The Wonderboy Theater -- small, but maximized space - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 98 Old 11-29-2015, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69glamboy View Post
Looks like voltage phone wiring. I wouldnt gut it unless you trace it out first. My home is from the 70's and I remember as a kid they had these deals to get " 10 extra phone jacks installed for $19.99"... The guy that had my house did it X three lol. I have more phone lines than romex . Looks like a mess behind those two little units, might be worth figuring out and leave what is still in use , if anything.
I think you're right. Did a few Google searches and found some similar things. I will definitely not touch this even though we don't use it. I think I'm more comfortable bending those pipes the wire is running in and out of. They're right in where my soffit is going in a couple spots.
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post #32 of 98 Old 11-30-2015, 05:16 AM
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I wonder if you unscrewed one and had a look at the backside. There might be a tag or label identifying the part.


I'd be concerned about the other cartridges leaking, so I would do a little more research.
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post #33 of 98 Old 11-30-2015, 05:45 AM
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its an antique phone line surge protector.

there is one for sale on ebay now for $20

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Western-Elect...item2ca45aeb63

other pictures:

https://www.google.com/search?q=anti...UICigE#imgrc=_

Bottom line if it is still in use you don't want to bury it behind drywall as that would make future replacement difficult, the newer ones are smaller and you could locate them near the service entrance in an accessible location

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post #34 of 98 Old 11-30-2015, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazzz View Post
I was thinking the same as both of you initially, but I can trace the grounding wire from where the water pipe comes in back to the electrical panel.

This wire definitely doesn't come to the electrical panel. I was able to trace it back to this bird's nest of low-voltage wires. And I'm again left with a mystery as I have no idea what these are. Maybe something connected to the phone lines? (we use VOIP so I can't test) Or an old HVAC wire that's no longer used? Does this look familiar to anyone?
I used to be in the wireless industry, so the phone wires in the picture raised my curiosity. I did some google searching.

That is a Lightning Arrester which is used to protect the telephone wiring inside the home from lightning. If lightning hits, the ground wire transfers the power surge to the earth.

That appears to be a Model 98A potentially manufactured by Western Electric.

Even though you are using VoIP, I wouldn't remove the braided ground wire if you have Plain Old Telephone System wires entering your home that are connected to external wires that could be hit by lightning.

And just realized BIG found it before I did.

My in progress build thread: The Salt Mine

Last edited by RedStripe88; 11-30-2015 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Fixed typo
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post #35 of 98 Old 11-30-2015, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Big and Red Stripe. You guys are good. That's exactly what that is. I spent at least 30 minutes on Google and couldn't find anything close to what you found. Low and behold it looks like I have close to $90 strapped up on that joist. I'm going to leave it right there.

I had yet another change in plans today after talking with my contractor. There's just too much going on back by my electric panels. There's a few pipe cleanouts, also about 5 or 6 shutoff valves that we'd really need to have access to, in addition to a hump on the ground where the concrete was poured over the drain pipe with another cleanout on the floor. Just too much going on and I wasn't willing to spend the money needed to clean it up. That's going to eat up about 30 inches from my plan. I think I'll have 16' or maybe 17' of room for the theater if I'm lucky.

This kind of brings me back to where I started. I think I'm going to have a tough time squeezing in a 2nd row. If I go by Big's rule of 6.5 feet for the 2nd row, that leaves 9.5'-10.5' from back of front row to screen. That's really tight. So either I get rid of the AT screen or go to a bar for the 2nd row. That would be disappointing.



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post #36 of 98 Old 12-01-2015, 05:08 AM
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Why hang onto that 3' wide closet? You could still lengthen the room, and simply have a door at the electrical panel.
With the riser, you could cut down a door in height, and you could simply do the whole back wall in fabric, to disguise
the door.


I doubt the surge protectors are doing much of anything, as the left hand one has leaked, and they do age.
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post #37 of 98 Old 12-01-2015, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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As the world turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Why hang onto that 3' wide closet? You could still lengthen the room, and simply have a door at the electrical panel.
With the riser, you could cut down a door in height, and you could simply do the whole back wall in fabric, to disguise
the door.


I doubt the surge protectors are doing much of anything, as the left hand one has leaked, and they do age.
Tedd - thanks for the urging and inspiration. It really helps.

Feels like a soap opera. This is what the jumble of wires and pipes looks like where my back wall will be.



There are about 6-7 shutoff valves, 4 cleanouts (one near the ceiling, two on the wall, and one in the floor), and a bunch of bad wiring. If only everyone had the foresite to think "someone might want to put a theater in this room someday." when this was built.

