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post #12481 of 12723 Old 09-21-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
So, presumably you used the mirror technique to mark where your reflection points are? Ideally, you’ll end up having 3 1st reflection points per seating position (L/C/R),which in your case would total to 9 reflection points on each L and R walls.

Not sure if there is a formula, but in my case, I attempted to cover each reflection point to be at least as wide (and tall) as my actual speaker baffles (not the cabinet), but that didn’t always work out. So, it turned out in my case that 1 panel covered 2 reflection points with a couple of inche to spare to the sides...

Dimensions of my panels are 24.25” x 48.25”

I have done further research and there is no formula - just "wider" seems to be the consensus









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post #12482 of 12723 Old 09-22-2019, 02:07 AM
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They need to be wide enough such that if you move about, sit in a slightly different spot you are still covering the reflection spots.

Also sound waves are large, not small like the light bouncing off the mirror so wider the panels are the more effective they will be. I built some small panels recently and they didn’t seem to do much, it wasn’t until I built bigger and more panels that I started to hear a difference.

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post #12483 of 12723 Old 09-22-2019, 04:32 PM
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Acoustical Treatments Master Thread

I made some panels in the past with safe n sound insulation. I had some sports picture printed on what the printing shop called acoustical material. However I don’t think it’s the greatest. If blow on it I really don’t feel any air. I have pick up some burlap for ceiling panels I did. I have some left over and was thinking of making new side panels to go in between the ones I currently have.

This should be my first reflection point? so I will have 2’ original panel. Then a new 4’ burlap followed be another 2’

My question is. Does material really matter. If I could do all sport theme I think i would rather that. Or should is it still best to just do the burlap?

Also my back wall is about 12’ behind me. Do I need to add any panels their??





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post #12484 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 09:19 AM
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My question is. Does material really matter. If I could do all sport theme I think i would rather that. Or should is it still best to just do the burlap?
The absorption material itself + the fabric covering the panel DO MAKE a significant difference, so choose wisely.

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Also my back wall is about 12’ behind me. Do I need to add any panels their??
We need more information, primarily your room dimensions and layout. Absorption panels for back wall is always recommended and beneficial, especially if you’re closer to the back wall than the front wall (where your speakers are situated). Generally speaking, the smaller the listening room is, the more advisable it is to acoustically treat your room as, in such scenarios, room modes, flutter echo, reverberations, reflections, dips and peaks and serious bass issues are more ubiquitous.

Regardless, for the biggest ROI and acoustical improvements, as starting point, I would advise to:

1. to place your MLP (main listening position) at ~ 38% of the length of room from the front wall (if not feasible, back wall might work too).
2. use the mirror technique to identify the 1st (aka early) reflection points from the MLP & place absorption panels on both R and L walls plus the ceiling. If you DON’T have carpeted floor, always place a rug or similar (the thicker the better).
3. install bass traps in the corners
4. NEVER sit right in the middle of the room – worst possible scenario due to dips/peaks from room modes
5. NEVER place the MLP right against the back wall

FYI, the best acoustically sounding rooms tend to employ BOTH absorption + diffusion panels.

Hope this helps.
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post #12485 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 09:28 AM
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This should be my first reflection point? so I will have 2’ original panel. Then a new 4’ burlap followed be another 2’
Probably you already know this, but just in case my previous post isn't clear enough...always place your absorption panels at 1st reflection points which are found by the mirror technique. Not sure about your room dimensions, but the panel with the Maple Leaf hockey player seems waay too close to the screen, so I wouldn't think it would do anything.

Good reading material: https://www.gikacoustics.com/early-reflection-points/
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post #12486 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 09:31 AM
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These are where 1st reflections are on my ceiling for L, C & R. I've seen many room pics of just 2 panels used on the ceiling 1st reflections and covering the L & R only. Do I need to put a panel in the middle for the center?
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post #12487 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 09:44 AM
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These are where 1st reflections are on my ceiling for L, C & R. I've seen many room pics of just 2 panels used on the ceiling 1st reflections and covering the L & R only. Do I need to put a panel in the middle for the center?
I wouldn't go by that as each HT/2ch listening room is unique. In some pictures that I've seen, 1 panel actually covered two 1st reflection points (L and C)...so it really depends on how wide/long your panels are vs. distance between the 1st RP.

