Acoustical Treatments Master Thread - Page 414 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12391 of 12442 Old 05-13-2019, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The air gap in the corner behind the panel will help, but three inches of that material will absorb down to a couple hundred Hertz while four inches will get you closer to a hundred hertz. Which means that the bass being absorbed will be from your speakers, above the crossover point, not bass from your subs (the lowest frequencies would require absorption several feet thick).

Also, you'll have to cover significant surface area to have any effect. There is 1,054 square feet of surface area in your room. Your two 7' x 15" panels have 17.5 square feet of surface area. Will covering 1.7% of the surface area of your room have noticeable effect on bass? If you add in your other "bass traps", will it amount to even 5% of the surface area of your room?
Thanks for the reply. I actually have a total 19 panels disbursed across the room. This is about 102 square feet or closer to 10%. The panels range from 1" to 6" as I just added a 6'x2'x6" panel with left of OC rock wool. Most are in the 1-2" thickness and have helped significantly with high and midrange sound.

I also have a large closest to the left of the room to which I have several bags of cellulose insulation in large canvas bags. Cheap experiment that I felt was very beneficial as that closet seemed to have bass that just resonated inside and affected the room. In my opinion, the biggest bang for my buck return on things I have done to perfect and imperfect space.

Think I have done all that I can do short of literally stripping down walls and starting a turn home theater room build. That will not be happening anytime soon!
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post #12392 of 12442 Old 05-14-2019, 05:23 PM
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Final Trial

Beginning to see , or not, the light

big panel, #3 , the other the aforementioned amazon velvet

#3 cleans more easily, has enuf bulk, so no staple point show thru, no 'artifacts" from the double sided tape, less stretch , no edge show thru while tightening for final assembly

(more obvious in the 3rd pic), consistently blacker looking in 2 differently shaded outdoor lighting conditions

nowjust need to check how to use the self tapping panhead screws going thru the velvet and not create a problem- pre-drilling and a slight puncture to start thru

I also scored a 50% off coupon from Joann's , so " only' $10 / yd .
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post #12393 of 12442 Old 05-14-2019, 08:43 PM
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some last thoughts /tips before entering production mode

the mounting holes for each panel laid out and drilled before covering
some panels will take 4, others 6, others 8
keep track of where the holes are-DUH!

I use an icepick to re-find those holes , after covering
poking thru the good side.
that spot i make with a silver sharpie dot that disappears under the panhead,

which have been spray painted- black , of course

i reverse the icepick to the good side try to enlarge the fabric hole

my tests of bare-ass trying to put a 5/32 hole straight thru the fabric- https://www.avsforum.com/forum/image...s/rolleyes.gif
you can do it- but you won't like it.
a few times the fabric twisted up so tight it loosened the keyless chick , pulled out the bit

it's important to be sure that the backside fabric at the hole gets a few extra stabilizing staples. the tape alone > won't

from the pic, in the back left corner- 2 slightly different angles blacker than the flat black paint
that's just f'n swell . . but a problem for the next run of the rabbit hole
I'll finish all panels first , 15 to go, and report back.
I'll be working from the center of the room ,from around the ceiling fan , out to the edges.
gives me wiggle room for adjustments
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post #12394 of 12442 Old 05-18-2019, 05:16 AM
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Room help...

Long time lurker, first time poster in this section.

I had recently finished my first attempt at a small theater (13x10 spare bedroom) and now that my honeymoon of a 120” screen is fading, I want to tackle some treatments.

I will attach the layout of the room at the bottom, as well as the current placement of screen.


Quick description of the setup:

Room is 9’11x13’ with a small closet (~3’x3’) in the back right of the room which houses the AV equipment; I have removed the door in order to have IR access as well as mitigate some vibrations. On the right wall, at approximate midpoint there is a 6’x6’ window. The door to the room is on left wall at the back of the room (grrrrr). The screen is a 120” 16:9 spandex hung on a frame in-front of the exterior wall (currently not dry-walled/open insulation, wrapped in velvet). Behind the screen are 3x DIYSG HTM10’s; there’s roughly 6” of air gap between the false wall and the back wall insulation. Subs are 2x sealed DA 18-22 Ultimax in 4cuf boxes at the ¼ and ¾ on the front wall. Ls/Rs, Rear L/R are RSL CG3’s hung roughly 1’6” above ear-level, canted towards the MLP.The front and right walls are exterior walls with insulation. Back and left walls are interior with no insulation. Ceiling goes to the attic and is insulated.

Basically, this room is an acoustical nightmare, sound and bass feel muddy; bass is missing that punch...especially for having 2 18” subs in a room that size.

Now to the meat and potatoes of this mess. Here are some things I was thinking about tackling based on everything I’ve read on the forums over last couple of months.
1. Add some absorption panels directly behind the MLP/couch on the back wall, maybe something like 4” or 6” frames of OC 703 (suggestions?). This may get messy as part of the wall behind the right side of the MLP is an open closet...but I’ll get to that later on.

