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post #1 of 14 Old 02-13-2015, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Soundproofing

I think I ran across an issue with my framing.

My theater room sits back to back with a bedroom in the basement. I had planned on adding IB-1 clips to that wall from the theater side and install the hat track rails. However, I didn't leave myself any room for the doorway entry to accommodate the wall sticking out another 5-6 inches. Would it help the bedroom if I installed the IB-1 clips and hat trick in the bedroom side of the wall or would that not help with the noise coming from the theater room?

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 14 Old 02-13-2015, 10:58 AM
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It shouldn't be 5-6 inches out. The IB-1 Clip & channel is 1 1/8 out from the stud, combined with 5/8 drywall (x2 if you're going that route). Should be more like 2.375 inches. Unless you're doing something different with your walls, that is (acoustic paneling?)

It really depends on your room setup and what you're attempting to do. If you're isolating the whole theater room with clips on the ceiling and walls, you can't move one wall's clips to the other side (you'd be coupling the framing before it hit the clip, which would be bad depending on where that framing goes). We'd really have to see how your space is planned.

Can you give more info on the layout of your room? Depending on how crazy you are about sound proofing, there are options for the door, but it depends on a lot of factors. Is the door going to swing into the theater room or out? is it standard 2x4 framing? have you already created your door rough-in and ordered the door/jamb? Two layers of drywall with the clips or something else? Does the door's trim need to be flush with acoustic panels or any other post-wall decor? Stuff like that.
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post #3 of 14 Old 02-13-2015, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraius View Post
It shouldn't be 5-6 inches out. The IB-1 Clip & channel is 1 1/8 out from the stud, combined with 5/8 drywall (x2 if you're going that route). Should be more like 2.375 inches. Unless you're doing something different with your walls, that is (acoustic paneling?)

It really depends on your room setup and what you're attempting to do. If you're isolating the whole theater room with clips on the ceiling and walls, you can't move one wall's clips to the other side (you'd be coupling the framing before it hit the clip, which would be bad depending on where that framing goes). We'd really have to see how your space is planned.

Can you give more info on the layout of your room? Depending on how crazy you are about sound proofing, there are options for the door, but it depends on a lot of factors. Is the door going to swing into the theater room or out? is it standard 2x4 framing? have you already created your door rough-in and ordered the door/jamb? Two layers of drywall with the clips or something else? Does the door's trim need to be flush with acoustic panels or any other post-wall decor? Stuff like that.
Great questions.

I went off an assumption or statement made by another user for 5-6 inches, my bad. 2.375 may be doable but that would still cause overhang at my door area. However, that brings us to the door.

The doorway is framed (wood framing 2x4's), but I have not ordered the door jamb. I currently had it planned to be a 32" door, could I make it smaller? What's the recommended door size for a HT?

For the room layout it is 19'6" long x 12'6" wide. No wall decor at the moment and it would be the rear wall which I don't have planned to do anything with in the future either. I had planned on having the door open into the theater, but I suppose I could have it opened out of it, but it would make the entry a little congested I believe since it's really close to my stairwell. The entry and back wall are directly to your left as oyu come down the stairs and the back wall is approximately 40" farther out, which is why my roughed-in door framing is basically right at the edge of that wall, if it makes any sense.
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post #4 of 14 Old 02-13-2015, 01:05 PM
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You can always go smaller on doors, though i imagine you'll run up against local building codes if you go too small. I want to say the interior doors at my house are 30'', but just check to see what your builders put in the other rooms (they should be to code already). Going much smaller than 30'' and you're in the "closet door" range and will have issues getting furniture in and out. Your door is always going to be the weak link so, other then furniture moves, there isn't a lot of benefit to huge doors. If i remember right, your rough-in should be roughly two inches taller/wider then your planned door.

If your hinges can go on the outside (bedroom side) of the door jamb, your life is easier. You can just order a wider jamb/casing (one made for a 2x6 frame or a custom one that's even wider) and install it into the existing rough opening, hinges going into the jack/king studs on the bedroom side. You'll probably have to add some plywood backing to the jamb on the theater side to close up the gap left between the 2x4 and the trim molding. Seal it all up with acoustic caulk.

If your hinges need to (or really want to) go on the theater side, it's harder, but doable. You'd have to redo your rough-in with wider boards (2x6 or wider, depending on how far into your room you want/need to go). I'd probably look at adding the boards to the existing jack studs, cantilever them out into the room a little, and install the drywall up to the edge of that new board. That solution could depend in your door and how heavy you expect it to be (normal door, solid core, solid core + sheets of mass and dampening, etc...). Heavier doors will need longer screws for the hinges, which needs thicker studs and maybe some bracing.

