Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 412 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12331 of 12454 Old 02-09-2019, 08:16 AM
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I asked about that, but they seem to think acoustic panels wouldn't hold.

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post #12332 of 12454 Old 02-17-2019, 10:23 AM
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I have just started planning the layout/acoustic treatment for the home theater area in the basement. As you see the layout, we have a daylight basement with pretty large space. On one side, we have wet bar/kitchenette and space for pingpong/pool table. The other is where I have projector screen. Right side of that is a passage area going to bedroom behind the projection wall and bathroom.

As I have a window on the left, I am planning to cover that with big panel (or panels). the window is 6' x6'. My plan is to have horizontal panel pretty much covering the entire wall but have sound absorption filling in the middle 4' of the wall. I am planning to use rockwool 3" safe n sound insulation for this. The upper/bottom section would not have any insulation.

Do you think this would be sufficient? Any additional thoughts on the layout? My screen width is going to be around 148" wide.
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post #12333 of 12454 Old 03-04-2019, 04:15 AM
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Front Wall Fabric Options for Pink Fluffy? Bedsheets?

I have 10” of pink fluffy insulation on my front wall for broadband absorption. It is faced on the wall side and stapled to the drywall. It is behind an AT screen. I want to cover it so I don’t get itchy.

Using expensive AT fabric is a waste of money. Black burlap hung vertically from the ceiling in an option, but how to join the sides easily? What about a black bedsheet, which can be a pretty large piece of material and is cheaper than burlap and easier to hang? Bedsheets are tightly woven, but very thin. I assume 100% cotton is probably less reflective than poly/cotton, but does that make any difference?
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post #12334 of 12454 Old 03-04-2019, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bfb1963 View Post
I have 10” of pink fluffy insulation on my front wall for broadband absorption. It is faced on the wall side and stapled to the drywall. It is behind an AT screen. I want to cover it so I don’t get itchy.



Using expensive AT fabric is a waste of money. Black burlap hung vertically from the ceiling in an option, but how to join the sides easily? What about a black bedsheet, which can be a pretty large piece of material and is cheaper than burlap and easier to hang? Bedsheets are tightly woven, but very thin. I assume 100% cotton is probably less reflective than poly/cotton, but does that make any difference?


Use Milliskin spandex. It’s cheap, durable, and some of the most acoustically transparent material you can get.

I have the same setup as you and that’s exactly what I did.
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post #12335 of 12454 Old 03-04-2019, 07:29 AM
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What's the fire rating on milliskin spandex? It looks interesting, but if it's not IFR then it's unacceptable to me.

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post #12336 of 12454 Old 03-04-2019, 01:32 PM
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I was hoping someone here has these types of diffusion panels and can help me out. They are 1’x1’ if you could tell in the picture.


I am building them myself and I was wondering where they are to go in the besides the second row on the ceiling. Do they go beside each column you have speakers in, do they go on either side of the column or just one, if just one side could you explain why. Do you just put one beside the column or do you stack 2 so you would cover a 1’w x 2”h area.

Thanks for your help in advance


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post #12337 of 12454 Old 03-04-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrevo2u View Post
Quick newbie question about OC 703/705. Is the thickness pretty accurate (does 1" thick measure 1" or less like plywood, etc.?) Also, OC's website says 703 is semi-rigid and 705 is very rigid and more durable. For people who have used both; is the 705 more dent/abuse resistant?
Can't speak to the 705, but having just built some 703 panels's I'd say the thickness is pretty much as stated. I built my panel with exactly 2" wide pieces of pine, and the material was pretty much completely flush. Hope that helps.
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post #12338 of 12454 Old 03-04-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahuzz13 View Post
I was hoping someone here has these types of diffusion panels and can help me out. They are 1’x1’ if you could tell in the picture.


I am building them myself and I was wondering where they are to go in the besides the second row on the ceiling. Do they go beside each column you have speakers in, do they go on either side of the column or just one, if just one side could you explain why. Do you just put one beside the column or do you stack 2 so you would cover a 1’w x 2”h area.

Thanks for your help in advance


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Curious if you have a link to how you’re building these diffusers?

