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post #1 of 116 Old 07-08-2016, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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The Underground Apolkalypse Theater

Just getting started on my first home theater building. It's call the Underground Apolkalypse because I'm building it in the basement (Underground), and using mainly Polk speakers (A-polk-alypse). I already had some of the Polks, so to keep in budget I just finished out the system instead of starting from scratch. I'm trying to stay in a $10K budget for everything. My room will be 12x16. I am going with a 7.1.4 setup.

Here is a list of the equipment so far. I am still haven't decided on a sub or receiver
Mains: Polk RTi A9
Center: Polk CSi A6 $249
Surrounds: Polk Fxi A6 $350
Rears:Polk RTi A3 $250
In-Ceiling: Polk 70RT $532

Subwoofer (~$1000): No sub yet, looking at Hsu VTF-15H MK2, PSA V1500, Rythmik FV15HP?
My local stereo store said all these were junk and people trade them in for "real" subwoofers all the time.
Just planning a single big sub for now. I might add a second later.
I'll take any suggestions.

Receiver ??? $1500 budget
Amp: Monolith 7 $1200

Projector: ??? $2500 budget
Screen: 114" 2.35:1

The room will be in the corner of the basement, so two wall will be against poured concrete, and two open to the rest of the basements. For the outside walls I am just doing 2x3 stud walls, insulated with R13, then double drywall with green glue. I'm using resilient clips to frame the walls to the joist. There is also a layer of Platon and foam insulation between the concrete and outside stud walls. The interior walls will be 2x6 staggered studs, with R13, and double drywall inside and out with green glue on both. For the ceiling, I am using resilient clips, R19 insulation, and again double drywall and green glue.

Final Equipment List

Speakers

2x - Polk RTiA9 Floostanding Speaker
1x - Polk CSiA6 Center Channel
2x - Polk FXiA6 Surround Speakers
2x - Polk RTIA3 Surround Speakers
4x - Polk 70-RT In-Ceiling Speakers
2x - Sunfire HRS-12 12" Subwoofers
1x - Power Sound Audio XS30

Audio
Marantz SR7010 Receiver
Monoprice Monolith 7 Amplifier
Pro-Ject - Debut Carbon Esprit SB
Emotiva XPS1 Phono Pre-amplifier

Video
Epson 5040ub Projector
Oppo UHD-203 Player
Xbox One
Roku Premiere+
nVidia Shield
Amazon FireTV 4K
HP ENVY 750-247c Desktop, Intel Core i7-6700 Quad-Core 3.4GHz, NVIDIA GTX950 4GB, 24GB DDR4

Racks
2x - Royal Racks 21U Metal Rack
2x - Furman 2400 AR 20A Power Conditioners

Wiring
14 AWG Monoprice Speaker Wire
In Wall HDMI - Blue Jean Cables
Rack HDMI - Monoprice Certified Premium

Seating
3x - Southern Motion Tango Power Recliners
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Last edited by siuengr; 02-15-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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post #2 of 116 Old 07-08-2016, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Final Pictures, for now.
View from MLP with mostly everything installed.



This is is, my little theater


A little acoustic treatment for the door


Plaques next to the entry



Racks

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post #3 of 116 Old 07-08-2016, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Original plan. It looks very tight right now. I'm not sure I will have room for the back bar.
Red are speakers, Yellow are lights.


Getting the area cleaned out.


Platon on wall and floor, insulating foam going down.


3/4" Plywood on the floor, and more insulating foam on the wall


The first wall is up, yeah. Yes, the end is leaning forward. I hadn't put the clips on yet.


Resilient Clip tying the wall to the joist.


Looking forward to keep going on this project. I'm about two weeks in now. AVSforum has been invaluable so far.

I starting to think about all of the wiring that is going to be required.

Looking for any advice or suggestions!!!

Got the second wall up and the soffit around the HVAC.

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post #4 of 116 Old 07-08-2016, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 116 Old 07-08-2016, 11:25 PM
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First off forget budget name brand subs all together. A good sub from a reputable brand will be a few grand minimum. Just build yourself one or two and plan to upgrade lol. It's never ending with subs or at least around these parts it isn't. For your size room a tuned sub or horn loaded sub should give you quite a bit of output. And remember placement is key, well after 2,3,4,5,.... that is. Seriously. I'd start out with either two vented 18s or one horn loaded 15-18. Getting down to 15-20hz with vented is a lot easier than loaded when all things are considered, eg- space, ease of building, placement, WAF, etc.... A clone amp would be more than enough to start off with and probably can find one here in the classifieds.

Plan for more dedicated circuits than you ever plan on using. Can never have too much power on tap.

