Retrofit Carada Frame with AT Screen Material? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 09-01-2016, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Retrofit Carada Frame with AT Screen Material?

Greetings everyone, as I've expanded my knowledge and understanding about home theater acoustics and have lived with my in-progress version for a couple of years now, I've come to realize I really want an acoustically transparent screen so I can at least put my center channel speaker behind it. However, we already have a non-AT screen, and the frame is great and looks nice.

I've reached out to the screen manufacturer, Carada, inquiring if they might be working on some AT-screens and in need of a beta tester, but unfortunately they are not developing any AT products. He suggested I might be able to retrofit my frame (a Criterion series) by removing the snaps and driving screws right through the AT material, but I'm not keen on that idea -- seems like it would be really hard to get it right.

I've seen "stretcher bars" mentioned for home built screens, but haven't seen any pics. Can anyone recommend stretcher bars that might fit on the screen frame I have (pics attached, from the manufacturer's web site)? Or, anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks in advance!


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post #2 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, reading more, now I realize "stretcher bars" refers to the screen frame itself, as with canvas paintings or prints.

So now my question becomes "Does anyone have any recommendations on how to do a retrofit like this? The Carada screen attaches with snaps. David at Carada said the snaps can be removed from the frame easily enough with a screwdriver. I just don't know how to attach and stretch the new AT material to ensure it is taut with no wrinkles.


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post #3 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 09:02 AM
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You can put snaps in AT material, the challenge will be to get them in the right location. Alternatively you could modify the frame to posts instead of snaps, Then you use rubber O-rings through grommets in the fabric to mount and maintain tension. Looking at the diagram you would want the posts further away from the visible edge so you have some wiggle room. Screwing in new posts (basically screws) in the aluminum will not be a problem, getting the grommets in the right location will be and you should probably practice on some scrap fabric first to determine exact positioning.
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post #4 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 09:09 AM
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here is a Grommet and O-ring Falcon screen assembly.



And I was the "hand model" for the Falcon assembly manual:


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post #5 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Big, that really, really helps. I'll take my screen down this weekend to look at it up close to see what I might be able to do.


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post #6 of 30 Old 10-18-2016, 04:53 PM
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texpliot, did you make any progress?

I did some evaluation of the Falcon material with another local AVSer (see Best AT material for 120" 4k) recently and am just about decided on using it to retrofit into my Carada frame (128" 2.37:1).

Jeff, it looks like the screws in that frame don't align perfectly with the grommets and from what I read on Falcon's website it would seem that for DIY use the grommet spacing can be specified (maybe to a certain degree). I need to check on that, but otherwise it doesn't seem to need to be 100% accurate if done by hand. Does that sound about right?
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post #7 of 30 Old 10-18-2016, 05:02 PM
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the posts were angled to the outside edges to add a little more tension toward the edges. but in the case of the Falcon all the posts were movable/adjustable.
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post #8 of 30 Old 10-18-2016, 08:11 PM
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Just a thought but can the Carada frame be grooved like have a slit routed the length of the frame so that the bolts could slide like in the groove on the Falcon frame?

I want a zero edge screen and have been looking into ways of using my Stewart AT screen on a separate frame with zero luck. But going the opposite direction should be easier than what I'm trying to do.

If all else fails use wood as the tensioning then attach it to the back of the frame. It would be a tad bit thicker but hardly noticeable from viewing distances. It would also allow space behind for LED tape lighting effects if into that sort of thing.

Edit- After looking at the diagram and thinking back to my Carada frame, the routed slit/groove should be rather simple with the correct tools and then you could feed the bolts from behind one at a time sliding them further down as you add them. Would work perfect for grommet system I would think. There appears to be enough room depth wise in the hollow section for a variety of different sized bolts.

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post #9 of 30 Old 10-19-2016, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
the posts were angled to the outside edges to add a little more tension toward the edges. but in the case of the Falcon all the posts were movable/adjustable.
Thanks, from the hand model shot I can see the corner and so that makes sense now.

I have my Carada screen off the wall now, so I'll do some more examining tonight. Failing mounting it directly, I could just build a wood frame to mount the screen too and then hang the Carada frame on top purely as the border.
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post #10 of 30 Old 10-19-2016, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
texpliot, did you make any progress
Not yet I'm afraid, I have 4 screen samples and am waiting for 2 more to decide. Haven't even taken the screen off the wall yet to look at the back again. I'm stuck (re)designing the front wall to work with an AT screen ...
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post #11 of 30 Old 11-13-2016, 09:33 AM
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I've been in talks with both Rich at Falcon and Jon at Seymour about grommet positioning, and it seems like it may work by removing the snaps and screwing posts up as far away from the viewing area edge as possible.

