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post #1 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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The Final Frontier Theater

Link to current progress/status: HERE


*** Update 08.31.2017 ***
  • All fabric frames complete
  • Installed PJ mount under soffit
  • Installed knee wall countertop
  • Assembled screen
  • Test fitted screen and surrounding black velvet fabric frames on false wall


*** Update 08.10.2017 ***
  • 90% of frames for fabric frames completed
  • 60% fabric frames done
  • Discovered some minor reconfiguration issues to resolve
  • Testing ideas for knee wall countertop


*** Update 08.01.2017 ***
  • Fabric frame construction pending
  • Carpet installed
  • Baseboard installed
  • Crown moulding under soffit and on columns installed
  • Trim around A/V cabinet installed
  • Rough-in to relocate projector mount position


*** Update 07.23.2017 ***
  • LIG has been busy lately, so not much progress to report
  • Cleaned up various miscellaneous items, changed direction a couple times on moulding pics
  • Fabric search for the primary wall fabric frames


*** Update 06.20.2017 ***
  • Stage framing almost done (false wall)
  • Picked up fabric for front stage fabric panels and speaker grilles
  • Need to deal with some of my Roxul falling out from behind stage due to poor adhesion


*** Update 06.10.2017 ***
  • Knee wall behind rear seating row roughed-in
  • Giving myself another option for PJ mount location
  • Framing the stage (speaker and screen mount support)
  • Plugged the front windows (plywood and 6" of Roxul Safe'n'Sound, 1" Linacoustic)
  • Insulation applied to front wall (3" Roxul Safe'n'Sound)
  • Book/DVD shelves rough-in completed
  • Screen mount frame done
  • Finally ordered and wired up the Z-Wave wall switches for lighting
  • Wired up step lights and front recessed lights


*** Update 05.19.2017 ***

Working hard to knock this thing out. I've recently stepped up the amount of time I'm devoting to building my HT room. Unfortunately, there's a lot of little detail work that is needed here and there, including figuring out a few puzzles. Sorting out the details translates to it feeling like I'm not making much progress, even though I know I am. I've learned the hard way on this project that rushing things often leads to a re-do.

Here's what I'm currently multi-tasking on:
  • Knee wall behind the rear seats
  • DVD shelves on left wall
  • Framing the stage (screen supports, speaker cabs, etc.)
  • Front window plugs
  • Spot touch-up sanding and re-painting/finishing of columns, ceiling as I notice imperfections
  • Electrical wiring: step lights, receptacles, bev fridge (in exterior hallway)


*** Update 05.09.2017 ***

Finally built the stage platform. I decided to go with a relatively short design with 1 step and total height of ~8". I also decided to put the L/R speakers in front of the screen, toed in at 45° as that seems to be the best angle for SEOS horns based on all the reviews I've read of them. Worst-case scenario, I'll be able to decrease the toe-in to 30° or so if necessary, provided I allow enough clearance behind the L/R speaker panels to move them about sufficiently. The center channel will be behind the AT screen.

Still mulling DIY vs. pro built screen. I'm really tempted to go the DIY route first, if for no other reason than to try it out and learn. Beyond that, I need to finish out the built-in storage on the left wall and figure out how the fabric panels will be attached to the walls, add baseboard and crown mouldings, trim moulding around the speaker panels for the side and rear surrounds, and touch up a few spots with paint and/or spackle. I've picked out a carpet but putting it in will be the last step other than electronics/outfitting the A/V rack.



*** Update 04.20.2017 ***

Life has thrown some curveballs at me lately, and poor maintenance of this thread by myself has been one of the side effects. So, it's about time for an update.

At this point (not yet reflected in the thread), I just finished the speaker grilles yesterday for the columns. I'm currently filing and sanding the seams and finish nail holes in the columns. After that, what I have left is to build the stage, screen mount, carpet, finish up the electrical fixtures, HVAC vents, and a knee wall behind the rear seats. Of course, I'm discounting the task of hooking up all the electronics and cleaning up the A/V rack, but those are minor tasks compared to the others. I also have yet to tackle updating my HVAC in the attic with a multi-zone controller so I can install a thermostat in the HT room and control its climate independently of the remainder of the home.



*** Update 01.05.2017 ***

Didn't get much done over the holiday with family in town, kids out of school, etc. etc. but I managed to make some decent progress just before the holiday time crunch. The riser is complete except for steps and routing the lip (mental note: next time route the riser lip BEFORE securing floor panels to the riser).


