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post #31 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 10:28 AM
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Looking forward to this one and happy to help where I can. I am using the same Tweeter that BEF-NO used, but have it paired with a couple TD12M and a TD18H. Love the sound, output and dynamics of these speakers.
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post #32 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 10:49 AM
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Chop - you should change your signature to add link to this thread....it links only to your S.E.O.S.R. MEGA BUILD
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post #33 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 10:51 AM
 
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Chop - you should change your signature to add link to this thread....it links only to your S.E.O.S.R. MEGA BUILD
This thread was one post this morning. lol. But yeah.. .it appears to be off to a good start.
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post #34 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Good call gentlemen, I hadn't even thought of that...I'll change the sig now, thanks!
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post #35 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 12:21 PM
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Thanks Dave! I appreciate the candid account of your experience. I will more than likely use Shawn, I'm just coming to terms with the desgin costing more than my sub system . Even with that in mind, I imagine the difference in the end result will be noticable. I have also downloaded a great skyline diffuser calculator, so the cost of treatments will be next to nothing vs commercially bought. For example, I can make a 2x2 skyline for about $70 and retail is like $450. I could never use the correct amount of diffusion at retail, but to make enough to cover the appropriate areas at 70 each, I'll be good to go for like 60ft2 worth of coverage. From all the reading I've been doing on treating the area behind the listener and so forth, that should be plenty and make a huge difference. Point of that rant, I can use that savings to fund the plans. My wife may hate me after making 20 of them, which require 144 individual cuts each, but we're saving money



LOL, you forgot the nearfield subs in your quote . Problem for me is that I've been in spaces like Popalock's..that with 16 18s, still left me wanting moar bass. Ive actually re drawn the front wall and will probably do 12 d/o enclosures and get 12 1/4 point placements....moar output, better response and a cost of only about $2k for the 8 extra subs and amps to power them. I know for 80% of my time in there it's overkill, I just don't ever want to hit the gas and run out of speed.
I am excited for you Jake. I know it must have been hard to sell off all your stuff when you put it all on hold. I am looking forward to the G2G in 2016!! I can only imagine that it is going to be something to hear. I hope you have a Home Depot or Lowes nearby, I know when I did my room I was at either or everyday and that is not an exaggeration. Luckily my Home Depot is like 6 miles away and Lowes is a little further. Anything you can do to save money will go along way, because some of the prices on things are so painful. If you ever need any help with anything let me know. Maybe me and the Primate can take a road trip if are ever in need of a few guys.

I am planning on ripping out my Quiet Rock in my theater and doing DD and GG. Sucks as it was $60 a sheet. I know if I rip down the drywall I am going to redo my Atmos wiring, not to mention allot of other stuff. I also plan on taking off the siding and wrapping the outside in mass loaded vinyl. I am not sure if that would work or not, but cannot hurt. Either that or I read that they make siding that helps with noise, but don't know if I could get it to match mine. I gotta weigh my options and see if it is worth it to do as I am planning on selling this house in 3 years and might not be worth it, even though I want it.

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post #36 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 12:42 PM
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^^^why rip it all down? Just add another layer of DW with GG ....


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post #37 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 02:55 PM
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^^^why rip it all down? Just add another layer of DW with GG ....


Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP
Because I did not do a hat channel/clips. I just did one layer of 1/2" Quiet Rock. I am happy with it, acoustically sounds great IMO, but the problem being is that my neighbors can hear it. I know I may not be able to keep the bass from rattling their walls, but I can cut down what they can hear. I figure by taking out the last two windows and doing the sound proofing the right way, I can get to where I can put my subs on again. Anyway this is not my thread, so I should not have added my plans here. Sorry Jake.
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post #38 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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No prob here Dave...nothing wrong with you discussing your stuff here. Every little conversation we all have helps someone out...the more talk the better
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post #39 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 04:27 PM
 
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Windows are great bass traps, just open them up... The bass goes right out. Haha.
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post #40 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 09:10 PM
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Since I know you are serious about things there is really only two ways to get it right. Option #1 is hire a pro and have them involved in the design and construction of your actual room - or - Option #2 is go take the HAA class (level II) and learn yourself. The cost is probably about the same.
HAA Level II teaches you A LOT about how to calibrate a home theater system but very little about how to design one. The relevant CEDIA classes (about 10 of them) are what you would need to do if you wanted to learn how to design a home theater. And even then you would know a lot but not have any real world experience. Do you want to use your HT as a test bed? That is what it comes down to.