From the edge of the viewing area, there is 2 1/4" till the piece of metal that has the beveled edge near the top of the frame starts (right above a pan head in the picture). The spacing between this edge and the pan head by the black viewing edge bump is 7/8" (the pan heads are just in the corners). That bump is about 1/4" high and so it may also be possible to screw in some 3/4" x 5/16" screen frame and just use spline to attach the material too. However, I don't know if that is going to be too thin to hold a larger screen. I don't think there is enough space for Screen Tight to be used. I'm going to check out the screen frame at HD/Lowes - it's only $4 for a 7' length.
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post #12 of 30 Old 11-13-2016, 01:48 PM
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what about attaching window screen channel and using that like with spandex but use whatever material you want instead?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...do-i-need.html

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post #13 of 30 Old 01-22-2017, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
I've been in talks with both Rich at Falcon and Jon at Seymour about grommet positioning, and it seems like it may work by removing the snaps and screwing posts up as far away from the viewing area edge as possible.

From the edge of the viewing area, there is 2 1/4" till the piece of metal that has the beveled edge near the top of the frame starts (right above a pan head in the picture). The spacing between this edge and the pan head by the black viewing edge bump is 7/8" (the pan heads are just in the corners). That bump is about 1/4" high and so it may also be possible to screw in some 3/4" x 5/16" screen frame and just use spline to attach the material too. However, I don't know if that is going to be too thin to hold a larger screen. I don't think there is enough space for Screen Tight to be used. I'm going to check out the screen frame at HD/Lowes - it's only $4 for a 7' length.
Hi D,
I don't find anything about your screen conversion on your build thread. Still deciding what to do?

I'm still working out final design details on our remodel and haven't taken my screen down yet, so nothing new on my end. Hoping you got it all figured out already ;-)
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-23-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texpilot View Post
Hi D,
I don't find anything about your screen conversion on your build thread. Still deciding what to do?

I'm still working out final design details on our remodel and haven't taken my screen down yet, so nothing new on my end. Hoping you got it all figured out already ;-)
It's coming soon! There has just been so much else do with my build, including procrastination I'm currently painting my soffits/light trays as carpet is coming soon. I don't think I'll get to the screen this week, but next week I should. I bought the Falcon Horizon material, with grommets already inserted, and a selection of different O-rings from Amazon so that hopefully I have the right size.
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post #15 of 30 Old 01-23-2017, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
It's coming soon! There has just been so much else do with my build, including procrastination I'm currently painting my soffits/light trays as carpet is coming soon. I don't think I'll get to the screen this week, but next week I should. I bought the Falcon Horizon material, with grommets already inserted, and a selection of different O-rings from Amazon so that hopefully I have the right size.
Wishing you all the luck that you make it to the screen ASAP! I'm keenly interested in all the design details, as I want to do exactly what you're doing with your screen ... What size frame do you have and what size did Falcon ultimately recommend?
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post #16 of 30 Old 01-31-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
here is a Grommet and O-ring Falcon screen assembly.



And I was the "hand model" for the Falcon assembly manual:


Is there a good place to buy these type of rubber bands? These will definitely come in handy for my screen swap!
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post #17 of 30 Old 01-31-2017, 05:03 PM
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either from the guy selling you the fabric or here is one store

https://www.fastenal.com/products/hy...O-Rings%22%7C~
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post #18 of 30 Old 01-31-2017, 06:10 PM
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either from the guy selling you the fabric or here is one store

https://www.fastenal.com/products/hy...O-Rings%22%7C~

Awesome! I didn't consider that these are just rubber o-rings. Much appreciated.
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post #19 of 30 Old 02-01-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texpilot View Post
Wishing you all the luck that you make it to the screen ASAP! I'm keenly interested in all the design details, as I want to do exactly what you're doing with your screen ... What size frame do you have and what size did Falcon ultimately recommend?
I'll finally be getting around to this within the next week (famous last words). I'm done painting, and have carpet, so can put the goal posts back up and hang the screen!

My frame is 128" 2.37:1, so about 118"x50" viewable area. Rich (Falcon) said he could get the grommets (which are 3/4" OD) within 1/16" of the edge of the material. I ended up ordering 121"x53" with grommets 1/8" from the edge. This should place the grommets over the lip on the back of the frame (black near the inside) and leave me 3/4" - 1" to then place self drilling sheet metal screws in the frame before the frame starts to angle back out toward the outside edge.

The proof will be in the pudding.
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post #20 of 30 Old 02-01-2017, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Retrofit Carada Frame with AT Screen Material?