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post #12339 of 12454 Old 03-04-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
Curious if you have a link to how you’re building these diffusers?


I will it will be in my HT build thread, I will update with pictures and descriptions on how I’m doing it.

When I update my thread I will attach you to the thread to make it easy for you to find it


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post #12340 of 12454 Old 03-06-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Use Milliskin spandex. It’s cheap, durable, and some of the most acoustically transparent material you can get.

I have the same setup as you and that’s exactly what I did.
I am using that for my screen. However, its about $100 to cover my 8ft x 14ft wall.

What about furniture cambric dustcover bottom cloth? That stuff is really cheap. That is the stuff put under couches and chairs.
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post #12341 of 12454 Old 03-09-2019, 02:54 PM
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This diffuser built on standard lattice dimensions- because I had left over lattice

it sits of the top edges of a 3" roxul filled solid backed box.

I went with the textured paper because I wanted some "diversity' of porosity and dispersion vectors

(sounds smart- ow YMMV)

this 2' sq, was for the space atop part of the Submaximus V2 cab as it was directly, NF, behind me
attached using a french cleat and some felt bumpers to avoid any rattling

now covered in light AT black fabric wrt easier cleaning, etc.

most of glued down onto the lattice except at the edges where the frame is
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post #12342 of 12454 Old 03-10-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bfb1963 View Post
I have 10” of pink fluffy insulation on my front wall for broadband absorption. It is faced on the wall side and stapled to the drywall. It is behind an AT screen. I want to cover it so I don’t get itchy.

Using expensive AT fabric is a waste of money. Black burlap hung vertically from the ceiling in an option, but how to join the sides easily? What about a black bedsheet, which can be a pretty large piece of material and is cheaper than burlap and easier to hang? Bedsheets are tightly woven, but very thin. I assume 100% cotton is probably less reflective than poly/cotton, but does that make any difference?
ScottieBoysName's spandex recommendation sounds like a good idea for containing fiberglass dust, but could you share your reasoning for adding thick absorption behind the screen. I recently pulled my screen out about 14" to place my center channel behind it, and was wondering what I should do with the rest of the empty space. Was the goal to completely deaden your front wall? I've heard this is ok for multi-channel music and movies, but wasn't sure if it's recommended for 2-channel music.

Thanks,
Darrell

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post #12343 of 12454 Old 03-11-2019, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
ScottieBoysName's spandex recommendation sounds like a good idea for containing fiberglass dust, but could you share your reasoning for adding thick absorption behind the screen. I recently pulled my screen out about 14" to place my center channel behind it, and was wondering what I should do with the rest of the empty space. Was the goal to completely deaden your front wall? I've heard this is ok for multi-channel music and movies, but wasn't sure if it's recommended for 2-channel music.

Thanks,
Darrell
You are asking the wrong person. I am just parroting those that have gone before me.

Thick pink fluffy is broad band and best bang for the buck. Others get more innovative, and a lot will use fiberglass board with plastic sheeting since it is narrower profile. I plan to have 6 cyclops 18" subs, so a lot of my wall will actually be obstructed, but not as much as a baffle wall design. I may even add insulation between the speakers/subs.
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post #12344 of 12454 Old 03-12-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
ScottieBoysName's spandex recommendation sounds like a good idea for containing fiberglass dust, but could you share your reasoning for adding thick absorption behind the screen.[...]



Thanks,

Darrell

The front wall absorption is done to reduce SBIR. https://www.gikacoustics.com/speaker...response-sbir/
A lot of people use the duct liner material (I forget the name), but if you have the space, pink fluffy or some other type of broadband absorber between the wall and speakers should offer similar benefits. The difference being that you then have to cover the pink fluffy with something, whereas the duct liner could be left exposed.
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post #12345 of 12454 Old 03-12-2019, 04:46 PM
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The front wall absorption is done to reduce SBIR. https://www.gikacoustics.com/speaker...response-sbir/
A lot of people use the duct liner material (I forget the name), but if you have the space, pink fluffy or some other type of broadband absorber between the wall and speakers should offer similar benefits. The difference being that you then have to cover the pink fluffy with something, whereas the duct liner could be left exposed.
Thanks for the response. I already have a layer of 2" OC703 covering the full area just behind the screen. I guess what I'm asking is it ok to fill the 1 foot space between the 703 panels and front wall with pink fluffy and/or Ultratouch cotton? Is it possible to over-deaden the front wall?

