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post #61 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I was always surprised more DIY projects did not adopt line array tech or principles. It actually seems the easiest of the designs to get right, since physics is working for you, and not against you. Although I've never actually done a line array... so IDK. Just guessing at that, but with a line array you identical drivers mounting in a line and fed in phase and placed in a way so that they intentionally and constructively interfere with each other to send sound waves farther than traditional horn-loaded loudspeakers, and with a more evenly distributed sound output pattern.

I've liked all the line array's I've heard before. I liked them a lot. I thought the Wisdom audio demo at Cedia was one of the better ones, but because it was not Atmos it was forgotten. It did not seem like many people even noticed they used a hard wood floor and hard surface ceiling in that demo, reduced floor and ceiling bounce is an advantage line arrays have. In some cases they can really make a lot of sense to use if you understand how to use them.

But I think line array are generally expensive, which is a reason why they are not so popular. You need a lot of drivers, and if you use premium drivers that gets expensive. Also, dedicated spaces have room treatments, including carpet and pad floors so the floor ceiling bounce is less an issue. But these pictures I see all over AVS with soft dome fancy speakers in nice higher end rooms/homes with hard wood, tile and glass everywhere make me cringe sometimes. A high end speaker is going to sound like poop there, you can tell just by looking at it. Line array might actually make more sense in a live room, or a room with a hard floor surface and ceiling, but certainly output is also an advantage of a line array. They get silly loud, like hearing damage loud.
I really wanted to hear what these JBL's would sound like in a HT setting :
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post #62 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to rebuild the SEOSR and see how they do. It doesn't mean I won't try something else, but while the room is being constructed I can play with them. If they meet the need, then easy, done! The step from there will be to figure out what to use for the surrounds and overhead channels....I'd bet the JBL SCS8 would still work well and at the price I can get them for, they are a great value.

I just keep going back to the SEOSR sound...although they needed work still and it was the four woofer version, I think that a dialed in two woofer version all tweaked will be a world beater. There were things about them I loved and they seemed to have that potential to marry high output/high efficiency and that smooth "audiophile" type sound for music. I guess I just got caught up in wondering how something I'd build, even with great help, could compete with such high dollar, professionally built speakers. I was afraid to spend all this money on the rooma nd professional design, and fill it with diy speakers I built. In the end, I know deep down that diy'ing, with the right help can produce fantasitc results!

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post #63 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I really wanted to hear what these JBL's would sound like in a HT setting :
very cool
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post #64 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 07:20 AM
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I think this one statement may be getting lost from time to time :

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The result will be a gross acoustical space of 21'10 1/2" x 38'10 1/2", with 12'5" ceiling.
That is a huge room. I thought mine was on the large'ish size at 21x27x10, but the room chop is planning is HUGE. So yeah, finding speakers which will fill the cubes with quality sound for all rows is a pretty good challenge.
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post #65 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I have nothing to offer, but I feel your pain. All designs in all aspects of life have compromises. Your initial launch into DIY madness with the SEOSR was epic and I think you would have gotten pretty close to what you want...eventually. Once you are down the rabbit hole chasing that last 5%-10% is the very definition of madness. I was excited to see where you took that design and still look forward to where you go on this journey as I am also starting a theater build.

The list of speakers that you gave are the best of the best that I have heard, especially when setup properly in an engineered room. The only one not on that list that I want to hear are the triad cinema plus platinums with the baffle wall. Those could be just the ticket or at least get me a little farther down chasing that rabbit.

Great to see you moving forward again after your setback.


BT1
Thank BT1..as said above, I've made the decision to try to finish the seosr...not that this means Im not still looking at the other options, but I think you're right about this. The fall down that rabbit hole is something...I think the seosr, when optimized fully, will be a rediculous speaker...99% of the way there. If it doesn't work out and I put something else in there, I know I'll selll the components.
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post #66 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 11:45 AM
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Very cool to see your project plans moving forward again.