In your particular case, looks like your setup is geared towards HT (could be wrong...) so yes, I WOULD ensure that the 1st reflection point for the center channel is covered; that will provide the best legibility for dialog since it makes up ~80% of most movies.
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post #12488 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Probably you already know this, but just in case my previous post isn't clear enough...always place your absorption panels at 1st reflection points which are found by the mirror technique. Not sure about your room dimensions, but the panel with the Maple Leaf hockey player seems waay too close to the screen, so I wouldn't think it would do anything.



Good reading material: https://www.gikacoustics.com/early-reflection-points/


Thanks for the reply’s.

I had the hockey player panel originally at the 1st reflection point. I moved it forward and the Jordan picture further back. Leaving my 1st reflection point open. This is where I will build the new panel. Sounds like its best to use the burlap material then. Also I moved the first panel up because I didn’t want to throw it away since I like them and I made 4 of them.

From your previous reply

-I have 2 corner base traps on the back wall corners
- I have 5 ceiling panels
- my rooms 22’ long and I’m siting around the 9-6” form the front wall.

As for diffusers I would like to make some but I haven’t found a good site in how to do it.

Her are some pics form when I was building the ceiling panels and corner bass trap.






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post #12489 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers10 View Post
These are where 1st reflections are on my ceiling for L, C & R. I've seen many room pics of just 2 panels used on the ceiling 1st reflections and covering the L & R only. Do I need to put a panel in the middle for the center?
Looking at your setup again, I have a somewhat similar setup where my room isn't symmetric. Your L side seems to lead to an open area, so probably you're good there, but are you able to treat the R wall where the windows are? I would venture to say that leaving that wall untreated would be worse than installing absorption panels on the ceiling. Distance wise, since your speakers look to be floor monitors, the ceiling is farther away from the speakers than the R wall and floor are...so I would treat the surfaces that are closer first.
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post #12490 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 10:35 AM
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FYI, 38% room length is the location of one of the nulls of the 4th order length mode. Modal nulls are always at even divisions (half, quarters, sixths) of room length, so it is better to place the listeners' ears at one of the odd divisions (thirds, fifths) of room length. For example, 1/3rd room length is close to 38% but avoids the null. For 2 rows, 3/5th and 4/5th room length are good starting points.
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post #12491 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers10 View Post
These are where 1st reflections are on my ceiling for L, C & R. I've seen many room pics of just 2 panels used on the ceiling 1st reflections and covering the L & R only. Do I need to put a panel in the middle for the center?
Looking at your setup again, I have a somewhat similar setup where my room isn't symmetric. Your L side seems to lead to an open area, so probably you're good there, but are you able to treat the R wall where the windows are? I would venture to say that leaving that wall untreated would be worse than installing absorption panels on the ceiling. Distance wise, since your speakers look to be floor monitors, the ceiling is farther away from the speakers than the R wall and floor are...so I would treat the surfaces that are closer first.
Thanks for responses. Yes the left side is wide open to the kitchen. I have two 24"x48" panels that I'll be putting horizontally on the right wall right under the windows. I can't have them be higher and block any of the shutters/windows due to WAF.
I was also contemplating using a panel behind each tower and possibly the center. What's your thoughts on front wall treatment?
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post #12492 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 12:33 PM
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Thanks for responses. Yes the left side is wide open to the kitchen. I have two 24"x48" panels that I'll be putting horizontally on the right wall right under the windows. I can't have them be higher and block any of the shutters/windows due to WAF.
I was also contemplating using a panel behind each tower and possibly the center. What's your thoughts on front wall treatment?
I find, all things considered, one of the most cost effective ways to acoustically treat windows present in HT setups is to install heavy curtains/window drapes over them. Following the 'form follows function' adagio, this is obviously not the preferred route, especially in a family room, but it's so much better than having glass or sheet-rock reflecting sound waves. If the 1st reflection points land somewhere in between the windows, you can have some art panels done and still have the WAF.