I gave up on things too easily yesterday. I read your post at work today and decided I hadn't exhausted all options. I met with my contractor again today to talk through some ideas and I think we have a solution. I think we'll be able to move the wall back at least 2 ft. Will probably end up not putting any drywall on the wall and just covering the back with a full fabric panel. I don't like the idea of a door so I think this works best. The fabric panels will just go up like pictures. If access is needed to anything back there, the panel(s) can just be removed to reveal everything. We'll put a soffit up to to box some things in. I think my contractor's ready to strangle me.

This should give me at least 18 feet in the room to work with or at least 16-17 feet in front of my screen wall.

HVAC guys are coming in Thursday to move the trunk up against the wall. Once that happens I'll be able to see the footprint of the room a little more clearly. I think I'll end up with 10-10.5' in width so at least 18x10' if not a little more. I'll take it.
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post #38 of 98 Old 12-08-2015, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Framing Questions

So my HVAC work is done. They did a good job and the price was less than I expected. My contractor started laying out some framing (nothing nailed yet, just friction fitted) just to give me an idea of how he'd like to place the wall. How close can I place a wall stud to the HVAC duct and still meet code? I'm assuming it can be flush. If you look at the picture below you can see there's a good 4-6" gap that I'd like to close as much as possible. I'm meeting with him tomorrow morning to review.

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post #39 of 98 Old 12-27-2015, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I'll throw up an update since it's been a while. Things are slowing moving along. The HVAC ducts were rerouted.



Because of width constraints and a 6-8" foundation footing that sticks out around the whole exterior wall, I opted to have it installed with the long side against the wall. This means no soffit on that side of the wall. I'll lose a little bit of symmetry, which I don't necessarily like, but it saves me a little space.

I also had a plumber come in to clear up the back wall of the mess of pipes and move some shutoff valves out of the room. With all the money that's going into this basement, I want to make it very easy for someone to shut off water in the house as easily as possible. I even had them install a "home run" shutoff valve on the main line coming in.




The cost of the HVAC and plumbing work was about half the cost of what I'm paying my contractor to do the whole basement. Absolutely unbelievable.

While we were waiting for some of this work to get done, my contractor started putting up lights. We went with the Commercial Electric T45 LEDs from Home Depot with Lutron Caseta dimmers.

I also decided on a new spot for my rack. My wife didn't like having a closet put in for this so I'm going back to my contractor's original recommendation -- under the stairs.


This means a really long run for all my wires. I also miscalculated how long of an HDMI cable I needed so I have to return to Monoprice. I also had to buy an extra 200 ft of speaker wire. At least this location will give me easy access on both the front and the back of my components.

I just put up my "Smurf cable" - although this came colored orange. I ordered from Elve Supply and it was great. I ordered it Dec. 23rd and it showed up on the 24th. Price was great too. I put in 2" tubes just in case. I'll probably only make a run to the projector and the LCR behind the screen.


My contractor is off during the holidays so I'll be down there running some cables and wires. When he gets back in we'll finish framing the walls. We need to figure out how to work that back corner near the electric panel. If we run the wall straight back it comes in front of the panel so we have to get creative.
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post #40 of 98 Old 03-05-2016, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Probably time for an update. Things are still moving along. Framing is mostly done and drywall is mostly up now. Dricore is also installed on the floor. Very glad I decided on Dricore. We had a major Nor' Easter about a week or so ago and got 2+ inches of rain. Had some water come in (more of a trickle than a flood) where I've rarely seen it and some went under the finished basement area. With Dricore on there everything was dry as a bone.

Still some framing work to be done at the back of the theater near the electrical panels and the stairs area going into the furnace room. That's a tricky section since the footer of the foundation sticks out so far around the bottom of the wall. Also, the electrical panel is so far over in the corner that we needed to build a little alcove in the corner so full access to the electrical panel is possible.

I ran speaker wire before drywall was put up. Pulling wire took a little bit more time than I was anticipating. I have a really long run around multiple angles so it was a little bit of a pain. I originally tried to pull each wire by itself, but that didn't work after about 3 or 4. Then I ended up pulling them all at the same time. Much better, but I had nine 50 ft wires running through my smurf tube so I needed help with someone pushing with me pulling. My wife and daughter reluctantly helped. I missed the opportunity to get the token wife-helping shot as I was getting that look many of you have probably seen ("are you seriously asking me to help with this"). When things weren't done in 5 minutes like I promised I had to beg to keep her down there to finish the job. I decided to wire for 4 Atmos speakers - just don't know when the Atmos speakers will get put in. I need to get the theater up and running before I even worry about that. All together I'm wired for 7.2.4. Will probably start with 5.1 or maybe 7.1 and then see how motivated I am to get the rest in.