*** Update 11.20.2016 ***

Status: Drywall finally done. What a PITA. I prolly put a lot more effort into that necessary, considering the fact no one will see the walls (will be fabric covered).

I still don't have a working camera. Aaargh. My digital cam died (most likely killed by drywall dust), and my phone's cam is busted.

Now working on completing the frame-out of the A/V rack, and then will mount the Middle Atlantic SRSR rotating rack system.


*** Update 11.03.2016 ***

Drywall almost complete. Still mudding and sanding. The soffit has been a P.I.T.A. (corners). I realized today that I don't need to be perfect with the vertical surface of the outside corners, as the trim moulding will cover them (trim moulding to house accent lighting).

I'll add that my drywall skills have improved exponentially since I started the dw portion. That's still not saying much compared to a pro, but when your project is 100% DIY... I'll take the wins I can get.


*** Update 08.13.2016 ***

Status: Re-routing HVAC for a more optimal configuration. Unfortunately, this is delaying several other key items but if I don't correct this issue now, I'll have to live with the HVAC layout being sub-par.


*** Update 07.18.2016 ***

Status: Wiring the soffit (120vac, 12-24vdc, CAT5e/6, conduits for future-proofing & projector wiring, A/C to projector), fire/smoke alarm, VOIP phone pre-wire, ADA compliant visual fire-alarm pre-wire.


*** Update 06.11.2016 ***

Status: Finally got almost all the drywall up and now working on framing the soffits. OSB layer was done in April. What a PITA that was. Next time, I'll stick with the KISS principle and just do 2x drywall. I've had to modify my design plan a bit due to various constraints. Realized this project requires constant re-evaluation of various trade-offs. For example, I decided to reduce the soffit height to 10-10.5" instead of the original planned 12-13"; after I calculated the riser height and door height - since the door will be entering at riser height - I determined there wasn't quite enough headroom clearance, so the soffit height was shrunk. Likewise, I'm leaning toward shrinking the riser height from 12" to 10" to provide just a bit more headroom under the wide rear soffit I'm planning. We'll see. That should be sorted out later this month, after I return from vacation.


*** Update 04.03.2016 ***

Status: The super slow build continues! Finally had time this weekend to work on the HVAC flex duct system. Split existing return duct into 3 sections: projector exhaust, A/V rack exhaust, and room. Ceiling insulation nearly complete. Hoping to begin the ceiling this week.

I am so tired of trips to Home Depot. That store must love me.


*** Update 02.05.2016 ***

New design drawings here.

***********************

I suppose it's time I created a build thread. For now I'll call my HT room to-be the 'Final Frontier' build because 1) I couldn't find any other reference with that name in this thread and 2) my wife thinks I'm nuts and this is the final frontier of my DIY skills. LOL.

Alright, now to the point....

I started the demo of my existing "media" room in my home October 1. To date that's all I've got completed. I'm stuck in the 'which of my 5 billion room designs should I build?' mode. To wit I'm asking for this community's esteemed opinions on the best layout of my room. I have narrowed it down to 4 options. I understand this realm is all about trade-offs, unless you are fortunate enough to have very deep pockets and/or a blank slate (and I have neither). So, here goes. Diagrams attached below, along with diagram of original room floor plan and photos.


Plan #1 (P-2)

  • Finished dimensions: 23' 2" x 12' 10"
  • Horizontal viewing angles: Front row 54°; back row 34°
  • Front row viewing distance to screen 10' 0"
  • Back row viewing distance to screen 16' 8"
  • Screen width 120"
  • Side entry along north wall, positioned in front of 1st row seating
  • Rack room side entry north wall, between front and back seating rows
  • Small closet space could be used as media library
  • Small built-in refrigerator just outside theater entrance


Plan #2 (Q-1)

  • Finished dimensions: 23' 2" x 13' 2"\
  • Horizontal viewing angles: Front row 56°; back row 36°
  • Front row viewing distance to screen 9' 7"
  • Back row viewing distance to screen 15' 9"
  • Screen width 120"
  • Rear entry from NW quadrant, entering behind all seats from north to south


