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post #241 of 422 Old 04-12-2018, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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If your walls are drywall I don’t thing you can go wrong with either approach.

I took the same approach of painting trim before installing. Don’t want to stray you from your course but if I did it again I wouldn’t bother. Any sheen less than eggshell is going to chalk when touched. I went with a very expensive, enamel latex in a matte finish and although better, still noticeable. The handling, cutting, dry fitting, fine adjustments then finally hanging will bang up and mark the paint. Then, if you see in my pictures, you have the filling of the holes. Don’t use caulking for this. Use DryDex or Ready Patch or something along those lines - caulking will shrink and you’ll notice. With the right product sanding will be needed. I took it one step further and primed the filler after sanding. The result, I might as well have painted everything post install.
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post #242 of 422 Old 04-12-2018, 02:32 PM
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I took it one step further and primed the filler after sanding. The result, I might as well have painted everything post install.
This is why the *only* thing I do before installing the molding is sand the factory-applied primer coat smooth. I only have to go back and smooth the filled holes at that point and then paint one or two coats.

Separately, I thought it was a bold move to install fabric before you finished painting. Why not cover with some plastic that has the self-adhesive paper tape already attached just to give yourself some peace of mind. Certainly a roll of the plastic is cheaper than replacing the fabric for even just one panel.
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post #243 of 422 Old 04-12-2018, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouie View Post
If your walls are drywall I don’t thing you can go wrong with either approach.

I took the same approach of painting trim before installing. Don’t want to stray you from your course but if I did it again I wouldn’t bother. Any sheen less than eggshell is going to chalk when touched. I went with a very expensive, enamel latex in a matte finish and although better, still noticeable. The handling, cutting, dry fitting, fine adjustments then finally hanging will bang up and mark the paint. Then, if you see in my pictures, you have the filling of the holes. Don’t use caulking for this. Use DryDex or Ready Patch or something along those lines - caulking will shrink and you’ll notice. With the right product sanding will be needed. I took it one step further and primed the filler after sanding. The result, I might as well have painted everything post install.
I paint 2 coats before, install, patch, fill holes, quick 5 second sand, then go back over the piece with a light coat of color. Looks 100% new.

That last final coloring is super quick and not heavy. As long as you have a quick steady hand..

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post #244 of 422 Old 04-13-2018, 04:30 AM
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My strong recommendation is to paint first!.

I could not agree more. I pretty much cut, trimmed and assembled all my trim, columns and such in place first. When I was happy with it, I took it all down, painted and reinstalled. As Tim mention previously with the crown, just tack it up. I used 18g brad nails, just enough to hold things in place but easy to pull off the wall with little damages to all surfaces.
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post #245 of 422 Old 04-13-2018, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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This is why the *only* thing I do before installing the molding is sand the factory-applied primer coat smooth. I only have to go back and smooth the filled holes at that point and then paint one or two coats.

Separately, I thought it was a bold move to install fabric before you finished painting. Why not cover with some plastic that has the self-adhesive paper tape already attached just to give yourself some peace of mind. Certainly a roll of the plastic is cheaper than replacing the fabric for even just one panel.


Unfortunately my design required I install the fabric before the columns and trim. Yup, if I did t over again I’d figure out a way of installing fabric panels vs permanently mountain to the frames.

No question panting wig exposed fabric was very stressful. I’ve since masked the heck out of the room.
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post #246 of 422 Old 04-13-2018, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I could not agree more. I pretty much cut, trimmed and assembled all my trim, columns and such in place first. When I was happy with it, I took it all down, painted and reinstalled. As Tim mention previously with the crown, just tack it up. I used 18g brad nails, just enough to hold things in place but easy to pull off the wall with little damages to all surfaces.


Now that’s going above and beyond! I’ve put a lot of work into the finer details of this build but have to admit; it’s getting harder and harder to keep the discipline level up as I near the finish line.
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post #247 of 422 Old 04-13-2018, 09:09 AM
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Now that’s going above and beyond! I’ve put a lot of work into the finer details of this build but have to admit; it’s getting harder and harder to keep the discipline level up as I near the finish line.
Don't buy any gear!!
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post #248 of 422 Old 04-15-2018, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't buy any gear!!


I hear ya for a couple of reasons, unfortunately ..... I’ve pretty much bought all my gear with the exception of a 4/5 channel amp for Atmos (any recommendations?). I’ve been very good at not firing any of it up yet so it hasn’t been a distraction. Unfortunately the pre/pro is now a year old!

Need some help if you folks don’t mind. I need to drill the holes for my screen wash lights and am stuck. There are two possible configurations. 1) left and right lights are in slightly from the screen edge then the space between the two Center lights are evenly space or 2) space between all lights are evenly spaced. Here are a couple of rough drafts to help visualize.