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post #41 of 474 Old 02-18-2015, 09:11 PM
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I have also downloaded a great skyline diffuser calculator, so the cost of treatments will be next to nothing vs commercially bought. For example, I can make a 2x2 skyline for about $70 and retail is like $450.

Actually something like a Vicoustic Multifuser DC2 costs $125, not $450! Plus if you fabric cover you can use even cheaper diffusers like the Auralex Quadfusor or T'Fusor. All work very well, and all are subtly different.

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post #42 of 474 Old 02-19-2015, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The quads look like they are over 200. The vicoustic look inexpensive but aren't there issues with the poly constructed ones not performing as well as the wood?
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post #43 of 474 Old 02-23-2015, 06:32 AM
 
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Paul just got some ( @J_P_A ) [Plains Theater] and I'm expecting some progress pictures soon. Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking....
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post #44 of 474 Old 02-23-2015, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll be interested to see about those..at $125, the time savings may make them worth while.

I am getting ready to get details over to Shawn now. I have a weird dilemma...I have run the dimensions over and over and for the small extra cost (maybe a thousand bucks) I think I've decided to increase the size a bit in order to give myself a decnet size loby area and optimal rroom in the HT portion for three rows. There is a part of me that likes the idea of a bar//tables in palce of third row of chairs, just simply because we do a decent amount of sports and it's a "friendlier" atmosphere that way. I do still have reservations about the affects of the hard ssurfaces on the sound in the rear of the room though, but I guess Shawn and I will go over that. Long story short, II'm going to a gross ofof 25x45....that puts me in position to have a 8ft wide lobby area and still have a total of 34' of legnth in the HT (Shawnn, I'm sure will dictate final seating positions and such, but the more room to work the better right?).
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post #45 of 474 Old 02-23-2015, 07:14 AM
 
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I am with you on that. I was struggling with the lobby size when I was looking at it and kept thinking just a few more feet here you could really do things with it.

I'm not sure what you would do- but there is a lot of possibilities. You can do the typical classy bar area, that just looks nice and serves the secondary purpose of storing your alcohol bottles, beer fridge, snacks etc... Which makes entertaining better for everyone. If you have friends over for games and fights I could see this getting used- and it keeps the animals out of the house.

Or if you wanted a non alcholic approach you could do the movie theater signs, movie posters, a digital now playing sign, popcorn, candy counter, etc... and just go with the theater theme but with a more kid/family friendly approach.

Or mix them.

I've seen some classy lobby that have ticket counters, arcade machines etc... I've also seen some class bar area lobby too. You could go a lot of different directions towards whatever suits your tastes. But the extra few feet will really let you do more.
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post #46 of 474 Old 02-24-2015, 06:19 PM
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Following along. This is going to be a great great build out.
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post #47 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, though there is nothing more to see yet, some progress has been made. The contract is signed and check sent to the Erskine group, so there's no turning back now!! All we are waiting on is a bit of snow to melt and for Shawn to provide the final footprint for me to give foundation contractor, once the payment arrives of course. I have a speaker question for you folks though....