Absorption panels behind front wall speakers address SBIR, aka Speaker Boundary Interference Response. That's a bit different than treating 1st reflection points.

I recommend reading this article on taming SBIR issues: http://www.gikacoustics.com/speaker-...response-sbir/

With that said, my priority list as follows:

1. L and R walls: installed 2 x (24.25"x 48.25") on each wall absorption panels @ a thickness of 5.25"
2. back wall: 2 x (24.25″ x 48.5″) with a thickness of 7.5"
3. All 4 corners (floor to wall): 4 x (24" x 48") triangle shaped

I never got around to installing 1 x (24.25"x 48.25") on the ceiling, but I will to primarily treat the C channel; maybe I get lucky and get all 3 L/C/R covered with 1 just panel (my ceiling is pointy given slope of roof). However, with just the above, both my 2-ch critical music listening and my HT movies have DRAMATICALLY improved. I'm talking like NIGHT vs. DAY here, I got myself asking..."what the heck, why did I wait this this long?"
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post #12493 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncabw View Post
- I have 2 corner base traps on the back wall corners
- I have 5 ceiling panels
- my rooms 22’ long and I’m siting around the 9-6” form the front wall.
Some feedback:

a. Would it be feasible to install corner base traps along the front wall as well? Read this http://arqen.com/bass-traps-101/placement-guide/
b. 5 ceiling panels...why so many? How many ceiling 1st reflection points are you treating with 5 panels?
c. Can you move the MLP slightly forward (towards the screen), say by 1 foot or so? I would target to sit around 8.3' to 8.5' from front wall given your room's length
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post #12494 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 01:33 PM
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Acoustical Treatments Master Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Some feedback:



a. Would it be feasible to install corner base traps along the front wall as well? Read this http://arqen.com/bass-traps-101/placement-guide/

b. 5 ceiling panels...why so many? How many ceiling 1st reflection points are you treating with 5 panels?

c. Can you move the MLP slightly forward (towards the screen), say by 1 foot or so? I would target to sit around 8.3' to 8.5' from front wall given your room's length


A) I have about 14” from screen to side wall. My plan was to make a corner trap around 11-12 x 24” a rectangle shape

B)I added that many because my room has nothing in it for absorbing sound so I figured more is better. I will post a pic because behind my seating positions my walls are covered in Jerseys. So I thought the ceiling would be a good option.

C) my screen is 160” and I tried to sit at the 9’ mark and it was a bit to close. 9’ 6” is the closet I can sit where I feel the best.

Here are some Audyssey graphs if this means anything.


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post #12495 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 06:09 PM
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Have you measured the room with a microphone and REW (lots) before doing all this work or you've just gone ahead on advice from here? I ask as tbh majority of people are happy before diving in the rabbit hole but if you're going to do it then you might as well do it properly and measure accurately. Not taking anything away from Audyssey but it's like any auto system and prone to drift...

With those pictures you printed I'd be putting a couple of inches of your prefered insulation behind them and chuck them up on the walls as they are yours and you obviously love them...there's no point in being drab for the sake of half a dB!
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post #12496 of 12723 Old 09-23-2019, 08:20 PM
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Have you measured the room with a microphone and REW (lots) before doing all this work or you've just gone ahead on advice from here? I ask as tbh majority of people are happy before diving in the rabbit hole but if you're going to do it then you might as well do it properly and measure accurately. Not taking anything away from Audyssey but it's like any auto system and prone to drift...

With those pictures you printed I'd be putting a couple of inches of your prefered insulation behind them and chuck them up on the walls as they are yours and you obviously love them...there's no point in being drab for the sake of half a dB!


I bought a mic and downloaded rew software and a PDF book on how to use it. I just haven’t had the time to learn how to use it.