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post #249 of 422 Old 04-15-2018, 05:53 PM
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Is it possible to add a fifth light to the A version so the distances in the middle would shrink?

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post #250 of 422 Old 04-15-2018, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, that wouldn’t be a problem. Let me do the math and post another high quality CAD.
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post #251 of 422 Old 04-16-2018, 04:54 AM
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There are two possible configurations. 1) left and right lights are in slightly from the screen edge then the space between the two Center lights are evenly space or 2) space between all lights are evenly spaced. Here are a couple of rough drafts to help visualize.

The bottom pattern is normally how it's done with four lights. The top pattern is normally used with 5 lights. Given the size (width) of your screen, I would recommend 4 lights in the bottom pattern above unless you really want/need the 5th light.
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post #252 of 422 Old 04-16-2018, 05:05 AM
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I hear ya for a couple of reasons, unfortunately ..... I’ve pretty much bought all my gear with the exception of a 4/5 channel amp for Atmos (any recommendations?).
I'm using a Marantz MM7055 It's not a monoblock or as high speed as some of the power solutions on this forum, but it gets the job done for me. As always, the guys here at AVS took care of me.
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post #253 of 422 Old 04-16-2018, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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The bottom pattern is normally how it's done with four lights. The top pattern is normally used with 5 lights. Given the size (width) of your screen, I would recommend 4 lights in the bottom pattern above unless you really want/need the 5th light.

I could move to 5 lights but that does seem like overkill across a 12ft span. Consider it locked in - 4 lights in the bottom configuration. Not sure I’ll get much done his week prepping for a trip next week. The new target has been to have things completed by the time the snow melts. Forecast is calling for 5-10 cm today - guess I just given more time.
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post #254 of 422 Old 04-16-2018, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm using a Marantz MM7055 It's not a monoblock or as high speed as some of the power solutions on this forum, but it gets the job done for me. As always, the guys here at AVS took care of me.


Thanks Doug, I’ll check it out. Not sure there’s any advantage having amp and processor from the same manufacturer but it would make for a neater rack.
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post #255 of 422 Old 04-16-2018, 06:12 AM
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I could move to 5 lights but that does seem like overkill across a 12ft span. Consider it locked in - 4 lights in the bottom configuration. Not sure I’ll get much done his week prepping for a trip next week. The new target has been to have things completed by the time the snow melts. Forecast is calling for 5-10 cm today - guess I just given more time.
Yes and no. In my room I'm planning on using five lights around the same span distance because my fixtures are small 3" lights with a narrow 30 degree beam dispersion. The more technical answer to your question involves knowing your intended fixture size *AND* the beam dispersion of the bulb and/or trim kit you use for the fixture to get the look you are going for. That's really the key technical details in this conversation which are missing if you really wanted to engineer the design. But generically, using 4 standard 4"-6" fixtures in the bottom configuration will serve you well without over-lighting the screen surface, even with dimmers.

The screen material is the most reflective surface in your room so the 'less is more' principle applies.
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post #256 of 422 Old 04-16-2018, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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This is a bit of the challenge that I have. I included lighting in my modelling but the fixtures are from Costco and they don’t provide the information I need to plan for the throw. I’m also concerned about the distance of the fixture from the screen. I’m afraid it’s further out than I should have made it and the result will likely be the top of the light casting too low on the screen.

I’ll do some further digging on specs and worst case if I don’t find any, I’ll use the result of the fixtures that are already installed to guesstimate.
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post #257 of 422 Old 04-16-2018, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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post #258 of 422 Old 04-17-2018, 02:07 AM
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Lol :d

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post #259 of 422 Old 04-17-2018, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I was able to get paint onto the lower half of the wall and the trim on the columns. I now have a new problem; the door was fit so closely that adding two coats of paint has it closing very tight on the hinge side. It closes by there’s a lot of pressure. I may have to sand and remove the bead of caulking between the jam and stop to get it to close nicely again.

I also starting playing with the underside of the soffit. The plan is to run a 1” wide by 5/8” piece of MDF on the outer edge to mount the fabric to using the crown to hide any staples. On the inside edge I’ll have to pre-mount the fabric to the MDF strip before installing to hide the staples, similar to the approach in the corner of the walls. The difficult part will be the corners. At this point I’m thinking two strips left and right of the 90 degree running from the outer to inner corner, with the fabric mounted to the strips before installing. In theory it should work just hoping I can get it right enough.







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post #260 of 422 Old 04-17-2018, 06:05 AM
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I love the progress and really like the design that is coming together. Keep up the good work!!!

