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post #451 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahuzz13 View Post
If so here is a question to the pros on this form:
if you are just going with 2 18" subs in the stage does it make sense to have on at one height and a second at double the height, like what you see with guys that have 4 subs up front stacked but if would be just a platform holding one of the subs at the elevated level (hope that make sense)
By doing this would if give you a more even bass throughout multiple level seating or just having them at the same height do the same thing.
I can't speak to what Javeryh is doing, but I can say that generally most people don't stack their subs unless they are having more than 2 up front. Something that is somewhat common is to construct the second row riser such that it becomes a bass trap, which is designed to help alleviate the strong bass peaks that can happen in the corner, and I *think* it also helps deal with the concept of vertical-ness that the riser provides.

Generally though, as I understand it, the standing waves is more of a horizontal issue based on the room shape. So what most people do is what is known as the "subwoofer crawl". Which essentially has them putting their subwoofer in the chair of their room, and then crawling keeping their head where the possible sub locations would be. With a limited amount of space behind a false wall that normally gives people a few feet on each side of the center for each sub. I *think* you can have one sub in one seat, and the other in your secondary mlp, to help confirm how they work together. The idea with the crawling is to find a spot where the bass sounds good across a region of bass sound. When you find one, you put one sub there, and the other in the second spot where you had similar sounds. It allows you to not have to move the sub, go back to your seat, move the sub, go back to your seat, rinse, repeat 1000 times.

If you have some time, both of these videos are pretty good, and at least one of them talks about bass placement, and what is idea (and I think one might talk about sub crawl too, but it's been a while since I watched):



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Originally Posted by javeryh View Post
They are going on the left and right of my center speaker so it will be L SUB C SUB R behind the screen. I'm looking at the Denon 6300 or 6400 to power the 7.2.4 set up but it is still not clear to me if I need a separate amp to power the subwoofers...
Currently there isn't a 6400. If you get the 6300, you will not need an external amp, unless you feel you just aren't getting things loud enough, and then you can look at adding one or two to lessen the load on the internal amps. By default though, you will be able to run everything out the box. This is the *easy* solution, albeit a little more expensive.

The 4300, would require at least one external amp to power two channels. Sometimes you can get this for under 900, don't know what avs offers them for, and couldn't post it if I knew. Mike Garret could answer that for sure. So this is definitely a way to save a few hundred bucks, just a little more wiring involved.

Last edited by sigma722; 07-28-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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post #452 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sigma722 View Post
I can't speak to what Javeryh is doing, but I can say that generally most people don't stack their subs unless they are having more than 2 up front. Something that is somewhat common is to construct the second row riser such that it becomes a bass trap, which is designed to help alleviate the strong bass peaks that can happen in the corner, and I *think* it also helps deal with the concept of vertical-ness that the riser provides.

Generally though, as I understand it, the standing waves is more of a horizontal issue based on the room shape. So what most people do is what is known as the "subwoofer crawl". Which essentially has them putting their subwoofer in the chair of their room, and then crawling keeping their head where the possible sub locations would be. With a limited amount of space behind a false wall that normally gives people a few feet on each side of the center for each sub. I *think* you can have one sub in one seat, and the other in your secondary mlp, to help confirm how they work together. The idea with the crawling is to find a spot where the bass sounds good across a region of bass sound. When you find one, you put one sub there, and the other in the second spot where you had similar sounds. It allows you to not have to move the sub, go back to your seat, move the sub, go back to your seat, rinse, repeat 1000 times.

If you have some time, both of these videos are pretty good, and at least one of them talks about bass placement, and what is idea (and I think one might talk about sub crawl too, but it's been a while since I watched):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raAyF5ksbkk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_DQWB0mAOo



Currently there isn't a 6400. If you get the 6300, you will not need an external amp, unless you feel you just aren't getting things loud enough, and then you can look at adding one or two to lessen the load on the internal amps. By default though, you will be able to run everything out the box. This is the *easy* solution, albeit a little more expensive.

The 4300, would require at least one external amp to power two channels. Sometimes you can get this for under 900, don't know what avs offers them for, and couldn't post it if I knew. Mike Garret could answer that for sure. So this is definitely a way to save a few hundred bucks, just a little more wiring involved.
Thanks for all of that info - I need to learn about this stuff and I know next to nothing (just copying what others have done without knowing the science behind it).