Run conduit everywhere you think a possible future speaker/cable could be needed and put a couple pull strings in them.

I wouldn't want that back row so crowded personally. How many people will be using the theater regularly? Plan for that amount and see what the optimal layout should be. If need to switch the room 90* way you can get that extra seat in there if will have that many regularly. Bean bags and cheap folding chair/table sets come come in handy when extra seating is needed for that once in a 3-4 month period. You would be surprised how many folding chairs can be cramped into a space when seating is sparse.

If switch the room 90* the surround sides/back/width channels will sound better than being overly close to them. That's one of only two things I would have done differently on my build. I would have built wider and higher. A down side is PJ throw being shorter but with today's options that shouldn't be a problem. Just a thought.

You have a nice little space to work with and can make it quite nice if plan correctly.

Good luck!
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post #6 of 116 Old 07-09-2016, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
First off forget budget name brand subs all together. A good sub from a reputable brand will be a few grand minimum. Just build yourself one or two and plan to upgrade lol. It's never ending with subs or at least around these parts it isn't. For your size room a tuned sub or horn loaded sub should give you quite a bit of output. And remember placement is key, well after 2,3,4,5,.... that is. Seriously. I'd start out with either two vented 18s or one horn loaded 15-18. Getting down to 15-20hz with vented is a lot easier than loaded when all things are considered, eg- space, ease of building, placement, WAF, etc.... A clone amp would be more than enough to start off with and probably can find one here in the classifieds.

Plan for more dedicated circuits than you ever plan on using. Can never have too much power on tap.

Run conduit everywhere you think a possible future speaker/cable could be needed and put a couple pull strings in them.

I wouldn't want that back row so crowded personally. How many people will be using the theater regularly? Plan for that amount and see what the optimal layout should be. If need to switch the room 90* way you can get that extra seat in there if will have that many regularly. Bean bags and cheap folding chair/table sets come come in handy when extra seating is needed for that once in a 3-4 month period. You would be surprised how many folding chairs can be cramped into a space when seating is sparse.

If switch the room 90* the surround sides/back/width channels will sound better than being overly close to them. That's one of only two things I would have done differently on my build. I would have built wider and higher. A down side is PJ throw being shorter but with today's options that shouldn't be a problem. Just a thought.

You have a nice little space to work with and can make it quite nice if plan correctly.

Good luck!
Yeah, a few grand is out of the budget for a sub, and I barely have time to work on the theater, let alone build a sub. I have looked into it, but not sure I'm there yet. This whole project is because of the WAF. My current room is getting taken over my baby toys, and little ones like to pull cables. She is getting a dedicated play room, and I get a theater. I also can't watch anything over -35 because the room is right next to the nursery, hence all the soundproofing. I still doubt it is enough to hold in any of those subs at reference levels.

I have already found a problem with the big subs. I am planning a 120" 16:9 tab tensioned motorized screen. Most of the time i would keep it in a 2.35 ratio, but could extend it for big TV events. With my finished ceiling, I will only have 78" floor to ceiling. The screen comes down about 62" from the ceiling, meaning my sub can't be taller than 16" or it will be blocking the screen. Most of the 15" subs are 18" wide, so even laying them on their side they would block the screen. I guess I could place it along the side of the wall, but if it is a dead spot, I don't have a lot of options to move it. I'm thinking I might start out with two SB-2000's to start things off, since they will tuck in nicely under the screen.

I am also thinking three dedicated circuits, two by the equipment rack, and one for the rest of the room. I am planning on running conduit as much as possible, and running multiple HDMI and Cat6 runs.

I thought about the 90* turn, but the two projectors I have been looking at, epson 5040 and sony 45ES, both have a throw distance of 11' or more.
The wife asked why I needed to bar in the back too. "How often will you have that many people over?" That will be a later add on, if needed.

Thanks for the advice!
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post #7 of 116 Old 07-09-2016, 07:38 AM
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Just to add mu .02 regarding subs. I know you are limited by budget (lets face it unless you are someone like Bill Gates who isn't) but a sub is something you really don't want to cut corners on if you can avoid it at all. I know you are also dimension(ly) challenged but if you can find a way to make a Rythmik FV15HP work for you do so. It is an incredible sub from a fantastic company. You won't look back or regret the purchase that I can tell you.

Good luck!

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post #8 of 116 Old 07-09-2016, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post
Just to add mu .02 regarding subs. I know you are limited by budget (lets face it unless you are someone like Bill Gates who isn't) but a sub is something you really don't want to cut corners on if you can avoid it at all. I know you are also dimension(ly) challenged but if you can find a way to make a Rythmik FV15HP work for you do so. It is an incredible sub from a fantastic company. You won't look back or regret the purchase that I can tell you.