2. BASS TRAPS! Ugh this is going to be tough. If you look at my masterpiece of a drawing below (being facetious, please don't stone me), the only place where I could do a proper wall to ceiling trap (2x4 sheets of material cut into 4 triangles) is the back right corner. The back left, due to the door placement I have about 4” of room to work with on the left wall….so unless I make movable traps, I don't think it’s going to happen. Now the front...while not as terrible as the back left, it’s not great. I only have about 8” of space between the edge of the AT screen and adjacent wall, a far cry from what a “standard” 24” that would be taken up by the triangle trap.
Possible workarounds:
a.Make the traditional triangle corner trap, but carve the inside corner to accommodate the screen or cut the corner in an odd shaped triangle to fit...Both ways seems kind of wasteful but I will leave that for you guys to decide.
b.Fill the cavity behind the screen and the corners with absorption material, making a wall-sized trap...I can take out the pink R-13 OC insulation on the exterior wall and replace it with something more absorbent if needed/possible which would give me total of ~10” of material depth.

3. First reflections. Of all my problems, I think this would be the easiest to deal with. For LCR - 2’x4’x2”/4” OC 703 framed with an inch air-gap. Part of my solution for the window was to build a 6’x6’ frame filled with 4” OC 730 hung on cleats over the window to double as blackout material as well as an absorption panel. For ceiling, similar solution of 2’x4’x2”/4” OC703 frames on cloud-mounts.

4. Lastly...the dang closet. I haven’t measured, but that thing seems to collect bass like it is it’s job. Should I put the door back (replace with solid core) or is there another/better way to deal with it? Treat with panels? Fill it with material (could get expensive).

Ok, I think this is everything I can think of for now, hopefully this wall of text makes sense. Basically, I have no delusions that this is a great room for HT setup. Unfortunately, this is what I have to work with and I want to make the best of it in a way that makes the most cost/benefit sense.

What do you guys think? What would you suggest and how would you go about implementing it. What should I prioritize?

Attached is my finger-painted rough layout of the room.

~cheers
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Living Room-Sony 65" XBR900E, Denon X3300W, Nvidia SHIELD. 5.1.2-Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE L/R, CMT-340Center, HTM-200SE Surround, RSL C34E Atmos, Sealed UM18-22 Sub.
"Micro Theater"-Optoma UHD51A, DIY 120" Spandex AT Screen, Denon X4400H, Sony UBP-800X, Nvidia SHIELD. 7.2.4 - DIYSG HTM-10 LCR, RSL CG3 Surround, Micca M-8C Atmos , 2 4cuf Sealed 18-22 Ultimax.

Last edited by Shape of Grey; 05-19-2019 at 05:20 PM.
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post #12395 of 12442 Old 05-18-2019, 06:46 PM
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Would it be better to do 2'x2'x6" traps in the top of the corners where it meets the ceiling or to use bigger 2'x4'x6" traps in the middle of the corners. I would say the top measures about 7 db louder than the middle at the corners. I can't fit the four foot traps in at the top due to speaker placement and a door. Thanks!
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post #12396 of 12442 Old 05-18-2019, 10:06 PM
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One main thing you can do is move your seating position (couch) about 2 to 2.5 feet forward. It is currently too close to the back wall. And where are those giant subwoofers currently located?
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post #12397 of 12442 Old 05-19-2019, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
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One main thing you can do is move your seating position (couch) about 2 to 2.5 feet forward. It is currently too close to the back wall. And where are those giant subwoofers currently located?
If this is referring to me, moving the MLP forward 2-2.5ft isn't an option as I'm already ~8' from the screen and it would also put the surrounds out of whack. I'll add the speaker placement to the main pic.

Living Room-Sony 65" XBR900E, Denon X3300W, Nvidia SHIELD. 5.1.2-Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE L/R, CMT-340Center, HTM-200SE Surround, RSL C34E Atmos, Sealed UM18-22 Sub.
"Micro Theater"-Optoma UHD51A, DIY 120" Spandex AT Screen, Denon X4400H, Sony UBP-800X, Nvidia SHIELD. 7.2.4 - DIYSG HTM-10 LCR, RSL CG3 Surround, Micca M-8C Atmos , 2 4cuf Sealed 18-22 Ultimax.

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post #12398 of 12442 Old 05-19-2019, 04:25 AM
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Page 33 of the Dolby Atmos Implementation Guidelines says that the side surrounds can be on the sides of the listener from 90 to 110 degrees back from the front of the room. Since you have to have those speakers at that exact position then if you want to hit those numbers then you actually need to move the couch forward anyway.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

Do consider the screen width though. If it's too much for that close then consider going 2.39:1 instead, you can go wider with a wider aspect ratio since they tend to keep the focus on the middle portion when they shoot that wide.