I have heard everything from the JBL M2, Cats', Noesis 212 and 215, Danley SH60 and SH50, Yorks, most DIYSG stuff and a bunch of the mainstream stuff like, Wilson, Revel, focal, PSB, Paradigm, pretty much everything from B&W etc. So I've heard a lot of speakers, but nothing screams at me that I have to have it over everything else to be honest. I like things about lots of different speakers, it's just that nothing has made me "need" it. I have been all but set on the above JBL pro setup mentioned in the first post, but am getting nervous being that I can't really demo these particular models anyplace. The SCS8 surround scare me far less than the LCR, because the have good specs, look good on paper, and folks I know have been impressed. That doesn't gaurantee success, but if I had to guess, they'd be very similar to a JTR single 8, which I'd be happy to live with for surrounds...at $1k each though, they aren't high on the value list for me. They fit the budget, just dont' seem to be a value investment when you look at how much is available at or around their price point. As for the mains, I have been following along on some of the HTs using quested and other amt based designs, along with diy builds like Mike Gs that use them. I have serious reservations about them for surround duty, and even mains due to the large difference there will be in ear level position from front to back in the HT. I have listened to pretty much all of Legacy amt based designs and absolutely love them at the sweet spot, but the stage and sound in general collapses a bit when one moves off axis..more so vertically. The top end is so sweet on these things, but the other concern is the dynamic capability. I was wondering two things:
1. Has anyone any insight to offer (Mike ) on diy or maybe quested, adam etc, that they've seen the above issues corrected in.
2. What other suggestion would anyone have that I may not have heard? I can go up to about 30k for the full speaker package..lcr, surround and overhead (14 surrounds total). The caveat to that is that I cannot then spend $20k on amps (quested etc type packages) to power the 30k in speakers. The issue is that I can put the lcr JBL3732 and the 14 SCS8 in play for about $9500 total, so the value is high. If I were to top out my budget, I'd really have to be convinced and be able to demo. So you guys know, the thing that makes me nervous about the 3732 is the ability to have that same air and smooth sound up top...no doubt that midrange and midbass will be knock your socks off. It could be that the best option for me is to get them and replace the diaphram with a Be version on the CD.

Ok, sorry for the rant and all suggestions welcome! Thanks guys!
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post #48 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 07:51 AM
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but the stage and sound in general collapses a bit when one moves off axis..more so vertically. The top end is so sweet on these things, but the other concern is the dynamic capability.

Hi chopshop.

If you're trying to maintain off axis (both veticla and horizontal) accuracy, you might want to seriously consider a line array. They solve those issues specifically. There are several tested DIY line arrays available too if you want to go that route. I chose to go with the tested LS-9 from GR Research (more specifically, Danny Richie). There are a few here that have the LS-9 and LS-6 and love them. desertdome has indicated elsewhere that Danny no longer has drivers for the LS-6/LS-9 kits, BUT...I would still reach out to Danny anyway. If there is continued interest in these kits, I'm sure he could arrange something.

As you can see from the pic below, there is no shortage of soundstage nor imaging for anyone in the back row....Line array would suit you well based on your concerns. Something to think about.

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post #49 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks rms8 for the suggestion. I've looked at your thread as well. I've heard the LS6 a few times. I think they are beautiful and well done, but something about them wasn't for me. Can't really put my finger on it, and it's been a long time, but I remember each time thinking that they didn't fit my particular taste. Very well done though, just a case of different strokes.

I can't believe I forgot to write this earlier, but I'm considering Triad as well. The Plats are big coin, but they can be had new even, for large discounts. I'd not be opposed to a well taken care of used set either.
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post #50 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 09:38 AM
 
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Ok, though there is nothing more to see yet, some progress has been made. The contract is signed and check sent to the Erskine group, so there's no turning back now!! All we are waiting on is a bit of snow to melt and for Shawn to provide the final footprint for me to give foundation contractor, once the payment arrives of course. I have a speaker question for you folks though....