Thanks,
Darrell

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post #12346 of 12454 Old 03-12-2019, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
ScottieBoysName's spandex recommendation sounds like a good idea for containing fiberglass dust, but could you share your reasoning for adding thick absorption behind the screen. I recently pulled my screen out about 14" to place my center channel behind it, and was wondering what I should do with the rest of the empty space. Was the goal to completely deaden your front wall? I've heard this is ok for multi-channel music and movies, but wasn't sure if it's recommended for 2-channel music.



Thanks,

Darrell


Spandex worked awesome for me. I had a cavity to fill up. Otherwise I wouldn’t have done it. You can see the progression in the pics. Last one is with my velvet panels in place.









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post #12347 of 12454 Old 03-12-2019, 10:28 PM
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Spandex worked awesome for me. I had a cavity to fill up. Otherwise I wouldn’t have done it. You can see the progression in the pics. Last one is with my velvet panels in place.
Great looking room!!! Did the room sound better after you filled the cavity?

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post #12348 of 12454 Old 03-13-2019, 04:38 AM
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Acoustical Treatments Master Thread

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Great looking room!!! Did the room sound better after you filled the cavity?


Thank you!!

Yeah. I need to re-run Audyssey for sure, but it got rid of some echo.
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post #12349 of 12454 Old 03-13-2019, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Thanks for the response. I already have a layer of 2" OC703 covering the full area just behind the screen. I guess what I'm asking is it ok to fill the 1 foot space between the 703 panels and front wall with pink fluffy and/or Ultratouch cotton? Is it possible to over-deaden the front wall?

Thanks,
Darrell
If you overdead the wall make sure you are not just overdeading the mid/high freq but get it as thick and absorb low freq as much as possible as well. From home theater standpoint, I've heard its best to have dead front wall but opposite for 2 channel music playback.

Currently I have just broadband panels behind the LCR only and not whole front wall treated....may try to stuff few cavities from fireplace and tv nook (which is behind screen) for additional bass trapping either using pink fluffy or roxul.

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post #12350 of 12454 Old 03-13-2019, 10:54 AM
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If you overdead the wall make sure you are not just overdeading the mid/high freq but get it as thick and absorb low freq as much as possible as well. From home theater standpoint, I've heard its best to have dead front wall but opposite for 2 channel music playback.

Currently I have just broadband panels behind the LCR only and not whole front wall treated....may try to stuff few cavities from fireplace and tv nook (which is behind screen) for additional bass trapping either using pink fluffy or roxul.
Thanks for confirming about room treatments for 2-ch vs multi-channel playback. This is what I had gathered from the discussion in the first few pages of this thread by Dennis Erskine and others - I just wasn't sure if this was still the general consensus.

My plan is to expand 2-ch sources to 5.1 (LCR+front-wides) with audio processing to create the reverberate field. Unless someone says it's a bad idea for my setup, I'm going to go ahead and add as much broadband absorption as I can to the front wall behind the screen (12" deep) and much thicker (20+") in the front corners floor to ceiling. For materials in addition to the 2" OC703 directly behind the screen, I plan to add a layer of 5" Ultratouch batting against the entire front wall (mainly because I've already purchased it), and then fill the remaining spaces behind the screen and in the corners with pink fluffy. And of course I'll include the spandex where needed to contain the pink fluffy stuff.

Thanks,
Darrell

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post #12351 of 12454 Old 03-17-2019, 05:00 AM
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Is having solid wood floors a bad idea or can it be dealt with?
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Is having solid wood floors a bad idea or can it be dealt with?
Generally, it's a problem to be overcome. Parallel surfaces that are both hard and reflective (common ceilings and wooden floors) are a recipe for flutter echo.
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post #12353 of 12454 Old 03-18-2019, 02:25 AM
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I have solid wood on concrete floors and I’d like to reduce the reflections. We have a big rug between the front speakers and our listening position but I’d like to put some underlay under the rug to absorb a little more. My partner wants to keep this rug but it’s a little thin, just a regular wool carpet thickness.