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post #261 of 422 Old 04-22-2018, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I love the progress and really like the design that is coming together. Keep up the good work!!!


Thanks!

Question for the electrical gurus out there. I’m not thrilled with the air dampening into and out of the room. I’ve used the dead vent approach to cycle air from the adjoining room and it’s working very well to keep the air fresh and temperature moderated however; I’m disappointed that you can hear the air movement - slight but you can hear it. I won’t go into the detail of the HVAC build (fully documented through the thread if interested) but will say the dead vent is huge, borderline overkill, the muffler in the soffit is solid and the transitions from 6” to 8” flexible duct are plentiful each ending in 48” exhaust boxes. There’s probably more I could have done but yikes.

All I can think to do at this point is control the air flow when full cycle isn’t required. I have both fans feeding off of independent switches then running to analog pot dimmers. There’s no way to remotely control the current dimmers so I thought about replacing the switches with Insteon dimmers. Question is should this work or will the combination of Insteon dimming and pot switches cause me issues? I can always pull out the pot switches and use the Insteon alone if that would work too. Appreciate the input as always.
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post #262 of 422 Old 04-22-2018, 09:53 AM
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I absolutely detest dead vents. They are always a needlessly added engineering nightmare with limited efficacy vs. genuine HVAC supply and return brought into the room in a soundproof way.

What is it that you are hearing? The fans themselves? Air turbulence? Did you stuff that box with the fans with pink fluffy insulation before closing it up? If you have two ducts in a hard shell drywall box, that's 90% of your problem right there. If you ducting is still positioned as you last pictured it, you are running the fans MUCH harder than they need to be because of all the tight radii you have for those ducts. Every 90 is similar static pressure resistance to 30 FEET of duct. No offense, but the bends look to be a bit willy nilly and should be nice smooth bends back and forth no more than the width of the duct. Multiple 90-180 degree bends is no bueno.

In short, I'd look to reconfiguration of the ductwork to lower the static pressure to reduce the load on those two fans. I'd also take special care to pack out any remaining void fully with pink fluffy insulation. If I was to offer a third tip, rework the terminations with aluminum tape NOT duct tape. Duct tape dry rots and will eventually peel away. As your fellow Canadian Mike Holmes rightly says...duct tape is good for everything but ducts.

If you're looking to other switches, you're playing with fire when you hook a motor to a digital dimmer intended for lighting. I would consult with the manufacturer of that fan as a first step. There may be rheostats you can control via an app, but I haven't looked. I personally believe most of your problem will be solved by correcting the issues described above. And remember...you're in a room filled with 100% hard surfaces at this point. You can hear a fly farting. Once carpet, seating, acoustic treatments, etc. are in-place and you are stationed at your normal seating position, what you hear now should be nearly impossible to hear.
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post #263 of 422 Old 04-22-2018, 10:00 AM
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Edited, my advice may have been poor

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post #264 of 422 Old 04-22-2018, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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No offence taken! I would never claim to be an expert; everything about this build has been trial and error with the guidance from you great folks.

I agree with you. I wish I could have managed the HVAC with a dedicated solution but at the added cost of $10,000 I just couldn’t swing it. I did tie supply and return into the house HVAC but there is only a single zone for the entire house because of the in floor heating in the basement. Without the circulation of the fans I’m sure it would get quite stuffy- haven’t tried for long periods of time without them running mind you.

The only noise I’m hearing is turbulence. As far as what the bends look like behind the fully finished, DD&GG enclosure, pretty much the no-no that you describe. Fully, loosely stuffed with pink insulation but 20ft of duct work per fan of silly nilly loops. The positive is I haven’t taped and muddled yet so tear down is still possible and after hearing your diagnosis, very likely.

I appreciate the heads up on dimming motors, hadn’t even considered that. I do have them at full crank. When I dim them down with the pots there is a hum from the motors. Completely inaudible from within the room but noticeable outside the dead vent.
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post #265 of 422 Old 04-23-2018, 12:59 AM
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Dimm? Did you use a normal light dimmer? Then that is the problem.
You need a specialized motor control switch with like 4 steps on it to regulate the speed.
Then it will be dead silent, like mine is.
See my thread for details.

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post #266 of 422 Old 04-23-2018, 03:13 AM
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Thanks!
I’m not thrilled with the air dampening into and out of the room. I’m disappointed that you can hear the air movement - slight but you can hear it.
I remember you going to extraordinary lengths to eliminate sound from the HVAC. This result must be very discouraging. I flipped back to refresh my memory and can certainly see TMcG's point; that is one torturous path.
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post #267 of 422 Old 04-23-2018, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Dimm? Did you use a normal light dimmer? Then that is the problem.