The 6400 comes out in late August, which is what I was thinking although if the 6300 can do pretty much the same thing for a few hundred dollars less I don't need to have the new shiny toy. Just to keep things easy I'd like the all-in-one solution unless there is a huge price difference in going with the 4300 + an external amp...
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post #453 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 09:59 AM
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I don't know what is going on exactly just that I can't place my order due to changing manufacturing locations or something along those lines. I don't think I want to DIY my own screen - I'm all for saving money but that part needs to be perfect!



I am excited to get the subs - the Marty Cubes were just going to be too big for my space behind the screen but the Stonehenges should have plenty of room. I'll do a separate build thread for them but Erich said his guy now assembles them paint-ready before shipping so all I'll have to do is paint and install the woofer. Seems easy enough!

They are going on the left and right of my center speaker so it will be L SUB C SUB R behind the screen. I'm looking at the Denon 6300 or 6400 to power the 7.2.4 set up but it is still not clear to me if I need a separate amp to power the subwoofers...
I'm not much for DIY subs at the moment. Too much on my plate.
Are they much more cost effective then the HSU WTF-3 MK5 or the VTF-15H MK2.
Or the PSA subs? Performance supposed to be better?

I would rather focus on my room build and get gear already built and ready to go so I can plug everything in and go.

I have no experience with DIY speakers/subs




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post #454 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I have no experience with DIY speakers/subs
The Volt 6s posted above were the first ones I ever built and I think they came out great. I never soldered anything in my life before building them. It was fairly easy once I knew what to do and I would definitely do it again (in fact, I'm building the Elusive 1099s for my LCRs next week!). I'm not sure about performance v. the other speakers you listed but I've been led to believe that you get more for your money if you build yourself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are interested, don't let your inexperience keep you from trying it. There are lots of resources and people willing to walk you through it on this site...
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post #455 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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We made a little more progress on the room yesterday. All of the baseboard moulding and chair rail has been installed! This will be another picture dump but I've got some close-ups to post so you can hopefully see the insane finish work. It is coming out better than I could have imagined. You just have to picture how all of this will look once the wife and I get a chance to paint it black and do the touch up.

















This post is a little long so I'll break out the close-up shots I took into a separate post. It looks very good. The crown moulding is being installed today around the top and the trim/wainscoting panels are also being installed.

We have also started looking at carpet samples to try and decide. It is going to be a VERY hard decision. So many styles to choose from and I want to make sure I get the color and pattern right. We are thinking dark but not black. Well, maybe black with some highlights in it or something. We had an easier time naming our kids.
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post #456 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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And here is the rest of the camera dump showing off some of the details of the moulding.

This is the rear columns:



Here is a close up of the bottom of one of the columns. Obviously we still have to sand down all of the places where we filled the nail holes before painting.



And here is a close-up of the chair rail. You can see how scuffed up the paint job got. Kind of annoying - we will have to sand and paint over all of the scuffed areas and hope to blend them in. it looks really nice next to the fabric panels on the columns.





Here's another close up of the bottom of the column from a different perspective.



This one is really exciting - the back corner! The seam is caulked but this will all be painted black.



Here is a close-up of the door moulding and the switch and where the chair rail meets the door (the switch eventually gets a black plate). It all goes together really nice. I wish I painted the door black first though - painting that little strip of white in between the trim and the door might be tricky.



Full shot of a column - without crown moulding.



This is the right side of the door up near the stage. It looks a little weird but once everything is painted black everything will look a lot better.



And finally, this is the other side of the door showing the moulding around the steps.



