Ncabw's changed basement plan - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 37 Old 01-12-2017, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ncabw's changed basement plan

Hi All,
I have a thread in the genearl media room but loos like my room has now become more of a home theater build.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...-basement.html

I have some speaker placement questions/problems maybe.

I have done a lot of the soundproofing already which included DD & GG between the joist, decoupled ceiling and walls with clips and furring channel. I will up load some pics of everything I've done so far in next couple days.

Not really knowing anything about home AV i assumed my room was big but in reality its just not as big as i thought for everything i wanted to do.

I have some speaker placement questions/problems maybe.

so basically my room is 15' x 22'-6"+- i originally planned on sitting 12' away from the screen but now there is a return air right above that where i would of wanted the ceiling speaker to go. Is it fine to have a speaker in that cavity joist. If not i can move my seating back to 14'. as shown on the hand sketch. Does all my speaker placement look correct? My other concern is that i have a bulkhead on the right side that is 42" and from my original layout i was suppose to have a ceiling speaker that would be about 5" away from it. Is that fine? If not what are my options?


Hope this makes sense and sorry for any grammer. On my moms computer and pretty sure its messed up. I don't see what im typiung until anout 20 seconds later. LOL
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post #2 of 37 Old 01-12-2017, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Also If i do have to move back and loose the 2 feet should i go bigger screen right now its 16:9 screen because i watch 90% sports. I kind of wanted to do 2 rows of seating but i dont think i have the room So maybe do a bar top with stools right behind the first row.

equipment list
JVC DLA-X550RB
Audio 7.1.4 Dolby
Marantz SR6011 receiver
Onkyo M5010 power amp to do ful 11 channel system
Martin Logan Dynamo 100x Subwoofer
Da Lab 6.5" in wall
Da lab 6.5 In ceiling

When i get to my office i can upload some CAd drawings i have done
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post #3 of 37 Old 01-12-2017, 09:09 AM
 
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135" is a good size screen IMO. I sit 12' back with a 120" 2.35 screen and it's fine for me. It could be a little bigger, but I have no regrets with it.

People who have bars can answer this better, but personally I would not want to watch a movie sitting at a bar. I think it looks cool and would be a great place to hang out, but I don't want to sit on a bar stool for 2 hours watching a movie.

As far as speaker placement you have to work with what you have. Moving a speaker here or there a couple feet is not going to make a dramatic difference.
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post #4 of 37 Old 01-12-2017, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pics of the build so far.
We spray foamed the whole basement. I then built the walls away from the spray foam. I also add the clips and furring channel on all side walls. Not sure if i had to since walls were not touching foundation or spray foam. I added rubber under all bottom tracks and where ever the metal was back to back like where the bulkhead is.

I used metal because my dad is a GC and does 99% office work so material and labor was free.
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post #5 of 37 Old 01-12-2017, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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So I wired the 3 front speakers behind the screen
front wall side and front ceiling at 14' I now plan on sitting 14' away from the screen
rear wall side and rear ceiling speakers are 18'. There was some plm in the joist at 19'

I left all speaker wires long just in case i need to move them.

Ran sub wire to both front corners of the room.

ran 2 cat 6 wires behind the front screen.

I will now run some cat 6 to random spots for possible future use.

I will try and get to the office to draw it all up on CAD for a better look at what i've done.

This computer is killing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #6 of 37 Old 03-10-2017, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Son making some progress. All boarded up.

I'm not sure if I wired the speakers right. I'm now sitting 14' away from screen. I have my first row of ceiling speakers also at 14'. Then was suppose to have to go back 6'. I went only 4'. Is that a problem?

Also should I have starred the front ceiling speaker a bit ahead of where I'm sitting?

I couple maybe leave them where they are and move my viewing position back 1'??

Any thoughts would be great before I start mudding. Right now everything has been DD&GG


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post #7 of 37 Old 03-10-2017, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the layout showing 6'. But I did the rear ceiling speakers at 4' by accident.