My first thoughts are a wool underlay I suspect the foam ones will be a little strange to walk on under a rug.

Does anyone have any data or experience as to what sorts of underlay works for this purpose? Or even if it makes any difference at all?
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post #12354 of 12454 Old 03-18-2019, 05:32 AM
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Do any of these products have any use for helping with sound reflections?

I have a 4x9 sheet of this



And then a roll 4’x60’ of this product





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post #12355 of 12454 Old 03-19-2019, 09:27 AM
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My room is 16' w, 18.5' d, and 8.5 to 12' high depending on how you measure because it's false tray ceiling covering a vaulted ceiling under a hip roof.

I've come to the conclusion that I want diffusion for the first reflection points. I'm going to have it attached to bare walls and then covered with AT fabric done as drapes because reasons, and I've got about 2 inches to play with. I know, 2 inches of depth isn't much in the world of acoustic treatments, but just go with it.

So, my question is what is my best bet here? I'm going diy. Option 1 is a poly curve diffuser because they look effective and easy to build. Option 2 is one of these new-fangled abfusor thingamajigs where you put randomly spaced random width slats over an absorbtion panel. I'm not quite sold on the concept, but I'm willing to be convinced.

I'm also open to other options, like I could build QRD or skyline, but given the depth I'm unsure that's the best idea. Maybe skyline with random angle cut faces?

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post #12356 of 12454 Old 03-22-2019, 12:17 PM
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@thegeek

not sure how much homework you've done,
Ethan Winer has a good video about them
and

but this looked interesting

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass...i-y-polys.html

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post #12357 of 12454 Old 03-22-2019, 02:12 PM
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My guess is that the shallow skylines are a no go. My thinking at this point is that at lower frequencies something that shape looks like a flat surface, angles or not.

I had seen that link before on the poly construction, but it's a good one. There's a lot of good ideas in there and it's a good one to follow. I'll go hunt down the vid from Ethan. Thanks!

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post #12358 of 12454 Old 03-23-2019, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post
My room is 16' w, 18.5' d, and 8.5 to 12' high depending on how you measure because it's false tray ceiling covering a vaulted ceiling under a hip roof.

I've come to the conclusion that I want diffusion for the first reflection points. I'm going to have it attached to bare walls and then covered with AT fabric done as drapes because reasons, and I've got about 2 inches to play with. I know, 2 inches of depth isn't much in the world of acoustic treatments, but just go with it.

So, my question is what is my best bet here? I'm going diy. Option 1 is a poly curve diffuser because they look effective and easy to build. Option 2 is one of these new-fangled abfusor thingamajigs where you put randomly spaced random width slats over an absorbtion panel. I'm not quite sold on the concept, but I'm willing to be convinced.

I'm also open to other options, like I could build QRD or skyline, but given the depth I'm unsure that's the best idea. Maybe skyline with random angle cut faces?

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The AT fabric when pleated will no be AT any more. The 2" depth will only diffuse relatively high frequencies which the fabric will end up absorbing a lot of. If you want to use diffusion for reflections I would highly recommend QRD style but more like 6" thick to get down into the 300ish range.

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post #12359 of 12454 Old 03-23-2019, 10:20 AM
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Standard drapery back and forth pleats, yeah I can see that being a problem since incidental waves are trying to punch though several layers. AT isn't so T raking through from the side of that.

Take a look at these pleats though: http://soundfold.com/product/fabric/

It's essentially flat for most of the run with just some ribs sticking up.

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post #12360 of 12454 Old 03-24-2019, 12:29 PM
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while not exactly an acoustical issue

the black out being achieved . . . looks great
anybody have any info / data / experience
wrt
the black out qualities of
royalty velvet #3 compared to "regular" 16 oz. duventyne fabric?

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