Plan #3 (O-2)
  • Finished dimensions: 23' 6" x 12' 9"
  • Horizontal viewing angles: Front row 52°; back row 34°
  • Front row viewing distance to screen 10' 9"
  • Back row viewing distance to screen 17' 2"
  • Screen width 130"
  • Side entry along north wall, positioned in front of 1st row seating
  • This plan has wider columns (24" x 6") mainly to allow concealing the equipment rack access (front) behind the front left column (viewed when seated, facing screen)


Plan #4 (K-7)
  • Finished dimensions: 18' 10" x 16' 4"
  • Horizontal viewing angles: Front row 58°; back row 36°
  • Front row viewing distance to screen 8' 0"
  • Back row viewing distance to screen 14' 0"
  • Rear entry from NW quadrant, entering behind all seats from west to east
  • Screen width 110"


General Notes
All plans share the following characteristics:Room is an existing 2nd floor media room
  • Raw room dimensions (before demo) are 24' x 17'
  • Windows (will be covered) are located on the 'east' and 'south' walls
  • To date I have stripped the drywall in the original room
  • Build plan is "room within a room"
  • Surrounding the HT room:
  • Above: attic, unfinished
  • Below: garage
  • North side (up): existing bedroom
  • East: exterior wall
  • South: exterior wall
  • West: exterior wall except for upper 4'x4' section which abuts a bathroom
  • The upper left quadrant (more or less a 4'x4' area) is the only entry point to the room (i.e. I don't want to screw up the adjoining bedroom to the north - not an option from the WAF perspective)
  • Upper right corner shaded area is a bump-in (part of the house structure that I cannot alter)
  • Walls will be a combination of staggered-stud and double-stud covered with plywood/green glue/drywall
  • Ceiling will be plywood/green glue/drywall or double-drywall w/GG in between (undecided on ceiling as of yet)
  • Room Dimensions are after plywood+drywall and before acoustic wall treatments
  • Door widths will be 2' 8" (32") for theater entry and 2' (24") for equipment/rack room closet entry
  • 2 rows of theater style seating: 3 seats front, 4 seats rear (loveseat in middle, 1 seat either side)
  • Wired for 11.2.4 but original setup will be 7.2.4
  • 2 subs in front, and 1 or 2 subs in rear if I can work out the placement
  • Base ceiling height 8' 10-1/2"
  • Tray ceiling in center +12"
  • Riser height 12"
  • When present, the 'Ramp up' purpose is to elevate the floor over the sub-floor, which consists of the home's original sub-floor plus 1 5/8" (3/8" rubber mat + 19/32" OSB + 1/16" 30# roof felt + 19/32" OSB)
  • When present, "Wall Poster Monitor" is a placeholder for a wall poster and/or monitor that displays what is going on in the HT room (i.e. movie playing, etc.)
  • On floor plans where there is no lobby, the entry door is a back-to-back double door system with internal gaskets (one in-swing, one out-swing)

Which floor plan would you choose, and why?
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Last edited by HT Geek; 08-31-2017 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Updated for passage of time
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post #2 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 03:25 PM
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I think my head just exploded. Too much information

On Q1 the door swing can't extend past the edge of the landing per building code.

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post #3 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
I think my head just exploded. Too much information
LOL. It's difficult to gauge how much info to post. However based on the many hours that I've spent reading this forum, if I posted a simple question then I'd get asked a bunch of questions. So, I posted a question with lots of detail in an effort to address those type of questions. After all, these are important details, right?

I know in our society these days most people want the TLDR; version but that's not realistic when it comes to a complex subject such as a dedicated HT build.

Let me try and distill it down. The bare room was 24' x 17' from drywall to drywall before I demo'd it. I've thought of 4 general layouts:

1. Use the entire room, which means I lose an existing closet that the wife would like to keep
2. Keep the closet and have ~20' x 17' to work with
3. Ditch the closet (on 'west' wall) and create a new lobby/closet combo on north wall. Yields a 24' x 12.5' room.
4. Keep the closet, and add a lobby + media library. Results in a room size of roughly 20' x 12.5'.

Quote:
On Q1 the door swing can't extend past the edge of the landing per building code.
Thanks for that info.

Last edited by HT Geek; 11-07-2015 at 04:58 PM.
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post #4 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Some high-level thoughts/opinion solicitations:

1. What's a comfortable minimum riser step width? "Comfortable" as in comfortable navigating it/using it.

2. I can't move where the room entrance is. This room is basically in a corner of the house. I can decide if the room entrance is longitudinal or latitudinal (i.e. entering from left to right or from up to down when viewing the plans). So, I'm particularly interested in thoughts on where the theater entrance is going to be relative to the seating rows (e.g. enter to the side, from rear, etc.).

