this type of set up work with Grafik Eye? 

Yes, that will work fine.

Jeff

Sands_at_Pier147 06-06-2014 10:08 AM

Yes, that will not be a problem.


kmhvball 06-06-2014 10:18 AM

Thanks for the confirmation guys!   The Grafik Eye thread is HUGE, so, I was hoping I could get a response!


kmhvball 06-09-2014 08:38 AM

Rendered Images of Planned Theater... Here are a few images of what my tentative plan is for my Theater.   I am not doing these images, someone else volunteered to do so, so, this is the extent of what I have and not sure if I'll get more.

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

 

The 'columns' are only 12" wide and the lights are 4" wide and the columns are essentially 'flush' with the 1" fabric treatment/panels.  I am wondering if I should go a bit wider on the columns, say 16 - 18".   My plan is using 'in wall' speakers, which would be hidden behind the fabric on the walls.  My other consideration is using 'in wall' speakers, but built into the Columns (thus contained inside the room) which would also allow for better placement.   The downside is this would would make the columns jut out ~ 3" each and cut down on Aisle width.   My estimate as of now is that from the wall/column to the edge of the chairs on each side is ~ 33" in the rear (slightly more in the front).  The 'lights' stick out 5", so, that cuts it down to 28" if you include those.    Insetting the columns makes for 25" clearance from the lights, but to the degree the columns aren't right beside the furniture, this might not be a factor.


WarrenBerry 06-09-2014 10:00 AM

The coke can and bottle of jack d should be switched...

kmhvball 06-10-2014 12:25 PM

Updated original Post & 'current' rough image of my floor plan.  

 

- I have revised my original post for changes I have made since posting originally

 

-  Here is an updated 'floor plan' as I am currently thinking of it.

 

 

The 3D plan/ Image Rendering has led me to shift around the column location a bit, and likely will not build speakers into the columns (as opposed to walls).   To fit my AVS door in where I want it, and have the width of columns for the speakers I want, this is what I have come up with.    The space in front of the very first columns from the Screen will be all black to help with reflections.   

 

The rest of the walls, are a little TBD.  The 'Top & bottom" will likely look like the rendering, but not sure if we'll stick with Black & Gray, or go another combination (such as the popular Black & Red scheme).  I have a few samples of 'Patterned' Fabric that I like as well, but debating if any patterns are to subject to being 'dated'.

 

I think I'll likely use Fabric Mate tracks, so, some future flexibility with those if needed.

 

If anything catches your eye as 'wrong'/ sub-optimal, etc. let me know.  I am hoping to start my wiring in the next week or so.   The framing is largely done, I think I just need to move my AVS door a little (and complete the door entrances, I haven't framed the bottoms yet given I don't want a trip hazard).


kmhvball 06-12-2014 01:52 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Color Selection Opinions...

I am planning to do Fabric Panels on my walls of a 'solid' color'. I am currently considering three options as below. Anyone think one is much better or worse than the others, or, simple user preference?

Black & Red:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602172

Black & Gray
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

All Black:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

kmhvball 06-13-2014 09:50 AM

Well, I last night I made my 12 'backer boxes', which maybe I would call more of a 'Backer Sandwich", it took about an hour in total.

I ended up with this configuration:
3/4" MDF Solid with Green Glue
5/8" Drywall Solid w Green Glue
3/8" Drywall w/ Hole w Green Glue
3/8" Dyrwall w/ Hole

I used this based on the concern expressed about Fire hazard, figuring the fire-rated drywall would be the way to go - and frankly, much easier to 'cut' that as well, so, doing it again - I probably would do two layers of the 5/8" solid Drywall.

Then with the two ceiling layers of 5/8" drywall, the box depth will match my ceiling depth with my 'backer' boxes.

Here are the parts in there individual piece forms...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402673990

Here are the parts with Green Glue applied... "Learning", I applied the GG to the 'fronts', defined as the part on the Theater side vs the 'ceiling/subfloor' side of the MDF, 5/8" Drywall, and the 3/8" Drywall... This meant when I did the 5/8" drywall 'all over', the 3/8" light box 'hole' had GG all over. So, to do it again, I would put the GG on the 'theater side' of the two 3/8" drywall layers, and the theater side of the 5/8" drywall layer..

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402673990

Here is what the 'final' product looks like. These will be installed onto the subfloor side of the drywall in the correct locations before the Drywall is lifted into place. The circle at the top is the Surface Mount LED light.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402673990

We'll see how this all works out.

KNKKNK 06-13-2014 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 24911945)
Color Selection Opinions...

I am planning to do Fabric Panels on my walls of a 'solid' color'. I am currently considering three options as below. Anyone think one is much better or worse than the others, or, simple user preference?

The renderings are cool....

Im in the same boat trying to decide on a color palette so Ill play!
In order of my personnel prefrence:
Red on Black
Black on Black
Grey on black

Mfusick 07-16-2014 09:15 AM

<- In. Surprised I've never read your thread before.

kmhvball 07-16-2014 12:30 PM

I had a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim installed a few weeks back and it seems to be working fine. I got the unit that has cooling & heating capability. They had me prep the area for placement, i.e., put up my 1 layer of OSB & 1 Layer of Drywall, plus another 1" piece to bring the unit out to where the Fabric Panels are.

My current plant for 'air exchanges' is as follows:

- using a Tjerlund In-Line duct fan, hook up a 6" flex duct and take it to the front of the theater room. This unit will be under-neath the stairs from my 1st floor coming into the basement (i.e., outside the theater walls), and pull in 'fresh' air from the main basement area (which is 'open' to the first floor as well, i.e., no door at the bottom or top of the stairs from 1st floor to basement).

- install a Panasonic WhisperCeiling fan (FV-15VQ5) in my theater room, and run a 6" flex duct 'outlet' to an adjacent room (i.e., pull stale air out of theater)

- install a Panasonic WhisperCeiling fan (FV-08VQ5) in my AV Clost, and run a 6" flex duct 'outlet' to an adjacent room (pull stale/hot air out of theater)

My main basement area has a large Return Air duct into the main trunk line, as well as air supply in a few locations.

Other Updates:
- my 2 layers of Drywall & Green Glue have been fixed to the sub-floor above my theater room

- I am hoping to finish my wiring for my basement this weekend, I plan to 'hang' my Backer Box/ Backer Sandwich units via IB3 clips and if I get that far, I'll post a picture

- I have scheduled for Insulation company to come do the install next Thursday... I did a cost comparison between doing it myself & having them do it, and their price was good enough to make me break out my wallet and pay them to do it.