That's it for now!
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post #457 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 01:35 PM
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The Volt 6s posted above were the first ones I ever built and I think they came out great. I never soldered anything in my life before building them. It was fairly easy once I knew what to do and I would definitely do it again (in fact, I'm building the Elusive 1099s for my LCRs next week!). I'm not sure about performance v. the other speakers you listed but I've been led to believe that you get more for your money if you build yourself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are interested, don't let your inexperience keep you from trying it. There are lots of resources and people willing to walk you through it on this site...
Just to tag onto what javeryh is saying, subs require no crossovers so if you can glue together pieces of MDF and operate a drill (assuming you buy a kit that doesn't require cutting wood) you can build a sub in a couple of hours. Cost for my my Marty cube was under $500 until I added veneer (additional $200). Even with that it's less than the HSU subs you mentioned. I can't speak for performance, but many on the DIY Speaker forum have showed very similar performance by these subs to even those made by higher end mfrs like SVS, etc.
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post #458 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 06:40 PM
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Just to tag onto what javeryh is saying, subs require no crossovers so if you can glue together pieces of MDF and operate a drill (assuming you buy a kit that doesn't require cutting wood) you can build a sub in a couple of hours. Cost for my my Marty cube was under $500 until I added veneer (additional $200). Even with that it's less than the HSU subs you mentioned. I can't speak for performance, but many on the DIY Speaker forum have showed very similar performance by these subs to even those made by higher end mfrs like SVS, etc.
I put an email out earlier today to the DIYsoundgroup.
Looking for some info for 2 subs, cost etc...need to figure out shipping also, here in Canada. Thanks for the input

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post #459 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 07:21 PM
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I put an email out earlier today to the DIYsoundgroup.
Looking for some info for 2 subs, cost etc...need to figure out shipping also, here in Canada. Thanks for the input
Hey moe80 I live just north of Newmarket and I have a friend that can bring your order over if you need. Erich from DIYSG will send it to Detroit or Buffalo then it can be arranged to be brought over.
PM me if you want more details and just to let you know it will be way cheaper to bring over what ever you need all at once.
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post #460 of 742 Old 07-28-2017, 08:33 PM
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Hey moe80 I live just north of Newmarket and I have a friend that can bring your order over if you need. Erich from DIYSG will send it to Detroit or Buffalo then it can be arranged to be brought over.
PM me if you want more details and just to let you know it will be way cheaper to bring over what ever you need all at once.
Mahuzz13
That's great thanks, appreciate that.

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post #461 of 742 Old 07-29-2017, 04:55 AM
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Good job, rooms looks very nice.
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post #462 of 742 Old 07-29-2017, 07:29 AM
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I may have missed a detail on your flooring plans but you may want to consider raising your baseboard moldings 3/8" to accept carpet before filling and painting
Room looks fantastic btw!!

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post #463 of 742 Old 07-30-2017, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Good job, rooms looks very nice.

Thank you! I'm taking a little break this week after the craziness of last week but we did finish all of the wainscoting and crown moulding in the room. I'll post pics when I get a chance.

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I may have missed a detail on your flooring plans but you may want to consider raising your baseboard moldings 3/8" to accept carpet before filling and painting
Room looks fantastic btw!!

Thanks! The carpet is going to be installed right up to the baseboard. I have a sump pump in the back corner that I need to access and still haven't worked out how. We are either not tacking down the carpet in that corner so we can peel it back and access the hatch or we are going to install hinges and a recessed handle on the hatch and carpet it as a separate panel/door.

I'm open to suggestions.
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post #464 of 742 Old 08-01-2017, 11:18 PM
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I may have missed a detail on your flooring plans but you may want to consider raising your baseboard moldings 3/8" to accept carpet before filling and painting
Room looks fantastic btw!!
Agree. But, maybe some shoe moulding if you don't want to redo all your baseboards.
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post #465 of 742 Old 08-02-2017, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by javeryh View Post
Thank you! I'm taking a little break this week after the craziness of last week but we did finish all of the wainscoting and crown moulding in the room. I'll post pics when I get a chance.




Thanks! The carpet is going to be installed right up to the baseboard. I have a sump pump in the back corner that I need to access and still haven't worked out how. We are either not tacking down the carpet in that corner so we can peel it back and access the hatch or we are going to install hinges and a recessed handle on the hatch and carpet it as a separate panel/door.

I'm open to suggestions.
Carpet is usually attached to the tack strips which are just in front of the baseboard, and then the edge of the carpet is stuffed under the baseboard. If you try to just bring the carpet up to the baseboard I think it will look awkward. I think unevenness in the cut of the carpet will show and any fibers that get pulled through cutting, etc. Also, you may have tension problems the way you described, but I am not a carpet guy so I do not know for sure. I think you need to take the time now before the room is finished and fix the issue. It will look a lot better done right.
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post #466 of 742 Old 08-02-2017, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by javeryh View Post
Thank you! I'm taking a little break this week after the craziness of last week but we did finish all of the wainscoting and crown moulding in the room. I'll post pics when I get a chance.




