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post #1 of 410 Old 06-05-2015, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Another Build Thread with no name!

Well I've been putting this off for long enough. Time for a build thread so you guys can catch all my boo boos hopefully before I make them! I'll try and post as many pictures as possible but I'll be moving fast as I'm acting as the General contractor on my house at the same time.

EDIT- Build time was about 3 weeks, evenings after works, weekends. I'd guess about 200 hrs. Prior planning and lots and lots of time here pays off!

This is my 2nd Dedicated HT. The first is below and I've missed the Heck out of it as we sold that house last summer.

So here's the old room...






I loved that room.. It's been a long year since I've seen it....or had a room.."insert slow sad painful music...


Enough mourning.. time for the new build!!

We spent a year designing our house and broke ground in January and we are about 6 weeks from finishing the construction. I'm the general Contractor and doing some myself.. I'm slow and busy as I've ever been with every spare moment dealing with subs while doing a lot myself. I'm the painter, part electrician, speaker system guy, alarm guy, coordinator, stain floor guy, hang fans guy, paint kitchen cabinet guy, install door knob guy and HT designer installer.. and everything else. I've got multiple personalities right now. When it's done I plan to go into a coma for a while.

Room info

On to the new room. 21'6" deep, 16' wide 10'4" ceiling on the first row, 9' on the 2nd. 16" riser. There's an adjacent entry room that's around 10'x13' with a ramp that levels off to the rear row level and brings you to the equipment and equipment closet. The room is upstairs, spray foam insulation under it, and on every wall around it. The screen wall is really the only one that adjoins to the living areas and it's staggered stud with open cell spray foam, r13, and 1/2 and 5/8 sheetrock (2 layers) and solid as a rock.

Staggered studs are dirt cheap and IMO gets you very close to a room within a room. So close that 10db below reference and You'd never know anyone was even in the HT.

If anyone is listening louder than -10db it's me. We usually listen -15 or lower.

The window on the back wall was a code requirement. It''ll be hidden behind a hinged acoustic panel.

I've been researching and buying gear along the way.

COST

I'll also be updating prices as I go. Update... While trying to finish the house I missed some of the little construction prices, trim here and there. For an overall estimate, the room post sheetrock was around $1800. This includes all fabric, paint, wood, Sheetrock for baffle wall, the screen, ductboard (absorption panels), solid core door, hollow core for closet, crown, base, chair rail etc.

That price is room only it doesn't include speakers, projector, amps, AVR or carpet.

The cost for everything including carpet is right around $11,000. Well, still need seating, gotta finish the house first!


Mains

QSC 2150... not clones as these have the custom long throw woofers. Found them NIB for $450 each. ~$2k shipped.




Update! Changed to JBL 3677 (my 2nd time having them). The QSC's height was causing issues with the first row. Had I lowered them In the baffle wall it probably would have been fine.

3 JBL 3677 -$1725 shipped.


Here's my review thread the first time I owned the 3677.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...e-arrived.html

Another update.. . Because I usually sit in the back row the mains behind the screen were too close and I needed to flank the screen. I went with HTM-12s and now have proper width in the back row.

IMPORTANT NOTE!! The recommended spacing for mains is 44-60 degrees. To have mains behind the screen requires a huge screen and what almost everyone would consider an uncomfortable viewing angle. Even the minimum 44 degree spacing would require a screen viewing angle over 50 degrees. This is why we always see professional high end room designs having mains flank the screen. When you have mains too close together the image collapses and you get an audible gap as you pan from main to surround. I will say from my back row having them flank the screen is a thousand % improvement in imaging and spaciousness and a seamless transition to the surrounds.

Link to the upgrade
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post54249937




Surrounds, rears, atmos

All hidden in columns or flush to ceiling (Atmos)

Volt 10 LX.. I've been demoing a pair in my living room as mains for a few months ... absolutely love them.
Ten-volt 10lx ....$1516. Dual surrounds, rears and 4 Atmos.

ATMOS will be IB style crossed at 80hz.

Subs

4 corner loaded SI HT18 tuned to 17hz 12 cube boxes, all will be hidden. Corner locations were decided due to research and being a recommended location from research done by Harmon and others on multiple subs for 4 subs in room.

Here's some info on multiple subs ..skip to the 1 hour mark.