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post #12399 of 12442 Old 05-19-2019, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by thegeek View Post
Page 33 of the Dolby Atmos Implementation Guidelines says that the side surrounds can be on the sides of the listener from 90 to 110 degrees back from the front of the room. Since you have to have those speakers at that exact position then if you want to hit those numbers then you actually need to move the couch forward anyway.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf

Do consider the screen width though. If it's too much for that close then consider going 2.39:1 instead, you can go wider with a wider aspect ratio since they tend to keep the focus on the middle portion when they shoot that wide.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
So I went back and moved the couch forward, it's now 24" off the back wall. In this position, the Ls and Rs are at almost dead on 90deg to the MLP. As for scope, was considering it, just because it would give me more room to do tri-traps in the front corners but my currently projector doesn't have lens memory so I'd have to fiddle with zoom any time aspect ratio changed.

Living Room-Sony 65" XBR900E, Denon X3300W, Nvidia SHIELD. 5.1.2-Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE L/R, CMT-340Center, HTM-200SE Surround, RSL C34E Atmos, Sealed UM18-22 Sub.
"Micro Theater"-Optoma UHD51A, DIY 120" Spandex AT Screen, Denon X4400H, Sony UBP-800X, Nvidia SHIELD. 7.2.4 - DIYSG HTM-10 LCR, RSL CG3 Surround, Micca M-8C Atmos , 2 4cuf Sealed 18-22 Ultimax.
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post #12400 of 12442 Old 05-19-2019, 05:03 AM
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16:9 is what TV and video games are. All movies are wider than that, and action movies are almost all 2.39:1. It used to be panamorphic lens or bust for constant height screen setups but these days projectors have excellent contrast, more than enough lumens, and motorized lenses with memory isn't an overly rare feature.

If you're building the room for mostly movies, and especially if you'll be using a TV in another room for casual viewing then go scope, make it special.

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post #12401 of 12442 Old 05-19-2019, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post
16:9 is what TV and video games are. All movies are wider than that, and action movies are almost all 2.39:1. It used to be panamorphic lens or bust for constant height screen setups but these days projectors have excellent contrast, more than enough lumens, and motorized lenses with memory isn't an overly rare feature.

If you're building the room for mostly movies, and especially if you'll be using a TV in another room for casual viewing then go scope, make it special.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
The room has been done for few months now. And after watching movies for a few months, I sometimes wish I had gone scope. However, that is getting a bit off topic lol. Right now I wanted to see what treatments can/should be done to the room to improve audio in such a small space.

Living Room-Sony 65" XBR900E, Denon X3300W, Nvidia SHIELD. 5.1.2-Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE L/R, CMT-340Center, HTM-200SE Surround, RSL C34E Atmos, Sealed UM18-22 Sub.
"Micro Theater"-Optoma UHD51A, DIY 120" Spandex AT Screen, Denon X4400H, Sony UBP-800X, Nvidia SHIELD. 7.2.4 - DIYSG HTM-10 LCR, RSL CG3 Surround, Micca M-8C Atmos , 2 4cuf Sealed 18-22 Ultimax.
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post #12402 of 12442 Old 05-19-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape of Grey View Post
So I went back and moved the couch forward, it's now 24" off the back wall. In this position, the Ls and Rs are at almost dead on 90deg to the MLP. As for scope, was considering it, just because it would give me more room to do tri-traps in the front corners but my currently projector doesn't have lens memory so I'd have to fiddle with zoom any time aspect ratio changed.
Looking at your drawing, the listeners ears are still behind the side speakers. The listeners ears can be in front of side speakers. I know that psychologically, you may think you want those side speakers further up front but 90 degrees to 110 degrees BEHIND you is proper, and I think it sounds better that way. I also think the surround tweeters should be at ear level or 1 to 2 feet higher. Most importantly, the listener position within the room should be at about 2/3 to 3/4 from the front of the room and away from the back wall to get the best sound. I realize this puts you closer to the screen.

Also, I would put one subwoofer dead center in front, and the other behind your couch, slightly to one side (and the door way makes it so that you have to that anyway), and pointed at the back of the couch.
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post #12403 of 12442 Old 05-19-2019, 05:20 PM
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What are my better/best options for bass trapping? About the only place I can put a wall to ceiling tri-trap would be back right corner. In the front, I could do a 24" tall only due to the screen being 8 off the walls. There is a 6" air gap between the false wall front and the front wall insulation.....could I stuff that air gap with Roxul and turn the front wall into one big bass trap?

The closet in the back I would guess isn't doing me much favors....should I put the door back on and close it off? or leave the door off (open closet) and put some absorption panels in there/line the walls with pink stuff/Roxul 60, leaving only enough room for the AV equipment?