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Thank BT1..as said above, I've made the decision to try to finish the seosr...not that this means Im not still looking at the other options, but I think you're right about this. The fall down that rabbit hole is something...I think the seosr, when optimized fully, will be a rediculous speaker...99% of the way there. If it doesn't work out and I put something else in there, I know I'll selll the components.
Good move. You might want to just stick to the dual woofer version that MTG90 already had worked out or switch to a pair of TD18s like lukeamdman is using. When I scanned this thread this morning I was a bit concerned with your choice of the super tall JBLs where I have to wonder if you were just too close at the front vs third row for such a tall speaker with HF, mid and woofer sections spread vertically that much.

Of course I'm laughing at the notion of a settled list of products so quickly as those of us who know you, also know that plan will alter at least 6 times in the next 2 months.

Mark Seaton
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"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #67 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Talking

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Very cool to see your project plans moving forward again.



Good move. You might want to just stick to the dual woofer version that MTG90 already had worked out or switch to a pair of TD18s like lukeamdman is using. When I scanned this thread this morning I was a bit concerned with your choice of the super tall JBLs where I have to wonder if you were just too close at the front vs third row for such a tall speaker with HF, mid and woofer sections spread vertically that much.

Of course I'm laughing at the notion of a settled list of products so quickly as those of us who know you, also know that plan will alter at least 6 times in the next 2 months.
Hahahaha...right you are sir! Matt seemed to feel very good about the dual 15M version, so I'm thinking I'll stick with that. I feel like the demo we had of them at Andrews' when it was the quad, showed a lot of the potential of them. I ultimately think they'll be the best option for me and my space....virtually unlimited output and the ability to play with finese when needed. I worried a bit about the JBL as well....originally I was thinking 4722 for that reason, but looked at the 3732 due to the fact that the component set stepped up a good deal. The seosr should slay....I'm going to run down to Andrew's place in the next few weeks and get some some new cabinets and bracing cut on the cnc. The existing are fine, but if they're going to be the final piece in the HT, I want them to be a step up..not that anyone is ever going to see them

Hopefully Matt can make it out to tweak eventually or at least work in communication with me to tweak based on what I'm hearing. It stinks that he doesn't have the CD anymore, so further testing kinda out the window.
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post #68 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 01:21 PM
 
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The biggest concern at that point will be getting surrounds that will match close enough (I know it's not quite as critical, but I'm a bit of a stickler) to be acceptable.



Should I open it?

You do not need the match the surrounds to the fronts, that's nonsense. All the study I have seen on the subject and knowledgable posts have explained that timbre matching is as much a result of location and environment as it is identical speakers, and that identical speakers in different locations will not have the exact same timbre so it's not necessary to match them. It's probably not going to hurt, but it might not help either.

I think the best you need to do is stick with a reasonably similar type of speakers (CD/horns, soft domes, ...etc) and product family (brand of drivers, or speakers, ...etc). But you don't need perfectly matching overheads or surrounds (rears or backs). If you had to sacrifice matching rears to fronts, I would not at all hesitate to sacrifice that, provided you gain something else you desire by doing so. On the list of priorities, this is low man on the totem pole. Don't sweat this too much.
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post #69 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Should I open it?

You do not need the match the surrounds to the fronts, that's nonsense. All the study I have seen on the subject and knowledgable posts have explained that timbre matching is as much a result of location and environment as it is identical speakers, and that identical speakers in different locations will not have the exact same timbre so it's not necessary to match them. It's probably not going to hurt, but it might not help either.

I think the best you need to do is stick with a reasonably similar type of speakers (CD/horns, soft domes, ...etc) and product family (brand of drivers, or speakers, ...etc). But you don't need perfectly matching overheads or surrounds (rears or backs). If you had to sacrifice matching rears to fronts, I would not at all hesitate to sacrifice that, provided you gain something else you desire by doing so. On the list of priorities, this is low man on the totem pole. Don't sweat this too much.
I don't disagree entirely Mike, but I am not an acoustician...most of us on here aren't. I will talk with Shawn on this too. I would tend to agree that it's not necessary, but if you read my post, pretty much think anything relatively close (CD based design) will work well...I bet the SCS JBLs will work. That's certainly not a "matching" surround bby any means to the seosr. I am pretty up on most of this...I've read the debates etc, we all have different opinions in the subject. The Seaton Spark isn't the same speaker as the CAT, but has a common component (the 8" coax) and it's certainly a better match than any other surround...I don't think anyone would call that nonsense. That said, I bet most folks woulldn't know the difference if you sat them in a room where they weren't aware of components and it was a CAT lcr with JTR single 8 surrounds.
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post #70 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 01:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Very cool to see your project plans moving forward again.