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post #8 of 37 Old 04-12-2017, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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So all the mudding and taping is now down. We painted the the first coat of paint as well.

I used green painters tape to show a 150" 16:9 image and 150" 2.35 image. I watch about 80% sports but think it might be best to go with the 150" as it seems i will only be losing about 8-10" on the overall height

I also taped where all the front speakers will go.

Any thoughts on screen size? I will be sitting min 14' away.

I also picked up the projector and over the next couple days will temporary set it up to see how it looks. I will just shoot the image on some white construction paper.
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post #9 of 37 Old 04-12-2017, 01:25 PM
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You are moving along fast!

I don't' see your speakers wires poking through the drywall? you have them marked somehow?

Looks like you will have a nice space when it's all done!

Keep the the photos coming!

HT1.0 | HT2.0 (Finally Fully Operational )
JVC RS-2000 / Xbox One X / nVidia Shield / DIY treatments
Seymour AV Center Stage 130" 2.35 / Denon 7200WA / Denon 6300 / 2x miniDSP2x4HD
iNuke NU6000DSP / iNukeNU3000DSP / 2x Klipsch R-112SW / 2x UM18-22 / 12x JBL 12"
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post #10 of 37 Old 04-12-2017, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
You are moving along fast!

I don't' see your speakers wires poking through the drywall? you have them marked somehow?

Looks like you will have a nice space when it's all done!

Keep the the photos coming!


Yes I have all speaker locations marked. I'm still not 100% sure they are in right locations. I mentioned it in the thread and no one made a comment on it yet.


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post #11 of 37 Old 04-13-2017, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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So I tried out the projector today. I couldn't get the image to match up to what I had taped in the wall. I think it might of had to do with unused a PS3 and only had a video game to use as video. The only options I had were 16:9 and 4:3.

I've never used a Projector before. I would think that I could toggle between 16:9 and 2.35 easy. Couldn't figure it out though.

I want to lock down screen size within the next week or so. Looks like I have some reading to do on how to work the projector.











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post #12 of 37 Old 04-13-2017, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Also noticed when I turned the HDR the projector became louder. I think I read that before. The colour also seemed really off when i turned it on. Probably has something to do with a black wall the image was being projected on.

The projector is the JVC DLA-570RB


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post #13 of 37 Old 05-17-2017, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I set up my Xbox one and tried a movie. It did automatically go into a 2.35 view. I liked the 150" better then the 135" 16:9.

I was thinking should i not paint the wall white behind the screen? Or would the black paint not show through the screen?

I also have never put any thought into the acoustical sound panels. Should i just set everything up and then test for sound problems? I think i seen there is an app/program for this? My plan would to DIY for the panels.

Would i ever need them behind the screen? My plan was to just make some cleats to hold my screen on the wall. I have in wall speakers behind the screen.

I'm way behind on the whole house build so this room seems to be last on my wife's wish list!!!!!!!!!!

Any suggestions on my build would be great. Like i said before this room started off as a sports themed room and now seems to be looking more like a dedicated theater.

Thanks
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post #14 of 37 Old 05-19-2017, 11:26 AM
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Room is plenty big enough.. if it was any bigger you might have to upgrade the speakers lol!

For ceiling speakers, mine were a little different. Mine had to measure the height of the floor to the ceiling and and then the speakers would then be placed that measure distance away from my seating area.
My atmos speakers are the Definitive Technology UIW RCS II.

Are yours direct firing?
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post #15 of 37 Old 05-19-2017, 11:33 AM
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Typically though they should be place anywhere from 30° - 55° in front of you .
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post #16 of 37 Old 05-21-2017, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Antolovic View Post
Room is plenty big enough.. if it was any bigger you might have to upgrade the speakers lol!



For ceiling speakers, mine were a little different. Mine had to measure the height of the floor to the ceiling and and then the speakers would then be placed that measure distance away from my seating area.

My atmos speakers are the Definitive Technology UIW RCS II.



