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post #121 of 201 Old 06-16-2016, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Surround primary construction done. Still need to sand and fill some pecks but the lions share is done.
I am really ready to start the finishing process.....after I sweep up about 5" of dust left from making these!

~JH
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post #122 of 201 Old 06-17-2016, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Used a DA sander to knock down any edges and hand sanded the radii after using 'bondo' to fill any nail heads or dings (the lighter streaks are where bondo was applied).

Took them outside and coated them with marine resin with a medium speed catalyzer (about 1hr). You could also use the off the shelf 'home depot' fiberglass resin with the same results. I used 16oz to cover 90% off all 6 speakers. The next coat will take significantly less and I will stop at 2. This coat looks dull as much of it soaks into the wood; the second coat will look very glossy and have significant build. I used a chemically compatible 3.5" roller to apply the resin. To apply a second coat I will 'de-wax' by wiping down with acetone (and apply without scuffing first).

The REASON I coat my speakers with resin is for several reasons (*note that I am a huge proponent of resin [or other polyester polymer coating]:

-It will water proof the speakers. You can actually make outdoor speakers with this technique.
-It will significantly increase the strength of the speaker and protect it from 'dings'.
-It will fill any seam gaps
-It seals the partial board and make a perfect plastic shell to apply color/clear coats. If you are doing a veneer clearly 'plasti coating' is not really necessary. I do however really recommend it for any solid color.

I dont know if anyone else resin coats their speakers but I can assure you that if you try it, you will likely never build a speaker without doing it!

~JH
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post #123 of 201 Old 06-21-2016, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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After the second resin coat I leveled with a DA with 120g.





Ready for a wipe down and painting.




Took the easy way out and painted the speaker in a high build 'hammered finish' paint. I really didnt even need to level the substrate if I was going to use this paint (it hides any inconsistencies) but it didnt take long to buzz it down so no real loss.

This paint forms a hard candy shell on stuff. I opted to use it because its really easy to clean and....well...I was able to roll on this finish in a few seconds with minimal clean up.

-Now.....5 more to go! (*note the worst part was using a razor knife to clean up any build around the speaker recesses. None of the speakers would fit after the finish was applied!).

Also....
How about that butt-ugly white tile island! I am doing concrete counters as soon as I get this theater thing done.

~JH
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post #124 of 201 Old 07-22-2016, 07:15 AM
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Update?
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post #125 of 201 Old 09-27-2016, 08:06 AM
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JH,
What CAD software did you use to produce the top views and rendering? Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #126 of 201 Old 09-27-2016, 12:24 PM
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post #127 of 201 Old 09-27-2016, 12:55 PM
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FYI most of your photos are not appearing. Looks like facebook expired the links?

Interested in seeing the panels.

Tim
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post #128 of 201 Old 10-23-2016, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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After taking a few months off of the theater I am back in the saddle.

Just so no one will think I have been being lazy:

Rebuilt a basket case motorcycle (1991 yz125)
before....




after...





Built 2 guitars (matching Strat and Tele, solid 1 piece Koa with brazilian rosewood fretboards). They are not complete but close (and this pic is a few weeks old).



Spent a few weeks in Hawaii...



remodeled a bathroom, cleaned up a ton of stuff in the garage and on and on....

Put the foot down with the wife (yeah right!) and told her I was full hot on completing the theater.

So now....Phase 2 of the project.
After doing a basic assessment I have determined that most of the cutting work is done. This means I can now relocate the saws to the shop, clean up and start to concentrate on finish work vs heavy construction. While some cutting will need to be made I feel it will be better to walk to the shop vs making more mess in the theater area.

To kick off the start of the finishing phase I purchased the Marantz 7011. It will be delivered this Tuesday and I am so excited I could just poop myself. I really dig how it is powered AND has pre outs. This will get me into an operational theater with the ability to jack the horsepower with amps in the future.




Wife went shopping so it was a perfect time for me to do the final assembly on the surrounds. I grossly underestimated how much time this would take. It took about 2h per speaker. I really thought I could blow through all of these in a couple hours. (*note that 1 hour each was me chipping out lazy drips in the speaker flush routs so the drivers would sit flat. Ill do better next time keeping drips and buildup out of the holes!




First time being able to hear the surround speakers! I hooked them up to an old 'theater in box' just to see if the drivers were XO'ed properly and they were working. I am SUPER happy with the sound of these. They are very efficient and balanced; even before they are broken in I can tell they are going to sing. They dont produce a ton of lows but they have a nice hit and sound snappy without being harsh.