And the Harmon study
https://www.harman.com/sites/default...s/multsubs.pdf

4 SI 18s....$700
(enclosure) 8 sheet of MDF and misc (glue, insulation etc) ...$350

Amps

Behringer inuke DSP3000

$280

Update# upgraded to a inuke NU4 6000 and a mini DSP HD2x4. I needed to be able to add delay between my two rear subs as only the front subs were naturally in phase.

I shouldn't need but 150watts each to hit 120db so I'm trying one amp. (This has been confirmed and reference levels are a cake walk) I'll put the fronts on one channel the rears on the other. Hopefully I can get phase and everything aligned well. If I need I'll add a 2nd amp.

QSC 1644 DCA (Digital Cinema Amp) 4 channels.. 400 @ 4ohms.

$400

Update! Sold the QCS and bought an Emotiva A700 @$509 shipped during a sale. The system is so sensitive the QSC was way overkill and now I still barely work the Emotiva even at reference but have all the bed channels on one amp.

AVR

Marants 7009

$1199 (accessories4less)

Projector

Epson 5030ub....#update # nope on the Epson..swapping for a Sony 55es

$2100 (plus 2 free glasses and spare lamp)

##update ## The Epson has a great picture, fantastic at 168". Of course I need high mode for this size and the fan is horribly loud in high even with a hush box (vents out the front so the hush box isn't very effective), What's the point of a low noise floor with this racket going on? A buddy confirmed this on his 5030ub (he normally runs in low) So I sold it and I'm going with the Sony 40es.

##update ## found a great deal on a Sony 55es for $1900 with 1000 hrs on it, spare lamp and a chief mount... so scratch the 40.

Screen

165" seymour XD Acoustic screen 16:9
Around $320 for all materials

This will give me the following viewing angles in each row.
@12' =53 degrees
@17' =39 degrees




Of course that's based on scope so here's Cedia's recommendation for 16:9.. the back row is pretty much at the recommended size. We find it perfect.

http://www.cedia.org/blog/how-to-sel...-for-your-room

THX (yes, they do more than just create seat-rattling trailers) previously recommended a 36-degree optimal viewing angle for TVs, and 40 degrees for home theaters with projection screens. But with the advent of 3D in the home, THX has started suggesting 40 degrees for all home viewing.

Power

15 amps for lights and projector
20 amps for amplifiers
20 amps for AVR, Bluray etc.

Acoustics

I'll be using 1.5" ductboard (4x10 sheet is $43) to treat the side walls, 1" on the front and baffle wall and 2" rockwool on the back wall as a little aluminum tape in strips to liven up the back up a little.



http://www.certainteed.com/products/...ulation/317386

6- 4x10 sheets of 1" certainteed Ultra ...$192 ($32 per 4'x10' sheet)
4- 4x10 sheets of 1.5" certainteed Ultra..$171 ($42.75 per 4'x10' sheet)
2 2x4 rockwool panels I already had from my last build.

Acoustic covering

DMD acoustic material.
25 yards of Burgundy. $252.70 shipped.

Night Sky Mural DIY star field. I have outlets along the box ceiling on all four sides for hidden black lights that work off of a switch.

Seating
Seatcraft Sonoma in a row of 4 with love and a row of 3. $4200 Shipped.http://4seating.com/seatcraft-theate...ia-chairs.html


Carpet
It took me months to finally pick a carpet. I don't like busy movie style carpet. I wanted comfortable carpet that had a slight commercial look and didn't cost a fortune. I have to say I couldn't be happier. The carpet has fibers of dark grey, light grey, and black.

Lowe's had like $90 install price as well, spanked all the other bids.






My high end room plan!






This window will be hidden behind a hinged acoustic panel.


Columns flank the entrance with a sub alcove in the corner.


Boxes for the HT18s.


170" with ambient light and the 5030ub in low and THX mode.


Entrance to Foyer and ramp that levels off to the back riser.







Additional upgrades.


DIY Light Boxes

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post51689561

Update ...DIY light boxes... I need a wide lens so I can get the cool entire room shots.
















I've also added a Harmony Ultimate which disappeared so I bought an Elite. Actually like the Ultimate better but both do the job extremely well.
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post #2 of 410 Old 06-10-2015, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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We're almost done painting the house and then we have to finish staining the floors and sealing. Hopefully then I'll have a little time to build the stage, frame out the baffle wall and columns.