I have heard everything from the JBL M2, Cats', Noesis 212 and 215, Danley SH60 and SH50, Yorks, most DIYSG stuff and a bunch of the mainstream stuff like, Wilson, Revel, focal, PSB, Paradigm, pretty much everything from B&W etc. So I've heard a lot of speakers, but nothing screams at me that I have to have it over everything else to be honest. I like things about lots of different speakers, it's just that nothing has made me "need" it. I have been all but set on the above JBL pro setup mentioned in the first post, but am getting nervous being that I can't really demo these particular models anyplace. The SCS8 surround scare me far less than the LCR, because the have good specs, look good on paper, and folks I know have been impressed. That doesn't gaurantee success, but if I had to guess, they'd be very similar to a JTR single 8, which I'd be happy to live with for surrounds...at $1k each though, they aren't high on the value list for me. They fit the budget, just dont' seem to be a value investment when you look at how much is available at or around their price point. As for the mains, I have been following along on some of the HTs using quested and other amt based designs, along with diy builds like Mike Gs that use them. I have serious reservations about them for surround duty, and even mains due to the large difference there will be in ear level position from front to back in the HT. I have listened to pretty much all of Legacy amt based designs and absolutely love them at the sweet spot, but the stage and sound in general collapses a bit when one moves off axis..more so vertically. The top end is so sweet on these things, but the other concern is the dynamic capability. I was wondering two things:
1. Has anyone any insight to offer (Mike ) on diy or maybe quested, adam etc, that they've seen the above issues corrected in.
2. What other suggestion would anyone have that I may not have heard? I can go up to about 30k for the full speaker package..lcr, surround and overhead (14 surrounds total). The caveat to that is that I cannot then spend $20k on amps (quested etc type packages) to power the 30k in speakers. The issue is that I can put the lcr JBL3732 and the 14 SCS8 in play for about $9500 total, so the value is high. If I were to top out my budget, I'd really have to be convinced and be able to demo. So you guys know, the thing that makes me nervous about the 3732 is the ability to have that same air and smooth sound up top...no doubt that midrange and midbass will be knock your socks off. It could be that the best option for me is to get them and replace the diaphram with a Be version on the CD.

Ok, sorry for the rant and all suggestions welcome! Thanks guys!
I think you'd need to sit and think about what it is you really want. Dynamics? Audiophile? SPL and output? Refinement?

Each speaker has something it excels at. But your priority would change the correct answer as to which you should get.

If I wanted totally excessive RIP YOU FACE OFF movie dynamics with YOUGONNAGETRAPED output I would get either JBL PRO set up and run it active with powerful pro audio amps or I would DIY something. For DIY you have a good basis for what to do but something like a premium 15" woofer (JBL 2226/ AT TD15M) with a high end top (BA750, BMS COAX, JBL with the Be upgrade etc). Nothing is going to touch that. The downfall of DIY is the extra effort, and the fact that it takes so much more work to get better than consumer purchased, but the upside is it's possible to be even better when done right. Active crossovers are smart IMO, you can keep tweaking and improving endlessly over time, and if you know how to measure or find someone that can, it's almost a certain thing you'll get perfect response and sound. As long as you can control delay, EQ, crossover slopes, levels, and all that... it's reasonable to expect perfection it just make take many hours of measuring and tweaking and it is indeed a total PITA to set up an entire theater like that. But you understand all this. The easy way out- DSi or DCi Crown Cinema amps with presets and JBL pro active speakers, all the work is done for you by the experts at JBL PRO in anechoic chambers and validated with an army of trained listeners and ABX testing. And you can tweak forever with those amps.

If you favored refinement over SPL and dynamics you'd look at stepping up to the M2 JBL, or take a look at Quested, or something like those Starke speakers. Probably more audiophile first focused, at the expense of incredible output and dynamics.

I'd think you could eventually get 99% there with DIY if you used the right parts, but I would certainly get a proper JBL PRO demo before you decide. I've heard the JBL PRO set up and it's quite impressive, if you like excessive that's your ticket right there.

If you want to go to Manhattan one day and hit up the JBL PRO or M2 demo at the Harman Experience Center LMK. Also, Rob @notnyt had offered to have us for a demo. He's got (8) LMS ported at 15hz, 55,000 watts, and JBL PRO speakers. If you are thinking you might want to go this road, or never heard them, that's your ticket right there. I'll set it up if you want to do that. He's not too far, we could do either that or the Harman store when I pick up those LMS if you wanted. I just need to beg the wife for my balls back before I can commit... lol.
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post #51 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 09:43 AM
 
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Thanks rms8 for the suggestion. I've looked at your thread as well. I've heard the LS6 a few times. I think they are beautiful and well done, but something about them wasn't for me. Can't really put my finger on it, and it's been a long time, but I remember each time thinking that they didn't fit my particular taste. Very well done though, just a case of different strokes.