I'm anxious to get things done so I can start on the theater treatments. That's when the contractor leaves and I need to start doing work. I'll be building the riser, columns, screen wall, screen, trim, and speakers/subs. Here's a bunch of pictures showing the progression over the last couple of months.
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post #41 of 98 Old 06-10-2016, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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You'd think I was building this basement with how long it's taken. Contractor is still working on things.

But I finally am able to start my part of things. I had a friend of mine with a pickup help me haul home two sheets of MDF so I can start my columns. I've never used this stuff before, but I can't believe how heavy it is. I was barely able to fit it down the stairs into the basement. After watching a few Youtube videos on how to cut MDF, I took a shot at it myself. I was able to cut the 4 sides of one of my left column. I still need to cut them down to height, which I'm not concerned about since both ends will be hidden. I'm a little worried about how they'll fit together. The cut was pretty straight, but not 100% perfect. I'll probably be doing a lot of touching up later. Then I'll need to cut out the hole in the front for my speakers.

Speaking of those, I picked up my L/R surrounds (Klipsch R-5650-S II) and 4 Polk RC-80i's for the Atmos speakers. The Polks are much bigger than I was expecting.

I also received my 3 Fusion 8 Alchemy LCRs. I've certainly got my work cut out for myself. I'll do a separate build thread for these over in the DIY audio forum.

Once the columns are out of the way, I'll start building the riser. Looking forward to getting things rolling. My goal is to hopefully be done by the fall (which means I won't be done until the end of the year... ha ha).




Klipsch R-5650-S II

Polk next to the Klipsch surround

Polk RC-80i - looks huge next to the Klipsch

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post #42 of 98 Old 06-13-2016, 10:19 AM
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Loving this thread, and it has been helpful in making me think about parts of my room. Good luck on the home stretch!
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post #43 of 98 Old 06-24-2016, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Made some more progress on my left column. It's now complete. I love theaters like Cinemar and Merrimont with all the columns and wish I had the room to do more, but after doing one I'm dreading making the one on the left side of the room. I don't know how those guys do it. Cutting the mdf wasn't too bad, but when I put them together there were some spots off a small fraction of an inch. Tough to get them exact. I also had to redo the nailers on the floor and ceiling twice because they weren't place exactly right. I got some Bondo to seal the edges and cover up the gaps and I have to say I will never use that stuff again. My whole house is filled with the worst chemical smell. I could fart in the backyard and my wife could smell it from the inside of the house so she's definitely going to kill me when she comes home to this. Overall I think this turned out nice. I had to put a board across the middle of the column to sit in between the speaker and the pole so the magnet on the speaker wouldn't be affected.

I have to say the Kreg jig came in very handy to build this. Very easy to use and worked really well.

Nailers on the bottom


Front cutout for speaker


Speaker fits properly:


Spacer to go between speaker and pole


Bondo on the edges to seal and also smooth over the gaps. Will never use this stuff again. I bet regular drywall compound will work just as good. I can't get the smell out of the house.





I also had a chance to wire up the front for the speakers. I've got a build thread on those, too. They're moving along well.




Speakers in the front.


I'll be away next week so no work until next weekend. Hoping to get the other column up next and then on to the riser.
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post #44 of 98 Old 07-06-2016, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I ended up getting DAP Plastic Wood to finish the first column. Bondo was just horrible. I should have read the instructions first before using in the house. It smelled up the whole house for a week. DAP worked just as good and was even easier to use.

Made some more progress over the weekend. Built the other speaker column. This one came out much nicer than the first one I built. Edges came out great and matched up nicely.

It's a good thing I live 5 minutes from Home Depot, Lowes, and Harbor Freight because I average about 5 trips on a typical Saturday.

I bought the wood for the riser and started laying things out and have a question hopefully you guys can help out with. I have an uneven hump on the concrete floor in the back of the room where the back of the riser goes. You can see it in the picture below. This is where the concrete was poured over the drain pipe headed to the sewer. It's about 3 inches above everything else. Any idea on how to frame the riser around this so it's level? I'm leery about cutting this part out. If it helps, I'm using 2x8s for the outside of the riser with the goal of the riser being about 8-10" once I layer on the OSB on top. Any help would be appreciated.