I'm having a hard time choosing colors for the fabric above the wainscoting. I'm leaning towards Burgundy but the wife isn't sure she like's more of a dark red. DMD doesn't have a dark red and GOM is 2x the price.

http://www.acoustimac.com/dmd-acoustic-fabric/

So whatever fabric I chose with black wainscoting and columns. Carpet is another issue. I've got like 15 samples of commercial carpet...I'm no interior designer to say the least. I like the colors of the the white Oaks and Cinemar theaters.
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post #3 of 410 Old 06-10-2015, 02:33 PM
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Will be fun to watch this come together. Keep up the good work.

BTW, if you want to see the DMD burgundy fabric in action, look at the last few posts of my build thread below (I'm nearing completion, and just started doing fabric over the last week). It's gorgeous, BTW, and the DMD fabric is great to work with. It stretches really nicely and has a nice feel on the textured side...and it's pretty lightweight.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

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My latest theater build: Whisper Mountain Theater
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post #4 of 410 Old 06-10-2015, 04:06 PM
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The room is coming together I like the rounded corners on the drywall to looks like your kids are going to love the room to! Those boxes you built turned out great. I had the hardest time with carpet to we went to 4 carpet stores before we found the right sample. Please keep posting pictures of your progress. One more thing my screen frame barely fit through my basement door with a hard 180 turn is your screen frame going to make the turn into your room. It looks tight in your drawing.

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post #5 of 410 Old 06-10-2015, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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That's great to hear about the burgundy. I've had there samples for a few months as well as gom and some acoustic suede. I really think I like the burgundy, it's not something I would have though i liked but the sample looks really nice and I keep going back to it. I'll have to look at your build and show my wife.

As for the screen, I didn't think about that. I'll probably build it in theaters. . I think I could make the turns but why chance it.


It's going to be a slow build until we move in the house. Today we painted more and I installed the 2x6s for my garage doors to attach to. I need like 10 clones of myself. I may not have it all finished when we move in but I have to have a finished room. I'll have to get the stage in for the carpet and the columns that flank the entrance
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post #6 of 410 Old 06-10-2015, 07:20 PM
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One mistake I made with my stage were my screen sits on along with my lcr was done with 2 by 10's and the curved bottom of that stage one step down was built with 2 buy 4's. When it was time to carpet the room the carpet guys wanted to shoot me lol they had a really hard time with the lip of the stage because there was no room to get there staple gun in there to staple the carpet You probably already know that but if I could do mine over I would of used a 2 by 6 or bigger. The picture of your seat riser looks like it has a lip on it. Do you plan on putting rgb led lights under the lip. That would look really cool!
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post #7 of 410 Old 06-10-2015, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea the lip will have rope lights installed under it. As for the stage I plan on 2x12 and 2x6 for lower section. My stage sits up 16" so I think a 12" riser should work well, The screen should be about 8" above the riser.
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post #8 of 410 Old 06-11-2015, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billwil View Post
Will be fun to watch this come together. Keep up the good work.

BTW, if you want to see the DMD burgundy fabric in action, look at the last few posts of my build thread below (I'm nearing completion, and just started doing fabric over the last week). It's gorgeous, BTW, and the DMD fabric is great to work with. It stretches really nicely and has a nice feel on the textured side...and it's pretty lightweight.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
I really love your room. The colors and detail is coming together great! 2 things that stick out...I do like the look of the fabric.. and damn I wish I had framed the columns and had them sheetrocked like you did. I though about it but seeing so many on here being MDF I decided against it...but it would be nice to have those done and yours turned out great.

I also really like the way you kept the chair rail the same height on the riser, the height also looks perfect, better IMO than being higher. I think you posted the link on chair rail height when I asked on another thread. And it was right 28-30" does look great, and it definitely puts the panels low enough to catch the reflections.

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post #9 of 410 Old 06-11-2015, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been looking at riser designs. I'll be going with something like below only using 2x12s and 2x6s. I'm wondering if I should overhang a lip with the plywood or can it be flush with the frame. It'll be all carpet and I know on my staircase the installers needed a lip to staple to.
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post #10 of 410 Old 06-11-2015, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post
I've been looking at riser designs. I'll be going with something like below only using 2x12s and 2x6s. I'm wondering if I should overhang a lip with the plywood or can it be flush with the frame. It'll be all carpet and I know on my staircase the installers needed a lip to staple to.