I know they say 'dont get your theater working before its finished' but I dont think this setup will make me stop moving forward. I did it mostly as a joke but must admit it was really exciting to play the theaters first movie!!!! (Force Awakens).


The stupid thing is.....
Somehow I managed to only order enough drivers for 4 surrounds! I still need to do 2 more surround so now I am stuck with ordering more speakers and waiting (what seems forever) for them to arrive from PE (no ding on them, they ship quick but its a 5 business day wait to PDX)

Next is a major clean up, finish columns, build the screen wall, make sub cab, make LCRs and start making fabric covered panels to cover walls and ceiling, install carpet and do all the wiring.....should only be a about week right!!!! LOL


~JH
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post #129 of 201 Old 10-26-2016, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Look what arrived! The 7011!
So excited! The wife just sees it as 'another box' but I know the magic that is contained inside.







Good god that seems like a lot of connections!

~JH
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post #130 of 201 Old 10-26-2016, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
After taking a few months off of the theater I am back in the saddle.

Just so no one will think I have been being lazy:

Rebuilt a basket case motorcycle (1991 yz125)
before....




after...





Built 2 guitars (matching Strat and Tele, solid 1 piece Koa with brazilian rosewood fretboards). They are not complete but close (and this pic is a few weeks old).



Spent a few weeks in Hawaii...



remodeled a bathroom, cleaned up a ton of stuff in the garage and on and on....

Put the foot down with the wife (yeah right!) and told her I was full hot on completing the theater.

So now....Phase 2 of the project.
After doing a basic assessment I have determined that most of the cutting work is done. This means I can now relocate the saws to the shop, clean up and start to concentrate on finish work vs heavy construction. While some cutting will need to be made I feel it will be better to walk to the shop vs making more mess in the theater area.

To kick off the start of the finishing phase I purchased the Marantz 7011. It will be delivered this Tuesday and I am so excited I could just poop myself. I really dig how it is powered AND has pre outs. This will get me into an operational theater with the ability to jack the horsepower with amps in the future.




Wife went shopping so it was a perfect time for me to do the final assembly on the surrounds. I grossly underestimated how much time this would take. It took about 2h per speaker. I really thought I could blow through all of these in a couple hours. (*note that 1 hour each was me chipping out lazy drips in the speaker flush routs so the drivers would sit flat. Ill do better next time keeping drips and buildup out of the holes!




First time being able to hear the surround speakers! I hooked them up to an old 'theater in box' just to see if the drivers were XO'ed properly and they were working. I am SUPER happy with the sound of these. They are very efficient and balanced; even before they are broken in I can tell they are going to sing. They dont produce a ton of lows but they have a nice hit and sound snappy without being harsh.




I know they say 'dont get your theater working before its finished' but I dont think this setup will make me stop moving forward. I did it mostly as a joke but must admit it was really exciting to play the theaters first movie!!!! (Force Awakens).


The stupid thing is.....
Somehow I managed to only order enough drivers for 4 surrounds! I still need to do 2 more surround so now I am stuck with ordering more speakers and waiting (what seems forever) for them to arrive from PE (no ding on them, they ship quick but its a 5 business day wait to PDX)

Next is a major clean up, finish columns, build the screen wall, make sub cab, make LCRs and start making fabric covered panels to cover walls and ceiling, install carpet and do all the wiring.....should only be a about week right!!!! LOL


~JH
Nice grain on the git-fiddles ( guitars) Post some pics when the hardware is on. Nice work!
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post #131 of 201 Old 10-29-2016, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice grain on the git-fiddles ( guitars) Post some pics when the hardware is on. Nice work!
Thanks man. After I left Peavey guitar r&d in the mid 90s I swore I would never build another guitar. Its funny how a few (25) years can heal some wounds.




I just finished a color test sample on a scrap piece of Koa. I will be using a black sandback 'black bleed' into an orange dye for the finish.



(the orange of the 2 color samples; natural is un-dyed for reference)



My son learning a valuable lesson about the physics of stopping a spinning metal object with his forehead.

Installed carpet on the riser, ran speaker wire down the columns and started to install the column faces. I built the columns so the entire column could be removed and replaced within a few minutes. I did this if I ever wanted to change the speakers (make the columns deeper), didnt like the design, wanted to add lights or whatever.

Also, really got to audition the surround speakers with the Marantz. These things rock!

~JH
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post #132 of 201 Old 10-30-2016, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Column faces on. Trying to get dust off of everything. I am much happier doing the sawing/routing outside of the theater room.