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post #45 of 98 Old 07-07-2016, 05:51 AM
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Either shim it and lift the whole thing up, or cut it out. The wood is strong enough to take a cut out that size and be fine. Most of the weight will fall on the rails if the are the same size. Now if your rails are of a different size to create a base trap, that might raise more questions that someone else is better suited at answering than myself.

My build thread: The Unprofessional Build
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post #46 of 98 Old 07-07-2016, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Either shim it and lift the whole thing up, or cut it out. The wood is strong enough to take a cut out that size and be fine. Most of the weight will fall on the rails if the are the same size. Now if your rails are of a different size to create a base trap, that might raise more questions that someone else is better suited at answering than myself.
So it looks like I have two options unless anyone else can come up with anything else.



Either one of them will require cutting the back board - option #1 to make the cutout and #2 to lower the height of the board so when I lift it up it's not higher than the other 3 sides. Not sure if I like either one of these.

Any other ideas out there?
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post #47 of 98 Old 07-08-2016, 02:37 AM
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I would go with option 1, just cut out the required material.

Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
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post #48 of 98 Old 07-08-2016, 05:48 AM
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Yeah, you don't really have a choice of what you would like to do without spending a crap ton to try and get that smoothed out. I'd go with option 1 so you don't have to raise the whole riser.

My build thread: The Unprofessional Build
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post #49 of 98 Old 07-08-2016, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm... I was actually thinking about option #2. I'm worried about issues with the wood holding up the weight if I cut into it like option #1 requires. Even though this will completely rest on the ground, it still worries me that with the weight of what will be on top, there will be issues. I don't want to have to rebuild after everything goes up in a few years because there a problem. Maybe I'm overthinking things.
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post #50 of 98 Old 07-08-2016, 06:42 PM
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Why can't you form it up and add self-leveling concrete or a self-leveling polymer to make a level pad where the riser goes? It seems like it would be way easier to simply pour some self-leveling compound in the area and let it dry than it would be to mess with the wood to shim around a hump.

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post #51 of 98 Old 07-08-2016, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Why can't you form it up and add self-leveling concrete or a self-leveling polymer to make a level pad where the riser goes? It seems like it would be way easier to simply pour some self-leveling compound in the area and let it dry than it would be to mess with the wood to shim around a hump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYuSOH0IP7k
That could be an option. Just not sure if I want have a small concrete platform in the back of the room for whatever potentially comes up to change things in the future. I'm leaning towards option #2. That's similar to how the wall behind it was framed on the bottom. It was just easy because it didn't need to hold that much weight.
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post #52 of 98 Old 07-09-2016, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there any standard rule for spacing of support beams running across the middle of a riser? Is it 16" like a wall or closer (maybe 1' intervals) because of the load it needs to bear? I've looked at a few of Big's riser builds and it seems like they're closer to 16" than 1'.

Edit: The picture is not my riser, of course. One of Bigs that I'm using as reference.

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post #53 of 98 Old 07-10-2016, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure if anyone actually reads this thing, but I have another question in case someone does. I always appreciate the help everyone provides on this forum.

My riser is coming together ok. I'm using 2x8s around the outside and 2x6s for the spans inside. For the hump in the back, I swapped out the 2x8 for a 2x6 and then used some 2x4s underneath to make sure it's firmly supported on the ground.

Question about level - facing the riser, it looks like I need to raise the front left up about 1/4", but the front right needs to come up about 1" to be level. Concerned should I be with fixing this? The OCD side of me says it's a big problem, but the other side says it's probably not going to be noticeable once everything is finished so it's not that big of a deal. What does everyone think?



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post #54 of 98 Old 07-10-2016, 06:08 PM
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I personally would do what it takes to get the riser dead level now. An out-of-level base might haunt you later as things get added to the top of it.
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post #55 of 98 Old 07-10-2016, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I personally would do what it takes to get the riser dead level now. An out-of-level base might haunt you later as things get added to the top of it.
Yes, you're definitely right. I figured it out. I had added some Dricore on the lower right to help with the back beam and it had thrown things off a little. I cut the Dricore out a bit to allow the beam to rest on the concrete floor underneath in that back corner and it leveled things off quite a bit. It didn't seem like it pushed things up that much much when I fit things together before nailing. I'm still about 1/8"- 1/4" off so I can just shim that to level. Crisis avoided.
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post #56 of 98 Old 07-11-2016, 10:51 AM
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Great job on the build! I will have a room very similar in size so I am anxious to see how your build comes out. Keep the updates coming!
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post #57 of 98 Old 07-13-2016, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Made some more progress on the riser. I've got my roofing felt down, all my stringers built and mid-span supports in. I started with BIG's recommendation of a 6.5" depth riser and then decided to pare it back by 6" to be able to move the front row back just a little. That should still give me 7" of open space when the back seats are fully laid out for someone to walk around -- seats are 65"s laying down. I've got 2x8s on the sides and front and I used a 2x6 in the back to frame over the hump. I've got 2x6s for the stringers. I used BIG's approach by adding mid-span pieces to prevent any bounce. The stringers are 1' apart. I also added some support pieces on the back and front the same way. This thing is solid. Probably way overbuilt.