The carpet can be flush but if you do that your not going to be able to put those rgb led lighting strips underneath it with no lip but at the same time it probably would be distracting when watching a movie. But if you did do that and had a party at your house and had all the lights on underneath all your risers and stage you would get the wow factor from friends and family over that night... I like your sample picture of the stage I would pick that one or a design based off it. Very exciting stuff!!!
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post #11 of 410 Old 06-11-2015, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Dang I meant front stage lip not riser. I'm definitely doing the riser lip. I was curious about the front stage if you guys had issues with carpet being wrapped on a curved stage without a lip to staple the carpet to underneath the lip.
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OK...Baffle wall. I've seen Big's minimalist approach, however I'd like to go with a baffle wall. Can the wall just be framed out and lined with rigid ductboard 703 and covered in fabric or should I cut OSB to fit around everything and put the 703 board on it making the finish product flush with the speakers?

After some research I've seen some references to angling the R/L sections slightly so the mains can image better... not sure but I like the idea.

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Subscribed!

Put me in the "you might end up wanting more subwoofer amplifier power" column
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I never really learned your screen name here, I know you much better from Facebook.

Glad to see the progress! Subbed.
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You want help embed those picture attachments ?
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On the front stage lip...when they showed up to do the estimate for my carpet, the guy said I should have a lip around the stage....I had forgotten that he said that until they showed up to do the install, haha. I ended up scavenging a strip of wood and installing it real quick before they started.
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post #18 of 410 Old 06-20-2015, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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You want help embed those picture attachments ?
You lost me at embed... Lol. I uploaded them and they show up on my pc but not on my phone. I haven't posted pics in years since my jbl 3677 thread and back then I used image Shack.
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On the front stage lip...when they showed up to do the estimate for my carpet, the guy said I should have a lip around the stage....I had forgotten that he said that until they showed up to do the install, haha. I ended up scavenging a strip of wood and installing it real quick before they started.
Hmmm.... I've had like 5 estimates done. They all get to the theater and start scratching their heads. I asked that they go up and over with a continuous piece. And wrapping the lip where the steps are... Of course they'll have to cut and wrap under the lip. Definitely something to ask about just to be sure.. Thanks. Of course I've been looking at commercial carpets. Some will sections will be glued down (steps, verticals sections of riser) , the rest will have padding.
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post #20 of 410 Old 06-25-2015, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I've only put in maybe 5 hours of work on the theater. This weekend we finished staining/sealing floors, and this week after work I've had to move a shower drain, install some door locks/handles, finish painting and work upstairs in the theater when I could. I've been trying to get things done so my trim and shower guys can get in and do their thing.

The riser isn't that deep. The face of the baffle wall will be 18" from the back wall. The edge of the stage will stick out 3" from the baffle wall. I'm also using the stage as a bass trap. The edges of the riser are off the wall 1" so I can slide duct liner between the wall and riser. I should get the riser finished today and hopefully start on the wall.

2000 sq' of Floors stained and sealed, I'm so freaking tired of moping staining moping and painting and more moping and more painting.

You can see the Theater entrance upstairs to the right of the balcony area.


stage taking shape.


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Ok- For the pictures embed thing you need to use the old forum code.

The image tags are [img] and [/img]. These are basically the same tags for all forums FYI.

If you take a URL link to a photo and add [IMG] before and [/IMG] after it will embed it, and it does it with a proper size.

So for instance you can take your photo above ^ and open it in a new browser tab or window/browser and copy the address:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...4&d=1435238291

Then you add the image tags:

[img] + https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...4&d=1435238291 [/img]

If you remove the "+" and spaces you get this:




Huge bonus for people on tablets and phones- no one wants to click all those tabs to see photos.
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post #22 of 410 Old 06-25-2015, 07:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post
Well I've only put in maybe 5 hours of work on the theater. This weekend we finished staining/sealing floors, and this week after work I've had to move a shower drain, install some door locks/handles, finish painting and work upstairs in the theater when I could. I've been trying to get things done so my trim and shower guys can get in and do their thing.