I know what I'd like to do in this space, but I've reached a point of process-of-elimination by ruling out designs or concepts that don't seem to work well. For example, if the room is entered from the rear, I don't want a step up inside the theater room. I'd place it outside the room.
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post #5 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 05:34 PM
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I like the plans that use the full length of the space so that the rear row has some separation to the back wall, My vote is for the basic layout of O-2, just not certain of the Fridge/rack arrangement.
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post #6 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 05:56 PM
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I don't think I would use any of them. Couple of things I see. 1. Not enough separation in LCR speakers. 2. Way too much space eaten up in depth by the speakers behind the screen. 3. Try to keep seating off the back row by at least 2 feet for 7.1 and the recommendation is now 4 feet for Atmos. 4. Columns should be evenly spaced for visual appeal. 5. Avoid using big triangle traps in the corners behind screen. Eats way too much space.
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post #7 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 05:59 PM
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I will say, that the third one is a good start.
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post #8 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
My vote is for the basic layout of O-2, just not certain of the Fridge/rack arrangement.
Big,

Thanks for your comments.

My thinking was a half rack (21/24U) suspended over a small built-in refrigerator.

There is a bathroom nearby. I'm trying to think through how I'll use the HT. Being on the 2nd floor, it's a good walk from the kitchen. I figured a small fridge w/a few beers and sodas would be a plus. OTOH, I don't want the noise of a fridge inside the HT room.

The hallway outside the space I have to work with does not lend itself well to hiding a fridge in the wall (3 bedrooms nearby). There is a 2nd floor playroom that could be converted to a combo kids playroom/wet bar. That would be the backup plan if I can't fit a fridge and/or microwave (popcorn) in or near the HT room.

Last edited by HT Geek; 11-07-2015 at 06:41 PM.
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post #9 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
I don't think I would use any of them. Couple of things I see. 1. Not enough separation in LCR speakers.
Mike,

I greatly appreciate your candid comments, especially from someone with your background.

That's a rough representation in the diagram, but point noted. I don't believe I pro-rated the distance to each speaker in that particular screen shot. My understanding is they should be equidistant from the primary listening position, is that correct?

For example, in general the center speaker would be further back than the L/R based on hypotenuse of a triangle vs. 90° angle to center speaker. At least that's my understanding ATM.

Quote:
2. Way too much space eaten up in depth by the speakers behind the screen.
Are you still referring to the 3rd diagram ("O-2")? It's only 26" deep. The speakers I'm planning are 19.5" deep. I am planning on ~30° toe-in. I was thinking 26" as a minimum depth after accounting for toe-in, lining the front wall with acoustic absorption especially freqs <500hz, etc.

Some of the other diagrams are deeper mainly to allow the area to potentially double as a storage space. I know I wouldn't want just anything stored back there, but I figured some long oriental rugs that I have in storage could fit there without causing reverberation in the theater.

Quote:
3. Try to keep seating off the back row by at least 2 feet for 7.1 and the recommendation is now 4 feet for Atmos.
Crud. Even ceiling mounted Atmos? FWIW, I left the ceiling speakers out of these diagrams. I figured they were cluttered enough already w/details. :-) I am endeavoring to follow Dolby's guidelines on a 7.2.4 configuration with pre-wiring for 11.2.4 (just in case).

Quote:
4. Columns should be evenly spaced for visual appeal.
I have struggled with this issue. It's challenging to design a side-entry room where the doors don't intrude at a desirable position for a speaker. Perhaps I need to consider giving up on the possibility of 9.1 or 11.1 sound in order to make the columns concept work... or give up on columns.