I originally had my two electric boxes 'split' on my screen wall, and paid someone to come move them together. I had a Skype Consult with Big, and as I 'walked him' around the theater... he noticed that I didn't have enough room for the drywall on that wall... So, I had the opportunity to stimulate the economy, and have them moved again... this time, for only $50 vs the $500 last time!

This theater is part of finishing my whole basement, which is about 2,400 square feet - so, it is moving at a snails pace. I have done the framing, and the majority of the electric... I am definitely hiring out Drywall.

I am intrigued now by DIY Sub-woofers, looking at a 24" driver... thinking, maybe mount two on my screen wall, in a 27" high x 24" deep x 8-10' wide box (maybe two separate boxes). Can't decide if I want to go out on that limb though.

Mfusick 07-16-2014 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 25793905)
I am intrigued now by DIY Sub-woofers, looking at a 24" driver... thinking, maybe mount two on my screen wall, in a 27" high x 24" deep x 8-10' wide box (maybe two separate boxes). Can't decide if I want to go out on that limb though.

That's a big ass sub. Plan B might be a Ghallerhorn horn loaded sub (a total monster) or a simple and more cost effective "marty cube" style ported sub.

Those are two alternate designs with a lot of bass performance for the dollars. No commercial sub I know of will hang with those dollar for dollar , or driver for driver.

Info on the Ghorn:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=45

118.3db @ 16hz in an open field, no room gain- on a 100 degree day where amps would shut off from being too hot. Verified and tested. Not too many commercial subs are tested like this, they usually have inflated numbers inside the room so it's not apples to apples. Above 16hz it just get's louder. One is enough for over reference levels.

http://www.data-bass.com/images/syst...20GH%20480.JPG

That's a heck of a DIY sub project.

Something easier is this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post23711347

Swap out the drive for the UXL18 and it pounds senselessly. (4) will crap all over any sub from any MFG you can buy for the same cost. Probably crap all over MFG subs that cost double actually. Easy build. 24" by 48" "handi panels" design you can buy precut at any HD or get the wood cut easily. Designed to make efficient use of sheet of ply or MDF. Much easier DIY project than a Ghorn, almost as much balls. :)

kmhvball 07-17-2014 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mfusick (Post 25805153)
...or a simple and more cost effective "marty cube" style ported sub.

Those are two alternate designs with a lot of bass performance for the dollars. No commercial sub I know of will hang with those dollar for dollar , or driver for driver.

Something easier is this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post23711347

Swap out the driver for the UXL18 and it pounds senselessly. (:)

I like the size of the Martycube, and doing 2 of them... Have you seen anyone do a single enclosure of 8' long with opposed Drivers? I am clueless about that stuff, so, not sure if that helps or hurts, but have seen a few builds with multiple drivers in the same box, so, just a thought.

How about opposed 18" drivers in the same 'traditional' martycube size?

There are tons & tons of builds, hard to go through all of them.

Mfusick 07-17-2014 11:25 AM

I did a dual 15" box ported at 20hz that was 42" tall by 24" deep and wide. Yeah people do that thing all the time, like a double "marty" box. I laugh at the term "marty" because I guess that is the fad name for "ported subwoofers" these days. There is a funny thread in the DIY forum about that. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...mber-when.html

Funny read if you understand the background.

Tell me what you ideally want, I can try to offer up some advice or a build plan. Have you played with WinISD PRO ?

kmhvball 07-17-2014 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mfusick (Post 25819721)
I did a dual 15" box ported at 20hz that was 42" tall by 24" deep and wide. Yeah people do that thing all the time, like a double "marty" box. I laugh at the term "marty" because I guess that is the fad name for "ported subwoofers" these days. There is a funny thread in the DIY forum about that. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...mber-when.html

Funny read if you understand the background.

Tell me what you ideally want, I can try to offer up some advice or a build plan. Have you played with WinISD PRO ?

I just started this thread in the DIY section...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-all-cost.html

I am not real educated on this, but had seen another one of your posts that talked tuning to 20hz or even 22 hz might be 'better' than tuning down to 14 hz... so, really, looking for kind of a best all around sub woofer plan.

Mfusick 07-17-2014 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 25820001)
I just started this thread in the DIY section...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-all-cost.html

I am not real educated on this, but had seen another one of your posts that talked tuning to 20hz or even 22 hz might be 'better' than tuning down to 14 hz... so, really, looking for kind of a best all around sub woofer plan.

Should I reply here or there? Does it matter?

Porting is a trade off. You gain additional output at "port tune" frequency but you then sacrifice output away from it, particularly below the port tune where your response drops more rapidly than sealed. So what you are doing is you are trading SPL output for frequency response, by raising your port tune you can often get a couple more decibels of SPL output and usually this boost can happen in the exciting parts of the bass region (25hz-60hz) where there is a lot of content in both movies and music. If you crave "loud" then the higher port tune is better. If you want to get kicked in the balls, then port a tad higher IMO. In real life the louder subwoofer is the more impressive one, there isn't much material under 20hz anyways.

The other side of the camp is the guys that don't listen too loud. This might be personal preference, or it might be because of disturbing others. In any event if you won't play it as loud as it goes, then sometimes it might make sense to tune a bit lower and grab that extra ULF (ultra low frequency) extension. You can't really hear below 20hz, but you can feel it at enough volume, so going a little lower lends itself to that infrasonic feeling. Other guys just buy Crowson transducers for that, which is probably more effective anyways.

You can port at 10hz and go way stupid low, or you can port at 30hz and go way stupid loud. Most professional PA and concert level subwoofers (think Metallica show) are horn loaded (even louder than ported) and they are tuned at 35hz or 40hz. They don't care about the 20hz stuff or under, they just need it loud in the exciting parts of the bass region. I think the lowest bass note is 31hz, (6 string bass tuned down half step ) so they don't need response at 15hz, they need tons of volume at 40hz. In these cases they sacrifice the extension down low for output.

No right or wrong answer. Some guys like loud. Some guys like low. Most guys want both. To get both you need to tune low, and then use additional and multiple subwoofers to get the "loud" part. You gain additional output every time you add more subs. That's how you get your cake and you get to eat it too.