Are yours direct firing?


When you say direct firing do you mean straight down? I Rembrandt the sales person saying I could also get ones that swivelled.

Would it make sense to shoot the sound in front of me then?


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post #17 of 37 Old 05-21-2017, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncabw View Post
When you say direct firing do you mean straight down? I Rembrandt the sales person saying I could also get ones that swivelled.

Would it make sense to shoot the sound in front of me then?


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post #18 of 37 Old 05-22-2017, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Had time today to lay down most of the subfloor. Ran out of material and with it being a holiday I will have to wait a couple more days to finish now.

I'm pretty set on getting the 150" 2.35 screen. The up charge on switching wasn't that much. The sale guy did say in passing that it's now not a stock item and they have to make it. Has me thinking should I go bigger????? I read in someone's thread that just leaving 4" per side from the wall is a good idea. Might have to look into that.






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post #19 of 37 Old 05-27-2017, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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UGH

So confused right now on speaker placement. I have already pre wired the speakers at the locations i was told to by the person i bought all the equipment from. Now reading a bunch of websites and that Dolby atmos page I think everything is wrong.

I want to get everything as close to optimal as possible(I do have a air return that's in the way that i can't move). I don't mind cutting and patching the drywall if I need to. Everything is DD+GG so my patches would have to match. I don't think this would be a problem.

Is there a software program where i could just show my room size and it can spit out all the info??

my speakers I've bought are

main listing position is 14"
3 front (center and then LR that are wired 3'6" away from center speaker)
4 wall (2 at 14' and 2 at 18'(rear speakers on side wall) height will be roughly 42" off ground)
4 ceiling( 2 at 14' and 2 at 18' and they are also 3'6" off center listening position)
1 sub

I think it wouldn't be 2 hard to move the speakers at 18' back if need be

is this considered a 7.1.4 setup?




For screen size it looks like i will go with a 160-170" 2:35. The cost to upgrade is minor at this point.

Re reading my post I need to get home and layout some markings. I'm so confused.Sorry about the rambling post
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post #20 of 37 Old 06-22-2018, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't posted in a while but have made some good progress. I will take some pics tonight and upload the pics. I'm up and running with still some little things that need to be finished.

Some things of note since last post.
-installed the 180" screen
-installed left over carpet tiles from a work project.
-had my projector calibrated(Not sure if right because of next item)
-I bought a oppo 203 the night before they came to calibrate. I'm real newbie to all this but they seemed to calibrate just the projector and didn't do anything with the oppo 203. From my limited knowledge this machine has a bunch of settings that help make the picture better. So maybe I'm not using this to my full potential. The pic i get now I'm real happy with so I basically stopped reading the oppo forums because it was driving me crazy that i might of done something wrong. If there is a major difference that I'm missing out on i would love for someone to come and set this up for me(I'm in Toronto).
-I ran Audyssey and noticed a big difference in sound. Again for my standards it sounds good but I think there is lots of room for improvements as i have not done any wall acoustics(i think i will make my own). I just don't know how to read the graphs and started reading about this last night. I do see some things i did wrong on the initial running of the program(sub being way 2 loud).

My next post to keep some things separate I will post the pics of the Audyssey graphs.
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post #21 of 37 Old 06-22-2018, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I will try and rerun Audyssey tonight with the Sub set up like i saw on the setup guide last night. I know it want done right I had my Sub way to loud.

As for the other speakers I'm not sure if everything was set at that 80 hz setting i also read about last night

To me it all sounds good lol
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post #22 of 37 Old 06-22-2018, 12:17 PM
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This response may be too late but I just saw your thread. Surprised nobody else gave this info or a point to the dolby website...

If you're installing atmos with 4 ceiling speakers then one pair is top-front and one pair is top-rear.

All 4 should be set at the same width as your left front and right front speakers - along the parallel dotted lines in the diagram below:





The top-fronts are in front of the main listening position and the top-rears are behind. The spec is a range of acceptable angles from the listener's ear.