I had 3 more lower acoustic panels to fab/finish and about 8 to wrap with cloth. Got all the panels (less black paint on them) made and now need to order the cloth. Will use fluffy behind the panels to test may use roxul or roxul/fluffy in the future.

Still need to order drivers for the 2 'naked' surrounds!

~JH
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post #133 of 201 Old 10-31-2016, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Picked up more cloth and the lower panels in the back are now wrapped. I still have 3-4 more in the front to wrap after I first get them painted black.

Still need to decide about colors and fabric for the upper panels (walls, soffit and ceiling).

Very soon I am going to start building the sub cabs. I am planning on using 12X of the Dayton UM15-22 (sealed @ 3.25' per). I am going to build the cabs similar to professional sound reinforcement cabs (6 cabs, 2 drivers each) stackable with rubber feet, recess handles, metal corners ect.


~JH
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post #134 of 201 Old 11-04-2016, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Screen is on the way!!!! (material anyway.....)
I opted for the Seymour Center Stage UF.

I originally had an order with 'spandexworld' but they jacked me around with not liking my shipping address being different than my billing (because I dont want it to get shipped to my office). First they called and approved it, then changed their mind, then send an email 2 days later and insisted on it being shipped to my office....Needless to say they pizzed me off and I told them to stick it. I dont need that sort of aggravation in my life.

Funny, Seymour Screens didnt have any issue at all with shipping to my home with the same card. The material is a little more expensive than spandex but at the end of the day not too much more. Im happy with the choice, will have to see once it arrives.


Also got all the lowers wrapped and columns primed and painted. Will be able to start on the screen wall as soon as the screen is made.

~JH
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post #135 of 201 Old 11-04-2016, 07:29 PM
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The Seymour UF material came out after I had already built my spandex screen.
I have compared a sample and though the difference wasn't night and day I would choose UF despite the price.
Slightly less "blooming" with UF, slightly more gain than my white spandex over black, and no question about color accuracy with UF.
In the end, I think you'll be glad that Spandexworld jacked you around.
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post #136 of 201 Old 11-12-2016, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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The Seymour UF material came out after I had already built my spandex screen.
I have compared a sample and though the difference wasn't night and day I would choose UF despite the price.
Slightly less "blooming" with UF, slightly more gain than my white spandex over black, and no question about color accuracy with UF.
In the end, I think you'll be glad that Spandexworld jacked you around.
David, the material arrived today, had some good correspondence with 'Jon' from Seymour and the material looks great. I am really happy I went this route.





Big tube arrived!!!!! Time to make a screen!!!!! Its going to be 130".





I decided to go a little different route than the standard 'diy' screen. I have reasons why but wont go into it until further on in the build.

For this screen I used rectangular .083 .75X1.75.

The metal was cut so the completed section would be 1.5" smaller than the screen size.....


used a splint while tacking to make sure the thing was straight at the transition. I was SOOOOO close to having the long sections be 1 piece but was short a few inches so I had to do it this way.





After welding up the frame, grinding the welds flush and painting I made 1.5" strips from a high grade ply and attached around the perimeter with self tapping K-lath (drove hard enough to 'self recess'). After attaching the plywood I buzzed the edges with a .75" roundover.

I still need to go over the strips again and do some hand sanding but must admit....I really like the way it turned out.



I put some structural braces in at a 45 in tension to keep the frame square and ridged. The entire frame weighs (est) 25-30#. Its very manageable by one person. Its being held in place by a drywall screw at each end.





View from the second row, on riser and standing and at head distance.

After a staple run to the Depot Ill be having a 1 man staple party tomorrow.

~JH
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post #137 of 201 Old 11-13-2016, 07:49 AM
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Very nice, but isn't the center vertical support going to interfere with placement of your center channel speaker?
I know the metal tubing is thin, but it is right where your high frequency driver should be located?
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post #138 of 201 Old 11-13-2016, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Very nice, but isn't the center vertical support going to interfere with placement of your center channel speaker?
I know the metal tubing is thin, but it is right where your high frequency driver should be located?
Dude, I really didnt think that a .75" rail in front of a wide dispersion compression driver would make any appreciable difference....but....I said ''f-it'' I can fix it in 30 minutes now or rebuild the entire screen later if it does.





Per Davids comment I modded the screen frame.




Turned my beautiful Pratt truss into some abomination......added weight and decreased load ability. I sure as H wont be driving a bus over this one! LOL

-In truth it STILL 100X stronger than it needs to be. I didnt run an FEA calc on it, or even use 4130 but from the seat of my pants...it will fly.