In your case with $2000 to work with I'd suggest 4 of the UXL18 drivers in larger ported enclosures tuned to 16hz. You'll have plenty of low and plenty of loud. In comparison to the SVS sub you are considering these will slap it around, steal it's lunch money, and downright embarrass it. That would be a lot of bass. I'm not sure you have heard that much bass in a big space or inside a home before. You can always add more subs again in the future too :)

Ideally you want to keep all your ported subs tuned the same, because the phase varies at port tune. That's why you should also stick with either all sealed or all ported, because mixing them can be problematic from a calibration standpoint. So you should tune them all the same, it's usually easier to build the exact same thing a second, third or 4th time anyways. If you make sub boxes, do them all at the same time it won't take much longer to make a few more identical cuts. Much easier than building them one at a time.

grubadub 07-17-2014 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 24911945)
Color Selection Opinions...

I am planning to do Fabric Panels on my walls of a 'solid' color'. I am currently considering three options as below. Anyone think one is much better or worse than the others, or, simple user preference?

Black & Red:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602172

Black & Gray
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

All Black:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1402602238

red panels that turn black at the flip of a switch (when the movie starts ;))

kmhvball 07-25-2014 09:01 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Late Wednesday night and early Thursday, I ran all/ most of the wiring in my Theater and the Insulators came in Thursday and put in all the insulation.

I failed to realize they didn't follow the 'instructions'... the wall between theater & AVS Closet was supposed to be insulated, and they didn't. Anyone think this is a big deal? The far sides of the AVS closet still are insulated.

The left side of this image is the AVS Closet, the 'door' on the right is the Entry door. I still need to frame the bottom of the doors at the Riser Height, but waiting till 'last minute' to avoid the trip hazard!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406299994


Picture Looking towards the front of the room

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406300016

Picture of the Rear of the Room.. .you can see the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim on the right. One of the 'expenses' this Forum has costs me!! (original plan was no HVAC)

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406300016

And lastly the ceiling...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1406300016

My tentative plan is to put the OSB & clips/Channel up over the next 1-2 weekends and start Drywall on Monday, August 11. This is part of the whole basement drywall (~2400 square feet of floor space), so, not sure how fast things will move. I am hiring the Drywall out, so, that should help, but I think there are just a few people who work with the company doing it, so, maybe not as fast as some.

Mfusick 07-25-2014 09:49 AM

Insulation is good, you want it. It's cheap and effective. No reason not to do it if the wall is still open IMO.

Silva741 07-29-2014 05:50 PM

Hi Kevin. I’ve been trying to reach you, but your mailbox may be filtering my address. Can you please check your mails/PM's?

But BTW, the room is looking good. The AC as last minute addition will break the design a bit, but if no other way to do it, so be it. It'll still look very cool, for sure.

kmhvball 08-18-2014 01:49 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Current updates...

The plywood was put up on the walls:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391247

Here is how I am installing my 'recessed' lights with my minimalistic 'backer sandwich'/ backer boxes... I used IB-3 clips to attach them to the Joists, and installed the 'bottom' of the Drywall 1 1/8" down from the joist (so, it will be flush with the drywall).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391249


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391249

Here is a picture of my 4 Gang Masonry box for my Grafik Eye... mounted on the Plywood to minimize wall penetrations. I'll be placing this 'inside' a column.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1408391249

The 1st layer of Drywall is now up on the ceiling, but don't have a picture yet.

J_P_A 08-18-2014 08:17 PM

Are you concerned about the lights not having any space to dissipate heat? I know they're LEDs, and the instructions on those things are pretty vague about what type mountings are acceptable.

kmhvball 08-19-2014 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_P_A (Post 26685961)
Are you concerned about the lights not having any space to dissipate heat? I know they're LEDs, and the instructions on those things are pretty vague about what type mountings are acceptable.

A little, but not too much. I did change my initial plan... I was originally going to use MDF for everything above the ceiling drywall, but opted to go with Fire Rated Drywall for the 'hole cut out' layer(s) and the 1st full layer of backer material. I hope that is Safer, and it was definitely easier to work with!

In general though, since the 'instructions' state the normal junction/light boxes are acceptable, I am not too worried. Hopefully, I won't have a 'Theater V2.0, post Fire Build" any time in the future!

Mfusick 08-19-2014 06:18 AM

Are you doing this build solo ? On your own ?

kmhvball 08-19-2014 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mfusick (Post 26693658)
Are you doing this build solo ? On your own ?

I'll do most things other than the Drywall and Carpet.

I did hire an electrician to 'move' my two main service panel boxes to a better spot. Still not great, but much better than it was. I have done all the wiring and hooking breakers up into the panel.

I also had a buddy come give me a hand with the plywood, although, that didn't turn out to be too bad. I initially thought holding the board up to get it started would be a challenge... but I bought a 2' x 4' x 1/4" piece of plywood to set on the floor. I put the plywood on top to get a 1/4" gap at the bottom... then screwed in a corner, made sure it was level/plumb, and kept moving.

panino 08-28-2014 08:00 PM

Kevin, just took a look through your thread finally. Looks like your theater is coming along! Keep up the good work. I'm like you... I tackle most things myself DIY. Word of warning if you start thinking about doing your own drywall... hanging it isn't too bad. But the taping and mudding is time consuming and pretty messy. I probably would have contracted this part out if I did it again. I hate to pass up a good "experience" though. :p

kmhvball 10-17-2014 11:03 AM

Well, my progress over the past 2 months has been painfully slow, and that is with hiring out the Drywall... The people doing it were horribly slow/ terrible at showing up, and it took FOREVER... granted, they did my whole basement, but it was very painful.

They are now 'done', so, I'll take some pictures this weekend, but frankly - looks a lot like the OSB pictures, now just has drywall.

I am debating the approach on a few things and would be happy to hear any opinions...

AV "Rack"...
My AV equipment will be in its' own room. The room is roughly 10' long by 44" wide. Given this is 'out of site', I thought I could do a 'poor mans' Rack, and use a Closet-Maid/Rubber-Made Wire Shelf type systems. I figure if I had three vertical bars, the top support rail, and then did the close Mesh 20" shelves, I could use that as an "AV Rack". I thought if the 'feet' of the equipment were falling through the cracks, I could just use those little 'coaster' type things for the bottom of furniture feet. I thought maybe this would allow better air flow too...