I'm not an expert on that one though, so someone with more carpentry experience can feel free to speak up.
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post #5 of 14 Old 02-13-2015, 01:51 PM
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Worst case do DD+GG or 3 layers of drywall on the theater side.

Clips and channel will definitely help on the bedroom side, but not as effective.

However, sounds like you don't have any clips on the ceiling or remainder of the theater. If so, flanking noise is an issue regardless of what you on on that wall.

Any improvement you make will definitely help, but don't expect it to solve the problem.

Tim
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post #6 of 14 Old 02-14-2015, 10:00 PM
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you could also do some extra framing to insert the clips into the wall a bit.
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post #7 of 14 Old 02-16-2015, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey thanks Kraius and Mr.Tim and ROB_IN_MN. I'm still digesting those suggestions and thinking through what I can do there. Very much appreciated!
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post #8 of 14 Old 02-18-2015, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraius View Post
You can always go smaller on doors, though i imagine you'll run up against local building codes if you go too small. I want to say the interior doors at my house are 30'', but just check to see what your builders put in the other rooms (they should be to code already). Going much smaller than 30'' and you're in the "closet door" range and will have issues getting furniture in and out. Your door is always going to be the weak link so, other then furniture moves, there isn't a lot of benefit to huge doors. If i remember right, your rough-in should be roughly two inches taller/wider then your planned door.

If your hinges can go on the outside (bedroom side) of the door jamb, your life is easier. You can just order a wider jamb/casing (one made for a 2x6 frame or a custom one that's even wider) and install it into the existing rough opening, hinges going into the jack/king studs on the bedroom side. You'll probably have to add some plywood backing to the jamb on the theater side to close up the gap left between the 2x4 and the trim molding. Seal it all up with acoustic caulk.

If your hinges need to (or really want to) go on the theater side, it's harder, but doable. You'd have to redo your rough-in with wider boards (2x6 or wider, depending on how far into your room you want/need to go). I'd probably look at adding the boards to the existing jack studs, cantilever them out into the room a little, and install the drywall up to the edge of that new board. That solution could depend in your door and how heavy you expect it to be (normal door, solid core, solid core + sheets of mass and dampening, etc...). Heavier doors will need longer screws for the hinges, which needs thicker studs and maybe some bracing.

I'm not an expert on that one though, so someone with more carpentry experience can feel free to speak up.
I decided to change the doorway as you previously suggested and moved it to the left a little by cutting out a piece of the treated 2x4 on the ground close to the concrete Nail I put through it to attach it down, which gave me about 5 1/2" to work with. So I put that 5 1/2" piece over to the right side and now I have that 5 1/2" of space on the wall adjacent to the bedroom in which thanks to people's help with the math portion, means I can now attach the IB-1/3 clips with Hat Channel.

I guess the question that remains is which clips do you place on the wall and which one is made for ceilings between the IB-1 and IB-3 clips? According to the website it doesn't seem to matter as they both appear to be referenced for ceiling and wall?

THANKS GUYS!
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post #9 of 14 Old 02-18-2015, 08:47 AM
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I could be wrong (i've never used them) but i think IB-3 clips are for decoupling your wall from the rest of the house (drywall goes straight on the frame, but the frame is decoupled by IB-3 clips from the rest of the house).

IB-1 clips are the traditional clip&channel clips. You'd use those on your ceiling and your walls that you need to decouple from the studs/joists. So basically, if you are decoupling your framing, you use IB-3 clips and no channels on those walls. If you are using walls/ceiling coupled to the rest of the house, you'd decouple with clips and channels. It's all about where you are decoupling from the house as to which clips you use where.
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post #10 of 14 Old 02-18-2015, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraius View Post
I could be wrong (i've never used them) but i think IB-3 clips are for decoupling your wall from the rest of the house (drywall goes straight on the frame, but the frame is decoupled by IB-3 clips from the rest of the house).

IB-1 clips are the traditional clip&channel clips. You'd use those on your ceiling and your walls that you need to decouple from the studs/joists. So basically, if you are decoupling your framing, you use IB-3 clips and no channels on those walls. If you are using walls/ceiling coupled to the rest of the house, you'd decouple with clips and channels. It's all about where you are decoupling from the house as to which clips you use where.
So if I'm doing the standard single stud walls and ceiling, I would go with IB-1 clips? But if I was doing a wall within a wall I would choose IB-3 between them?