-opted to not put the screen material on the frame until later. I still have too many 'sharp ended' things happening in the theater. Its really not important to have the screen material on as long as I have the frame.

~JH
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post #139 of 201 Old 11-13-2016, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Put some Heresys up there for size reference. I am building the baffle wall to easily be modified to accommodate a variety of speakers for future changes. I am on the fence about getting the new QSC E15s for the LCR but heard some of the dirt cheap (and butt ugly) Behringer B215xl speakers with a good sub playing music with the mindset of listening to them as a theater speaker vs a PA and must admit they are better than I ever expected. I had never liked any of there stuff for PA use but for the HT application they are worth auditioning before writing them off.

The screen wall 'header' is built stout to as the screen will be hinged to allow the screen to raise via some gas springs (and maybe an electric linear actuator). This means the header will have some lateral loading as well as change from tension (screen down) to compression (screen up).

~JH
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post #140 of 201 Old 11-14-2016, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have any input/feedback on my proposed sub placement?

I can neatly tuck 8 (Dayton UM15") under the screen, side by side. The pic is a hack job on photoshop for reference (*yes, only 7 subs are pictured!). The drivers would actually sit back a few inches and there would be a grill of some sort in front of them.


Is this sub placement and configuration OK?

~JH

Oh...and not that its HT related but this was going on down the hall while I was building the screen wall (every 10 minutes I had to shoot another clear coat):
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post #141 of 201 Old 11-14-2016, 09:59 AM
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What enclosure are the subs in? How are they configured?

Generally speaking you are not going to get a flat response throughout the listening positions like that. YMMV.

Tim
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post #142 of 201 Old 11-14-2016, 02:30 PM
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Generally speaking you are not going to get a flat response throughout the listening positions like that. YMMV.
Tim


Agreed. A small handful of hi-end professionals could run the details of your room through a very complicated acoustics modeling program and give you a custom sub layout that will likely produce excellent results....or you can simply stick a sub in each of the four corners of your room and produce similar results. If 8 X 15" drivers is the magic setup for you then two in each corner would work well, though from what I have read 4 X 18" is probably a better, more space conscious decision.
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post #143 of 201 Old 11-14-2016, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Agreed. A small handful of hi-end professionals could run the details of your room through a very complicated acoustics modeling program and give you a custom sub layout that will likely produce excellent results....or you can simply stick a sub in each of the four corners of your room and produce similar results. If 8 X 15" drivers is the magic setup for you then two in each corner would work well, though from what I have read 4 X 18" is probably a better, more space conscious decision.

The room wont accommodate subs in the aft corners; all subs will have to be configured behind the screen. Truth is I would feel like hiring someone to run a room calc as an 'easy way out'. 99% of the reason I do this is for the journey and while I will accept advice on this forum Id rather experiment, make mistakes and fix them (even if they cost me $) vs having a pro do it for me. I know this is self defeating behavior but as the scars of 42 years show I wont (cant) change.

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post #144 of 201 Old 11-14-2016, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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What enclosure are the subs in? How are they configured?

Generally speaking you are not going to get a flat response throughout the listening positions like that. YMMV.

Tim
Tim,

Havent purchased the subs nor built the boxes yet however was going:

Sealed
3.25' per
Slight 'v' with the tops and bottoms capped


Very similar in appearance (except sealed and drivers angled in slightly) to:




Wanted 8 as that gives me an easily configurable/changeable ohm load for different applications and amps.

Was going to use a pair of the inuke 6ks, one for each group of 4.

I am willing to do 4-18" if that is considered to be a better path. I can also put the subs at LCR level as well. There is a bunch of room back there.


Also the LCRs go to 50-55hz so the subs will be xo'ed pretty low.

Thanks David and Tim for the input.

~JH

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post #145 of 201 Old 11-14-2016, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
Tim,

Havent purchased the subs nor built the boxes yet however was going:

Sealed
3.25' per
Slight 'v' with the tops and bottoms capped


Very similar in appearance (except sealed and drivers angled in slightly) to:

Wanted 8 as that gives me an easily configurable/changeable ohm load for different applications and amps.

Was going to use a pair of the inuke 6ks, one for each group of 4.

I am willing to do 4-18" if that is considered to be a better path. I can also put the subs at LCR level as well. There is a bunch of room back there.


Also the LCRs go to 50-55hz so the subs will be xo'ed pretty low.

Thanks David and Tim for the input.

~JH
So are you thinking 2 subs in a single sealed enclosure with 6.5 cu ft? I don't have winisd on this laptop so I can't see what would work best for an enclosure.