Quote:
5. Avoid using big triangle traps in the corners behind screen. Eats way too much space.
I thought this was desirable for corner bass trapping. Perhaps in conjunction with your comment #2 above it's a waste of space.
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post #10 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 10:44 PM
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The third one you posted. Not sure on the designation. As far as the speakers go, that's an astute and knowledgeable response. Ideally yes, they would be equidistant, but in reality, they won't be except for the central positions. If you sit on either side of the center position, left or right, you will no longer be equidistant from the speakers. You will always be closer to one of the other speaker. Only a single listener would ever be equidistant. To make up for this, you can use the distance and levels within the receiver, but be forewarned, the distances and levels don't always reflect in listening tests what they claim to be. The angle is more important than the distance. However, you do want the speakers to be at the same height and of same make and model with similar timbre.
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post #11 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 10:45 PM
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You can take care of the base trapping through other methods such as a pressure absorber riser. Space is a premium in most theaters, so use it the best you can.
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post #12 of 422 Old 11-07-2015, 10:51 PM
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Oh, and forget about 11.1 or .2 or whatever. Proper treatment, design and placement will take the place of additional effect speakers. Yes, 4 feet even for ceiling speakers. If you don't have the space, you don't have it. It is what it is. I would place the speakers in the ceiling in the drawing. Placement of these speakers should not be haphazard and is extremely important. Work it out in your plan. To do so, you will also need to do a side elevation.
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post #13 of 422 Old 11-08-2015, 05:32 AM
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Have you considered no columns, with false fabric walls as a design solution?

Wouldn't a baffle wall help conserve a little bit of room depth?


Have you considered shallower seating options?
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post #14 of 422 Old 11-08-2015, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
As far as the speakers go... yes, they would be equidistant, but in reality, they won't be except for the central positions. If you sit on either side of the center position, left or right, you will no longer be equidistant from the speakers.
Yes, understood that there is only one "money" seat, per se.

Quote:
The angle is more important than the distance. However, you do want the speakers to be at the same height and of same make and model with similar timbre.
Makes sense and thank you. I have heard from others that the speakers I'm looking at (3 identical for front L/C/R) work best between a 30-45 degree toe-in. They are using SEOS tweeters FWIW. That being said, I have not purchased them yet. I'm attracted to the SEOS design in part due to their wide sound stage (hoping that will mitigate the 'only one good seat' problem).
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post #15 of 422 Old 11-08-2015, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
Oh, and forget about 11.1 or .2 or whatever. Proper treatment, design and placement will take the place of additional effect speakers.
Good point. I have read others' comments that well placed acoustic treatments can make a 5.1 system sound better than a 9.1 system with poor sound treatments. I am leaning toward hiring professional help on the acoustic treatment front, but I'm hoping to do the basic theater layout on my own.

Quote:
Yes, 4 feet even for ceiling speakers. If you don't have the space, you don't have it. It is what it is.
Mike, I'm not sure what you meant by that statement (the '4 feet' part). Are you referring to the vertical separation between the MLP's ears and each ceiling speaker? Or separation from other speakers?

Quote:
I would place the speakers in the ceiling in the drawing. Placement of these speakers should not be haphazard and is extremely important. Work it out in your plan. To do so, you will also need to do a side elevation.
Thanks. I'll work on that next (side elevation diagram). I've been planning 45 degree angles on the vertical plane from the MLP (ear location when seated) to each ceiling speaker. If my visualization is correct - looking at the room on the horizontal plane - connecting the ceiling speakers by imaginary lines would form a square shape with the MLP in the center of the square. I can imagine their proximity to other speakers could be an issue, especially in a room that is 12-13 feet wide.
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post #16 of 422 Old 11-08-2015, 08:05 AM
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Well, the irony is it will likely cost you the same for help on the treatment since the professional has to draw the room anyway. Might as well let them design it too. No additional charge.
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post #17 of 422 Old 11-08-2015, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Have you considered no columns, with false fabric walls as a design solution?
Yes. My preference is for fabric covered walls and virtually no visible bare drywall. I'd like to do fabric walls and columns, but I'm willing to give up on columns if I determine it's not feasible based on other factors.

Quote:
Wouldn't a baffle wall help conserve a little bit of room depth?
Not much.

The front speakers I'm interested in are designed to be used with a lot of toe-in, which wouldn't work in a baffle wall.

I chose not to do a baffle wall for that reason and others (if you like, you can read a lengthy post I wrote on the subject here after conducting a fair amount of research).

Quote:
Have you considered shallower seating options?
Yes, for the row that I won't be sitting in. I don't want to use movie theater style seats though. My kids frequently have friends over, as do my wife and I so anticipate these seats will get used often (back row).
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post #18 of 422 Old 11-08-2015, 03:00 PM
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Take the O2 plan and put an open doorway entrance between the first and second row, then use your current entrance to access the refrigerator and microwave on the left and rack access on the right, You can never have a rack that is too big.
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post #19 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Take the O2 plan and put an open doorway entrance between the first and second row, then use your current entrance to access the refrigerator and microwave on the left and rack access on the right, You can never have a rack that is too big.
Something like this?