I'm going single stud walls everywhere with the standard ceiling of floor joists, so I'm assuming that means IB-1 clips with hat channel all around the room?

Furthermore, I'm assuming that if you want to use green glue, you have to do double drywall?
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post #11 of 14 Old 02-18-2015, 04:57 PM
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Yup, normal framing means using channels and clips on your walls and ceiling. IB-1 (cheaper) or Whisper (more expensive). Whisper isn't worth it as much if you're dampening your drywall as well (green glue). If you were doing wall/room within a room, you'd use more exotic clips like the IB-3.

To use green glue, you do have to use two layers of "something". It doesn't have to be double drywall, though this is the most practical option. Some folks go 1 layer of OSB and 1 layer of drywall, which makes attaching stuff to your walls easy (never have to look for a channel to screw into). You loose a little mass but gain a little practicality. It's owner's preference on that one.
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post #12 of 14 Old 02-19-2015, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kraius View Post
Yup, normal framing means using channels and clips on your walls and ceiling. IB-1 (cheaper) or Whisper (more expensive). Whisper isn't worth it as much if you're dampening your drywall as well (green glue). If you were doing wall/room within a room, you'd use more exotic clips like the IB-3.

To use green glue, you do have to use two layers of "something". It doesn't have to be double drywall, though this is the most practical option. Some folks go 1 layer of OSB and 1 layer of drywall, which makes attaching stuff to your walls easy (never have to look for a channel to screw into). You loose a little mass but gain a little practicality. It's owner's preference on that one.
Perfect, thanks again.
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post #13 of 14 Old 02-19-2015, 06:23 AM
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http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...roofing-clips/

This link shows multiple different clips and gives a breakdown of their uses.


You mentioned IB1 / whisper clips. As you said, they are for attaching hat channel to the ceiling and walls (if you opt for channeling on the walls instead of double wall construction). I've read multiple times that the cheaper IB1's are very close in effectiveness to the whisper clips or green glue brand clips and cost half as much. In fact I've read it directly from Ted White on this forum and had him confirm for me in an email before I placed my order.

IB3 brackets are used to attach (but decouple) the tops of your walls to the joists above or to adjacent walls. They give structural support to keep your walls strong and vertical, but they have the rubber insert that disconnects and isolates so that vibrations don't pass between the walls and the joists or other nearby walls.


If you haven't already read the soundproofing master thread in the stickies.. I strongly recommend you invest the time to do so. I read it when i first came to the forum a couple months ago and I thought it was a revelation. Interestingly enough, I'm re-reading it now, 7 weeks later, and finding that it's even more helpful because I have a better understanding of the concepts discussed. *not trying to chastise you.. just giving a good tip.. that thread is worth the time when you start learning, and again after you've had some time to digest some of the major concepts.
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post #14 of 14 Old 02-19-2015, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eikon View Post
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...roofing-clips/

This link shows multiple different clips and gives a breakdown of their uses.


You mentioned IB1 / whisper clips. As you said, they are for attaching hat channel to the ceiling and walls (if you opt for channeling on the walls instead of double wall construction). I've read multiple times that the cheaper IB1's are very close in effectiveness to the whisper clips or green glue brand clips and cost half as much. In fact I've read it directly from Ted White on this forum and had him confirm for me in an email before I placed my order.

IB3 brackets are used to attach (but decouple) the tops of your walls to the joists above or to adjacent walls. They give structural support to keep your walls strong and vertical, but they have the rubber insert that disconnects and isolates so that vibrations don't pass between the walls and the joists or other nearby walls.


If you haven't already read the soundproofing master thread in the stickies.. I strongly recommend you invest the time to do so. I read it when i first came to the forum a couple months ago and I thought it was a revelation. Interestingly enough, I'm re-reading it now, 7 weeks later, and finding that it's even more helpful because I have a better understanding of the concepts discussed. *not trying to chastise you.. just giving a good tip.. that thread is worth the time when you start learning, and again after you've had some time to digest some of the major concepts.
Based on your explanation, the IB-3 clips would have to be installed at the same time as your framing right? In order to add that rubber protection between the studs and floor joists? I'm assuming that's the decoupling method with them? If so, I'm definitely already past that point and refuse to redo my framing lol. But in the future, that definitely sounds like the better way to go as far as soundproofing is concerned and I'm definitely disappointed in missing that before I framed but I had framed before I found this site unfortunately.

I have read that sticky but as you pointed out, it doesn't always stick or make sense on first read and since I was at this point I figured I better get feedback on my situation before I continued. Especially considering my position before I moved the doorway per the suggestions.
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