Good move. You might want to just stick to the dual woofer version that MTG90 already had worked out or switch to a pair of TD18s like lukeamdman is using. When I scanned this thread this morning I was a bit concerned with your choice of the super tall JBLs where I have to wonder if you were just too close at the front vs third row for such a tall speaker with HF, mid and woofer sections spread vertically that much.

Of course I'm laughing at the notion of a settled list of products so quickly as those of us who know you, also know that plan will alter at least 6 times in the next 2 months.
I would echo this too. Sometimes less is more. It's easier to cross a single 15" to a single CD in a 2 way, than it is to integrate 5 woofers and tweeters in a 2.5/3/4/5 way crossover. Even active. Active is easier to actually adjust or set the crossover vs aligator clips or soldering, but it's not an easy thing to integrate many drivers perfectly. Not a project you'd want to tackle first Jake. I'm close enough, and happy to help.

I'm right at the point of measuring and setting my TD15M/DNA360 two way LCR now, and happy to help share what I'm learning and what settings I am using. If you need some help cutting up boxes or whatever, happy to help too. Right now I am at a 950hz crossover, two way, between the DNA360 and the TD15. It sounds... ok. I am really hesitant to get too excited, even though I might think it sounds good, because any DIY project you have a honeymoon phase and think it sounds amazing just because it's making sound. There is more to it than that. That's also why privately I had recommend the active so much, ditch the passive crossovers all together. It will make future tweaking and upgrades so much easier. It's not unreasonable to think you might have some AVS friends over to help you measure and tweak and improve your already decent crossover settings or EQ/delay months after your project is "completed". I don't see the same thing happening if you need to pull a woofer out and solder stuff.

If you do 4 woofers, you start worry about the acoustical effects of multi woofers and the physics of waves, center to center spacing, comb filtering, and all that crazy stuff that starts to drive you nuts. Not impossible, but just more to consider. Simple is good. Start with a single, then try a double. Then if you like, add some more. You can even do it modular, make the boxes stackable so you can run it with one woofer or two, or 4... (or 16 if you get really nuts ) That is what I did. I made the JBL 2226 box so it can go under or above the tower as a MBM. That way if I decide I want to try double 15" I could do something like a 2.5 or 3 way crossover with that 4th amp, but the box is separate so if I total epic fail, no problem. I can still do 2 way with just one TD15M. My room is planned to be 36 feet long, two rows, with bar area in the back. 3 foot false wall or baffle wall. I'm 26 wide, 10 foot ceilings. I am not far off from you. Based on this single TD15M in my garage, it's enough output to cause you to run or damage your hearing. Even at 20 feet, it's totally stupid. Only the midbass you might want more, but from 200hz + there is nothing needed more. I can't really judge because I get wicked nulls and room interactions in my garage, it's concrete floor, drywall ceiling and walls, insulated heavy duty plastic single door. BAD FOR BASS, so can't judge that part yet.

Less is more. Start small, then build. If you bite off more than you can chew, or over complicate it then you will further complicate the results. I would stick with no more than 2 woofers to start and I would NOT do 18". It's not worthwhile IMO to go from 15 to 18. You run into woofer beaming sooner with that bigger woofer, and I don't see what benefit you'll gain with the bigger woofer. Even if you can cross before it's a problem, why not have the ability to run a bit higher since you would employ a proper subwoofer system anyways, which you can locate properly for great bass response. The best place to make bass isn't always the best place to locate your LCR speakers, so I think it's best to keep them separate. I would design a speaker that could reasonably cross at 60hz to 80hz, but chasing bass too low only complicates things and is not necessary in your LCR speakers. Often times a midrange and midbass woofer will sound better if you don't tax it with trying to reproduce low bass, which is another reason not to do that. I think 60hz might possibly have a benefit, but I can't see much lower than that being of good use or design if you will otherwise employ a bigtime proper subwoofer system. You certainly want flexibility with your crossover though, since you can use your crossover on your LCR to help account for room problems.