I also made the column spacing uniform and moved the rear wall further back from the 2nd row. The screen is shrunk by 10" in width to preserve a front row seating angle that is not too wide (I hope), @ 54°.
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post #20 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 08:31 AM
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That works and allows you to have a fridge and microwave above . I was thinking both the rack and the snacks accessible through the front door but your plan works, maybe better, you need a quiet fridge.

get a slide out rack or put the hole rack on casters. Like the Omnimount 42U rack. it is 24x24 inches

pic from Wayfair


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post #21 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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How to Calculate Atmos Speaker Position (4 ceiling speakers)

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Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
I would place the speakers in the ceiling in the drawing. Placement of these speakers should not be haphazard and is extremely important. Work it out in your plan. To do so, you will also need to do a side elevation.
Mike,

I did a back-of-the-napkin calculation last night. It seems to me the relationship between the MLP's ear height to any given ceiling speaker should form an isosceles right triangle (angle is supposed to be 45° per Dolby Atmos specs). See attached diagram.

So, finding the proper location would work like this presuming my math is correct:
  1. Imagine a point in space that bisects a horizontal line between the center of the MLP's ears.
  2. Imagine a vertical line from that point in space to a point on the ceiling directly above the MLP's head. Measure the distance of that line. Based on the attached diagram that would be measurement "A."
  3. From the point on the ceiling, imagine a horizontal circle on the ceiling where that point is the center of the circle. 0° of the circle will be the point closest to the screen (i.e. facing it directly). Normally this will be the same point directly in front of the MLP's field-of-view when facing the screen. That's presuming the MLP and screen are centered with one another.
  4. Determine 45° angle increments spaced 90° apart on the horizontal circle emanating from the point on the ceiling. The ceiling speaker positions will be in 45° arcs from that 0° point spaced every 90°. So, from 0° the speaker angles will be 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees respectively.
  5. The MLP's ears form a right angle to the ceiling (vertically). The ceiling speaker and ceiling are on the same plane (line). This means the two "legs" of a right triangle are formed by 1) the line from the MLP's ears to the ceiling and 2) an imaginary line from that point on the ceiling to the center of the ceiling speaker. We know the angle connecting these two lines is 90°. We also know the angle of the line from the ceiling to the MLP's ears where it joins an imaginary line from the MLP's ears to the ceiling speaker is 45° (per Dolby spec). Therefore, the 3rd angle must also be 45° and the triangle is an isosceles right triangle. Therefore, mathematically, we know the 2 legs of the triangle are equal in length.
  6. The horizontal distance from the spot on the ceiling to the center of a ceiling speaker is represented by line "B" on the attached diagram. Now the math is out of the way, let's pinpoint each of the 4 ceiling speakers.
  7. Find your LEFT FRONT ceiling speaker location: Create line “B” by measuring along the ceiling the distance of “A” in the direction of a 45° angle LEFT and in FRONT of your MLP; Remember A = B so you simply take your A measurement, determine the correct angle, and measure out the same distance as A to find the end point of line B.
  8. Now find your RIGHT FRONT ceiling speaker location: Create line “B” by measuring along the ceiling the distance of “A” in the direction of a 45° angle RIGHT and in FRONT of your MLP (aka a 135° angle; 90+45=135); Remember A = B
  9. Now find your RIGHT REAR ceiling speaker location: Create line “B” by measuring along the ceiling the distance of “A” in the direction of a 45° angle RIGHT and BEHIND your MLP (aka a 225° angle; 180+45=225); Remember A = B
  10. Now find your LEFT REAR ceiling speaker location: Create line “B” by measuring along the ceiling the distance of “A” in the direction of a 45° angle LEFT and BEHIND your MLP (aka a 315° angle; 270+45=315 or 360-45=315); Remember A = B


Does this sound correct to you? Or do you have a different interpretation of the Dolby Atmos specs?
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post #22 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 09:59 AM
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Wow!! Lots of Math there, but placement is not quite that precise. Keep in mind, Dolby specs are guidelines from where to start, not necessarily the final placement of things. Nothing has been really finalized yet. Testing continues, and specs are subject to change. We are finding some things sound better going against the recommendations. Just depends on room dimensions, speaker type, speaker dimensions, number of rows and where those are located within the room.
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post #23 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
That works and allows you to have a fridge and microwave above . I was thinking both the rack and the snacks accessible through the front door but your plan works, maybe better, you need a quiet fridge.

get a slide out rack or put the hole rack on casters. Like the Omnimount 42U rack. it is 24x24 inches
I was originally thinking of fridge below, rack above. Thanks for the idea on the 24" wide rack, though it would accommodate built-in appliances I'd have to figure out how to mount my 19" rack equipment. Trade-offs.

