Is your theater design ready for prime time? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 153 Old 02-04-2017, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Is your theater design ready for prime time?

Lately, I've been seeing major fundamental Acoustics mistakes in people's builds. So, in an effort to curb costly issues before they are made, post here your drawn room layouts to see if you are on the right or wrong track, and whether you should seek professional assistance...the good kind not the head kind.
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post #2 of 153 Old 02-04-2017, 09:57 AM
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Here is my latest.

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post #3 of 153 Old 02-04-2017, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TheGizzard View Post
Here is my latest.

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You need to place your speakers and screen first. This includes subs. Speaker and seating placement are interrelated. Without these elements placed, you won't know how your room is going to perform.

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post #4 of 153 Old 02-04-2017, 01:06 PM
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Looks like he does have the screen dimensions called out. I would take notice of the front row location. Very close to dead middle of the room length, which is certainly to be avoided. By moving both rows forward, you can move the first row out of the middle, and also get the back row further off the rear wall, which is another of the worst locations to be.
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post #5 of 153 Old 02-04-2017, 02:06 PM
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But the room is so small. If I do that I will need to shrink the screen no?

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post #6 of 153 Old 02-04-2017, 04:21 PM
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Shawn, Wow! just the thought of starting a thread like this by valued members is much appreciated. I have been slowly building my HT for over an year and certainly contemplated the use of professional services at several instances.
But truly, the joy of multi-disciplinary learning and experimenting steered me so far.

After the laborious sound proofing efforts, I have recently completed the stage build. Here is a tentative vision in mind, please provide your valuable feedback

I have procured some raw acoustic materials, OC703 2", sound blanket 1", fabric etc., and started conscious reading on acoustic topics.

Thanks in advance
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Fronts: RF-82 II
Center: RC-62II
Subs: 2 X R-112SW
Front Surrounds: 2 X RS-52II
Rear Surrounds: 2 X RB-61 II
ATMOS in ceiling: 4 X Klipsch CDT-5800-C II
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post #7 of 153 Old 02-04-2017, 05:14 PM
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Greatly appreciate your taking the time and effort to do this! This my most current plan. It is only in Excel (every time I use Google Sketch I end up with something quite bizarre!). The black squares are posts for a support beam. The dark blue are speaker locations. I have not added atmos ceiling locations as of yet and am still undecided on whether to put my left and right mains inside or outside the screen. Maybe you could shed some light on this?
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post #8 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nandkisham View Post
Shawn, Wow! just the thought of starting a thread like this by valued members is much appreciated. I have been slowly building my HT for over an year and certainly contemplated the use of professional services at several instances.
But truly, the joy of multi-disciplinary learning and experimenting steered me so far.

After the laborious sound proofing efforts, I have recently completed the stage build. Here is a tentative vision in mind, please provide your valuable feedback

I have procured some raw acoustic materials, OC703 2", sound blanket 1", fabric etc., and started conscious reading on acoustic topics.

Thanks in advance
Welcome! A few thoughts. I would consider using the same speaker for your left and right of possible. If you are using the Welti method of sub arrangements, they should be at the center of the side walls. They look close, but hard to tell. Also, check your angles fir your left and right speaker. They should be at least 45 degrees for the rear row. Are you using multiple side surrounds? Hard to say on Atmos placement without seating. Otherwise, looks good.

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Theater Design Information and Examples

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post #9 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Greatly appreciate your taking the time and effort to do this! This my most current plan. It is only in Excel (every time I use Google Sketch I end up with something quite bizarre!). The black squares are posts for a support beam. The dark blue are speaker locations. I have not added atmos ceiling locations as of yet and am still undecided on whether to put my left and right mains inside or outside the screen. Maybe you could shed some light on this?
Have you placed your subs yet? With your current configuration, you are looking to do multiple side surrounds. This will require some considederabke knowledge of actually incorporating it using a powerful and moderately priced DSP. What's the distance from screen to seating as well as angles to the screen from the seating and the speakers?