Consider a modular design. One that you can move around, try a woofer/horn/woofer design, or a woofer/woofer/horn design, even add more woofers under or on top... then you can actually decide if it's worth it to use 4 woofers, 2, or only 1. Or you can start with 1 or two and build to more later. This sounds like a really cool project.

I also mentioned to you in the text and email about starting with JBL pro stuff, and then switching that out when your DIY project was up to par and ready to beat it out. Nothing like setting a bar high and then looking to knock it down. If you go active JBL pro you can easily just make new DSP perset settings for your DIY project and use the same amps and easily switch back and forth. Just swap the preset and speaker wires. The JBL pro stuff or cinema stuff also hold a decently good resale value so unloading it won't kill you either. That would be my recommendation if you don't want to jump in cold turkey and all or nothing, or you get impatient and just need something. Of all the things you are looking at, an active JBL screen array set up like the 4722 or whatever seems to lend itself well to conversion into a monster DIY project. After I make a some more progress and I am ready you are welcome to come hear the TD15 and JBL 2226, or I can bring it down (but they are seriously like 300 pounds each). That is another reason I say modular. 2 or 4 15" woofers, a heavy ass CD, double MDF baffle and giant box... that is going to be a monster to move around. Just manage the CTC spacing if you go with separate boxes, but way worth it IMO.
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post #71 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 02:02 PM
 
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I don't disagree entirely Mike, but I am not an acoustician...most of us on here aren't. I will talk with Shawn on this too. I would tend to agree that it's not necessary, but if you read my post, pretty much think anything relatively close (CD based design) will work well...I bet the SCS JBLs will work. That's certainly not a "matching" surround bby any means to the seosr. I am pretty up on most of this...I've read the debates etc, we all have different opinions in the subject. The Seaton Spark isn't the same speaker as the CAT, but has a common component (the 8" coax) and it's certainly a better match than any other surround...I don't think anyone would call that nonsense. That said, I bet most folks woulldn't know the difference if you sat them in a room where they weren't aware of components and it was a CAT lcr with JTR single 8 surrounds.
Shawn is a disciple of Dennis Erksine, so if he agrees with Dennis he is going to tell you not matching the rears to the fronts isn't a big deal. I've seen him post and design other projects so I kind of know his answer, and I have seen Dennis post on the same subject, but best you hear it from the horse mouth. As far as acoustical knowledge you and I might defer but Nyal and Shawn both are rather well educated on the matter so it would be interesting to hear some more on the topic if it comes to fruition. I was just more caution you not to paint yourself into a corner if you don't need to do it or over think and over complicate things.
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post #72 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 02:07 PM
 
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Hey... not to further complicate things but you kind of need to know the polars, off axis, general behavior, and all that of your speakers if you want a proper acoustical treatment plan. If you are designing a room, it might be helpful to know that stuff up front. If you are using a big 24" SEOS horn, it's pretty consistent and easy enough to predict or know since it's well measured. But measuring that might be important in room design if you can't obtain that data. Or design the room in a way that treatments can be handled after the fact, and use best guestimates for now.
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post #73 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Shawn is a disciple of Dennis Erksine, so if he agrees with Dennis he is going to tell you not matching the rears to the fronts isn't a big deal. I've seen him post and design other projects so I kind of know his answer, and I have seen Dennis post on the same subject, but best you hear it from the horse mouth. As far as acoustical knowledge you and I might defer but Nyal and Shawn both are rather well educated on the matter so it would be interesting to hear some more on the topic if it comes to fruition. I was just more caution you not to paint yourself into a corner if you don't need to do it or over think and over complicate things.
I agree 100% with regard to the above...just didn't want it to seem like I know nothing on the subject. I'm actually vesed fairly well in a lot of the basics, just nowehere near as capable of educated as someone like MTG, etc, nevermind the likes of Seaton of Shawn, those gusy are just another level entirely.