Lastly as far as reflections go, from what I've read, on SEOS drivers (HTM10s) you don't want to treat first reflections. Is that accurate? How about the rear wall? 4" Roxul panels with 2" air gap (maybe 3 panels along the back wall)?

Living Room-Sony 65" XBR900E, Denon X3300W, Nvidia SHIELD. 5.1.2-Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE L/R, CMT-340Center, HTM-200SE Surround, RSL C34E Atmos, Sealed UM18-22 Sub.
"Micro Theater"-Optoma UHD51A, DIY 120" Spandex AT Screen, Denon X4400H, Sony UBP-800X, Nvidia SHIELD. 7.2.4 - DIYSG HTM-10 LCR, RSL CG3 Surround, Micca M-8C Atmos , 2 4cuf Sealed 18-22 Ultimax.
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post #12404 of 12442 Old 05-20-2019, 09:58 AM
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The physics of first reflection don't particularly change based upon where speaker the sound is coming out of.

Curious... did you jumper the HTM-10's crossover to enable the HF padding? Your room description didn't mention anything about a baffle wall. The HTMs are designed to be installed in a baffle wall and they're crossover is not baffle corrected. The HF pad jumper is there because without a 1/4 wave wide baffle on the front face (3.5 feet in each direction) then the frequencies coming out of the CD will all be heading towards the listener while half of the lower frequencies will be radiating everywhere. Say something, then place your hands against the sides of your mouth extending straight out to the sides. It changes the frequency response. That's what the HTMs are designed for and without it they'll sound wrong.

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post #12405 of 12442 Old 05-20-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape of Grey View Post
There is a 6" air gap between the false wall front and the front wall insulation.....could I stuff that air gap with Roxul and turn the front wall into one big bass trap?
Worth a try with either Roxul or pink fluffy. Probably won't attenuate low bass, since that requires a few feet of absorption, but will at least minimize mid-bass above the subwoofer range.
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The closet in the back I would guess isn't doing me much favors....should I put the door back on and close it off?
That will allow you to put an absorption panel on the door and next to it for symmetrical placement.
Quote:
Lastly as far as reflections go, from what I've read, on SEOS drivers (HTM10s) you don't want to treat first reflections. Is that accurate?
Side wall reflections are outside the soundstage and aid in spaciousness, so absorbing them comes down to preference. The only place I would absorb on the side walls is the contra-lateral reflections (the left speaker's first reflection on the right side wall and vice versa). This way, sounds from one side of the soundstage aren't heard (however subtly) from the opposite side of the room.
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post #12406 of 12442 Old 05-20-2019, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post
The physics of first reflection don't particularly change based upon where speaker the sound is coming out of.

Curious... did you jumper the HTM-10's crossover to enable the HF padding? Your room description didn't mention anything about a baffle wall. The HTMs are designed to be installed in a baffle wall and they're crossover is not baffle corrected. The HF pad jumper is there because without a 1/4 wave wide baffle on the front face (3.5 feet in each direction) then the frequencies coming out of the CD will all be heading towards the listener while half of the lower frequencies will be radiating everywhere. Say something, then place your hands against the sides of your mouth extending straight out to the sides. It changes the frequency response. That's what the HTMs are designed for and without it they'll sound wrong.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
I installed a single-post switch on each speaker to enable/disable HF padding. I did find an old thread where HF padding came up and mtg90 stated:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The padding just reduces the level of the high frequencies a bit resulting in a more downward tilted HF response and makes the treble more laid back. Could be helpful if you have a highly reflective room or just prefer speakers with a more relaxed sound.
Based on his statement, I left the HF padding in off position as it was behind the AT screen. I may fiddle with it, see how it sounds with it on.

Living Room-Sony 65" XBR900E, Denon X3300W, Nvidia SHIELD. 5.1.2-Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE L/R, CMT-340Center, HTM-200SE Surround, RSL C34E Atmos, Sealed UM18-22 Sub.
"Micro Theater"-Optoma UHD51A, DIY 120" Spandex AT Screen, Denon X4400H, Sony UBP-800X, Nvidia SHIELD. 7.2.4 - DIYSG HTM-10 LCR, RSL CG3 Surround, Micca M-8C Atmos , 2 4cuf Sealed 18-22 Ultimax.

Last edited by Shape of Grey; 05-20-2019 at 01:01 PM.
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post #12407 of 12442 Old 05-25-2019, 09:32 AM
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Room Layout/Treatment Help Needed

Good Morning,

This is the only forum I visit that uses "Master Threads". I am certain I have not found the most timely way of searching or navigating them so I generally end up reading pretty much all of it. There are a lot of helpful thoughts/tips/theories explained well here. It has been very useful for me.