I can't believe I forgot to write this earlier, but I'm considering Triad as well. The Plats are big coin, but they can be had new even, for large discounts. I'd not be opposed to a well taken care of used set either.
Active Genelec? Some seriously sweet sound there. I have a good friend that is a dealer, he was going to offer to bring them to the next GTG and set them up. You want to join us? March 21 unless the date changes... 1 hour drive. Gillete Stadium area...

I promise you'll poop yourself.

Not the huge dynamics or excessive output but definitely amazing sound quality.

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post #52 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty much up on all of that Mike, it's just that I want to combo of these things and I know it's out there somewhere. I feel like the SEOSR was the ticket, but the reality is that I don't have that kind of time any more and I want to feel confident that the speaker was done the best it could be. There have to be speakers with crazy output capability that still have the "audiophile" sq element. i know a lot of people don't buy into that, but I still do. I think the biggest issue will be not that I'm trying to do 10db over ref all the time, but with a third row at 28 ft or so and the room as large as it is, it's not going to be any small task to get those levels.

I did look at the quested, but have seen some complaints in the UHE forum lately. If I spent like that on gear and had complaints, that wouldn't be good. I'm seriousl wondering if I'll ever find exactly what I'm looking for..it's so frustrating.
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post #53 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 03:40 PM
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I have nothing to offer, but I feel your pain. All designs in all aspects of life have compromises. Your initial launch into DIY madness with the SEOSR was epic and I think you would have gotten pretty close to what you want...eventually. Once you are down the rabbit hole chasing that last 5%-10% is the very definition of madness. I was excited to see where you took that design and still look forward to where you go on this journey as I am also starting a theater build.

The list of speakers that you gave are the best of the best that I have heard, especially when setup properly in an engineered room. The only one not on that list that I want to hear are the triad cinema plus platinums with the baffle wall. Those could be just the ticket or at least get me a little farther down chasing that rabbit.

Great to see you moving forward again after your setback.


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post #54 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 08:03 PM
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FWIW I spent about three years auditioning speakers and it came down to Seaton, Genelec and Procella.

Would have been more than happy with any of them.

Danley was the only one I couldn't arrange.

Cheers,
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post #55 of 474 Old 03-10-2015, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
I'm pretty much up on all of that Mike, it's just that I want to combo of these things and I know it's out there somewhere. I feel like the SEOSR was the ticket, but the reality is that I don't have that kind of time any more and I want to feel confident that the speaker was done the best it could be. There have to be speakers with crazy output capability that still have the "audiophile" sq element. i know a lot of people don't buy into that, but I still do. I think the biggest issue will be not that I'm trying to do 10db over ref all the time, but with a third row at 28 ft or so and the room as large as it is, it's not going to be any small task to get those levels.

I did look at the quested, but have seen some complaints in the UHE forum lately. If I spent like that on gear and had complaints, that wouldn't be good. I'm seriousl wondering if I'll ever find exactly what I'm looking for..it's so frustrating.
First wanted to say good job making a decision on who to use for design. It was good you realized that for what you wanted the value proposition of a professional helping you was value added. That will hopefully be the best dollars you spend in terms of their contribution to the final performance.


Now onto speakers. One of my favorite topics (check out the articles I wrote about speaker directivity - http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/cat...r-directivity/). I am also extremely fussy about speakers. I have heard a lot of dedicated two channel speakers at all kinds of price points, because I do a lot of work with the audiophiles of the world. Most have speakers that cost $15k+, some $80k. Most are 'meh'. Same with most of the rest of the speakers out there. A lot of 'meh'.