Any thoughts/ concerns about this approach?

Paint Approach
Another question is the best "Painting" approach for my Columns & Subwoofers... I haven't really used a spray gun type system before, but wondered about getting one to use with my air compressor, and whether that would be more efficient for a 'novice' like me, or whether I would be better off just using a brush and/or roller?

Speaker Grill Painting
Also... related to A/V stuff, but not in my theater room.. I have In Wall speakers in my Great Room, and the Grills are painted white, and my wife wants them to 'match' the walls. Anyone have a good way to do this? I tried very, very, light coats and that was still plugging up the holes (I had one old grill that I experimented on).

Happy to hear anyone's thoughts!

panino 10-30-2014 09:20 PM

Kevin, regarding your painting question... I'd probably use a small roller and brush for things like columns. I'd reserve a sprayer only for use outside since those things aerosolize the paint into such small droplets that they get everywhere. Some paint may dry before it even hits the surface leaving you with a real mess to clean up if indoors.

kmhvball 10-31-2014 05:57 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Here are a few photo's of the room with Drywall up...

A front view... the 'green tape' screen, is a 130" Wide 2.35:1 aspect ratio. I am pretty sure I am going to go a little bigger, but haven't decided exactly what yet. The Max Size I could go, is 140" wide and still maintain ~ 30" from floor to bottom of screen with out hitting the upper right soffit. That would also get me very closet to the electric panels.

All the lumber is for the eventual Riser.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1414756144


Here is a picture looking towards the back... the room on the Left is the AV Closet, and the door on the rear wall/to the right, is the entry door. This is a 'double stud' wall, so, one door will open into theater and the other door will open 'out' into the rest of the basement.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1414756144


And this is the AV Closet... it is ~ 44" wide, and almost 11' long (although, with 3' of door, in theory closer to 8' of wall space)... I am still debating using Wire Shelving as my shelving, but haven't decided for sure yet.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1414756144

I am a bit side-tracked on trying to finish making a Pirate Bed for my son, and then, I'll work on the riser... which, will then allow me to do flooring in the rest of my basement... I am hoping to finish the Pirate Bed this weekend, but my optimism usually exceeds my time & capabilities.

JRock3x8 11-06-2014 11:10 AM

185 Attachment(s)
jealous of your room width.

jroyv 11-12-2014 12:55 PM

I followed an other thread of yours that didn't get any response: "Klipsch KL/KS 7800 vs Definitive Technologies UIW RLS/RSS II In Wall for Home Theater"
Did you decide definitively :p on the Klipsch route? Any particular reason?

I'm planning a new theater with in-walls all around and these are two of my forerunners.

kmhvball 11-12-2014 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jroyv (Post 28988793)
I followed an other thread of yours that didn't get any response: "Klipsch KL/KS 7800 vs Definitive Technologies UIW RLS/RSS II In Wall for Home Theater"
Did you decide definitively :p on the Klipsch route? Any particular reason?

I'm planning a new theater with in-walls all around and these are two of my forerunners.

I ended up going with the Klipsch route... I just literally ordered them 2 days ago, so, don't yet have them.

I was swayed by the "THX Certified", which many will say isn't all that big of a deal . I don't know that it is - but I largely couldn't decide, so, just chose that as the difference for me. But, really, there wasn't a huge reason I chose them.

I definitely wanted a built in enclosure, which both of these have... I think I looked at Atlantic Technologies, and their rear/surround one's didn't.

Not sure when I'll get them, and I am far from an audiophile... so, not sure how good of feedback I can provide. When I get a chance to listen to them, I might be able to say 'they sound great'... but I might have said that for 90% of the speakers out there, so, not sure you'll get a good educated/critical review from me.

jroyv 11-12-2014 03:32 PM

I am pretty far from an audiophile my self... What I want from my HT audio system is clear dialog, good surround positioning and some LFE punch. Subed to follow along... I'll start a new build thread of my own once we get a roof on the new house and I can get inside and concentrate on the fun stuff.

panino 12-05-2014 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 28680209)
And this is the AV Closet... it is ~ 44" wide, and almost 11' long (although, with 3' of door, in theory closer to 8' of wall space)... I am still debating using Wire Shelving as my shelving, but haven't decided for sure yet.

Depending on where you plan on putting your equipment you could also use the adjustable closet type shelving track and then make some nice wood or MDF shelves to put on the mounting brackets. Then you'd be able to readjust the shelf height to accommodate different pieces of equipment. I'm going to use this method for mounting my surrounds within my columns. This way I can adjust the speaker height later if need be.

kmhvball 12-05-2014 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panino (Post 29639890)
Depending on where you plan on putting your equipment you could also use the adjustable closet type shelving track and then make some nice wood or MDF shelves to put on the mounting brackets. Then you'd be able to readjust the shelf height to accommodate different pieces of equipment. I'm going to use this method for mounting my surrounds within my columns. This way I can adjust the speaker height later if need be.

If I do the wire shelves, I would do the 'adjustable' brackets like your speakers. I thought about wood/mdf, but wasn't sure the support brackets would work with those... it seem like the 'horizontal' support brackets are fairly specifically designed for the wire shelves. I think I want ~ 20" deep shelves, so, maybe there are some supports out there for wood/mdf - I haven't looked all that much yet.

Silva741 12-05-2014 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 28680209)

I still think the screen should be slightly smaller and avoid going below the soffit. :)
Just the though of having reflections would drive me crazy. lol

Great to see the room come alive, tho. Looking good.

panino 12-05-2014 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 29640690)
If I do the wire shelves, I would do the 'adjustable' brackets like your speakers. I thought about wood/mdf, but wasn't sure the support brackets would work with those... it seem like the 'horizontal' support brackets are fairly specifically designed for the wire shelves. I think I want ~ 20" deep shelves, so, maybe there are some supports out there for wood/mdf - I haven't looked all that much yet.

You can buy shelf brackets I think up to 18" long. They have predrilled screw holes to anchor to a shelf from the bottom. The brackets will then latch into the wall mount tracks.

kmhvball 12-06-2014 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panino (Post 29650546)
You can buy shelf brackets I think up to 18" long. They have predrilled screw holes to anchor to a shelf from the bottom. The brackets will then latch into the wall mount tracks.