I am in the process of upgrading my living room HT. I would like to add some treatment and begin planning for projection down the road (3D capable with fixed screen).
Some of the things I would like to accomplish along the way is replace my wall rack with something lower to get the tv lower for now and allow for larger/lower projection screen in future.
If I went with one of the options in the attached pics (SS2 or SS3)I could also treat the wall behind the unit (on which center channel will sit).
My couch and chairs look nice but are horribly uncomfortable and I also want to replace them with theater/reclining seating. I was thinking just 4/5 individual seats maybe or loveseat/individual combo.
Generally I watch movies alone, but would like to accommodate 4 or 5 viewers occasionally.

Room is 15.5x20.5x8ft or 186x246x96in
Wood flooring over basement.
equipment list is in sig.
FR speakers are 1/6 and 5/6 across front wall and subs are 1/4,3/4. Which I understand to be ideal given room dimensions. MLP on couch is 12ft from front wall (not ideal, I can go back a little further if I have to, but chose this for distance from the screen and the possibility of putting 3601 nearfield right behind)

My treatment thoughts were to start with broadband panels and corner traps in the front wall and a broadband panel on the back wall.
I have fabric samples coming from GIK and Acoustimac, I have attached spec sheets for what I think may be the most effective products to help me.
I understand for broadband (bass in particular) more/thicker is always better. I am not sure if I can handle the aesthetics of a 7.5 inch panel just yet though. Although the 3601 seemed like a behemoth when it first arrived and after hearing/feeling it...I hardly notice it any more. Incidentally, it is for sale, but I figure I might as well use it until I find a buyer.

My drawings on the pics may be hard to understand so let me try to explain...
From the corners in I was thinking TriTrap and then panel 24x48 horizontal or vertical (because of mains location) then 24x48 horizontal (behind subs, if that makes any sense) and then something to fill in the center behind the rack (and center channel).
This may sound funny given my ideas, but I am not looking for every last single % of improvement...I do want to maintain a certain look. Fortunately for me I think panels used well look "technically cool" and "pro".

Some questions I have regarding the front soundstage are:

How much is gained by putting treatment in the ACTUAL corners of floor/wall as opposed to suspending them just above the 4.5in trim?
Does it do anything to have broadband (bass trap panels) in between the wall and subs?
Do panels allow you to move speakers (front soundstage) closer to the wall? Subs and R L are front port, center is rear.

Are the attached spec sheets apples/apples comparison? The weight and area weight seem to have been calculated differently.
In the specs for the thickest panels I find weight as:23.5lbs for GIK MBT(7.25 thick) and 28lbs for the DMD BT (6.25 thick)
Has anybody tried both? or able to distinguish which would be best by the specs?

Some additional info.
obviously the front wall provides me with the most leeway treatment wise (amount and thickness). Including wall/ceiling corner.
I just don't know the best solution for equipment placement. I think front/center and down low is most practical given the wiring in place and lay out. All I really plan on having is AVR, Universal disk player and Apple TV.
The furniture along the back wall can be removed or replaced as soon as I can find adequate attractive alternatives. Basically I would just like some sort of cabinet or chest of drawers to store media (primarily 3D blu ray and my fav 2D movies) as well as 3D glasses and black out shades folded up and ARC laptop and mic... I am really having a hard time finding anything though.
Would it be a mistake (overpowering/cancelling front subs) to try to move the 3611 nearfield? I could just lay it on its side and place a cabinet or chest on top. It would practically disappear then lol.

When running ARC how can you tell what can effectively be eq'ed out or corrected vs having to move things (speakers/subs/MLP)?



Regards,
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Last edited by Dutch-boy; 05-25-2019 at 09:44 AM.
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post #12408 of 12442 Old 05-26-2019, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch-boy View Post
When running ARC how can you tell what can effectively be eq'ed out or corrected vs having to move things (speakers/subs/MLP)?
The general rule for EQ is that it can reduce peaks but it can't boost dips (nulls).

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post #12409 of 12442 Old 05-26-2019, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
The general rule for EQ is that it can reduce peaks but it can't boost dips (nulls).
Thank you Mashie, I will remember that.

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post #12410 of 12442 Old 05-26-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dutch-boy View Post
Good Morning,

This is the only forum I visit that uses "Master Threads". I am certain I have not found the most timely way of searching or navigating them so I generally end up reading pretty much all of it. There are a lot of helpful thoughts/tips/theories explained well here. It has been very useful for me.

I am in the process of upgrading my living room HT. I would like to add some treatment and begin planning for projection down the road (3D capable with fixed screen).
Some of the things I would like to accomplish along the way is replace my wall rack with something lower to get the tv lower for now and allow for larger/lower projection screen in future.
If I went with one of the options in the attached pics (SS2 or SS3)I could also treat the wall behind the unit (on which center channel will sit).
My couch and chairs look nice but are horribly uncomfortable and I also want to replace them with theater/reclining seating. I was thinking just 4/5 individual seats maybe or loveseat/individual combo.
Generally I watch movies alone, but would like to accommodate 4 or 5 viewers occasionally.