Can't wait to see and read about the pudding.
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post #21 of 30 Old 02-17-2017, 10:01 AM
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Falcon Vision HD material on a Carada frame

I finally got around to this last night! I used self-drilling screws from Home Depot, and for the bands I bought several sizes from Amazon at around $7-$10 per each pack of 100. Those shown in the photo are what I ended up using, though they were a little large and so were wrapped twice around the grommets. Constructions was simple, just like stapling I started at mid-points and then after those 4 were done worked out 3 grommets at a time diagonally opposite each other.

I think I need to make 2 small adjustments, but otherwise it looks great. Those are:
  1. Remove (unscrew) the snaps where a grommet lies on top, as that is pulling the material off the frame and so giving a small shadow
  2. At the 4 corners, I did a diagonal band and think I need to do 2 bands (horizontal and vertical)

I just need to paint my goalposts (minimal screen wall approach) black (and then they can go back up) and add the insulation/plastic/insulation to the front wall and then I can hang it. Hopefully this holiday weekend.




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post #22 of 30 Old 02-17-2017, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome!!! You're my hero dude. Looks great, thanks for sharing how you did this.

You said you ordered the Falcon Horizon material -- not the HD correct? What is your seating distance and screen size again? Again, great job!


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post #23 of 30 Old 02-17-2017, 05:49 PM
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Looking good! Glad it's working out!
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post #24 of 30 Old 02-18-2017, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texpilot View Post
You said you ordered the Falcon Horizon material -- not the HD correct? What is your seating distance and screen size again? Again, great job!
Whoops, I've corrected the title of my post as I used Falcon's Vision HD! With the grommets, it shouldn't make a difference though.

Last night I undid a couple of the points to remove the Carada snaps where the grommets were sitting on top. That fixed the material from sitting slightly off of the velvet border, and so I'd suggest when laying out the material that you remove those snaps before hand. You can remove them all, but of the 9-10 I had to remove I had to drill out 5 with my GrabIts as they were torqued too high and so just stripping. I'll try contacting Carada's owner at his new company to see where I can get replacement snaps in case I ever need to put the old material back on.

My screen is 2.37:1, 118" x 50". First row is 11' back, second 16'. I'll need to compare for the gain, but it seemed close to the Carada BW (real world measured 1.1 by Accucal) when I was testing back in October with Pultzar. I hope to paint my goalposts today, and get my 1"/film/1" on the front wall this weekend and so projecting tomorrow night or Monday.
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post #25 of 30 Old 04-03-2017, 07:30 PM
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Sorry to derail this thread.


I cannot find my answer through research on the web.
Now that Carada, is close for business, very sad when I saw this since they were making such great screen.


Since I cannot ask them directly, maybe a member might know the answer to my question.


Does any one know the thickness of the top of a Criterion frame?
Reason been, I want to re-do my sliding system for my screen, to make-it easier to move left and right.
If you click on my signature, you will see why


The reason I am asking, is I am debating between taping the top and get a very few tread for the bolt, or making a much bigger hole to accept a butterfly gizmo for drywall


Ray


P.S. I thought this was going to be posted in the screen section
I sign-in after a Google search
I will re-post, but any little bit of info is welcome

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post #26 of 30 Old 04-03-2017, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Does any one know the thickness of the top of a Criterion frame?

Hi Ray,
My Criterion frame is about 1 5/8" thick. Hope that helps.
-Terry
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post #27 of 30 Old 04-03-2017, 08:01 PM
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Hi Ray,
My Criterion frame is about 1 5/8" thick. Hope that helps.
-Terry

Thanks for reply, Terry.


What, I am looking for is the actual thickness of the frame it-self, 1/8 maybe?


Ray
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post #28 of 30 Old 04-03-2017, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for reply.

What, I am looking for is the actual thickness of the frame it-self, 1/8 maybe?

Ray

Do you mean the thickness of the metal itself?
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post #29 of 30 Old 04-03-2017, 11:40 PM
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Do you mean the thickness of the metal itself?

Yes


It is going to be either tap, using a tap and dye kit, to make a few treads into the frame, or use something like a drywall anchor to hold the weight of the frame.

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post #30 of 30 Old 04-03-2017, 11:59 PM
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Just wrote another reply that got lost


The frame need to move left and right.
Having some big computer issues, it keep freezing on this site
What, I am debating, is should I try to make a few treads into the frame, or use an anchor system like my previous post.


Cutting this short, before I loose everything again.


Back to make an edit, the screen will be hanging from one of these;
https://www.rona.ca/en/sliding-door-rail-08856069


Ray

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