Good luck!

Regards,

RTROSE
So would it be worth a smaller screen size to accommodate the Rythmik sub? It would work with the 2.35 screen. I just would be able to get the max size at 16:9.
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Can subs go in the rear corners? Or side wall? Or corners and side wall down the road? It seems like a crying shame to go through all the trouble to sound proof, and then not add some big sound to the sound proof room. And multiple subs will like help smooth everything out.
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post #10 of 116 Old 07-09-2016, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siuengr View Post
So would it be worth a smaller screen size to accommodate the Rythmik sub? It would work with the 2.35 screen. I just would be able to get the max size at 16:9.
Screen size is a personal preference much like "what speakers are best" it is a very subjective subject. What my suggestion would be is to "test" several different screen sizes and see what you are willing to sacrifice or if you are willing to sacrifice at all. I personally would sacrifice a little in screen size to get the impact of the FV15HP. I would also suggest looking at other offerings Rythmik has and reaching out to them for suggestions for your space. Some of their smaller subs are excellent performers in their respective classes as well. Food for thought.

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post #11 of 116 Old 07-09-2016, 08:39 AM
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Subs can go just about anywhere so don't get hung up on the screen height ordeal. The sub is the most important speaker (after center)for home theater so it's worth getting one that will play at reference at minimum.
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post #12 of 116 Old 07-09-2016, 09:26 AM
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so it's worth getting one

Or three or more.
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post #13 of 116 Old 07-09-2016, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess there are a few places it could go. On its side in front of the screen, on the side of the room, or in the back corner. I am planning on running sub cable to the front and back of the room.

I think I am already convinced to stick with the big sub. 80% of the time the screen will be used for 2.35 content, so there won't be an issue of interference.
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post #14 of 116 Old 07-10-2016, 01:36 PM
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have a few suggestions based on room size and speakers(i have a similar sized room and am running polk rti8 csi5 and fxi6)
since your using an amplifier id skip getting a receiver and go for a preamp, you can get a marantz 7702kmii for ~1400 @ accessoriesforelss if you dont mind referbs, as for the sub id recommend a svs pb1000(i have one of these and its great for its size) or pb2000 they are 499 and 799 respectively then id stretch the budget a bit to get an amp for the in ceiling speakers(emotiva A-500 for $500) as for a projector id probably wait on seeing how the new crop of HDR capable projectors are if you want to use a 4K player/streaming.

pcm=potato
bitstream=patato
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have a few suggestions based on room size and speakers(i have a similar sized room and am running polk rti8 csi5 and fxi6)
since your using an amplifier id skip getting a receiver and go for a preamp, you can get a marantz 7702kmii for ~1400 @ accessoriesforelss if you dont mind referbs, as for the sub id recommend a svs pb1000(i have one of these and its great for its size) or pb2000 they are 499 and 799 respectively then id stretch the budget a bit to get an amp for the in ceiling speakers(emotiva A-500 for $500) as for a projector id probably wait on seeing how the new crop of HDR capable projectors are if you want to use a 4K player/streaming.
I probably would have went for a preamp if I didn't need to power the ceiling speakers, but with the 7702 already costing more than he 7010, and requiring another amp, the cost was a little much. I actually just found a certified refub 7010 for $1100, so I went ahead and ordered it.

For the sub, I have been looking at the PB2000 and the Rythmic L22 or F12, but still not sure if I need a 12 or 15. I know you can never have too much bass, but if get something like a FV15HP and can't turn it up halfway without shaking the rest of the house, then it is kind of a waste.
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post #16 of 116 Old 07-10-2016, 05:50 PM
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Curious why you used Platon on the basement walls.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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post #17 of 116 Old 07-10-2016, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Curious why you used Platon on the basement walls.
I have had some water leaks in other areas of my basement, so I used it for waterproofing if there ends up being a leak it that part of the basement. I figured it would provide another layer of separation between the theater walls and the house walls.
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I probably would have went for a preamp if I didn't need to power the ceiling speakers, but with the 7702 already costing more than he 7010, and requiring another amp, the cost was a little much. I actually just found a certified refub 7010 for $1100, so I went ahead and ordered it.

For the sub, I have been looking at the PB2000 and the Rythmic L22 or F12, but still not sure if I need a 12 or 15. I know you can never have too much bass, but if get something like a FV15HP and can't turn it up halfway without shaking the rest of the house, then it is kind of a waste.
I hear you and understand what you are saying, but having extra headroom is never a waste. Having performance in reserve is also a good thing. Kind of like really only needing a straight 4 under the hood but actually having a big V8 for when you have to pass the semi on that back country road. Nice to know you have that even if you only need it once in a while.