With regard to the long post above, I've been through it...I know about these things for the most part..crossover points, trying to implent a design with more woofers, etc. I also agree with the 15s for my purpose. The TD15M is a special woofer and I'll stick with duals. I don't think I need more than that. I truely think the dual 15 seosr will own
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post #74 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 02:30 PM
 
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Yeah it will own. That's a nice woofer. What top end driver ? I saw someone selling (3) Td15M for $600 in the for sale section. I was seriously considering grabbing them for dualies .
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post #75 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey... not to further complicate things but you kind of need to know the polars, off axis, general behavior, and all that of your speakers if you want a proper acoustical treatment plan. If you are designing a room, it might be helpful to know that stuff up front. If you are using a big 24" SEOS horn, it's pretty consistent and easy enough to predict or know since it's well measured. But measuring that might be important in room design if you can't obtain that data. Or design the room in a way that treatments can be handled after the fact, and use best guestimates for now.
absolutely..Matt has some of them, but not sure how extensive. I will get the new cabinets whipped up pretty quickly and can measure with my gear so that Shawn can tweak one he has complete data.
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post #76 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I would have loved to grab them but theyre 8 ohm...the ones I have left are 4ohm
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post #77 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 04:06 PM
 
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Yeah 4ohm. . 8ohm only makes sense if you double them up, but if you wanted to do a 2.5 way crossover you'd not do that anyways. My JBL 2226 woofers are 8ohm.
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post #78 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 04:16 PM
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I'm going to rebuild the SEOSR and see how they do. It doesn't mean I won't try something else, but while the room is being constructed I can play with them. If they meet the need, then easy, done! The step from there will be to figure out what to use for the surrounds and overhead channels....I'd bet the JBL SCS8 would still work well and at the price I can get them for, they are a great value.

I just keep going back to the SEOSR sound...although they needed work still and it was the four woofer version, I think that a dialed in two woofer version all tweaked will be a world beater. There were things about them I loved and they seemed to have that potential to marry high output/high efficiency and that smooth "audiophile" type sound for music. I guess I just got caught up in wondering how something I'd build, even with great help, could compete with such high dollar, professionally built speakers. I was afraid to spend all this money on the rooma nd professional design, and fill it with diy speakers I built. In the end, I know deep down that diy'ing, with the right help can produce fantasitc results!

Fuq yes! This is what I was hoping for! Since it is the 2 woofer version you could call it the SEOSr.

Too bad John from AE is so busy. He could be of great help in design and also makes some very good looking cabinets. He was playing with a 2 way with the radian CD and it was looking really promising.


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post #79 of 474 Old 03-11-2015, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Hahaha...I know, I just had to convince myself as long as John can get me woofers I'm happy. I'll do the enclosures and make sure they're finished product quality.
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post #80 of 474 Old 03-16-2015, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok gents, some development. I have the order in and three more SEOS24 on the way for the SEOSR rebuild! AE will take 6-8 weeks to get me new TD15M woofs, but that's ok since I still have to rebuild new and improved enclosures for them and plenty of work to do in the room construction anyhow. Still waiting to hear back from Assistance Audio and see what kind of deal Jack will give me on some more 4594s. Planning to use the same Crown DSi amps I had last time...they'll take the JBL SCS8 right to their peak at 118db (275w per channel at 8ohm) and they power the CDs at 275w each for MF and HF. Woofers would see 950w per pair as well. That should be about right based on the calculations working with Matt way back, for the proper level matching on the woofers and CD. I'd be open to anyone's suggestion for other amps that may perform a bit better, lower noise etc, but at $400 each, these are hard to beat. I'd not be using their dsp of course. I am keeping an open mind with regard to any speaker suggestions Shawn may have as well, but I can't see anything besting the SEOSR without spending tens of thousands more on the front channels (which I'm not about to do) and even then, who knows. For HT, and even some extent music, I don't know what out there will do much better. We'll see.

This is the proposed gross dimension sketch I sent to Shawn last week. He's gone ahead and preliminarily said that the gross outer dimensions will work, but of course I need to wait on much more detailed info from him over the next few weeks.
Click image for larger version

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I have to wait for Shawn's details regarding number of drywall layers, exact HxWxL and sound proofing measures, but with these gross dimensions I'd imagine the acoustical space will be 36x23x12'6" and then a total of 33' usable space after the screen/false wall (assuming 3' behind it of course).