Room is 15.5x20.5x8ft or 186x246x96in
Wood flooring over basement.
equipment list is in sig.
FR speakers are 1/6 and 5/6 across front wall and subs are 1/4,3/4. Which I understand to be ideal given room dimensions. MLP on couch is 12ft from front wall (not ideal, I can go back a little further if I have to, but chose this for distance from the screen and the possibility of putting 3601 nearfield right behind)

My treatment thoughts were to start with broadband panels and corner traps in the front wall and a broadband panel on the back wall.
I have fabric samples coming from GIK and Acoustimac, I have attached spec sheets for what I think may be the most effective products to help me.
I understand for broadband (bass in particular) more/thicker is always better. I am not sure if I can handle the aesthetics of a 7.5 inch panel just yet though. Although the 3601 seemed like a behemoth when it first arrived and after hearing/feeling it...I hardly notice it any more. Incidentally, it is for sale, but I figure I might as well use it until I find a buyer.

My drawings on the pics may be hard to understand so let me try to explain...
From the corners in I was thinking TriTrap and then panel 24x48 horizontal or vertical (because of mains location) then 24x48 horizontal (behind subs, if that makes any sense) and then something to fill in the center behind the rack (and center channel).
This may sound funny given my ideas, but I am not looking for every last single % of improvement...I do want to maintain a certain look. Fortunately for me I think panels used well look "technically cool" and "pro".

Some questions I have regarding the front soundstage are:

How much is gained by putting treatment in the ACTUAL corners of floor/wall as opposed to suspending them just above the 4.5in trim?
Does it do anything to have broadband (bass trap panels) in between the wall and subs?
Do panels allow you to move speakers (front soundstage) closer to the wall? Subs and R L are front port, center is rear.

Are the attached spec sheets apples/apples comparison? The weight and area weight seem to have been calculated differently.
In the specs for the thickest panels I find weight as:23.5lbs for GIK MBT(7.25 thick) and 28lbs for the DMD BT (6.25 thick)
Has anybody tried both? or able to distinguish which would be best by the specs?

Some additional info.
obviously the front wall provides me with the most leeway treatment wise (amount and thickness). Including wall/ceiling corner.
I just don't know the best solution for equipment placement. I think front/center and down low is most practical given the wiring in place and lay out. All I really plan on having is AVR, Universal disk player and Apple TV.
The furniture along the back wall can be removed or replaced as soon as I can find adequate attractive alternatives. Basically I would just like some sort of cabinet or chest of drawers to store media (primarily 3D blu ray and my fav 2D movies) as well as 3D glasses and black out shades folded up and ARC laptop and mic... I am really having a hard time finding anything though.
Would it be a mistake (overpowering/cancelling front subs) to try to move the 3611 nearfield? I could just lay it on its side and place a cabinet or chest on top. It would practically disappear then lol.

When running ARC how can you tell what can effectively be eq'ed out or corrected vs having to move things (speakers/subs/MLP)?



Regards,
You seem to have done some research and are on the right track. As far as treatments you want to start with bass traps since bass is always a problem in every room. I would just start with front corners only with either the GIK tri trap or the soffit trap. Soffit traps reach lower frequencies but tri traps saves space and are nicer looking in living room....depends on how much absorption you want. If you do Tri traps you can do full broadband, or get them with diffusion plates on top depending on how reflective your room currently is. So I'd just start with corner bass traps for now and maybe 3rd corner on rear wall if you can move cd rack a little bit.

About the floor moulding trim, don't worry...just slide the trap up against the trim. It will still work as good or slightly better since you will have about 1 inch more air gap behind and beside it anyway.

Once you do that you can start working on first reflection points of the room such as side walls and ceilings. Your rear wall are so far behind you that you could do diffusion there or absorption/diffusion combo. Personally I'd do monster trap or Alpha 6A. Thicker is always better since it will absorb lower bass as well which is always welcomed.

So most bank for buck would be front corner bass traps and absorption/diffusion at first reflection points. Then if you want to spend more down the road and get extra improvement seasoned to taste you can work on rear wall and front wall.

Do you have REW or take measurements? Those would help show how well arc is doing before and after, but you could go by ear as well. REW will really help you find best position for your subs and seating and show you what the mic (your ears) will pick up. Highly recommended!

As far as your seating....you say you can't move it....just follow the rule to never have seating in exact middle of room length (as well as 1/4th, 3/4th) and be between 35-40% of front or rear wall to be out of most room nulls.

I know I answered quick...if I left anything out let me know.