Good info! I just looked around a bit, and found some that are 19". I was a bit worried about using wire shelves, so the option to use wood will be great...thanks!

kmhvball 12-11-2014 11:48 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Well, I have now received a bunch of my AV Equipment... if only I was making progress on the room:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1418323142

I purchased a Denon AVR-4520 and my projector, a JVC DLA-RS-4910 (and Chief mount, ceiling plate down-rod).

I also got my speakers... 5 Klipsch in-wall KL-7800-THX and 4 Klipsh KS-7800-THX speakers.
- the KL line is for the front LCR & 2 Rear Speakers
- the KS's are the surrounds, definitely will do one row of surrounds, and then not sure if I'll do another row of surrounds or if I'll use the other pair for "Width" speakers.

My speakers will be mounted inside my columns, inside the overall room envelope to help minimize sound escaping.

The Denon can process 9 speakers, I haven't done any reading yet on how to set up two sets of side surrounds, so I am hoping it can be done with out another amplifier.

I have the MDF to build two 'full marty' DIY sub's, but haven't even started cutting... or ordered the 18" drivers. I was considering UXL-18s, but haven't been able to get a reply from the company, so may save a little and go with Dayton Ultimax 18s. I am a bit concerned the in-walls won't have much mid-bass, and I think the UXLs are better at the higher bass frequencies, although frankly, my knowledge on all that is somewhat limited.

I have visions of grandeur in terms of making progress in my basement, and hopefully theater, over the Christmas break... although, my guess is my wife will likely squash those plans. I hope to put down ~ 1,200 square feet of engineered hardwood and 120+ square feet of tile in the 'rest' of the basement before I really do much more work in the theater. I might build the Riser, in large part because I need to build the portion of the riser 'outside' the theater before doing the rest of that work.

kmhvball 01-20-2015 06:05 AM

5 Attachment(s)
I finally made a bit more progress, I have my 2 level Riser and Bar framed & plywood on the tops. Still need plywood along the front/edges.

I am cramming 3 rows into my theater room with 2nd row being 5 seats, so, I didn't have room to do a step onto the riser inside the room. My theater room is in my basement, essentially immediately to the right as you come from the 1st floor down into the basement. I decided to 'extend' the bottom step to become a riser outside the theater room.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1421758220


I built my riser, and of course filled with Insulation:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1421758220

Here are a couple of pictures with the decking on, you can see the 'center' elevated portion, which is for my 2nd row of Theater Seats. LEARNING... I didn't 'measure' before hand to make sure an electric box would fit in the height difference between the risers, and in fact it won't. So, if you want a step light in an electric box, make sure you have enough room. I am initially going to try with no step light, but wired an outlet in the front of the bar where I could add some LED strip lighting later if needed.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1421758220

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1421758220

This last picture is looking towards the front of the theater, https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1421758220

Other Progress...
- I have at least cut the Column MDF down to size, meaning my 8, ~ 18" wide column fronts, and my 16 4" deep column 'sides'. I don't have any holes cut in them yet, but at least made a a little progress. I am mounting my side & rear speakers inside the columns. I initially planned Sconces on the columns, which I am still considering, but now am concerned that my walk-paths may be too narrow.

I might go with a different column light plan if I can figure out a way to manage a bunch of LED strips. I am thinking if I inset the column sides say 1-2" on each side, and put shoe mold on the rear edge of the front columns, I could put LED strips behind the lip. I am thinking something like folks do with their Risers, but the edges of the columns. I just want to be able to control them in some fairly efficient fashion.

The other Big Decision... I decided to get in on the UXL 18" Sub Driver 'group buy' (now closed), and committed to purchasing 2 UXL-18s. I already had 4 sheets of 4x8 MDF to build large Ported Enclosures (Full Size Marty Subs), and at least got those sheets cut in 1/2 yesterday, and cut down my port rails as well. My wife then informed me it was time to clean stuff up and get ready for dinner.

In terms of the rest of my basement, I have now installed all the engineered hardwood, and opted to have a guy the tile floor & tub/showers in the two bathrooms. So, now it is down to getting my woodwork (doors, trim), cabinets (wet-bar), and final plumbing installed. Then I can focus more entirely on the theater room.

ChadA 03-01-2015 03:09 PM

How's it going? Sounds like you've got your hands full! I broke my cardinal rule of not unpacking any of the speakers and electronics until I was finished. I was getting a bit burned out with construction and needed a diversion. So I spent a few hours laying out my equipment rack and front speakers. It was good motivation! :-)

How about some pics of your handiwork in the rest of the basement?

kmhvball 03-03-2015 09:18 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Things are going, but of course, much slower than I would have guessed before I started... two kids, lots of activities, two working parents, seems I seldom have time to work, and of course this forum has cursed me with all kinds of things I needed to do other than finish a room as I normally would!

I'll start with a few theater oriented pictures...

This is one of my Palliser Lemans Theater seats - the headrest extends and rotates forward to provide better head support in a reclined position. I have a total of 9 of these, most are still in the boxes you'll see in other pictures. My front row will be a |OVOOVO| configuration. The second row can be either a |OO|O|OO| or a |O|OOO|O| configuration.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426868589
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

These are still in boxes, but I have 5 of these bar stools for the 3rd row of the
theater room. They are adjustable height, and I liked having armrests for comfort.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426868589



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

This picture is coming from my upstairs down into the basement. The first door you see will be installed going into the AVS Closet. The second door is the 'outside' door when entering the theater. It is double 1/4" Laminated Glass, which is supposed to have decent sound reduction. The last door, will be on the 'inside' of the theater - so, I have 'communicating doors', one opens out and one opens in. I will be using Zero International door seals.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426868741

You can't really tell, but the 'floor' these doors sit on are an elevated riser, which carries into the Theater room.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

The basement itself, outside the theater room, is getting much closer to being done. I largely now need mirrors in my bathrooms, and to fill nail holes & paint trim work/ window jambs/ post columns.