You need a specialized motor control switch with like 4 steps on it to regulate the speed.

Then it will be dead silent, like mine is.

See my thread for details.


No, it’s a control switch like you describe, cane with the fans. Sounds like there are perhaps better dimmers out there - I’ll check your thread out, thanks.
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post #268 of 422 Old 04-23-2018, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I remember you going to extraordinary lengths to eliminate sound from the HVAC. This result must be very discouraging. I flipped back to refresh my memory and can certainly see TMcG's point; that is one torturous path.

Definitely a disappointment. I’m frustrated with myself for not considering the pressure that those bends would create. I’ve gone back through pictures and the duct in the soffit above the stage has similar bends. Fixing the dead vent will take work but nothing too dramatic. I can simply cut a section of the DD from the face and sort things out. Attaching the same removed section should be doable with a few 1/2 plywood lips around the inside perimeter of the hole. The soffit on the other hand, will be treacherous. The last thing I want to do is cut into that soffit. It can be done - half of it is behind the screen and covered with linacoustic but it would be painful to do, especially with all of the paint nearly complete. The dust created by that process would mean another coat at least. There is a small, 2’x2’ opening in the soffit to house the light generator for the star field. I could try to straighten things out via this opening. Won’t be easy but with a shot. .
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post #269 of 422 Old 04-23-2018, 05:56 PM
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I agree with you. I wish I could have managed the HVAC with a dedicated solution but at the added cost of $10,000 I just couldn’t swing it. I did tie supply and return into the house HVAC but there is only a single zone for the entire house because of the in floor heating in the basement. Without the circulation of the fans I’m sure it would get quite stuffy- haven’t tried for long periods of time without them running mind you.
Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on dead vents. With the radiant floor heating on a single zone, you are left with little option than to ventilate. I'm not sure who was quoting your dedicated HVAC solution, but a Mitsubishi ducted mini split system is about $2200 plus shipping. Ductwork is inexpensive but would take some effort if you installed yourself. I'd estimate $1000 for a pro to do the takeoffs for supply and return before everything transitioned into flex duct. Install of the system itself is very straightforward and doesn't involve brazing. All the refrigerant needed is loaded in the condenser and released once connections are made. Super quiet as well. I know it's too late in your case, but dedicated HVAC shouldn't be that expensive.

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The only noise I’m hearing is turbulence. As far as what the bends look like behind the fully finished, DD&GG enclosure, pretty much the no-no that you describe. Fully, loosely stuffed with pink insulation but 20ft of duct work per fan of silly nilly loops. The positive is I haven’t taped and muddled yet so tear down is still possible and after hearing your diagnosis, very likely.
One other thing I failed to mention is the last thing which plays into the air noise is the size of the diffusor at the end of each supply and the size of the return air vent. If they are just the 6" duct, that's probably part of your problem as well. For example, I am using 4"x24" bar diffusers for each supply and a single 14"x14" filter box for the 8" flex duct return. Enlarging the surface area for the air reduces the face pressure which, in-turn, reduces the air noise.

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Originally Posted by Gouie View Post
I appreciate the heads up on dimming motors, hadn’t even considered that. I do have them at full crank. When I dim them down with the pots there is a hum from the motors. Completely inaudible from within the room but noticeable outside the dead vent.
I'd honestly call the company. In your situation I GREATLY prefer thermostatically controlled fans so they automatically run only as hard as the need to run. You never have to touch them and they monitor real-time temperature in the room all the time. With your current set-up I can see a situation where your radiant heat may be on for days when the theater room is not in use, retaining all the heat in this highly insulated area because you're not in the room an manually turning on the switch to activate the ventilation system. Something to consider as you explore corrective action. It would be nice if the manufacturer had a variable speed controller for those fans which could be controlled by a remote temperature sensor.
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post #270 of 422 Old 04-24-2018, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Appreciate the input. I did explore the mini split but was told understand they have to be professionally installed. No word of a lie I was getting quotes of $4000-$5000 plus the unit and material. The ‘I am Canadian’ up charge is so frustrating. The other challenge is the weather. With temps dipping below zero for close to half the year the condenser would have to be installed inside the house. The few folks I got a quote from didn’t know for sure but suggested that would not pass code.

I went as large as I could with the diffusers, perhaps should have tried to go bigger; the supply is fed by a 6” duct transitioning to an 8” then connected to a 6” wide by 48” long box. I don’t have a grill on it yet. The return diffuser is 18” wide by 48” long and feeds two 4” ducts.

I like the idea of a switch that’s temperature controlled. I’ll certainly do a little digging as I try to figure out the best plan of attack.
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