Dedicated home theater speakers are a very small niche within a very small niche. That's why there aren't many of them. A third row at 28ft is certainly challenging. Basically at that distance you are restricted to certain driver topologies, mostly horns and compression drivers. Some large line sources (Wisdom, Steinway) will do fine at that distance too but they will not be within your budget I don't think. Certainly at your target price point there is not a lot of choice.


Have you considered paying someone to custom build you some speakers? Let me say that I would not consider myself anything but an amateur speaker designer (I have MUCH respect for the people designing good speakers) but I did a little proof of concept a year or so ago using a 12" woofer with a compression driver on a horn. The difference was all the drivers were top of the line, not the typical stuff that commercial companies or most DIYers are using due to cost. I mean if these were commercial speakers they would have cost $5000 each when the typical markups were factored in. I used an electronic crossover between the woofer and the high frequency compression horn and a ton of DSP correction. Very similar to what Pro Audio Technology are doing, apart from with better drivers and a sealed box. That speaker was designed for an 80Hz crossover (yes a 12" that needs an 80Hz XO, for a start that is not going to work if you are trying to commercially sell speakers as 99.999% of people will have no clue as to why a 12" only goes down to 80Hz). This is already a long story but to cut to the chase that proof of concept sounds better than most "high end audio speakers" I have heard.


Plus it could do 115dB SPL


Anyway, you might consider it as an option. There are speaker designers / builders out there who will do commission projects.
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post #56 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
Some large line sources (Wisdom, Steinway) will do fine at that distance too but they will not be within your budget I don't think. Certainly at your target price point there is not a lot of choice.

This was exactly my point in my post earlier. And the LS-9 would be within the budget he mentioned previously. Actually, several LS-9s for that matter. IMHO, I don't think one should design a system to create the sweet spot for folks 28ft back. The MLP would be my focus. If one is trying to provide at or above reference to seats which are 28ft from the screen, those that are closer will get blasted. Also, one must consider how often that last row will be occupied.

The LS-9 is not the only "affordable" high output, extremely accurate line array out there. Selah Audio makes some very impressive LA's too. There are 3 or 4 LA's from Swan as well. A LA will get him the dispersion he is looking for to cover that many rows and will definitely fit his generous budget. More food for thought.....
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post #57 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 06:52 AM
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I know you were looking for three rows of seats, but I think that is the root cause of your problems and would merit reconsideration as one of those tradeoffs you have to make. Don't get me wrong - it looks great in pictures and is useful the handful of times per year when you have that many folks over for a big party, but perhaps two rows of 5 will suffice....PLUS give you extra breathing room in your lobby for a real concession area and perhaps a half bath or a larger equipment room.

Since you are familiar with what's available via DIY, I would echo Nyal's comment of commissioning someone to do the building to your specification if you don't have the time. Surely that will be far cheaper than branded speakers and would hit your value targets. If that's out, then to my eyes it appears that JBL Pro, Genelec or the upper echelons of Procella and Triad are your only realistic choices for that audio throw distance.

This doesn't even begin to address your video....you are all but guaranteed to be in a very expensive 3-chip DLP to fill that size of screen with enough light. As a placeholder until 4k is a bit more developed, I would push you toward a used Runco LS-10 which has a STUNNING amount of light output and about the only thing that is reasonable in price at the moment on the used market. They normally go for about $8500 used, FYI.

Perhaps you can give me a glimpse of the space when I'm by in April to pick up those 24s....
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Originally Posted by rms8 View Post
This was exactly my point in my post earlier. And the LS-9 would be within the budget he mentioned previously. Actually, several LS-9s for that matter. IMHO, I don't think one should design a system to create the sweet spot for folks 28ft back. The MLP would be my focus. If one is trying to provide at or above reference to seats which are 28ft from the screen, those that are closer will get blasted. Also, one must consider how often that last row will be occupied.