It's getting real now! I finally feel good about this project and can't wait for it to take form.
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post #81 of 474 Old 03-16-2015, 11:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
Ok gents, some development. I have the order in and three more SEOS24 on the way for the SEOSR rebuild! AE will take 6-8 weeks to get me new TD15M woofs, but that's ok since I still have to rebuild new and improved enclosures for them and plenty of work to do in the room construction anyhow. Still waiting to hear back from Assistance Audio and see what kind of deal Jack will give me on some more 4594s. Planning to use the same Crown DSi amps I had last time...they'll take the JBL SCS8 right to their peak at 118db (275w per channel at 8ohm) and they power the CDs at 275w each for MF and HF. Woofers would see 950w per pair as well. That should be about right based on the calculations working with Matt way back, for the proper level matching on the woofers and CD. I'd be open to anyone's suggestion for other amps that may perform a bit better, lower noise etc, but at $400 each, these are hard to beat. I'd not be using their dsp of course. I am keeping an open mind with regard to any speaker suggestions Shawn may have as well, but I can't see anything besting the SEOSR without spending tens of thousands more on the front channels (which I'm not about to do) and even then, who knows. For HT, and even some extent music, I don't know what out there will do much better. We'll see.
Nice.

I like your style. The DSi amps are one of the cleaner and quiter amps, since they are made to run the active JBL stuff they exhibit low amount of tweeter hiss on the CD. If you go with a different amp, you would want to make sure that is still the case.

If you wanted bigger amps you could do the DSi2000 which isn't too much more with discounts.

But honestly you are crazy. One channel of a DSi at full tilt active on a CD is just insanity dude. You simply can't dump 475 watts onto a 100db+ efficient tweeter and retain your hearing. The little DSi 1000 does 474watts per channel and 1400watts bridged mode. Even in 8ohms it's silly...(275?) and the DSi2000 does 800 watts a channel.

Active amps and set up's are like 6db louder than passive ones right off the start, and if you end up using one amp or more per speaker you end up powering your speakers with thousand of watts. Without the passive network to suck that power up it just becomes crazy. You can probably hit reference with 3 watts... haha.

I would not worry too much about the power. Look for a clean amp, with a low noise floor, because when you run active on high efficiency tweeters you can get hiss. I like the Crowns, I find the audio architect software easy to use and it's quite powerful. With the adapters you can even set it up wireless, which might be cool to bring it up on screen in the theater and tweak from a laptop. Just food for thought...

Did you decide on single or double 15" woofers?
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post #82 of 474 Old 03-16-2015, 11:41 AM
 
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This is the proposed gross dimension sketch I sent to Shawn last week. He's gone ahead and preliminarily said that the gross outer dimensions will work, but of course I need to wait on much more detailed info from him over the next few weeks.
Attachment 605337

I have to wait for Shawn's details regarding number of drywall layers, exact HxWxL and sound proofing measures, but with these gross dimensions I'd imagine the acoustical space will be 36x23x12'6" and then a total of 33' usable space after the screen/false wall (assuming 3' behind it of course).

It's getting real now! I finally feel good about this project and can't wait for it to take form.


THAT IS HUGE BRO
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post #83 of 474 Old 03-16-2015, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice.

I like your style. The DSi amps are one of the cleaner and quiter amps, since they are made to run the active JBL stuff they exhibit low amount of tweeter hiss on the CD. If you go with a different amp, you would want to make sure that is still the case.

If you wanted bigger amps you could do the DSi2000 which isn't too much more with discounts.

But honestly you are crazy. One channel of a DSi at full tilt active on a CD is just insanity dude. You simply can't dump 475 watts onto a 100db+ efficient tweeter and retain your hearing. The little DSi 1000 does 474watts per channel and 1400watts bridged mode. Even in 8ohms it's silly...(275?) and the DSi2000 does 800 watts a channel.

Active amps and set up's are like 6db louder than passive ones right off the start, and if you end up using one amp or more per speaker you end up powering your speakers with thousand of watts. Without the passive network to suck that power up it just becomes crazy. You can probably hit reference with 3 watts... haha.