The riser isn't that deep. The face of the baffle wall will be 18" from the back wall. The edge of the stage will stick out 3" from the baffle wall. I'm also using the stage as a bass trap. The edges of the riser are off the wall 1" so I can slide duct liner between the wall and riser. I should get the riser finished today and hopefully start on the wall.







^^^^




If you want help with others let me know, or you can just go back and edit them.

I like how you can do this, and type above and below the pictures. Give the thread posts a nice flow and explanation. Pictures make all threads better.
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post #23 of 410 Old 06-25-2015, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a thousand times...I wondered how everyone was adding text between pics!
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post #24 of 410 Old 06-25-2015, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
Subscribed!

Put me in the "you might end up wanting more subwoofer amplifier power" column
Yeah, that could be the case. Theoretically I should hit 123db factoring in corner loading or all 4 subs. I'll have to put that to the test but adding a 2nd inuke is a possibility.
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post #25 of 410 Old 06-26-2015, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Got another 3 hours in last night. All I have left to do is fill with fluffy, lay down a ton of constructions adhesive and nail down, and then cut holes so It'll become a bass trap. I'll finish that after work and begin on the baffle wall.

My order of 1.5" ductboard will be ready for pickup so I'll go get that and some 1" for the front and baffle wall today as well so I can treat the wall before the baffle wall goes up.

FWIW I just noticed my phone was on 1M picture quality. I turned it up to 4M so hopefully the upcoming pics will be better than the sucky ones thus far.



Thanks Jesse for the advice on the Lip, even if the carpet guys don't need a lip (which as you said the probably do) I like the way it looks with it.



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Last edited by cdy2179; 06-26-2015 at 05:10 AM.
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post #26 of 410 Old 06-26-2015, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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OK guys... I have a bass trap question...the wheels are turning...may be a bad thing.... Tonight I will stuff and seal up the stage. I want to cut vents into so I can use it as a bass trap. The subs will sit on the stage in the corners but every thing the width of the screen is fair game as the mains will be well above the floor of the stage. I'm thinking of cutting a slot 4" wide the length of the screen along the front wall. Does this sound OK? I don't need vent covers as this will be hidden behind the baffle wall.

Of course I have a baffle wall going in as well, sheetrock will go stage to ceiling but stopping short 2' from each side wall for the subs. I could leave the bottom 1' of the baffle wall open (no sheetrock) to allow the bass to freely get into the corner of the front wall and stage and into the vents I cut into the stage, heck I can run the insulation over that opening in the baffle wall as well, and it would also absorb as the there and back (through insulation on baffle wall to front wall and reflected back through the baffle wall) distance is 3 feet or so.

I hope I'm not confusing anyone. I don't think I've ever heard of any negative issues caused by making a bass trap so even if it didn't work well it cant hurt ...right?
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post #27 of 410 Old 06-29-2015, 07:34 AM
 
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The bass traps Ive seen are generally risers and have 48" grates
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post #28 of 410 Old 06-29-2015, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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This is the progress in the last 5 days( 3 evenings and one weekend) from a blank slate. I should have the baffle wall taped and mudded this after evening and ready to tackle columns.

Lots of liquid nails and a few screws with washers and the front wall has 1" of ductboard on it. Sounds like a black hole when you get near it..sucks all the sound out of everything..my paselode no longer goes bang...now it's more of a quiet tap. If you look close you can kinda see that I cut a vent along the back wall so the stage is also a bass trap.


Basic framing (the front wall was covered to keep it clean). For size reference the baffle wall is 8' tall and 12' wide.


5/8 Sheetrock going up ....2 layers!


Wall almost ready for mud. I drug one of the 200lb sub into place to see how it fit. The subs baffle will extend the baffle wall and will also be covered with ductboard. There's of course another sub for the left side. And 2 matching subs for the back corners too. I'll probably throw some rolls of r13 on top of the subs later for more bass traps.
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Last edited by cdy2179; 06-29-2015 at 08:03 AM.
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post #29 of 410 Old 06-29-2015, 07:50 AM
 
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post #30 of 410 Old 06-29-2015, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
The bass traps Ive seen are generally risers and have 48" grates
Yea those are the most common. But it's a good bit of corner with insulation and bass has pressure here....so why not..can't hurt!
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