The LS-9 is not the only "affordable" high output, extremely accurate line array out there. Selah Audio makes some very impressive LA's too. There are 3 or 4 LA's from Swan as well. A LA will get him the dispersion he is looking for to cover that many rows and will definitely fit his generous budget. More food for thought.....
I was always surprised more DIY projects did not adopt line array tech or principles. It actually seems the easiest of the designs to get right, since physics is working for you, and not against you. Although I've never actually done a line array... so IDK. Just guessing at that, but with a line array you identical drivers mounting in a line and fed in phase and placed in a way so that they intentionally and constructively interfere with each other to send sound waves farther than traditional horn-loaded loudspeakers, and with a more evenly distributed sound output pattern.

I've liked all the line array's I've heard before. I liked them a lot. I thought the Wisdom audio demo at Cedia was one of the better ones, but because it was not Atmos it was forgotten. It did not seem like many people even noticed they used a hard wood floor and hard surface ceiling in that demo, reduced floor and ceiling bounce is an advantage line arrays have. In some cases they can really make a lot of sense to use if you understand how to use them.

But I think line array are generally expensive, which is a reason why they are not so popular. You need a lot of drivers, and if you use premium drivers that gets expensive. Also, dedicated spaces have room treatments, including carpet and pad floors so the floor ceiling bounce is less an issue. But these pictures I see all over AVS with soft dome fancy speakers in nice higher end rooms/homes with hard wood, tile and glass everywhere make me cringe sometimes. A high end speaker is going to sound like poop there, you can tell just by looking at it. Line array might actually make more sense in a live room, or a room with a hard floor surface and ceiling, but certainly output is also an advantage of a line array. They get silly loud, like hearing damage loud.

And lets face it, if Jake has a style it's probably something like this:



haha... I could see him hanging something like that ^ lulz.

Or this:



or this:

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post #59 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Appreciate the thoughts guys!

Nyal, I have built a couple of DIY designs that were on the verge of being very good. I think with tweaking, they could fit the bill. The problem for me is time. I had talked with Mark Seaton a while back and was going to commision him to build a design for me, maybe that would be good to revisit. Maybe I should just go back to the SEOSR design I had and see what we can do. I'd venture a guess it will best anything that can be bought anywhere within reason. The basic cost for me on those would be $1600 each for the lcr...I have some components still as well. The biggest concern at that point will be getting surrounds that will match close enough (I know it's not quite as critical, but I'm a bit of a stickler) to be acceptable.

rms...I'm going to see about getting another audition of a really capable LA. I know that ref at the rear isn't something that will be used often if ever, but with the amount of money being spent, I'd like to know I'm not going to fall short...I'm a huge fan of headroom. More often than not, the third row will be unoccupied, occupied by kids for movie nights with friends, or occupied by my buddies on fight nights. That in mind, I need to reach ref + at the second row, which will likely be my sweet spot due to viewing angle, 21 or 22ft out.
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post #60 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I know you were looking for three rows of seats, but I think that is the root cause of your problems and would merit reconsideration as one of those tradeoffs you have to make. Don't get me wrong - it looks great in pictures and is useful the handful of times per year when you have that many folks over for a big party, but perhaps two rows of 5 will suffice....PLUS give you extra breathing room in your lobby for a real concession area and perhaps a half bath or a larger equipment room.

Since you are familiar with what's available via DIY, I would echo Nyal's comment of commissioning someone to do the building to your specification if you don't have the time. Surely that will be far cheaper than branded speakers and would hit your value targets. If that's out, then to my eyes it appears that JBL Pro, Genelec or the upper echelons of Procella and Triad are your only realistic choices for that audio throw distance.

This doesn't even begin to address your video....you are all but guaranteed to be in a very expensive 3-chip DLP to fill that size of screen with enough light. As a placeholder until 4k is a bit more developed, I would push you toward a used Runco LS-10 which has a STUNNING amount of light output and about the only thing that is reasonable in price at the moment on the used market. They normally go for about $8500 used, FYI.

Perhaps you can give me a glimpse of the space when I'm by in April to pick up those 24s....
Video is easy....well not easy, but done already. I was able to secure a Display Development HD5 last week. Basically the pinnacle of 3chip 1080 dlp pjs. It has the capability of handling the room/screen with relative ease.
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