I would not worry too much about the power. Look for a clean amp, with a low noise floor, because when you run active on high efficiency tweeters you can get hiss. I like the Crowns, I find the audio architect software easy to use and it's quite powerful. With the adapters you can even set it up wireless, which might be cool to bring it up on screen in the theater and tweak from a laptop. Just food for thought...

Did you decide on single or double 15" woofers?
Yeah, it's nutz....275 each to the HF/MF sections of the CD....it's wayyyyyy up there. It will be active, just some protection in place is all. I know I don't need any of it, it's just good cheap power. I'll chat with Matt, but I'm sure I'll have to bring it down a bit somehow.
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post #84 of 474 Old 03-16-2015, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, I'm very seriously considering 8 of the SI HS24z again too
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post #85 of 474 Old 03-16-2015, 11:56 AM
 
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Yeah, it's nutz....275 each to the HF/MF sections of the CD....it's wayyyyyy up there. It will be active, just some protection in place is all. I know I don't need any of it, it's just good cheap power. I'll chat with Matt, but I'm sure I'll have to bring it down a bit somehow.
I have to run my DNA360 at -12db down from the woofer FYI. So yeah you will be bringing it down... haha.

For protection I just through a 60uf cap on mine, but my crossover is at 950hz. I would assume you'll end up using a smaller cap with a lower placed slope, a single cap placed just near or under your intended crossover is a good idea just to protect from amp thump on turn on and that sort of thing. You could even use it as part of your active crossover, which might be helpful if you wanted a steeper slope or something. I would definitely talk with Matt about that because done right it's probably included in part of the active settings. Man this project just sounds so awesome...
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Oh yeah, I'm very seriously considering 8 of the SI HS24z again too
You have a prevailing sickness. I like it.

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post #87 of 474 Old 03-16-2015, 11:59 AM
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THAT IS HUGE BRO
No kidding! That lobby is nearly exactly the size of my entire theater
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post #88 of 474 Old 03-20-2015, 10:44 PM
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LOL, you forgot the nearfield subs in your quote . Problem for me is that I've been in spaces like Popalock's..that with 16 18s, still left me wanting moar bass. Ive actually re drawn the front wall and will probably do 12 d/o enclosures and get 12 1/4 point placements....moar output, better response and a cost of only about $2k for the 8 extra subs and amps to power them. I know for 80% of my time in there it's overkill, I just don't ever want to hit the gas and run out of speed.
Haven't we learned our lesson yet Chop? Even if you only use it 1% of the time, you are going to find the limits and you will inevitably want more... I say using words like overkill and headroom conflict with certain personality characteristics...

There will never be enough "speed", "power", "spl" or "moar" to keep certain people satisfied for the long run. How many times have we seen people say "I've reached Nirvana," or "I reach my limits before my gear does," or "I can't see it getting any better than this," only to see them completely change their perspective a few weeks or months later.

I, myself, have stated my preference of wanting to be able to reach my physical limits before my gear does... It just isn't going to happen...

My proposal to you...and something I've been considering for my next space...

Do whatever it is you are planning with the theater, go as crazy with it as you want. 16 - 24 - 32 subs... Whatever. It will be awesome. However (and this is where it departs from the norm), to ensure you don't ever get the itch to upgrade, make a dedicated space for a bass closet. I'm talking maybe a 6' x 6' room lined floor to ceiling with subs (maybe even horns if you are feeling froggy. Something that can get you in the mid 150's in the bass region.

This way, if you ever think to yourself, "Man, I could use a bit more extension and/or +6db more of headroom when I get drunk should do the trick," all you would have to do is go to your "timeout" closet to get your blast on...

Boom... I just saved you like $15K in upgrades. Just plan for it now. You will thank me later.

Your welcome homey.
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post #89 of 474 Old 03-21-2015, 07:02 AM
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I think if Mark built four sets of these along with your two rotary subs you'd be set for a while...


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post #90 of 474 Old 03-21-2015, 08:41 AM
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I think if Mark built four sets of these along with your two rotary subs you'd be set for a while...

Chop would have phase issues if he went with rotary subs... It would be a short phase.
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