I still need to add the steps on both sides of the front and the step on the side for the back row. You can kind of see the drainage pipe cleanout on the back so I need to design the step on the side with a hinge so I can flip it up if, for some reason, I need access to the cleanout. I also need to wire up the outlet in the front and lights on the steps. I'm very comfortable swapping out lighting fixtures or changing outlets, but I've never wired an outlet from the beginning so I'll need to do some reading on wiring so I don't screw something up. Anyone know a good site where I can read how to wire things up? - electric for dummies. Once that's done, I'll add 2 layers of 3/4" plywood on top bringing the heigth to about 9". I may also add a wood bullnose trim around the top.


Another couple of goodies showed up this week -- my zebrawood veneer for my Fusion 8s.


and guess what these are. I keep telling my wife that this is going to blow the house off the foundation. I have it wired up for another one in the back, but I'm going to wait to see how this sounds before buying another. My room is so small so I don't know if I'll need another. Would love to have the seats on the riser get some tactile feel.
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post #58 of 98 Old 08-08-2016, 02:57 PM
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WE need more status updates.

I am interested in your build.

As far as your riser... BigMouthDC uses allot of reference from Dennis Erskine over the years.. Take a look at this link, as your riser was similar to mine in regards to size. I used some of Big's design aspects, and followed this Dennis write up as much as i could.
Double layer 5/8" plywood with GG is the way to go. Make sure you fill it with insulation.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ne-2003-a.html

How the electrical go for your riser light/outlet?

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post #59 of 98 Old 08-20-2016, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
WE need more status updates.

I am interested in your build.

As far as your riser... BigMouthDC uses allot of reference from Dennis Erskine over the years.. Take a look at this link, as your riser was similar to mine in regards to size. I used some of Big's design aspects, and followed this Dennis write up as much as i could.
Double layer 5/8" plywood with GG is the way to go. Make sure you fill it with insulation.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ne-2003-a.html

How the electrical go for your riser light/outlet?
Sorry. I've been traveling for work and took a vacation with the family. Plus, I've been trying to figure out the electric for the riser. In the meantime a few things have been done. The whole space has been painted (at least above where the chair rail will go) except for the columns. Went with a grayish color from Benjamin Moore and black ceilings. Will be white on the bottom under the chair raile. I also added steps to the riser. I've decided on some LED strip ligthts from www.hitlights.com for the riser steps. I'll need to put an outlet inside the riser that's accessible with some kind of opening. I've definitely been reading all BIG's builds to see how to construct the riser. I definitely borrowed from his design. I'll be topping it with 2 layers of OSB, but don't have any GG so I'll be using roofing felt in between layers.

I'm also working on finishing the front sub. I bought the Marty Cube from DIY Soundgroup. I kind of got the veneer bug after doing my Alchemy's so I decided to veneer the sub, as well. I bought some oak and stained it using red mahogany from Minwax. Came out really nice. I just need to put some poly on it and then connect the driver. I also cut the wholes for the Atmos speakers and painted the grills. That's where I'm at. Once the sub is finished this weekend and my LEDs come, I'll hopefully be able to finish the riser. Here are the pics.









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post #60 of 98 Old 09-23-2016, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Working on the riser this weekend. Really hoping to finish it. I have a friend helping out with the trim so I need to get the top on the riser soon. I filled it with pink stuffing. I posted in the Riser forum, but might as well ask here. I do not need to fill the steps with pink stuff, right? Thought I read that somewhere, but can't find where I read it.

By the end of next week, I hope to have all the trim finished - chair rail is done, baseboards are part finished and still need to start the crown molding.







I ran into a problem with the baseboards that I need to work through. Because my floor (or at least the Dricore subfloor) is uneven I have a huge gap on the baseboards. You can see it here. On the left the baseboards touch the subfloor and on the right it's about 3/4 in up. Otherwise the boxes I'm adding will look uneven with the baseboard. Any suggestions on workarounds here or do I just live with it?

Gap on the far right.



Touching the floor on the left
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