I'll start with my excel version of my overall basement layout.... so, I have the Theater room, a "Great Room/TV" type area; a Bedroom - which my daughter has now converted to a 'gymnastics' room.; an exercise room; a wet bar - Game Area" for pool table/trampoline/ basketball hoop, and two bathrooms - one attached to the bedroom, and one general purpose.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

If you are standing at the bottom of the stairs, with theater at your back... this shows the tv area with my palliser chairs in boxes, and further on where you see a column -that gets into Wet Bar-Game area... to the right hand side you see a wall and behind it and to the right is the bedroom.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

This is the same room looking from the other side. You see the theater door, and then on the left, we have a walk out basement so the double doors go outside. My Tenative plan is a 70" Vizio 4K tv to mount in the black box on the wall (a Monoprice, between studs, tv mount) - but I am a bit concerned about the still developing 4k environment, so, might go with something smaller & cheaper for awhile (with a plan to redeploy as a replacement to my 10 year old 50" 720p Plasma, serving as the kids bonus room tv for now).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

This picture shows the wet bar as standing in the game area. We have a 54" x 54" square table we use as a 'bar table', as we prefer it to a standard bar.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

This is the game area from the wet-bar, the door on the far right is the extra full bath room.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425396634

This is the spare bedroom, now turned gymnastics room, with my daughter doing a front hip circle, and the 16 foot balance beam in the back. This room is immediately underneath the master bedroom, so, I reapplied some of my 'sound proofing' learnings in this room. I have green glue & dw on the sub-floor, R-19 insulation, clips & channel, and two layers of 5/8" dw with GG on the ceiling... in this room and the attached bathroom. The rest of the basement, I just the insulation & Clips & channel.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425398557

Here is the Bedroom Bath...the sink & tub/shower tile are essentially the same in the spare bath. The lay-outs are a bit different, but very similar (thus, no pictures of the other one).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425398557

The last pictures are of the exercise room.. fairly large, L shaped room with my 55" tv... a relatively inexpensive JVC model, which is made by some other company who licenses the JVC name (or was it Toshiba??). Behind the elliptical/ bowflex is the AVS closet and then theater room. I have a Panasonic "Whisper Quite" fan in the AV closet room,and have it vented into the exercise room - immediately above the yellow ladder. I just put the grill on this weekend.
\https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425399353



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1425399353

So, I wish I had as much to share on the actual theater front! I have cut most of my columns, but still need to put them together.

Kevin

Some of the photo's disappeared, not sure if that was something I did, or AVS Forum did.. so, I just reinserted a few which were removed, but are more directly theater oriented..

kmhvball 03-20-2015 09:30 AM

9 Attachment(s)
I finally had a bit of time to do some work in the Theater room...

I installed my front LCR speakers, they are Klipsch KL-7800-THX speakers. I used the same process as Spaceman did on this theater, in terms of creating a 2x4 mounting box.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426864084

The slight difference vs Spaceman's approach, was that I put a hinge on my Left & Right Speakers so, in theory I can "toe-in" these speakers. Here is a picture of the hinge side:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426864238

Here is my current set up for the 'other' side... right now, the screw threads hold this in place, not sure if this will work, or I'll do something else, but this works for the time being. I set up a cheap receiver in the AVS closet to play some music while I work. I'll put the grills on for now, but before I put my AT screen up, I'll take them off.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426864238


This is a general idea of what my columns will look like. I'll be putting the molding on all of them, using magnets to make them removable. My side and rear speakers will be mounted inside the columns. The door, is the door into the AV Closet. Not a great picture, by the side pieces of the columns are inset from the edge about 1 1/2", I'll be putting shoe mold on the edge, and then placing LED strip lights in the groove.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426864238

I originally planned to use the Sconces as shown in the Rendered images, but now think the space between my Columns and the edge of the bar is too close, to add about 6" of depth for the sconces. Hence, my decision to go with the LED light strips. This shows the space, it is about 28" I think (I measured last night, but my power of recollection isn't what it once was).

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426864238

I have installed my two doors, i.e., 'communicating' doors I think it is called... The outer door is an exterior door, with 1/4" double laminated glass (i.e., 1/2" thick) and the frame is 1 3/4" thick. This Laminated glass is supposed to be a fairly good sound dampening type door. The inner door is 1 3/4" solid mahogany. I have Zero International door stops for it, the sides & top are mounted, I wasn't sure if I should mount the bottom now, or wait till carpet is installed.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426864238

Here is a picture of rear of the theater, where I'll have bar seats (bar will come out basically just past the 2x4 wall you see). Given I have a 3' wide door, this will be a bit tight, but trying to get in 2 full reclining rows & a bar/bar stools was a tight fit in 22 1/5". Part of using the 'in-wall' speakers, so, my screen is close to the wall.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1426864238

I also put the vertical plywood on the front of the riser and cut around the electric/ speaker boxes for that.

I still have a few more columns to put together, and all the column molding/frames. They'll be made and then fabric stapled on the back, secured with magnets.

Kevin

BllDo 03-20-2015 10:13 AM

Nice progress. Looks like it's coming together.

kmhvball 04-28-2015 06:13 PM

6 Attachment(s)
I continue my sporadic approach to my home theater, although, feel I am getting closer....

I completed my columns, putting shoe mold on the back side of them - I will have LED Light Strips behind the shoe mold. I used a Router for the first time when I was putting a round-over on my Riser Steps, it was extremely easy... So, I decided to put a rounded edge on the columns as well, to make it look a bit more symmetrical with back side/ shoe mold.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430265138

Here is a picture of the Columns installed. I primed behind the columns, and primed/painted the ceiling immediately above the columns. The top outlets are for the LED lights, the bottom outlets are just for the general use - likely seldom ever used. I'll have easy access to an outlet or two in front, and a few outlets in the bar - as well as Riser outlets. You can see the white casing/frames that I'll put around the column fronts, I plan them to be removable, using Velcro. I did a slight mortise (after this picture) on the column face to account for the thickness of the velcro.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430265138

Here is the other side of the room..
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430265138

I also started preparing for making my Fabric Frames... the walls will be totally covered with Fabric Frames. I opted to go for 3/4" Plywood, and am cutting into ~ 2" strips, and will use my Kreg Jig/Pocket Screws to attach them. I used a circular saw, with a Kreg Cutting Guide to cut the same size strips. I later cut some 3/4" pieces of MDF on my table saw, and in retrospect... I should have used that to cut the plywood into strips as well.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430265138

Here is the pile after I was done..
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430265138

I also started building my full size "Marty Subs", i.e,. 2' x 2' x 4' Ported enclosures. I am in the 'First 60', of the current UXL-18 Group Buy. I'll plan on using a iNuke 6000 DSP to power my subs. With the ease of use of the Router, I plan on using the router to do roundovers on the ports & all corners. The White Caulk you see in the back corners (also on bottom corners under the port, and will be on top of the port) - is acoustic caulking. If your eyes are really good (considering my bad picture)- you can see I am using Pocket Screws to attach my pieces together (along with PL Premium)

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430265138

I am hoping to be priming the rest of the walls, painting the ceiling, and painting the columns - hopefully by the end of the weekend. I may start to put together some of my frames as well.

