CedarIron Cinema - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 224 Old 04-24-2015, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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CedarIron Cinema

Background
My wife and I are building a modest house in one of those cookie-cutter subdivisions with a massive builder, after shopping resales all over the Naperville/Aurora/Plainfield area. After moving to Chicago from Detroit metro 2 years back, sticker shock for both property values and property taxes hit us rather hard.

While the location we picked increases my commute time 100%, I really feel I’m getting a lot more house vs. the options in the resale market. I also get a brand new “clean slate” as it were, without worries about fixing anything upon moving in.

With that, hopefully we’ll be closing on the final build of this in early July.


That means that I’ll be using the moving truck for a few trips to Home Depot to start my project as soon as possible. I’ve been dreaming about having a true home theater since I was 16.

Here’s a basic idea of the basement room I’ll have, taken from another model with the same layout as mine. Luckily I was able to have the sump moved completely out of the room.


Immediately you’ll notice significant supply ductwork that the builder cannot do anything about. Darn!

I was able to snap a picture of the basement layout, but I could not get an actual copy from the builder. Strange. I circled the room I’ll be using in red.
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post #2 of 224 Old 04-24-2015, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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This allowed me to play around with SketchUp and learn a bunch about it, and here’s a rough idea of what I have to work with – about 18x13.


Soffit(s) – unfortunately the supplies to the upstairs run down the left side of my room, making a 100” x 12” soffit a necessity. Good Lord, that’s a lot of intrusion, and would make a symmetrical soffit ridiculous, as shown. So I’m wrestling with either making a considerably smaller complimentary soffit of 12x12”, or have none at all.


I plan on utilizing standard stud framing about the 3 concrete walls, and staggered stud for the entrance wall. Double drywall and the standard soundproofing tricks I’ve learned about reading here for the last few years will be utilized. I want to complete it for functionality first before starting with major interior design implementation.

I have but a rough idea of what the design will entail; lots of cedar, and the Sherwin-Williams color Iron Ore. I’ve always loved cedar wood, and the iron is more a nod toward what large majority of the remainder of the basement will entail – a gym focused on strength and powerlifting. That is where the idea to call it the CedarIron Cinema came from.

Finally, I do realize this will become a major time sink. However, the sense of urgency is high in getting the functionality of the room completed before December. Why December? I’ve noticed a remarkable trend with many of these builds; infants being born. Looks like we’ll be in that same boat!

For now, the clock is ticking until close. Cannot get here soon enough!
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post #3 of 224 Old 04-25-2015, 01:41 PM
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What's your seating requirement? You could rotate the theater 180 and have a single row of 4 that would have very good audio imaging. Then you could use the duct soffit as a detail of your stage.

It'll defnitely work the way you have it laid out, but it makes the ductwork a PITA. What's your ceiling height?

Tim
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post #4 of 224 Old 04-25-2015, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I had not considered the 180 degree rotation, but I will now, thank you!

Ceiling height is standard ~8', but we are both very short people.

@deewan 's setup is one of my inspirations, given his room is very similar in size. I'd like a twin loveseat setup for the main, and a decent bar with stools/chairs behind. We both enjoy eating while watching our shows, and then retiring to the comfortable main seats will be a treat.

I also like the ATS setup idea. My eyes are in the DIYSG's Fusion 8s for LCR, and probably a twin Stonehenge for the LFE I've only been able to dream about. I've lived in apartments, condos, or townhouses all my adult life, so the audio for this will be the biggest thing I'm looking forward to.
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post #5 of 224 Old 04-25-2015, 05:57 PM
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Great looking plans. I am honored that my theater is serving as some inspiration for your room. I am subscribed and looking forward to following along with your build!

BTW - I was in the Naperville/Aurora area yesterday and today helping out with some HT gear suggestions and selling some gear. Just got home.
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post #6 of 224 Old 04-26-2015, 05:41 AM
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+1 for Tim's suggestion of rotating the room ninety degrees.

Do you have your speakers? If not, then I'd look into a shallow baffle wall
for the front wall. I'd eat up about 8" of room depth but allow for a DIY
acoustically transparent screen.