It's likely the best route is 8 individual cabinets, so you can orient them as required.

Along the front the best location is going to be quarter points-- eg in a 10' wide room the center of the sub 2.5 feet from each side wall.

Sometimes it measures better front-firing, sometimes up-firing. You might even stack them two high; one up- and one front-firing (or maybe both front-firing).

Generically speaking, best response room-wide is going to be at least two in the front and two in the rear. If you can get two in the middle that's even better.

What happens when you put them all in the same area is that you get peaks and dips in the bass response. One seat may have booming bass; move over a seat and the bass is blah. Yeah, you can notice it when you start dealing with this much power. Really notice it.

If you have no measuring equipment I would do 1/4 points along the front and rear walls. If you have a mic and REW you can mess around with locations.. A few inches makes a huge difference.

Tim
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post #146 of 201 Old 11-14-2016, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post
So are you thinking 2 subs in a single sealed enclosure with 6.5 cu ft? I don't have winisd on this laptop so I can't see what would work best for an enclosure.

It's likely the best route is 8 individual cabinets, so you can orient them as required.

Along the front the best location is going to be quarter points-- eg in a 10' wide room the center of the sub 2.5 feet from each side wall.

Sometimes it measures better front-firing, sometimes up-firing. You might even stack them two high; one up- and one front-firing (or maybe both front-firing).

Generically speaking, best response room-wide is going to be at least two in the front and two in the rear. If you can get two in the middle that's even better.

What happens when you put them all in the same area is that you get peaks and dips in the bass response. One seat may have booming bass; move over a seat and the bass is blah. Yeah, you can notice it when you start dealing with this much power. Really notice it.

If you have no measuring equipment I would do 1/4 points along the front and rear walls. If you have a mic and REW you can mess around with locations.. A few inches makes a huge difference.

Tim
I just got the Marantz 7011 with Audyssey. Dont laugh I havent even read the manual and dont know if the Audyssey has any RTA functions or eq functions.

-I never meant that the '2 subs in a box' would be a mono box with 6.5 but a divided box with 2 subs @ 3.25 each side. Building individual boxes isnt really any more work to build vs a multi sub box so this is no problem.

In your opinion would 4x 18" be better or more practical than the 8x 15"?


If you can get two in the middle that's even better.

Wow, that gave me an idea. I have about 3' of 'dead space' on my riser behind the seat row. I very well might be able to build a sub cab behind the second row seats. Ill have to do some measurements!

~JH
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post #147 of 201 Old 11-15-2016, 12:17 AM
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Balancing subs don't have to be the same as your 'main' subs.

Like you, I don't have the room for 15s at the rear of the room, I can maybe squeeze a couple of 12s back there. I'm planning on some shallow cabinets to be hidden within my side walls with 10 inch drivers - in theory I can run these floor to ceiling, and move a decent amount of air. Hopefully, this will flatten the curves a little.

Anyway, my point is that when measuring what size boxes you can squeeze in behind your second row, or wherever, don't discount your available space thinking you have to fit in the same size boxes as you have up front, smaller balancing subs will work.
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post #148 of 201 Old 11-15-2016, 03:55 AM
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Personally I would go with more 15's. Not sure what the end results are as far as SPL and Hz, but I like the idea of having more subs to balance out the response across the listening area.

Your first step should be to get the response as flat as you can by properly locating the subs-- then let Audyssey do the fine tuning. If you dig deep enough you can find threads where AUdyssey has really neutered the bass to try and correct issues.

Tim
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post #149 of 201 Old 11-15-2016, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post
Personally I would go with more 15's. Not sure what the end results are as far as SPL and Hz, but I like the idea of having more subs to balance out the response across the listening area.
...............
Tim
Oh, absolutely! I was just trying to point out that if the space available precluded the use of matched 15" drivers, it need not prevent extra balancing subs being employed; and if they can't be matched, not to be overly concerned by it, as other options will work too.
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OK, thanks for the advice all.

I will do the 8x 15", separate cabs so I can experiment with locations.

-Its funny because I had always grew up in the audio world with "do not have subs different distances from the listener to avoid cancellations by out of alignment phasing" mentality. Separate boxes will allow for experimentation; I like that and am interested to see how its going to sound best. This also means I need to settle on the chairs I am going to use to get real dimensions.

Oh...

And a buddy just sold me 4 of the ugly as sin Behringer b215xls for 200$. It was too good of a deal to walk from to at least get something up front. I dont imagine they will be there long but it will give me an idea of what I want more or less of.

~JH
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