JRock3x8 04-29-2015 10:47 AM

185 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 33850138)

I confess to not paying perfect attention to every step of this build so forgive me if this has been covered - do you have electrical outlets close to the ceiling in each column and if so why?

kmhvball 04-29-2015 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRock3x8 (Post 33865466)
I confess to not paying perfect attention to every step of this build so forgive me if this has been covered - do you have electrical outlets close to the ceiling in each column and if so why?

Yes, there are Outlets in top & bottom of each column. The original plan, was that I would use Sconce's on the front of each of the columns... so, the top "Outlet" was originally intended to be for a Light Junction box. The top outlet's are all wired back to my switch box in pairs of two, so, in theory, I could hook those up to different zones on a Grafik Eye.

As I was actually doing the build, and placed the bar & columns, one of the columns is right at the end of the bar- and as it is, there isn't a huge amount of room, if I mounted 6" deep sconces, I felt it would just be too small.

So... current plan is to use those top Outlets for LED Strip lights. I'll plug the LED controllers into the outlets, run them down one side of the column (behind the shoe mold) - back through the column at the bottom, and then up the other side of the Column.

I haven't tried them out yet, but my LED lights I can put into 4 zones (I have three rows of columns on the side and a pair of columns in the back), and control each zone separately. They are wifi control capable, so I can control them via a smartphone App, and also have a hand held controller.

Now I have 10 Sconce Lights I need to see if Costco will take back, despite being a year old (albeit, never used)!

JRock3x8 04-29-2015 12:05 PM

185 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 33867570)
Now I have 10 Sconce Lights I need to see if Costco will take back, despite being a year old (albeit, never used)!

Lesson taken - buy it only when you're ready to use it :)

kmhvball 04-30-2015 06:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The primary walls & ceiling are now primed, and did a first coat of black on a part of the ceiling to see what it looked like. I asked at Home Depot to search for "Mouse" and "Ears" and "Mouse Ears" to get "mickey mouse ears black", but at that Home Depot they couldn't find it. So, I got out the black cards, and selected what i thought looked darkest - which is called "Carbon Black". It looks really dark, but frankly, never having painted a wall or ceiling dark - I have no reference point to know how dark it is.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430396956

At least there is progress.

kmhvball 05-04-2015 10:02 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Made some more progress...

I ended up hiring someone to come in and paint the ceiling & columns in the room. I want to get this done while my children are still young, so, thought that might help.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430754897

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430754897

II spent a lot of my own time on making Frames for the theater room. I am doing floor to Ceiling Fabric Frames... You can see on the walls where they'll go. I put them up to help with my measurements, they'll be taken down to put the Fabric on.

I am using 3/4" Plywood, joined together with Pocket Screws... then adding a 3/4" x 3/4" piece of Quarter Round on the edges. Had I known how easy using a Router was before I purchased the Quarter Round, I may have done the Greg Powers method of 1/2" Plywood/ 1/2" MDF and routed the MDF... but, this is the path I am doing now.

Here is a picture of the frame from a bit of a distance.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430754897

This is at more of an angle showing the quarter round profile:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430754897

Here is my first cut at wrapping with Fabric. I need to go back and rework the corners, but I just wanted to see what one would look like.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430754897

The bottom portion of my walls will be this Black Fabric. I'll then have Fabric Movie Posters (the taller frames in the pictures above, although, I have since gone back and made the shorter ones the same height), and on the sides and above the movie posters - I have a "Charcoal" (grayish) color.

mrfattbill 05-04-2015 10:17 AM

Always nice to see another local HT enthusiast. Project is coming along well.

Bill

kmhvball 05-04-2015 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfattbill (Post 33974194)
Always nice to see another local HT enthusiast. Project is coming along well.

Bill

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I am up in Mason, pretty close to Kings Island.

I am considering doing a HTPC, and see you may have some knowledge in that area. When I get to that point, I may reach out and get your thoughts.

doublewing11 05-04-2015 06:54 PM

I would really like to know HOW you changed title to your build thread! I've been trying to do the same for the last year and gave up!

BTW, nice progress...............................been watching in the weeds! :)

RedStripe88 05-04-2015 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublewing11 (Post 33986370)
I would really like to know HOW you changed title to your build thread! I've been trying to do the same for the last year and gave up!

BTW, nice progress...............................been watching in the weeds! :)

Completely off topic, but who do I have to bribe to change my thread name?

And yes, great progress and good momentum. Keep it going!!

kmhvball 05-05-2015 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStripe88 (Post 33986538)
Completely off topic, but who do I have to bribe to change my thread name?

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublewing11 (Post 33986370)
I would really like to know HOW you changed title to your build thread! I've been trying to do the same for the last year and gave up!

If you scroll down to the very bottom of the pretty much any of the pages (I believe I did it after selecting 'Home', but shouldn't matter)... there is a Contact Us link.

That pops up a form you can complete. I think I selected Other, then typed in the 'other' box "Change Thread Title".

Then in the message box, I put:
I was wondering if (and if so, How) I can change the title to a Thread I started?

The link to the thread is:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...questions.html

So, the current thread title is:

Hall-o-Cinema Theater Construction/Design Questions

I would like to change this to:

Cinema-Nati Theater Build

Please let me know how I can do this.

Thanks,

Kevin"

Then, within I think a day, two tops, the title had been changed and then I received an e-mail letting me know that it had been changed.

Good Luck!

RedStripe88 05-05-2015 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 33993338)
If you scroll down to the very bottom of the pretty much any of the pages (I believe I did it after selecting 'Home', but shouldn't matter)... there is a Contact Us link.

That pops up a form you can complete. I think I selected Other, then typed in the 'other' box "Change Thread Title".

Then in the message box, I put:
I was wondering if (and if so, How) I can change the title to a Thread I started?

The link to the thread is:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...questions.html

So, the current thread title is:

Hall-o-Cinema Theater Construction/Design Questions

I would like to change this to:

Cinema-Nati Theater Build

Please let me know how I can do this.

