mikela's SBA/Trinnov Theater Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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mikela's SBA/Trinnov Theater Build AKA "The Event Horizon"

After much procrastination, I have decided to document my build. It will be a single bass array Atmos/Auro/DTS home theater based on the Trinnov Altitude (16 channel). Source of inspiration are Nils’ (FoLLgoTT) threads on on DBA’s and SBA’s. Jeff (BIGmouthinDC) has been my sounding board and source of practical experience via Skype. Ted White from The Soundproofing Company provided expertise and materials for soundproofing. Curt (Curt_Trinnov) is working locally with me on the Trinnov implementation. The theater itself is approximately 10x15.5x22 and will seat 6. It will feature 12 15" Ficar IB315 subwoofers in a six dual manifold infinite baffle configuration, 3 Danley SM60Fs for LCR (Tom Danley comments) and 12 Reaction Audio CX-8 coaxes with Be diaphragms for surrounds/overheads. Screen will be 130" acoustically transparent and curved. Existing projector was a JVC RS1 and now is an RS600.

Equipment List:

Trinnov Altitude 32 (16 channels)
3 Danley SM60F's (LCR)
12 Reaction Audio coaxes CX-8's with Be diaphragms
3 D-sonic M3-600M-A's amplifiers (LCR)
1 D-sonic M3-2000-5 amplifiers (surrounds)
1 D-sonic M3-2800-7 amplifiers (surrounds)
3 Behringer Europower EP4000 amps (subwoofers)
12 Ficar IB315 15" IB subwoofers
Lumagen Radiance Pro (18Gbps)
Oppo 203
JVC RS600
Roku Ultra 4K
HDFury Integral

The speaker layout is a hybrid configuration meant to take advantage of the Altitude's Virtual Remapping feature. It is optimized to enable switching between 9.1.4 Atmos or 13.1 Auro. If Auro is DOA as some have proposed then I will have a couple of extra surrounds to add to the Atmos configuration.



I retired from a major aerospace company a couple of years ago and have been remodeling houses in my spare time. I built my existing house (literally myself) about 30 years ago. As a compromise, before I could start building the theater, I had to agree to redesign and remodel the kitchen/dining area.



Here is the old kitchen/family room layout. The french doors are where the 4 panel sliding glass doors are now in the remodel for reference. You can see my diy sealed Statements, Velodyne DD18 and the parts for 3 QSC2150s off to the right. I never built the 2150s and likely will sell them. We blew out the wall to the left of the Statements and extended the room out into the backyard by about 16 feet.





Finished theater



Home Theater of the Month article here with additional photos.

Acoustic Frontiers article on the acoustic design for this theater.

Mike
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Last edited by mikela; 06-02-2019 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Updated equipment list
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post #2 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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A few construction photos:







Deck with parapet wall above theater



This shows the new entrance to the theater just to the right of the 4 panel sliding glass door looking across the unfinished kitchen island. Later on I moved the theater door to the right by about a foot to accommodate the wide surrounds.



Deck area above the theater

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Last edited by mikela; 03-25-2015 at 10:47 PM.
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post #3 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The fun begins

Screen end of theater



Rear



I received great guidance from Ted on the metal HVAC duct. Replaced metal with thin duct liner and covered with OSB. Also put putty on back of service panel.



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post #4 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikela View Post
The speaker layout is a hybrid configuration meant to take advantage of the Altitude's Virtual Remapping feature. It is optimized to enable switching between 9.1.4 Atmos or 13.1 Auro.
Must say that this approach never occurred to me until you explained it at a local HT meet recently. If you start from the premise that Trinnov remapping will always be on, then rather than optimizing for either format (or doing a compromise), you're instead using speaker locations that make it easiest for the remapping algorithm to switch between layouts. Clever. Thankfully, the non-height locations are common to all the immersive formats.
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post #5 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Bingo! You said it more clearly than I did.
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post #6 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 02:18 PM
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From what I've seen of the plans for this room and Skype video chats this room is really going to be something with a speaker configuration and audio processing at the cutting edge. Looking forward to the project reaching completion.
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post #7 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Hat Channel





One of the things that concerned me the most was how to proceed with comunicating doors. Jeff's experience really helped out here.



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post #8 of 734 Old 03-25-2015, 11:21 PM
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Awesome project. Sub'd.

--
My latest theater build: Whisper Mountain Theater
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post #9 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 04:26 AM
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Sub'd. If it turns out half as good as that kitchen, it's gonna be a home theater for the ages.
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post #10 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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OSB installed for projector and surrounds. In retrospect, I should have done the entire first layer in OSB in case I decide to move things around.





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post #11 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 10:17 AM
 
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Sub'd. If it turns out half as good as that kitchen, it's gonna be a home theater for the ages.
couldnt agree more!!

sub'd as well! looks like you are coming along nicely!
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post #12 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Trinnov Altitude

Here is the heart and soul of the system.



Curt's expertise has already proven invaluable. He helped me evaluate the Reaction Audio CX-8s (Radian coaxes) with the Danley SM60Fs. We compared them together as a pair (using an older Trinnov system) after adjusting amplitude and phase responses. I was able to listen to them as a mono and stereo pair to see how they played together. The CX-8s match up well and this is with the aluminum diaphragms. I subsequently changed the order swapping out the aluminum for beryllium. The SM60Fs are rated at 99dB and the CX-8s are rated at 95.5dB.
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post #13 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 10:40 AM
 
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that is one beautiful looking processor!
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post #14 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 11:17 AM
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Subscribed - this level of planning and application of Remapping for a pragmatic purpose will be very educational for those of us planning our room around the capabilities of the Altitude in the future.
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Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification

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post #15 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 11:24 AM
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Mike, two comments;

1. I am no longer depressed about selling you my SM60's a few years back, this is where they needed to be!

2. Your design is eerily similar to the HT I plan to build after finishing construction of my house. I guess great mind think a like
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post #16 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikela View Post
OSB installed for projector and surrounds. In retrospect, I should have done the entire first layer in OSB in case I decide to move things around.