Shawn Byrne
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post #10 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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As an FYI in this thread, if I think your design is so far off base, I will mention YOU NEED TO HIRE A PRO.
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post #11 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
Have you placed your subs yet? With your current configuration, you are looking to do multiple side surrounds. This will require some considederabke knowledge of actually incorporating it using a powerful and moderately priced DSP. What's the distance from screen to seating as well as angles to the screen from the seating and the speakers?
The subs (15 inchers or maybe 18's) will be at the four corners and perhaps an additional one at screen center? You think one side surround would be sufficient? If yes then do you simply place it in between the rows or favor it towards the mlp? I added new surround location to cover both rows in yellow/gold. First row distance to screen is 11 feet. Viewing angle will be between 48* (120" screen) and 54* (136") I've noticed most forum members seem to be quite happy going a bit bigger vs staying with the 45* angle. If I place the left and right mains outside the screen the angle would be 60*.

Current AVR plans are for a Denon AVR-X7200WA or Yamaha RX-A3060. Thanks again!
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post #12 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
The subs (15 inchers or maybe 18's) will be at the four corners and perhaps an additional one at screen center? You think one side surround would be sufficient? If yes then do you simply place it in between the rows or favor it towards the mlp? I added new surround location to cover both rows in yellow/gold. First row distance to screen is 11 feet. Viewing angle will be between 48* (120" screen) and 54* (136") I've noticed most forum members seem to be quite happy going a bit bigger vs staying with the 45* angle. If I place the left and right mains outside the screen the angle would be 60*.

Current AVR plans are for a Denon AVR-X7200WA or Yamaha RX-A3060. Thanks again!
The Welti method uses two prime configurations; 4 corner placement subs, or 4 mid wall subs. The reason for that is you are trying to create virtual subs which would be located between the two subs. So, if you place four corner subs, the virtual sub placements would be at the mid wall. The virtual subs are always dead center between to physical sub placements. This is done in order to increase good modal response in the listening positions. I am not a particular fan of the corner sub placement, and would try to find a different solution if possible, but if that is all you can do, it is acceptable.

More can be read here. Please pay particular attention to the green, yellow and red zones.

https://homeacoustics.org/2016/08/hello-world/

Regarding your side surrounds, it is always best to use a pair of side surrounds per row if possible. This will help to ensure that all seats receive similar surround experiences. I do not prefer to use a single speaker to split between two rows. If I do this, I use only dipole, or in the case of atmos, bipole speakers. They at least often throw a wide angle encompassing most seats. Personally, I would never use a direct radiator for both rows. Only way that works well in my opinion is by elevating it very high to average the delta between seats and rows.

I'm not sure what you are referring to as far as the angles. Is this your viewing angles? The speakers should be a minimum angle of 45 for both rows. If you only make the angle 45 for the first row, then the second row suffers as a result. Why buy the chairs then? 60 degrees, while not ideal, is preferable to 45 for the front row. That way the second row still has enough separation for the LCR's.

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Theater Design Information and Examples

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post #13 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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But the room is so small. If I do that I will need to shrink the screen no?

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You don't have to shrink the screen. There are several issues I see. The proximity of the seats to the side and rear walls. Lots of boundary gain there which will be difficult to filter out without lots of treatment, and if done, will still not sound very good. The door is causing the lopsided aspect to the room. This can be alleviated a bit through increasing distance and SPL, but your bigger issue is the countertop/bar area. If only 42" in height, this won't be as bad, but if you intend to go floor to ceiling, it will cause issues not only in acoustics, but placement of surround speakers. As Adam mentioned, moving your seats out of the center of the room will move you out of the nulls. I would place your speakers and screen in the drawing, and see what that presents to you.

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post #14 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 05:02 PM
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great thread

is there a template you recommend for the room diagrams?

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post #15 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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great thread

is there a template you recommend for the room diagrams?
Hi Mark,

Thanks! The Dolby speaker and THX specifications (throw in SMPTE, ITU, etc.) are the two best "start here" templates. Although they have to be tailored to specifics frequently. Only under ideal conditions will they be adhered to fully. As has been mentioned over and over in the past, designing is part science and part art. The art part is understanding where you can compromise due to situations and where you can't. But pretty much every designer starts with the basic THX and Dolby specs and proceeds from there. When you run into a problem that deviates from those specifics, the compromise part takes over. I do recommend enthusiasts who want to design their own rooms take the Home Acoustics Alliance course...all five days. Understanding how things will sound once you manipulate things in a controlled and learned classroom is truly invaluable to apply to your own space.