Thanks,

Kevin"

Then, within I think a day, two tops, the title had been changed and then I received an e-mail letting me know that it had been changed.

Good Luck!

Thanks! Now I have to settle on a new name. Hmmmm.

doublewing11 05-05-2015 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 33993338)
If you scroll down to the very bottom of the pretty much any of the pages (I believe I did it after selecting 'Home', but shouldn't matter)... there is a Contact Us link.

That pops up a form you can complete. I think I selected Other, then typed in the 'other' box "Change Thread Title".

Then in the message box, I put:
I was wondering if (and if so, How) I can change the title to a Thread I started?

The link to the thread is:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...questions.html

So, the current thread title is:

Hall-o-Cinema Theater Construction/Design Questions

I would like to change this to:

Cinema-Nati Theater Build

Please let me know how I can do this.

Thanks,

Kevin"

Then, within I think a day, two tops, the title had been changed and then I received an e-mail letting me know that it had been changed.

Good Luck!


Thanks, I'll give it a try!

doublewing11 05-05-2015 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhvball (Post 33993338)
If you scroll down to the very bottom of the pretty much any of the pages (I believe I did it after selecting 'Home', but shouldn't matter)... there is a Contact Us link.

That pops up a form you can complete. I think I selected Other, then typed in the 'other' box "Change Thread Title".

Then in the message box, I put:
I was wondering if (and if so, How) I can change the title to a Thread I started?

The link to the thread is:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...questions.html

So, the current thread title is:

Hall-o-Cinema Theater Construction/Design Questions

I would like to change this to:

Cinema-Nati Theater Build

Please let me know how I can do this.

Thanks,

Kevin"

Then, within I think a day, two tops, the title had been changed and then I received an e-mail letting me know that it had been changed.

Good Luck!

Thanks again...........took less than 90 minutes.

What took me almost a year.......with your help, less than two hours! :cool:

mileofsmiles 05-06-2015 07:13 AM

25 Attachment(s)
I have been following your build and you are making great progress. Based on your renderings and the progress you have made so far looks like it will be awesome! Keep the updates coming.

kmhvball 05-06-2015 09:51 AM

1 Attachment(s)
A tiny bit more progress... all the 1st stage of frames are now complete, other than the bottom row. I am going to install those post carpet, so, waiting to get final measurements.

By '1st stage', I simply mean the 3/4" Plywood frames have been all cut to size & put together. I haven't put much of the shoe mold on yet. I am now torn about whether I should use my miter saw/chop saw in the theater room, I am a bit concerned the dust created will get all over the ceiling.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1430927435

mrfattbill 05-07-2015 02:36 PM

I would do all possible cutting outside of the theater.

Bill

kmhvball 05-07-2015 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfattbill (Post 34057930)
I would do all possible cutting outside of the theater.

Bill

Yeah, I cut all the wood on my patio, now that my ceiling is painted, I don't want the dust all over.

Wondering if I could cut in my avs closet and be okay?

mrfattbill 05-07-2015 03:52 PM

Maybe put up a sheet of plastic between the two spaces to minimize the dust.

Bill

kmhvball 05-12-2015 08:48 PM

I took my sconce lights which now won't fit in my plans, and that I bought in March 2014, back to Costco today.. I had my receipt, so, they gave me a full refund! Talk about great customer service!

doublewing11 05-12-2015 11:31 PM

Don't envy anyone building fabric frames........looks like a lot it work!:eek:

BTW, gotta love Costco......;)

kmhvball 05-14-2015 12:29 PM

3 Attachment(s)
My Granite Bar was installed yesterday, final dimensions are 153" wide x 18" Deep. It is a Steel Gray/ Silver Pearl color... so, Gray and Black. The top part of my walls will be a Charcoal Gray color, and the bottom part will be black.

In the upper left hand part of the picture, you can see the insulation for my walls & screen wall. You can see my frames, now temporarily installed on the wall as a 'dry fit'... which was good, 3 of them were made to the wrong size.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1431627718

I have also installed an Insteon Dimmer, and all my Ceiling LED Lights. These are the HALO SLD4 lights, so, they fit in a normal circular junction box (or square for that matter).

The first picture is of the lights with the 'full bright' selection.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1431627718
This second photo is of 'As Dim as it gets', with the Insteon dimmer. If I used a Cooper Electric/Eaton Electric Dimmer (maker of the Halo brand of lights), these in theory can get to 6%.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1431627718

I don't know what % dim these currently get to, but certainly doesn't seem very dim to me. I'll have LED Strip Lights on the columns, so, that may help some.

I purchased a Lutron Maestro dimmer yesterday, and want to get a Lutron Caseta dimmer to see if either of those dim more. The problem with the Cooper/Eaton switches, is I don't think you can program the four different switches to various Scenes. I know I can do that with the Insteon, and think I can with Caseta, not sure about the Maestro either.

kmhvball 05-15-2015 09:51 AM

3 Attachment(s)
I started putting up some of the Sound Absorption Insulation last night. I am using Knauf Ecose Sonic XP... I couldn't find Linacoustic around, and my understanding (Hope) is this will work effectively the same.

On the side-walls, I am putting it at about the ear height of the 2nd row. I am waiting to do the frames and insulation for the bottom of the wall until carpet is in.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1431704756

The first 3+ feet of side-walls, and the entire rear wall will be treated floor to ceiling.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1431704756

These are the screws I used to attach it to the wall. Well for the first layer, I am using a shorter version of this, but you get the idea.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1431704756


I am planning on some poly-batten type material above this level. I am choosing to attach this directly to the wall vs friction fit in my frames for two reasons:
1) I thought it might be faster... less precision needed
2) I am planning to hang my frames with Velcro, so, though less weight could only help

I also switched out my Insteon switches for a Lutron Caseta and a Lutron Maestro, neither of which dimmed any more than the Insteon did. I had considered a Grafik Eye, but given the Lutron's are not meeting the objective, not sure I want to hassle testing it.

kmhvball 05-18-2015 05:42 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I got the quarter round put on all the frames that are ready (all but bottom row, which I am waiting for carpet to measure & make those). Hoping to maybe start wrapping fabric on the frames this week, but don't have any real good blocks of time to do it - so, will be a slow go. My sons birthday party is this weekend at our house, so, have a few 'house prep' things that will take priority.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1431949225


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