My "go to" design for a room like yours is the HVAC gets framed in and
becomes a design detail. An AT screen disguises some of the HVAC depth.
Fabric walls all around, can hide in wall surround speakers and acoustical
treatments. The sump pump could be hidden by putting the seating on a shallow
riser, and the riser could have some flex to it, for tactile feedback. A gasketed hatch
would provide sump pump access. The lower piping would need to be rebuilt.


The av rack could go right outside the entry door, and you also could build in a
substantial IB sub in that side wall depth by the furnace.


I also am a fan of giving the "black cave" treatment to smaller rooms, and then bringing
some WOW factor by zoned lighting with a lighting controller, and soffiting. My latest
project is a digital movie poster light box (using a 42" hdtv) for outside the room. All to
add some bling to a performance driven "cave".
bling to a performance driven "cave"
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post #7 of 224 Old 04-26-2015, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post
What's your seating requirement? You could rotate the theater 180 and have a single row of 4 that would have very good audio imaging. Then you could use the duct soffit as a detail of your stage.

It'll defnitely work the way you have it laid out, but it makes the ductwork a PITA. What's your ceiling height?

Tim
If you did rotate the room, less the baffle wall you'd have ~13 feet of depth.

If you wanted a bar behind a single row of seats your viewing distance would be 9' at most, which would put your screen width (not diagonal) at about 108".

If you're good with that I would plot the viewing angle in sketchup and see if it meets the recommended angle.

Did you have an absolute minimum size screen? Are you planning 16:9 or 2.35:1?

Tim
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post #8 of 224 Old 04-26-2015, 06:25 AM
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You could explore some higher design options that could turn the room's
flaws into strengths. Such as that deep front soffit could be acoustically
treated to deal with first reflections off the ceiling.


(And being a D-Box owner, dealing with the sump pump, would mean
embedding the D-Box platform in the riser, if that were my space.)


That depth created by the furnace could be put to work in many ways. And
with the luxury of room width means you could pull the end wall off the basement
wall and then embed DIY subs in the deeper wall depth.
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post #9 of 224 Old 04-26-2015, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all. Nothing is in stone yet as I'm not even moved into the place yet.

The sump is in another room; builders were nice enough to omit it entirely from my room per my request.

I have yet to purchase anything as far as equipment, save for my Yammy receiver which may be upgraded later, and a Crown XLS1500. I have no absolute size requirements yet for the screen. I do have my eyes on the Fusion 8's, and would love to support Erich with this labor of love, but again nothing is set in stone.

The very first thing I'm doing will be adding double drywall/Green Glue in between the floor joists. The model home basement I posted above did not have nails poking through the subfloor, so I'm really hoping mine won't either. I'll also be adding Dynamat or something of the like to the sheet metal portions of the duct before the creation of the soffit.

You guys have my head spinning now thinking about the options. Love it!
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post #10 of 224 Old 04-26-2015, 10:04 AM
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Nice to have the sump pump elsewhere.


The front most HAVC could be rebuilt to a wider/shallower profile and
the soffting become a two step affair. Something I did in my narrow room,
to get symmetrical soffits. You also might be able to reroute that front
HVAC over the entry, through the rear soffit, and up into the joist cavity.


So maybe there's nothing the builder will do for you, but that's doesn't mean
nothing can be done...


If the single row, rotated room has merit for you, then you might want to check out:
http://www.artinstall.ru/en/


I also like this room as a single row option, less the light colored side walls. No side soffits but
still has some lighting pop to add to a performance driven style of room.


You might also want to research "backer boxes" for any recessed lighting in the 10" joist area.
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post #11 of 224 Old 05-02-2015, 03:11 PM
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CedarIron Cinema

When do you close on the house. I hope we can meet at my GTG meet. I can tell you all the mistakes I made lol. Your room is pretty close to the size of mine which is narrow in the front like mine maybe you can see what would work by seeing it in person. What subs have you thought of for your room.

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post #12 of 224 Old 05-03-2015, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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We have an official closing date of June 25th now; today we stopped at the build and introduced ourselves to our new neighbors. Pretty excited!

For subs I'm leaning toward a duo of Stonehenge enclosures with either SI-18s or UM-18s. I may also experiment with various little 8s I have built up a collection of over the years.