Right now those pictures are framed with 1X6 and have 1 layer of safe n sound in them. So about 3inches thick With 2-1/2 air gap behind. Are you saying add more insulation and make them act like a corner bass trap??? Then maybe stack two pictures right on top of each other to give me my full 9’ to ceiling?


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post #12497 of 12723 Old 09-25-2019, 10:20 AM
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Im buying GIK panels with tri traps for room threatment.

Closest surface of reflections to listening position is the rearwall. Would it be better to fill rearwall with those half circle shaped polyfusor panels or new impression panels? Or mayby mix both or just go full absorption?

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post #12498 of 12723 Old 09-25-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
Im buying GIK panels with tri traps for room threatment.

Closest surface of reflections to listening position is the rearwall. Would it be better to fill rearwall with those half circle shaped polyfusor panels or new impression panels? Or mayby mix both or just go full absorption?
Are you saying that you don't have L and R walls anywhere nearby your front stage? If so, you're in an envious position my friend...

Anywho, I recently bought GIK acoustic panels myself - and I absolutely swear by them!! My recommendation, upon numerous emails and phone calls with the friendly technical folks @ GIK is:

- side walls + ceiling: GIK 244 panels
- rear wall: GIK monster traps
- the bottom trihedral corners (floor-wall-wall): GIK tri-traps

That's what I've done and I am now a true believer that acoustical panels work magic! I could have saved myself the price of a new car by not upgrading my gear (amps, speakers, pre/pros) if I would have installed them much much sooner...

In the future, my upgrade path would be to place:

1. 242s behind L and R speakers to tame SBIR
2. diffusion panels immediately adjacent to L and R speakers and to MLP (to create 'spaciousness' and increase the imagery of my room)
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post #12499 of 12723 Old 09-25-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_cure View Post
Are you saying that you don't have L and R walls anywhere nearby your front stage? If so, you're in an envious position my friend...



Anywho, I recently bought GIK acoustic panels myself - and I absolutely swear by them!! My recommendation, upon numerous emails and phone calls with the friendly technical folks @ GIK is:



- side walls + ceiling: GIK 244 panels

- rear wall: GIK monster traps

- the bottom trihedral corners (floor-wall-wall): GIK tri-traps



That's what I've done and I am now a true believer that acoustical panels work magic! I could have saved myself the price of a new car by not upgrading my gear (amps, speakers, pre/pros) if I would have installed them much much sooner...



In the future, my upgrade path would be to place:



1. 242s behind L and R speakers to tame SBIR

2. diffusion panels immediately adjacent to L and R speakers and to MLP (to create 'spaciousness' and increase the imagery of my room)
I read on theyr web page that those polyfusers are adviced if rear wall is close. But the impression could add nice touch to interior, so mayby i mix them.
Could allso do 244's tought desision.

2 stacked tri traps is what can be done with closets and doors on other corners.


My L wall is like 20feet as the room opens to kitchen. R wall is 8 feet apart to balcony and windows..

Sofa is closer to backwall <3feet. And distance to speakers from sofa is around 10feet.

That why i thought to focus behind the most. Allso planned is 242's on the R wall reflection point between door and windows behind curtains, but that is a spot where i cant do choosing as its the only panel fitting behind curtains.
Front wall is soft gyproc wall with openings to other rooms. Might toss couple 242's there allso.

The room is no where optimal, but have to work with what can be done.


Does my thinking make any sense? Acoustics is not my strongest suit.