The top-fronts are *2 in the diagram below and the top-rears are *4, as viewed from the side of the room.






See also - https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html
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post #23 of 37 Old 06-22-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncabw View Post
I haven't posted in a while but have made some good progress. I will take some pics tonight and upload the pics. I'm up and running with still some little things that need to be finished.

Some things of note since last post.
-installed the 180" screen
-installed left over carpet tiles from a work project.
-had my projector calibrated(Not sure if right because of next item)
-I bought a oppo 203 the night before they came to calibrate. I'm real newbie to all this but they seemed to calibrate just the projector and didn't do anything with the oppo 203. From my limited knowledge this machine has a bunch of settings that help make the picture better. So maybe I'm not using this to my full potential. The pic i get now I'm real happy with so I basically stopped reading the oppo forums because it was driving me crazy that i might of done something wrong. If there is a major difference that I'm missing out on i would love for someone to come and set this up for me(I'm in Toronto).
-I ran Audyssey and noticed a big difference in sound. Again for my standards it sounds good but I think there is lots of room for improvements as i have not done any wall acoustics(i think i will make my own). I just don't know how to read the graphs and started reading about this last night. I do see some things i did wrong on the initial running of the program(sub being way 2 loud).

My next post to keep some things separate I will post the pics of the Audyssey graphs.
For your Oppo you want to ensure you have it setup for 4K/HDR and that your projector is displaying 4K/HDR with a Blu-Ray source. You can always play around with settings and see what you like best over time as you investigate your options.

Did you talk to the calibrator about your Oppo and which settings you should be using? I would give that person a call and ask for advice, assuming they are reputable.

In terms of Audyssy, read the FAQ at AVSForum, there are lots of good tips right on the first page. Typically, your AVR may set speakers to large vs small after calibraion and I usually change my crossover for my speakers to 80-100hz depending on the speakers and their capabilities. I would read the FAQ and make sure everything is set properly. I would also experiment with Dynamic EQ and turn off Dynamic Volume if that is enabled.
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post #24 of 37 Old 06-22-2018, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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For your Oppo you want to ensure you have it setup for 4K/HDR and that your projector is displaying 4K/HDR with a Blu-Ray source. You can always play around with settings and see what you like best over time as you investigate your options.



Did you talk to the calibrator about your Oppo and which settings you should be using? I would give that person a call and ask for advice, assuming they are reputable.



In terms of Audyssy, read the FAQ at AVSForum, there are lots of good tips right on the first page. Typically, your AVR may set speakers to large vs small after calibraion and I usually change my crossover for my speakers to 80-100hz depending on the speakers and their capabilities. I would read the FAQ and make sure everything is set properly. I would also experiment with Dynamic EQ and turn off Dynamic Volume if that is enabled.


I’m pretty sure the oppo is setup with the 4k/HDR is set up correctly. It shows the feed going into my projector as 4k

My concerns are more with changing SDR to HDR. This could be wrong terminology as I haven’t looked into last couple months. I remember that and NIT settings and I think something about 2020 settings. I will jump back into the thread when I have more time to read up on it. I’m guessing this makes Blue rays look more like 4k somehow????

I did call the guy and basically he said as long as it showed 4k it was good. He didn’t know anything else about the other things I mentioned.

I just reran Audyssey and I set my subwoofer better. I have it running at 75Db. It was over 100 before. I will post the updated sub graph next post.




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post #25 of 37 Old 06-22-2018, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the graph after rerunning Audyssey with the correct subwoofer Db. It’s now running at 75 before it was over 100

Old sub graph



New sub graph



Here is a zoomed up pic of both old first





Also I don’t think these settings are right. How do I change them. Marantz 6011 receiver.



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post #26 of 37 Old 06-22-2018, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Some pics of how the room looks now.



I just painted all my speaker grills



Also here is a pic of a home made acoustical panel. I doubled up on the insulation but I want to make the rest only 1 later. So 2.5” instead of 5”
Also need to find some kind of cover for them.