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post #12411 of 12442 Old 05-26-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
You seem to have done some research and are on the right track. As far as treatments you want to start with bass traps since bass is always a problem in every room. I would just start with front corners only with either the GIK tri trap or the soffit trap. Soffit traps reach lower frequencies but tri traps saves space and are nicer looking in living room....depends on how much absorption you want. If you do Tri traps you can do full broadband, or get them with diffusion plates on top depending on how reflective your room currently is. So I'd just start with corner bass traps for now and maybe 3rd corner on rear wall if you can move cd rack a little bit.

About the floor moulding trim, don't worry...just slide the trap up against the trim. It will still work as good or slightly better since you will have about 1 inch more air gap behind and beside it anyway.

Once you do that you can start working on first reflection points of the room such as side walls and ceilings. Your rear wall are so far behind you that you could do diffusion there or absorption/diffusion combo. Personally I'd do monster trap or Alpha 6A. Thicker is always better since it will absorb lower bass as well which is always welcomed.

So most bank for buck would be front corner bass traps and absorption/diffusion at first reflection points. Then if you want to spend more down the road and get extra improvement seasoned to taste you can work on rear wall and front wall.

Do you have REW or take measurements? Those would help show how well arc is doing before and after, but you could go by ear as well. REW will really help you find best position for your subs and seating and show you what the mic (your ears) will pick up. Highly recommended!

As far as your seating....you say you can't move it....just follow the rule to never have seating in exact middle of room length (as well as 1/4th, 3/4th) and be between 35-40% of front or rear wall to be out of most room nulls.

I know I answered quick...if I left anything out let me know.
Thanks a bunch ereed,

I Don't have REW but do have ARC (anthem) which has a feature called "quick measure". I'll have to spend some time with it and see if I can get the info needed, if not I suppose I invest in REW.

For the rear wall, what would I use to decide the better option between monster trap or alpha 6a?

The clap test indicates I have echo, so I was figuring that meant I should absorb, but I understand now diffusion can also solve that.

Enjoy your holiday

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post #12412 of 12442 Old 05-26-2019, 02:00 PM
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Thanks a bunch ereed,

I Don't have REW but do have ARC (anthem) which has a feature called "quick measure". I'll have to spend some time with it and see if I can get the info needed, if not I suppose I invest in REW.

For the rear wall, what would I use to decide the better option between monster trap or alpha 6a?

The clap test indicates I have echo, so I was figuring that meant I should absorb, but I understand now diffusion can also solve that.

Enjoy your holiday
Please don't confuse ARC with REW since they are 2 different things and do not do the same thing. ARC is just a eq software that actually eqs your peaks/dips. REW is just a measuring software that doesn't make any changes to your system....just shows you the freq response, timing, delay, etc and a bunch of other stuff. Its a software that helps you get most out of your system.

As for the rear wall, both the monster trap and Alpha 6A bass traps are pretty much equal. Alpha 6A is pretty much similar to Monster with scatter plates but Alpha is a better overall panel/diffuser between the two. But if you don't like seeing the plates on top then get the Monster with scatter plates built in. You could do Monster or even 244s on rear wall with Range limiter option (absorbs 400hz and below only and reflects above 400hz) but if you do scatter plate it will diffuse rather than reflect back to the room to make room feel larger.

Far as echo you can fix that by putting down throw rugs as well as panels such as 242s (or 244s which are better to also absorb low end) on the ceiling and side wall reflection points.

I'm also in living room and use GIK soffit traps in 2 corners, 244s with range limiters on rear wall, and a combination of 244 full range and alpha 4a on side walls. In my room the biggest difference was treating the corners and first reflection points. Later on I added more on side wall and ceilings when budget allowed. This is why I say start with corner traps first if you have tight budget since that is where bass "pools/builds up" the most.

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post #12413 of 12442 Old 05-29-2019, 01:50 PM
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I have a bad slap echo in my relatively untreated room (the screen wall is heavily treated, but the side walls aren't). There is not a full back wall, but the opening is covered by a heavy curtain, which I close when watching films. My room has side walls that are 5'8" tall, then a sloped wall up to a flat ceiling 9' high. I'm considering my options, and was thinking of adding columns along the side for decoration and to conceal my side surrounds. Between the columns, I'm thinking of these two options for acoustic treatment:


(1) doing 4x4 and 2x4 panels of OC703 covered in decorative fabric. I'm not a fan of solid colors, so I'm thinking of finding a nice damask or some print which is relatively acoustically transparent.


(2) doing full curtains between columns on the side walls. The draperies that cover the opening to the theater are made of this fabric:
https://www.rosebrand.com/downloads/...ll%20Panel.pdf


What would happen if I made curtains of this fabric, or alternatively, made flat panels of it, and put OC703 behind it?