Sadly as I mentioned in the GTG thread, I'll be heading out of town for the weekend right after we close. I'd like to be able to at least drop off some building supplies at the house before we depart, but it could be a challenge. Also difficult as I don't own a truck!

Immediately after we move in I'll get to enjoy my current 7.1 setup so much more on the main floor. Reason being is we'll no longer be sharing walls with neighbors (townhome), and I've never really been able to apply some liberal force the the volume knob. That still won't prevent me from working on my dedicated room, however.
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post #13 of 224 Old 05-06-2015, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I had my pre-drywall meeting today. I have to say I'm a bit perturbed.


This is my actual basement room; think I got royally screwed with this duct.


72" inches from the wall to the front edge of the far duct. My gosh!


At least I'm able to confirm one good thing about my floorboards:


So at this point it does kinda bode toward rotating my initial plan 90 degrees. I'm sure gonna have fun building soffits for this one. Would I be looking for a short-throw projector then?
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post #14 of 224 Old 05-06-2015, 05:03 PM
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Looks like that portion of the duct is only serving two returns (supplies?). You could drop those two lines below the joists, elbow over towards the furnace and connect closer (or on the other side) of the furnace.

Good thing is that it's all round pipe; you can probably pick up all the pieces you need from HD or Lowes.

You'll be soffiting that all anyway (I assume).

Then just whack off that piece of the trunk.

Tim
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post #15 of 224 Old 05-06-2015, 05:59 PM
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Pre-drywall huh.....Ugh I have never had good luck with builders.
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post #16 of 224 Old 05-06-2015, 06:19 PM
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Like Tim says, that section of ductwork can be reworked. The end cap could be carefully removed, and then reinstalled
when you cut back that trunk.
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post #17 of 224 Old 05-06-2015, 06:51 PM
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For duct work call T.R miller out here in plainfield he can make any piece for you they have a sheet metal fab shop that one guy works in the rest are techs and installers. I went through them for my basement for the third furnace. They are reasonable in prices to.
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post #18 of 224 Old 05-07-2015, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCJetta View Post
This is my actual basement room; think I got royally screwed with this duct.

been there man - feel your pain - I am going to end up spending as much to move ducts as I am to build my theater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
For duct work call T.R miller out here in plainfield he can make any piece for you they have a sheet metal fab shop that one guy works in the rest are techs and installers. I went through them for my basement for the third furnace. They are reasonable in prices to.
will they drive out to NWI?
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post #19 of 224 Old 05-07-2015, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Just bought some of this B-Stock for pretty much half price! One of those sorta impulse buys, but sorta not as I've been eyeing it for months as a deadener for the duct.


Granted it's another item I'll have to move once we close, but at the price I cannot complain.

Thanks @eng-399 , I'll give those guys a call once things get settled!

While I still have another 7 weeks or so, I can continue to dream and learn. The Theater for Hobbits build caught my eye a while back and intrigues me. Perhaps I won't use the entire space for the theater, and have more basement for other man-cave things. Hmmm... The accountant in me also likes the idea of lower build costs, which would leave more for meathead and/or gearhead toys in the future.
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post #20 of 224 Old 05-07-2015, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
been there man - feel your pain - I am going to end up spending as much to move ducts as I am to build my theater.



will they drive out to NWI?
I'm sure they will I'll grab there phone number and pm you later with it . Mike
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post #21 of 224 Old 06-03-2015, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Our closing date is June 25th. Impatience is one of my weaknesses, and it is being tested!

Probably done with the house pictures for now. It'll be a great place to stay for a few years, or for a longer while depending on what life throws at us.

Here's a left/right wall design that came to me one evening while trying to fall asleep. Cedar fence pickets or similar board, a rustic grey iron color base, and some sort of deep red for the triangular sound treatments. No real measurements yet until I can move in and calculated first reflections, but an idea for now at least. I'm almost 100% on cutting the room down to a 13x14 cozy size, as it will only be the two (baby arrives in December) of us for a while. Hopefully that will help expedite the build process so I can start enjoying it before the family increase.

