2 20 amp / 1 receptacle? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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2 20 amp / 1 receptacle?

I am getting ready to add a few 20 amp outlets for my ATI6007s (these have two plugs each requiring a dedicated 20 amp circuit, and yes I know its overkill). I was going to hire an electrician to do it, but from the research I have done, it looks like a pretty simple job (even the fishing will be simple in this case). Is it possible to wire one duplex receptacle with two dedicated circuits (each plug on their own)? If so, would this cause any audio problems if I plug one of my ATI's into the receptacle wired this way? If I have to put in 6 duplex receptacles so be it.
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post #2 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mry110 View Post
I am getting ready to add a few 20 amp outlets for my ATI6007s (these have two plugs each requiring a dedicated 20 amp circuit, and yes I know its overkill). I was going to hire an electrician to do it, but from the research I have done, it looks like a pretty simple job (even the fishing will be simple in this case). Is it possible to wire one duplex receptacle with two dedicated circuits (each plug on their own)? If so, would this cause any audio problems if I plug one of my ATI's into the receptacle wired this way? If I have to put in 6 duplex receptacles so be it.
It should- don't buy the cheap ones.
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post #3 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 07:50 AM
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If you look at the side of the outlet, there is a metal tab that connects the two receptacles. It is designed to be removed, more commonly to be able to switch one of them, usually for a lamp. You can do the same with separate circuits.

(edit)
And I would use the larger, deeper boxes to make sure you have enough room for the beefier wiring and a little room for cooling, just in case.
(end edit)

Agree, don't get the cheap ones.

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post #4 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 08:11 AM
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You have to use a 2-pole breaker to disconnect both circuits supplying the receptacle. That means the two circuits will be on different phases. I'm not sure if the amp requires both cords to be on the same phase. If it does, I would use two separate receptacles.
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post #5 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 08:20 AM
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I have 2 dedicates 20 amp lines in one box{4 outlets} with no issues 10yrs.
however, I plunge two separate surge protester into the box and my gear plunges into the SP.
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post #6 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 11:10 AM
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It is a relatively easy job. You would normally use 12-3 wire, which is a single cable that has three conductors (plus ground). Black is phase 1, red is phase 2, white is a neutral, the bare wire is ground. As noted above, you break off the tab between the two "hot" terminals on the outlet, so that the top and bottom outlets are fed by the two different phases (black and red). The tab on the neutral side is left in place, as one neutral wire is used for both circuits.


Here is a picture that I found in a quick Internet search. It says 14/3 (14-3), which is for 15 amp circuits. You would want 12-3 for 20 amp circuits. You would also want a 20 amp outlet, which can be used with a standard plug, or a 20 amp plug, that has a "sideways" neutral blade. See the second picture



From http://www.renovation-headquarters.c...eptacle-2.html





Additional notes:


This arrangement allows for the most efficient circuit and the least voltage drop. It effectively reduces the cable length in half because no current actually flows through the neutral cable when both phases are in balance (using the same amount of power).


You can only use 12-3 cable if each circuit is on a separate phase. If both circuits were on the same phase, the single neutral return wire would be severely overloaded, carrying the load from both circuits, 40 amps. In that case, you would use 12-2-2 cable, which has two neutral wires.
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Last edited by DaveClement; 07-07-2015 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Missing a period.
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post #7 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveClement View Post
It is a relatively easy job. You would normally use 12-3 wire, which is a single cable that has three conductors (plus ground). Black is phase 1, red is phase 2, white is a neutral, the bare wire is ground. As noted above, you break off the tab between the two "hot" terminals on the outlet, so that the top and bottom outlets are fed by the two different phases (black and red). The tab on the neutral side is left in place, as one neutral wire is used for both circuits.


Here is a picture that I found in a quick Internet search. It says 14/3 (14-3), which is for 15 amp circuits. You would want 12-3 for 20 amp circuits. You would also want a 20 amp outlet, which can be used with a standard plug, or a 20 amp plug, that has a "sideways" neutral blade. See the second picture



From http://www.renovation-headquarters.c...eptacle-2.html





Additional notes:


This arrangement allows for the most efficient circuit and the least voltage drop. It effectively reduces the cable length in half because no current actually flows through the neutral cable when both phases are in balance (using the same amount of power).