Thanks for your sage advice!
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post #12414 of 12442 Old 05-30-2019, 02:28 PM
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When you guys look at specs from GIK and Acoustimac panels and corner treatments tested at the same facility and similar manner...Which one seems superior?
It looks to me like the DMD 6" is better over more frequencies.
Does anybody interpret these differently?
Seems as though Acoustimac uses the same panel for corners only bevels the edges.
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post #12415 of 12442 Old 06-01-2019, 09:23 AM
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What sort of treatment(s) should I do behind my minimalist screen wall? I'm on a budget but want to do what I can. I think I will need bass traps in the corners - they don't have to look great as you won't be able to see them from the room, does anyone know where to get some on a budget? I see the foam ones on Amazon, but I didn't think lightweight foam would do much for bass.


Any other acoustic treatments I should do behind the screen wall?

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post #12416 of 12442 Old 06-02-2019, 07:34 AM
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After doing some more google research (for some reason google finds stuff on AVS that I can't find with the in house search), I am looking to use BIG's method of two layers of 1" Linacoustic with a 3m layer of plastic in between. Now I just have to check with local HVAC shops and Supply Houses to see if I can find it reasonably.



Can I add more layers in the corner to make bass traps with Linacoustic, or do I need something like OC 703?


Also, I was planning on making four 48"x 24" fabric covered acoustic panels (probably using 703) to go on each wall. If I get a 100' roll of 48" Linacoustic, I will have some left over, could I use it for this use instead of 703? It would save me some money and that's a good thing.

7.1.4 Theater Room (In Progress): JVC-RS46U, Silver Ticket AT 2.35:1 142”, Onkyo RZ830, Anthem PVA-7, Panasonic DBT-110, JBL Studio 270’s, NXG-NX BAS 500 (for now)

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post #12417 of 12442 Old 06-02-2019, 12:05 PM
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It sure if this is the right thread to ask this question.

I have made some panels that are 2’x4’. And in the last couple weeks I’ve moved my seating much closer to the screen. So I was just thinking of just making a cluster of 4 or 6 on each side wall for the first reflection points. Me question is would it be a waste putting them all in same spots. I have a bug you sports jersey that I have to keep in the room so trying to figure out the best layout.

I have 110” to my first side speaker. If I did 6 in total plus a jersey that would make my over all length 98”. That leaves 10-12” from screen wall to first panel. Does that effect anything. Or I could start right in the corner and then leave 10-12” where the speaker is.

Also option split the difference on each end.

Adding pic to try and show what I have. The Mike Tyson is the panel




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post #12418 of 12442 Old 06-02-2019, 03:27 PM
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So it kind of look like this. Now when I’m watching I can maybe see half of the first 2 panels in my peripheral. It doesn’t bother me at all.



This is the pic looking straights a head. It didn’t even show up on my phone camera




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post #12419 of 12442 Old 06-03-2019, 08:51 AM
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I experienced something very interesting yesterday with a change in my HT. I would like to share with you all and then get some ideas of what to do next.
Room: 12Wx23Lx8H completed sealed dedicated.
treatment: 4" 703 at first reflection of Center on each side wall and also on Ceiling. Front wall, I have 2" 703 behind L/C/R. Don't have any bass traps in corners. Used to have it in corners but in REW didn't really see it much doing.
MLP: 65" away from back wall.


I also had 1 panel (2" 703) on back wall behind on each side behind side seats and also on side wall b/w back wall and MLP. Seems simple room treatment. But since I also wanted to maximize the contrast for my projector, I installed Black Velvet all around the area b/w MLP and the screen. Even the acoustic panels that are covering 1st reflection for center channel are covered with black velvet.

The change I made yesterday was to replace the back wall acoustic panel with 3d diffuser. Then recalibrated and when I was watching movies, it was muchhhhh better experience. Surround/Surround back sound made me very much feel like I was right in the scene. It very much felt like a sound bubble I was in. So loved the change but at the same time, the front stage didn't produce the same effect. Front stage sounded more distant than back stage. I also read in one of the HT Of The Month thread that Niel suggested the owner not to use too much of Black Velet since it will absorb the High Frequencies anywhere they are installed. This made me thin that the difference I'm hearing b/w surround vs front stage is because of how front stage b/w MLP and screen is all covered with black velvet is absorbing high frequencies. I really like the open surround sound I'm hearing now but not so much how front stage is sounding.

Do I have to remove this black velvet to get the open sound stage from front as well? I assume I'd also have to install some diffusers b/w MLP and screen?
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post #12420 of 12442 Old 06-03-2019, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The only place I would absorb on the side walls is the contra-lateral reflections (the left speaker's first reflection on the right side wall and vice versa). This way, sounds from one side of the soundstage aren't heard (however subtly) from the opposite side of the room.
Very interesting approach. What about Center? We leave center reflection completely open on side wall and only cover contra-lateral reflections for side speakers? Also what would you recommend for ceiling treatment? Please see my post just above explaining what I have in my room. After I got very good sound stage from surround, I'm afraid I'd have to get rid of most of the black Velvet to open up sound stage from front speakers.
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