Yes, agreed that a quiet fridge would be a must-have.

What I don't like about this plan is the line-of-sight from left rear seating to the fridge/rack combo. I know that I could use a smoked glass door, but I'm not a fan of doors on racks or a door covering a fridge that already has a door to begin with. Just another step to access, plus requiring swinging out the door. On the plus side, it would allow a small closet in the upper right quadrant ("north east") for a utilitarian closet or media library.

I find myself favoring this plan (attached), which is a flipped version of the "O-2" diagram. There's still a little tweaking necessary to this diagram, so please review it with a grain-of-salt. For instance, ignore the "C" or ceiling speaker placements. These were rough-in locations and one of them is out of sync with the other 3 as I've been experimenting with 45° placement relative to MLP. Also, the front wide and 2nd row surround speakers will not be there (I'll have wiring there but no speakers for now).


Here's why this concept is growing on me:
  • Entry to HT room is on main floor level (not considering the ramp in the hallway that elevates the floor by 1 5/8" due to the added sub-floor I'm putting down)
  • Allows the use of 2 independent doors versus one double-thick door or back-to-back door configuration
  • The 'east' wall has an existing set of 3 small windows. Placing the rear wall there makes it easier to access those windows if it is ever necessary (though I'm hoping they could be accessed externally if required)
  • I can place a concealed door at the lobby entrance behind the poster and monitor to allow rear access to the front L/C/R speakers
  • A/V rack room oriented so the rack may be accessed while viewing the screen
  • I moved the columns so they are more symmetric, and added rear columns to house the rear speakers
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post #24 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
Dolby specs are guidelines.... Nothing has been really finalized yet. Testing continues, and specs are subject to change. We are finding some things sound better going against the recommendations.
Thanks. Good to know.

Out of curiosity, has it been your experience that angled speakers are useful in ceiling configurations? Or do you prefer downward firing? And if you prefer angled, do you tend to favor angling them toward the MLP or directing the tweeters away from the MLP for more diffuse sound (e.g. at walls, etc.)?

I would imagine there's no "one-size-fits-all" solution, but curious about your experience in terms of what is most common. One of my concerns with using ceiling speakers is hot spotting.
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post #25 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 10:25 AM
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I have never used down firing...yet. By the at, my name is Shawn
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Quote:
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I have never used down firing...yet. By the at, my name is Shawn
Shawn,

Thanks.

Dave
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post #27 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
I was originally thinking of fridge below, rack above. Thanks for the idea on the 24" wide rack, though it would accommodate built-in appliances I'd have to figure out how to mount my 19" rack equipment. Trade-offs.
The outside dimensions on that rack are 24 inside the rails are for standard 17 inch gear

Just to throw something else in the mix, the fridge and rack could swap locations, snack center off the front door, rack as you enter with a nice smoke glass door. That rack is in my Rawlinsway project. built into the wall.

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post #28 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 11:38 AM
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Greetings HTG! Just a quick comment on speakers--in all the diagrams, they are too close together...especially toed in. The ear would strain to connect a pan from the L or R speakers to the first set of surrounds. Also, front soundstage would suffer, methinks.
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post #29 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Just a quick comment on speakers--in all the diagrams, they are too close together...especially toed in.
Matt,

Greetings. Appreciate the comment. So, first those diagrams don't have scaled measurements on the L/C/R positions. I just ball-parked it for illustrative purposes (though I understand the need for a scaled diagram once I am set on the design).

I'm planning a AT screen and have kinda figured all the front speakers ought to be behind it in order to keep the effect of the screen on the front sound uniform across the front sound stage. However, if the consensus is that it's not an issue to have the L/R speakers outside or partially outside the screen area, that would open up more options for me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject?

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post #30 of 422 Old 11-09-2015, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Just to throw something else in the mix, the fridge and rack could swap locations, snack center off the front door, rack as you enter with a nice smoke glass door. That rack is in my Rawlinsway project. built into the wall.
True. That would solve the fridge noise concern.

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