You can only use 12-3 cable if each circuit is on a separate phase. If both circuits were on the same phase, the single neutral return wire would be severely overloaded, carrying the load from both circuits, 40 amps. In that case, you would use 12-2-2 cable, which has two neutral wires.
Great explanation.......

I might go one step further.........I have four 20 amp circuits going to one quad receptable........and yes, box is huge!
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post #8 of 13 Old 07-07-2015, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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If I went the 12/3 route, is this the breaker I would need?

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-by...FIC/204844657/

I submitted a question to ATI to find out if it was ok to plug the amp into sockets that were out of phase. Awaiting their reply.
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post #9 of 13 Old 07-08-2015, 11:54 AM
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Based on the description, it sounds exactly like what you are looking for. Of course, this assumes that it is the right make and model to fit your electrical panel, since circuit breakers come in many different shapes and sizes.





What has me scratching my head are the photos. I would expect two "hot" terminals, plus a terminal on the breaker for the white neutral wire in the 12-3 cable. The white wire should feed through the arc-fault breaker and then through the attached white pigtail that connects to the neutral bus bar in the electrical panel. From what I scan see in the pictures, I only see two screw terminals on the breaker.
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post #10 of 13 Old 07-08-2015, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveClement View Post
Based on the description, it sounds exactly like what you are looking for. Of course, this assumes that it is the right make and model to fit your electrical panel, since circuit breakers come in many different shapes and sizes.





What has me scratching my head are the photos. I would expect two "hot" terminals, plus a terminal on the breaker for the white neutral wire in the 12-3 cable. The white wire should feed through the arc-fault breaker and then through the attached white pigtail that connects to the neutral bus bar in the electrical panel. From what I scan see in the pictures, I only see two screw terminals on the breaker.
You've confused it with a GFI breaker. The white only serves to power the arc detecting electronics in the breaker. If I were the OP I'd see if the amps could run on 240 volts. That's essentially what you're doing anyway but you could use a $15 20 Amp 2 pole breaker and 12-2 for wire.

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post #11 of 13 Old 07-09-2015, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post
You've confused it with a GFI breaker. The white only serves to power the arc detecting electronics in the breaker. If I were the OP I'd see if the amps could run on 240 volts. That's essentially what you're doing anyway but you could use a $15 20 Amp 2 pole breaker and 12-2 for wire.

You are right. A lot of references to arc fault breakers show the neutral wire running through a terminal on the breaker. I wasn't aware that having the power run through the breaker wasn't a requirement, like with a GFI breaker.


I found the manual for the ATI607. http://ati-amp.com/manuals/at6000manual.pdf It says "Both power cords for the AT6002, AT6003 and AT6004 may be plugged in to a single 15 Amp circuit (120VAC) OR 8 Amp (230VAC). Each power cord for the AT6005, AT6006 and AT6007 must be plugged into separate 15 Amp circuits (120VAC) or 8 Amp circuits (230VAC)." The diagram of the back panel shows two separate "Mains1" and "Mains 2" power switches.


This is complete speculation, but I suspect that there are likely two separate and independent power supplies that do not "care" if they are plugged into the same or opposite power phases, with the requirement for separate circuits on the higher powered amps specifically because they draw too much power for one 20 amp circuit. Surely, if there was a requirement to have them on the same or different phases, the manual would say so.


mry110, where did the need for the arc fault breaker come from? I thought I remembered seeing some mention of that, but I don't see it now.
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post #12 of 13 Old 07-09-2015, 11:34 AM
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mry110, where did the need for the arc fault breaker come from?
I believe it is current NEC to Arc Fault almost all outlets now. See 2008 in this doc: http://www.codecheck.com/cc/ccimages...sComeOfAge.pdf

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post #13 of 13 Old 07-09-2015, 12:36 PM
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building codes evolve over time, when National codes are adopted it is up your local jurisdiction to adopt them on their own schedule and terms. It may lag a few years and they may disagree. Chicago is a classic as to the best of my knowledge they still won't accept bare Romex house wiring. It all has to be in metal conduit. As far as I'm concerned that simply shows the strength of the union bosses over city hall as they resist it to protect jobs. They will claim it is safer but that is a smoke screen.

Some jurisdictions now require fire protection sprinklers others do not.

Arc fault for all outlets in living spaces is one of the transitional issues. Check your local jurisdiction. And check to see if it will be required by the time you finish the project.
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