As an after thought there is a link in my signature that takes you to a sample layout I've done labeled Quest Layout. You can use that to get an idea of angles and how the symmetry of how this all comes together. Might be a good template to use. I've put it up there for all to see.

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post #16 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 06:27 PM
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I've been struggling with room diagrams as well due to the angled corners I have. I'd like to ask a few questions. I added a diagram below showing the rough dimensions (They are all within a couple inches at worst). Back of the back row is 4' from the back wall, MLP from the front row is 10.5' from the screen. Room is 13'1" wide by 21' deep to the screen and 24' to the back wall. Chairs are going to be very close to the side wall. I know having seats right up close to the side wall may not be the best scenario, but we are really wanting the dual loveseat configuration in the front and back. Ceiling height was 100", but I did a 6" drop ceiling to house a 6X10 star ceiling. With the 12" riser, my rear row of seats is only 88" from the ceiling. Pictures below are current. I am wrapping up the ceiling sheetrock right now and about to start on walls. There are a couple lighting and blocking aspects that I need to deal with first, but the mud/tape/painter is scheduled to arrive on the 20th.

System is as follows:
Denon 6300 DVR
Klipsch 7.2.4
Fronts & Center: RP-280F
Subs: 2 X RP-115SW
Front Surrounds: 2 X RP-250S
Rear Surrounds: 2 X Klipsch R-5800W-II
ATMOS in ceiling: 4 X Klipsch CDT-5800-C II

I am already looking to change the subs. One of the RP115SW subs will be placed in the rear by the AV cabinet. One will go out of the theater into my living room. The front subs will be replaced with two Dayton UM18-22 subs in Mini-Marty boxes run by an Inuke 6000DSP.

1) Is having 45 degree angles instead of 90 degree angles problematic or beneficial? All of my "corners" have 45 degree angles. The back side has the door one one side and the AV cabinet on the other. The front of the theater is an ICF turret wall that will be used to recess the front speakers behind an AT screen. The screen will be between 32-36" in from the back wall. How much treatment should I place on the ICF wall behind the speakers? Are bass traps as effective in corners with 45 Degree angles compared to 90 Degree?

2) Regarding the side surrounds. I have two rows of seating, the rear being on a 12" riser. In general, where should the side surrounds be mounted between the seats, and what would the optimum height be? Right now I can foresee both rows being MLP, but I would probably lean towards the front row and being the main.

3) Regarding the rear speakers. I plan to elevate them fairly close to the ceiling and angle them down. Should my main focus be on having a clear line of view from the speakers to the front row listeners?

Thank you very much for the offer to provide your input.
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Jerry
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post #17 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arcticbowman View Post
I've been struggling with room diagrams as well due to the angled corners I have. I'd like to ask a few questions. I added a diagram below showing the rough dimensions (They are all within a couple inches at worst). Back of the back row is 4' from the back wall, MLP from the front row is 10.5' from the screen. Room is 13'1" wide by 21' deep to the screen and 24' to the back wall. Chairs are going to be very close to the side wall. I know having seats right up close to the side wall may not be the best scenario, but we are really wanting the dual loveseat configuration in the front and back. Ceiling height was 100", but I did a 6" drop ceiling to house a 6X10 star ceiling. With the 12" riser, my rear row of seats is only 88" from the ceiling. Pictures below are current. I am wrapping up the ceiling sheetrock right now and about to start on walls. There are a couple lighting and blocking aspects that I need to deal with first, but the mud/tape/painter is scheduled to arrive on the 20th.

System is as follows:
Denon 6300 DVR
Klipsch 7.2.4
Fronts & Center: RP-280F
Subs: 2 X RP-115SW
Front Surrounds: 2 X RP-250S
Rear Surrounds: 2 X Klipsch R-5800W-II
ATMOS in ceiling: 4 X Klipsch CDT-5800-C II

I am already looking to change the subs. One of the RP115SW subs will be placed in the rear by the AV cabinet. One will go out of the theater into my living room. The front subs will be replaced with two Dayton UM18-22 subs in Mini-Marty boxes run by an Inuke 6000DSP.

1) Is having 45 degree angles instead of 90 degree angles problematic or beneficial? All of my "corners" have 45 degree angles. The back side has the door one one side and the AV cabinet on the other. The front of the theater is an ICF turret wall that will be used to recess the front speakers behind an AT screen. The screen will be between 32-36" in from the back wall. How much treatment should I place on the ICF wall behind the speakers? Are bass traps as effective in corners with 45 Degree angles compared to 90 Degree?