I'm digging that checker board ceiling u got going on there!

Awesome start. Can't wait to watch!
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post #17 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 11:43 AM
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Sub'd. If it turns out half as good as that kitchen, it's gonna be a home theater for the ages.
lol, I was thinking the same thing.


Mike, that's a lot of wooferage for a modest size room. Thumbs way up!


Is that your actual Altitude? I wasn't sure it was available yet.
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Design by Rives...dollars by The Bogg

Click for my build thread
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post #18 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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that is one beautiful looking processor!
Hi Brian,

Unfortunately, I won't get to hear it for awhile. While waiting for it to arrive, I had to switch gears and remodel the master bedroom/bath. Should be done in a couple of weeks. Theater has been double dry walled with green glue and floor done with rubber Serenity mat double OSB with green glue. It is now, however, a temporary storage area for the bedroom stuff.

Mike
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post #19 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Subscribed - this level of planning and application of Remapping for a pragmatic purpose will be very educational for those of us planning our room around the capabilities of the Altitude in the fture.
We will learn together. Did you get your unit yet?
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post #20 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post
Mike, two comments;

1. I am no longer depressed about selling you my SM60's a few years back, this is where they needed to be!

2. Your design is eerily similar to the HT I plan to build after finishing construction of my house. I guess great mind think a like
Hi forin,

Good to hear from you again. I bought these on a whim to hear them first hand and compare against my recently built Statements. I figured I could just resell them at a slight loss. Three years later I still have them. I am a little OCD and actually bought 3 more for the current theater thinking that there may have been subtle changes made over the years. The good news is if I decide to up the channel count, I can go 5 across the front.

Mike
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post #21 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mikela View Post
We will learn together. Did you get your unit yet?
Not yet, but we're on schedule more or less. But since I'm out of town on business this week, and we're needing to be out of our place for home remodeling we're doing during the second week of April, I'd be immensely happy to have it roughly around the middle of the month.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
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post #22 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 01:53 PM
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Nice! I was waiting to see this one.

Now... in the meantime, I'll take that Altitude off your hands until you get the whole project done. You know... for quality control purposes, of course.
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post #23 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 02:18 PM
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Mike, that's a lot of wooferage for a modest size room.
Keep in mind that his entire back wall is a giant absorber, which will eat up a significant amount of bass. If he had done a double bass array, he'd be using half his drivers to actively cancel bass produced by the other half. If he had placed his subs for mode cancelling, they'd be trying to produce bass from null locations. Whatever method you use to get smoother bass, you pay the price in SPL. No free lunch. Twelve 15-inch drivers might seem like a lot, but it won't be once the SBA is working.
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post #24 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 02:19 PM
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I'd argue it's not enough wooferage!
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post #25 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Keep in mind that his entire back wall is a giant absorber, which will eat up a significant amount of bass. If he had done a double bass array, he'd be using half his drivers to actively cancel bass produced by the other half. If he had placed his subs for mode cancelling, they'd be trying to produce bass from null locations. Whatever method you use to get smoother bass, you pay the price in SPL. No free lunch. Twelve 15-inch drivers might seem like a lot, but it won't be once the SBA is working.
True, however it is important to note that this generates a planar bass wave which doesn't roll off in intensity at the same rate as a spherical radiator. That said, one can never have enough wooferage.

Just another note: An SBA should produce approximately the same output as a DBA. It would, however, require twice as many drivers. The additional drivers would null the planar wave arriving at the rear wall using a delayed and inverted signal. The rear speakers do not contribute additional SPL at the MLP.

Last edited by mikela; 03-26-2015 at 02:54 PM.
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post #26 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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SBA Theory

A little more on SBA for those who may not be familiar:

The subwoofers (not necessarily IB) are spaced on the front wall in a way which allows them to recombine into a planar wave. The effective frequency is a function of distance between the drivers. If you were to imagine your floor, ceiling and walls were mirrors you would see an infinite wall of evenly spaced drivers extending vertically and horizontally. The planar wave effectively (at least in theory) eliminates the vertical and horizontal room modes leaving only the front to back mode to address. The bales of insulation are to absorb this longitudinal wave once it has passed through the audience. The DBA does the same thing by taking a delayed and inverted signal and launching a planar wave off the rear wall intended to cancel this wave as it approaches. Of course real world obstacles like chairs and people will diminish the effect to some degree.

Here is a waterfall chart of Nil's system from the SBA link I posted above:

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Last edited by mikela; 03-28-2015 at 01:16 PM.
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post #27 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 05:44 PM
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What an awesome project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikela View Post
Why is the screen wall so far from the front wall - for more absorption material?

Noah
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post #28 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Why is the screen wall so far from the front wall - for more absorption material?
Hi Noah,

It is about a foot or so off the baffle wall to properly align with the L/R SM60Fs which will be behind a false wall that is at a 45 degree angle to the screen and side walls. Also I didn't want it too close to the subwoofer openings.

Mike
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post #29 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 06:52 PM
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I meant the couple of feet between the subs and the front wall.

Also some questions about the Radian 8" coaxes if you don't mind - where did you get the Be diaphragms, how much did they cost, and do you think/know you can tell the difference for surround use?

Also the spec's I could find say their xmax is only .76 mm; do they hold up at high levels? What XO freq do you use?

Noah
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post #30 of 734 Old 03-26-2015, 06:59 PM
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Why curved? Whats the throw going to be?
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