Regards,

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I hear you and understand what you are saying, but having extra headroom is never a waste. Having performance in reserve is also a good thing. Kind of like really only needing a straight 4 under the hood but actually having a big V8 for when you have to pass the semi on that back country road. Nice to know you have that even if you only need it once in a while.

Regards,

RTROSE
I know, I know. A lot of people are saying that some like the Rythmic L22 or F12 will give me more than I will need in a room my size. I will probably end with a big one. If I have too many dead spots, I guess I'll have to suck it up and get another sub.
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Not too much progress yesterday. Went and got some more lumber for the 3rd wall. This is the most complicated one, since it has the cut out for the equipment rack and door.

Still trying to make a decision on a sub. For my 1200 cu ft room, it is sounding like 2 12's will be a much better solution than a single 15", and I should be able to get just as much thump out of it.
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Quote:
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I have had some water leaks in other areas of my basement, so I used it for waterproofing if there ends up being a leak it that part of the basement. I figured it would provide another layer of separation between the theater walls and the house walls.
Not sure Platon was made for waterproofing basement interiors. If you develop a water leak on the concrete wall, that Platon will not provide any waterproofing, only diversion.


What the Platon does act as is a vapor barrier. I would check your code to see what is required for basement vapor barriers in your area. Also make sure you don't add a second vapor barrier, as that would trap moisture.

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post #22 of 116 Old 07-11-2016, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Not sure Platon was made for waterproofing basement interiors. If you develop a water leak on the concrete wall, that Platon will not provide any waterproofing, only diversion.


What the Platon does act as is a vapor barrier. I would check your code to see what is required for basement vapor barriers in your area. Also make sure you don't add a second vapor barrier, as that would trap moisture.
I didn't really mean waterproofing. I have a drainage system in my basement, so it is just a diversion to keep it off the wood an direct it toward the drain.
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Quote:
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I know, I know. A lot of people are saying that some like the Rythmic L22 or F12 will give me more than I will need in a room my size. I will probably end with a big one. If I have too many dead spots, I guess I'll have to suck it up and get another sub.
One thing about headroom in subs is less distortion at reasonable listening levels. The more headroom, the better, and better still if you can listen as loud as you want without making the sub really work.
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One thing about headroom in subs is less distortion at reasonable listening levels. The more headroom, the better, and better still if you can listen as loud as you want without making the sub really work.
I called PSA today and talked to them about it. They also suggested a big sub, even suggesting the V1800, but that is just too big, just to provide plenty of overhead.
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Almost have half the third wall done. Wasn't able to finish before someone's bedtime. It's a staggered stud, with the cut out for the equipment nook at the end.


The boneyard of theaters past.


A pile of the new stuff.
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post #26 of 116 Old 07-13-2016, 06:59 AM
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I'm at the same stage you are, I see you framed around that duct work. I had a very similar situation and got my Framer to remove it and relocate it back up in the stud bays. SO worth the little extra he's gonna charge me to not have the boxed soffit in the room.


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Originally Posted by siuengr View Post
Got the second wall up and the soffit around the HVAC.


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post #27 of 116 Old 07-13-2016, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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There was no where for me to move it. I had my hvac guy take a look, but it would run into the stairs if it went straight across. It is about as small as possible how it is.

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post #28 of 116 Old 07-13-2016, 09:07 AM
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Oh,
OK, I'm sure if it could have been done an HVAC guys would have done it.


My builder did the exact same thing, easier for them to go down and under the studs, then to go through with t big hole....what pissed me off is they DID go through in another area of the basement, just 2 studs. My new area was 5.


I didn't make my guys go straight through 5, they relocated it outside the theater.


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post #29 of 116 Old 07-13-2016, 10:29 AM
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I think that you probably could get away with a pair of 12's in there, but since you will rarely be expanding the screen to full height, I think if it were me I'd be happy with the compromise of a tiny bit of occasional screen blockage to have more bass. After all, a theatre with "Apolkalypse" in its name should be able to deliver some heavy impact! I would try to plan for a pair of sealed 15s or 18s if possible.
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post #30 of 116 Old 07-13-2016, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I sat with the HVAC guy for a while trying to figure out where to go with it, and there just wasn't anywhere to go without going around a few joists. Other that not looking perfect in the room, it won't really affect the flow since it is on the opposite side of the room. Since I could completely get rid of it, it was easier to keep it where it was.
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