Thanks! The carpet is going to be installed right up to the baseboard. I have a sump pump in the back corner that I need to access and still haven't worked out how. We are either not tacking down the carpet in that corner so we can peel it back and access the hatch or we are going to install hinges and a recessed handle on the hatch and carpet it as a separate panel/door.

I'm open to suggestions.
If I remember correctly your sump pump is in the back corner of your riser? If so could they put tack strips around the outside edge to hold the carpet in place and then tack strips on the outside edges of the access door? Being in the back corner is going to be that noticeable especially in the dark?

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post #467 of 742 Old 08-02-2017, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Agree. But, maybe some shoe moulding if you don't want to redo all your baseboards.
I'm guessing shoe moulding is the plan but I'll definitely confirm with my contractor.

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Carpet is usually attached to the tack strips which are just in front of the baseboard, and then the edge of the carpet is stuffed under the baseboard. If you try to just bring the carpet up to the baseboard I think it will look awkward. I think unevenness in the cut of the carpet will show and any fibers that get pulled through cutting, etc. Also, you may have tension problems the way you described, but I am not a carpet guy so I do not know for sure. I think you need to take the time now before the room is finished and fix the issue. It will look a lot better done right.
I agree - this is something I haven't even considered until now. I had just assumed my contractor knows what he is doing but I will make sure to ask. The last thing I want is an uneven edge around the room or frayed carpet along the edges.

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If I remember correctly your sump pump is in the back corner of your riser? If so could they put tack strips around the outside edge to hold the carpet in place and then tack strips on the outside edges of the access door? Being in the back corner is going to be that noticeable especially in the dark?
My sump pump is in the back corner of the riser. Right now it is just framed out with 2x10s and there is a 1.5" cover (two 3/4" plywood panels). I do not think it will be visible at all once the carpet goes in - covering the door separately like you described is something that we are thinking of doing. Ideally I'd never have to get in there but you never know. The main pump is wired to the electric panel but the backup is a water powered pump (no battery to replace).
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post #468 of 742 Old 08-06-2017, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Break (and vacation) is over. Going to be pushing hard to finish hopefully around Labor Day. Punch list is getting shorter:

Room:
  • Paint bottom 1/2 of walls black
  • Touch up with black paint everywhere else
  • Build minimal screen wall
  • Install acoustic tiles along back wall and line walls behind screen with linacoustic
  • Maybe get a rubber pad for stage so speakers can rest on something
  • Build fabric panels for double doors
  • Figure out trap door for sump pump
  • Carpet room (we are going with Magic Night by Shaw)
  • Trim fiber-optic cables to 1/8" in ceiling
  • Install floor lights
  • Spray paint (black) and install HVAC vents in soffit
  • Install outlets and face plates in columns

Equipment
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  • Denon 6300 should be here tomorrow
  • Build 3 1099s from diysoundgroup (cabinets are built - need to do everything else)
  • Order and build 2 Stonehenge subs from diysoundgroup (working on this now with Erich)
  • Order screen (90% sure I'm getting a 130" Seymour XD screen)
  • Order chairs (we are getting 7 Fusion Escapes in leather)

I'll also have to hook everything up and calibrate (obviously). I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of things. The wainscoting on the bottom 1/2 of the walls has been completed as well as the crown moulding underneath the soffit.

Here is a shot of how the crown looks going around the columns (I have to do all the touch up still). All inside joints were coped.



And here is a shot of the moulding going around the projector box. The bottom part of the crown continues around the projector box and then gets picked up by the crown on the other side which I really like.



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post #469 of 742 Old 08-06-2017, 02:22 PM
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The crown and trim around the pj box really looks fantastic. Would you mind sharing the crown and trim profile make/model number? It's exactly what I'm looking for as well.
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post #470 of 742 Old 08-07-2017, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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The crown and trim around the pj box really looks fantastic. Would you mind sharing the crown and trim profile make/model number? It's exactly what I'm looking for as well.
Thanks - I'll have to ask my contractor for the exact profiles but I imagine it is a common combination.
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post #471 of 742 Old 08-07-2017, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright - back at it. Below are some shots of the wainscoting going all the way around the room starting with the view of the screen wall. It looks a little off right now because of the different colors and the white moulding but once I paint everything black it should all blend together with the rest of the room.