Thoughts?
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post #22 of 224 Old 06-03-2015, 06:23 PM
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I really like the design and color combo. Instead of fence pickets you may want to look at cedar siding, it might have a tongue and groove but you could rip that off with a table saw. On my monitor the grey and red fabric looks like GOM FR701 medium gray and Claret. You can order free samples at the Guilford of Maine website.
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post #23 of 224 Old 06-09-2015, 08:10 AM
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Hey JC house is looking great I like the design to. I bet your excited. I went to the little guys HT store this weekend here a pic of the panel in one of there rooms with a v shape.

It looks like yours is going to cover the wall this was a little panel they had up on the wall...another place to visit to get inspired for your room is kole audio in frankfort il. (Lagrange road and rt 30). They have several ht rooms in there business that's really cool to see.

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post #24 of 224 Old 06-16-2015, 01:05 PM
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post #25 of 224 Old 06-16-2015, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for checking in Mike! This Friday morning is our pre-closing walk-through. Hopefully the place survived the last week of baseball sized hail, tornados, and 6"+ of rain, but I haven't been by in a few weeks. I am purchasing flood insurance, but it won't actually take effect until 30 days after we close. Fingers crossed.

My credit cards have some seriously juicy cash-back offers right now, and I know H-D will be putting several items on sale for Father's Day weekend. I'll be grabbing 70 or so sheets of this, and some other things and most likely having it delivered curbside.



Now, while it is true I like to move some heavy iron around, I'm looking forward to hiring some fellows to perform the carrying of it down to my basement for me. Neighbors have all sorts of leads and contacts of folks I can hire for this sort of feat.

From there, I can start immediately on affixing DD/GG to the floor joists. Then I can also assess what I will do with the sheet metal issue, and what my options will be.

Of course, I still have to actually move in... hahaha.

Also very much looking forward to your GTG on Saturday!
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post #26 of 224 Old 06-16-2015, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
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all over the Naperville/Aurora/Plainfield area
Welcome to the neighborhood! Subscribing to your thread.

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After moving to Chicago from Detroit metro 2 years back
Go Tigers! I grew up in Ann Arbor but have lived in the Chicago area for 15 years.

OK, now to go read your thread.
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post #27 of 224 Old 06-16-2015, 02:33 PM
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Looking forward to the gtg to! When you move in take some pictures of the sheet metal. Maybe I can give you a hand. I did all mine in my basement. I use to be an hvac installer 15 years ago. We can talk more about it to at the gtg meet to.
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post #28 of 224 Old 06-19-2015, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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This morning was my pre-closing walk-through, just a week out from closing. I was able to take a few more measurements and get a better idea of what I'm getting myself in to. I think despite the duct work being an interfering pain in the ***, I can make something work decently. Opinions?

First the front left corner, showing the main supply line about 60" off from the rear wall. If the rear wall is what I incorporate the screen in to, is that still manageable in terms of an AT screen ~ 100" and DIY Soundgroup LCRs? What are some creative ideas you guys have had to leave access to drain areas and still maintain sound proofing?


Rear left wall. More friggen PVC drains to deal with. 64" out from the wall, but not nearly the drop-down depth the duct has. Another access point to consider.


My rear wall, for which the loveseat/couch will be backed up to. I'll plug the window for sound proofing, but I'd still like to have it easily removable for if I go to market this room as a potential bedroom. I'm also considering brick for the rear wall.


The right wall does not yet exist of course. Where the huge return line starts to interfere still gives me about 14' 10" of room width, which I think will be plenty for my application.

And continuing around full circle, front right corner-to-be. My dedicated circuit, for now. I even have a supply vent I may consider using, or I may plug it entirely and using a portable AC system instead.


One more week to close!
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post #29 of 224 Old 06-19-2015, 04:32 PM
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I remember those days of basically everything in the way of the planned HT room one by one everything will be sorted out. When I first started my room the main pvc drain ran right down the middle of of the room me and buddy moved it to the wall and the main return for the 2nd furnace was in the middle to. Bring the camera so we can take a took tomorrow at the meet I'm sure you have a lot more pictures of what you're posting Im interested in seeing the ductwork to see how it can be worked around. Congrats on the your new house almost done!!!! Very exciting news!!!
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post #30 of 224 Old 06-25-2015, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCJetta View Post
Our closing date is June 25th. Impatience is one of my weaknesses, and it is being tested!


Did you close today?

If so CONGRATULATIONS and let the HT BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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