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post #12500 of 12723 Old 09-25-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
Closest surface of reflections to listening position is the rearwall. Would it be better to fill rearwall with those half circle shaped polyfusor panels or new impression panels? Or mayby mix both or just go full absorption?
I would go with broadband (4"-6" thick) absorption directly behind the listeners. Dialogue and other sounds from the front soundstage should not be heard (however subtly) coming from behind you.
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My L wall is like 20feet as the room opens to kitchen. R wall is 8 feet apart to balcony and windows..
That's going to result in an asymmetrical soundstage. I would cover the right wall with thick pleated drapes to mimic the lack of wall on the left side and restore symmetry.
Quote:
That why i thought to focus behind the most.
Front wall is more important, since you want to minimize reflections from surround speakers that will muddy the critical front soundstage. Good places for broadband absorption would be between your front speakers, which will also tame boundary cancellation dips caused by your L/R speakers and front wall reflections.
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post #12501 of 12723 Old 09-25-2019, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncabw View Post
Right now those pictures are framed with 1X6 and have 1 layer of safe n sound in them. So about 3inches thick With 2-1/2 air gap behind. Are you saying add more insulation and make them act like a corner bass trap??? Then maybe stack two pictures right on top of each other to give me my full 9’ to ceiling?


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No I would leave them how they are, perfectly fine.
I'm not knocking the technique here as I did this myself in my cave but for a lot of people I would just say make some nice diy panels, stick them at critical reflection points and be happy to show them off to your friends or and be done with it...especially with some of the quality home theatre rooms and listening rooms that I've seen on here!

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post #12502 of 12723 Old 09-25-2019, 08:11 PM
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Hi Guys,

Hoping someone can help. I'm wanting to add some acoustic treatment to my room, but it's a fairly small room and I want to maintain the aesthetics of the room. How would I go about adding some panels in this room while keeping it symmetrical and looking good?









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post #12503 of 12723 Old 09-25-2019, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
Im buying GIK panels with tri traps for room threatment.

Closest surface of reflections to listening position is the rearwall. Would it be better to fill rearwall with those half circle shaped polyfusor panels or new impression panels? Or mayby mix both or just go full absorption?
You can email them and get a room consult for very cheap to free. Talking to them was a lot of help for my room.
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post #12504 of 12723 Old 09-27-2019, 01:12 AM
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You can email them and get a room consult for very cheap to free. Talking to them was a lot of help for my room.
I'll contact them and see suggestions, but it has to be mix of design/aesthetics and acoustics as the place is not dedicated to HT only.

Thanks for tips.

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post #12505 of 12723 Old 09-28-2019, 02:59 AM
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Any decent room acoustics simulation software that is easy to use and provides a good basic idea of how sound behaves in a room across the full range based on sound sources in the room. something geared towards aiding treatment ?

Odeon seems to be comprehensive, has anyone here used it ?
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post #12506 of 12723 Old 09-28-2019, 07:57 AM
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Getting ready to build acoustic panels for the HT. Wondering if it is acceptable to use linacoustic in the panels or the pink fluffy stuff? I have some of both left over from my build. Thanks!

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post #12507 of 12723 Old 09-30-2019, 08:09 PM
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Sure you can use pink fluffy stuff, but it won't give you a lot of traction except in the high frequencies. Consider using 3 or 6 lb/cu^3 ductboard. That'll work a bit better on the frequencies you are likely trying to target.

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post #12508 of 12723 Old 10-04-2019, 07:32 PM
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I was looking at this place and plan to use the home theater panels where it splits up an underwater coral reef picture into 3 panels on each side of the front of the room.

https://www.acoustimac.com/hometheater

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Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
Hi Guys,

Hoping someone can help. I'm wanting to add some acoustic treatment to my room, but it's a fairly small room and I want to maintain the aesthetics of the room. How would I go about adding some panels in this room while keeping it symmetrical and looking good?









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post #12509 of 12723 Old 10-21-2019, 06:43 AM
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Do you guys run room correction again after treatment? I just did and it cleaned things up quite a bit.
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post #12510 of 12723 Old 10-22-2019, 01:46 AM
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Do you guys run room correction again after treatment? I just did and it cleaned things up quite a bit.


Most definitely.

Hopefully after the treatments it has a lot less to correct. If you are still running with the correction from before you added the room treatment then it’s probably making things worse.

I’m part way through my room treatments but already I see a big difference in the auto correction my avr does. The difference is such that I expect I won’t use the auto correction again, some small manual adjustments (referring to rew sweeps) sound much better than the “magic” auto correction, ypao for reference so not the best system, dirac might still be worthwhile I don’t know.

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