Still need
-add baseboard
-switch plugs to black gray
-patch some holes from moving speaker locations.
-might add another Door. I have one solid core Door with gasket and Door drop to help seal in sound




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post #27 of 37 Old 06-23-2018, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James92TSi View Post
This response may be too late but I just saw your thread. Surprised nobody else gave this info or a point to the dolby website...

If you're installing atmos with 4 ceiling speakers then one pair is top-front and one pair is top-rear.

All 4 should be set at the same width as your left front and right front speakers - along the parallel dotted lines in the diagram below:





The top-fronts are in front of the main listening position and the top-rears are behind. The spec is a range of acceptable angles from the listener's ear.



The top-fronts are *2 in the diagram below and the top-rears are *4, as viewed from the side of the room.






See also - https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html


For be 4 Atmos speakers. The front 2 are about 2’ in front of me and the tear ones are about 4’. I do recall swing these graphs. I have a duct run and Plm going through where the front 2 speakers main location was suppose to be. The rear ones should be in the correct ranges.

I will double check them. I did draw something up on AutoCAD to get my speaker locations. I will check that 2.


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post #28 of 37 Old 06-23-2018, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Some things I want to look for.

-the sub shakes my whole house. Wife keeps wanting me to turn it down. I’ve read that I can buy some rubber feet for the sub and it will help. Does it really make a big difference?? Right now it’s sitting in floor. So goes
Carpet
2”subfloor with some foam on bottom
Then concrete

- I think my speakers can be swivelled to point where I’m sitting. I have them installed just out of the box facing straight out. I think it’s a must to point them towards my sitting area?

-I’m going to make some Acoustical panels within next month or so.

-need to get that rew program up and running. Can I run it off any old laptop?




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post #29 of 37 Old 06-23-2018, 09:31 AM
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The atmos tweeters should be aimed toward the MLP, yes.

Did you build a floating floor or is it mechanically coupled to the concrete?

My build is not soundproofed at all in this regard but I see a lot of builds use horse stall mats under the subfloor to decouple it, making a floating floor. Short-short version - lay the rubber layer down, then 2 layers of flooring with staggered seams and glued+screwed together. Use screws only long enough to fasten the two floor layers together, no fasteners should penetrate to the rubber or the substrate below (concrete or existing subfloor), and your floating floor should not contact the walls either. Fill the 1/4-1/2" gap between floating floor and walls with acoustical caulk.

Not sure about rubber feet for the sub. Mine are on spikes and that is what I would use on a carpet floor to provide some mechanical isolation and keep them from walking. I have a feeling rubber feet wouldn't work so well on a low pile carpet tile like you have.

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post #30 of 37 Old 06-23-2018, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James92TSi View Post
The atmos tweeters should be aimed toward the MLP, yes.

Did you build a floating floor or is it mechanically coupled to the concrete?

My build is not soundproofed at all in this regard but I see a lot of builds use horse stall mats under the subfloor to decouple it, making a floating floor. Short-short version - lay the rubber layer down, then 2 layers of flooring with staggered seams and glued+screwed together. Use screws only long enough to fasten the two floor layers together, no fasteners should penetrate to the rubber or the substrate below (concrete or existing subfloor), and your floating floor should not contact the walls either. Fill the 1/4-1/2" gap between floating floor and walls with acoustical caulk.

Not sure about rubber feet for the sub. Mine are on spikes and that is what I would use on a carpet floor to provide some mechanical isolation and keep them from walking. I have a feeling rubber feet wouldn't work so well on a low pile carpet tile like you have.


Yes it’s a floating floor and I did use acoustical caulking around all the sides.

I sound proofed as best as I could. It doesn’t really sound to loud on the main floor above. Just the house vibrates. And that rattled some of the stuff on the main floor. It’s a 3 story house and wife sleeps on the third floor. It doesn’t seem to bother her when she’s all the way up there. So just need to see if I can make it better for the main floor.


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