Today my contractor is doing all of the touch-up and final filling/sanding so that the bottom half of the wall is paint ready for me. I'll probably try to throw on a coat after work every night this week until I'm finished (primer + 2 top coats). Then touch-up after that (I need to figure out how to minimize the blending).

















It looks good so far. I've got a few close-ups I'll post shortly.
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post #472 of 742 Old 08-07-2017, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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And here are the rest of the pics of the wainscoting. It is pretty simple but the overall effect is going to be great... after painting. I also just realized I'll have to be very careful (or tape) where the wall meets the column. I was trying to avoid taping altogether. Ugh!



I like the way the trim on the wall panel just follows the shape of the wall all the way around the room.







Here is a shot of one of the columns so you can see all of the trim. I might have had a beer or two before taking this picture - can't explain why it is so crooked otherwise...



Getting closer!
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post #473 of 742 Old 08-07-2017, 09:39 AM
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Do you have any sections of wainscoting where the length is longer than a piece of MDF? Curious to see what people normally do in that case to hide the seam. Assuming it's like what people do for speaker boxes and bondo it or something..
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post #474 of 742 Old 08-07-2017, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you have any sections of wainscoting where the length is longer than a piece of MDF? Curious to see what people normally do in that case to hide the seam. Assuming it's like what people do for speaker boxes and bondo it or something..
Luckily I do not. If I did I would definitely use my biscuit joiner to ensure a perfect match when gluing MDF end to end. Then I'd bondo and sand the seam, which should be very easy after the biscuit joiner lines everything up.
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post #475 of 742 Old 08-07-2017, 11:56 AM
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Luckily I do not. If I did I would definitely use my biscuit joiner to ensure a perfect match when gluing MDF end to end. Then I'd bondo and sand the seam, which should be very easy after the biscuit joiner lines everything up.
Oh yeah, nice idea.
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post #476 of 742 Old 08-07-2017, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Javery's NJ Theater - finally started!

Got the carpet sample today. It is dark with a hint of gray running through it to break it up. I like it and I'm pretty sure this is the one.




Last edited by javeryh; 08-07-2017 at 03:18 PM.
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post #477 of 742 Old 08-08-2017, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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So yesterday when I got home from work I had 2 surprises waiting for me - the screen samples from Seymour and three PCBs for my 1099s that @ja00 had left over - huge thanks to him for sending those along.

Here are the samples. The first one is the XD and the second one is the UF. I like the feel of the XD much more than the UF but I have to actually test them out at some point this week.





My plan is to paint the bottom half of the walls in the theater AND build the 1099s this weekend. The cabinets for the 1099s are already built so I think it is doable to solder everything and glue on the front panels on Saturday and then being the finishing process on Sunday.
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post #478 of 742 Old 08-08-2017, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah - I forgot to post this the other day. Current status of room:

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post #479 of 742 Old 08-08-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javeryh View Post
So yesterday when I got home from work I had 2 surprises waiting for me - the screen samples from Seymour and three PCBs for my 1099s that @ja00 had left over - huge thanks to him for sending those along.

Here are the samples. The first one is the XD and the second one is the UF. I like the feel of the XD much more than the UF but I have to actually test them out at some point this week.





My plan is to paint the bottom half of the walls in the theater AND build the 1099s this weekend. The cabinets for the 1099s are already built so I think it is doable to solder everything and glue on the front panels on Saturday and then being the finishing process on Sunday.
I also liked the feel of the XD as well. If I build a new 2.35:1 screen I think I will use the XD.

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post #480 of 742 Old 08-08-2017, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I also liked the feel of the XD as well. If I build a new 2.35:1 screen I think I will use the XD.
The two materials are wildly different. One feels like vinyl and the other feels like cloth. It's hard to believe they are both used for the same thing. The XD seems much more "screen like" to me - I hope I can't see the weave. My wife can't see it from 2 ft. away so that's one thumbs up haha.
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