2) Regarding the side surrounds. I have two rows of seating, the rear being on a 12" riser. In general, where should the side surrounds be mounted between the seats, and what would the optimum height be? Right now I can foresee both rows being MLP, but I would probably lean towards the front row and being the main.

3) Regarding the rear speakers. I plan to elevate them fairly close to the ceiling and angle them down. Should my main focus be on having a clear line of view from the speakers to the front row listeners?

Thank you very much for the offer to provide your input.
1) Is having 45 degree angles instead of 90 degree angles problematic or beneficial? All of my "corners" have 45 degree angles. The back side has the door one one side and the AV cabinet on the other. The front of the theater is an ICF turret wall that will be used to recess the front speakers behind an AT screen. The screen will be between 32-36" in from the back wall. How much treatment should I place on the ICF wall behind the speakers? Are bass traps as effective in corners with 45 Degree angles compared to 90 Degree?

Whew. Lots of questions. To be honest, you're on the threshold of HIRE A PRO! Since you are creating a false 45 degree angle in the rear, create this as a bass trap. I'll leave that to you to figure out, but generally, you only need one corner bass trap to be effective. You can have more, but if you treat one corner, it has significant effect. No, there is no advantage to having 45 degree angles. 90 degree is preferable primarily due to spacing considerations no from an acoustic point of view...though low frequency modeling assumes a rigid walled rectangular room. Predictability may become a bit of an issue of you tried to model it compared to real world readings.

2) Regarding the side surrounds. I have two rows of seating, the rear being on a 12" riser. In general, where should the side surrounds be mounted between the seats, and what would the optimum height be? Right now I can foresee both rows being MLP, but I would probably lean towards the front row and being the main.

It depends on the speaker types you are using. Bipole/dipole applications are generally mounted exactly between the two rows listeners ears. With your seats being as close to the boundary as you say they are, using direct radiators is not the best approach especially if you are using Atmos. Height of the speakers is variable. I initially start out around 2 feet above the second row ears, but then I take a look at the entire picture. Am I using Atmos? Do I have a clear line of sight for all the listeners to the side and rear surrounds? How close are my seats to the speakers? All of this is a balancing act. Primary above all is to have a clear line of sight to the speakers from all seats. From there, lower and adjust as necessary. I shoot for a slightly higher application if the seats are close to the walls. Always default to 7.1. If you Atmos works given conditions, then consider where to place the atmos speakers. If the surround speakers are too high to meet the primary objective, then consider losing atmos as it just may not work. You can still have a great theater experience using 7.1 only.

3) Regarding the rear speakers. I plan to elevate them fairly close to the ceiling and angle them down. Should my main focus be on having a clear line of view from the speakers to the front row listeners?

Answered above. Consider speakers that already have an angle built into them. Some manufacturers will provide a best angle for you so you can ask them. Procella and some JBL speakers already have an angle built into some of their speakers. Makes mounting easy. Be careful not to get too high as unwanted reflections off the soffit and or ceiling may have to be dealt with.

Shawn Byrne
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Theater Design Information and Examples

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post #18 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 07:28 PM
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Shawn,

Wow, thank you very much for your response. As you can see in the pictures, I'm fairly committed at this point, but the input you provide on the rears and side surrounds is very helpful. I will be building boxes for the rears that I can easily make changes to in the future if needed. The panels will be mounted at a slight angle. For the sides, that gives me a great starting point. I think I was on the right track there.

I will plan to install 1 bass trap per inside corner. on both the rear and front wall. We will be installing non-functional curtains on the screen wall to the side of the screen, so the bass traps can be hidden behind those.

Once I build the boxes for the Dayton's, I would like to have the room professionally tuned, so I'm hoping for some local availability for that service.

Again, thank you very much!

Jerry
Fairbanks, Alaska
DIY In Progress Home Theater Build: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...tic-build.html
Star Ceiling Build: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...am-boards.html
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post #19 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Shawn,

Wow, thank you very much for your response. As you can see in the pictures, I'm fairly committed at this point, but the input you provide on the rears and side surrounds is very helpful. I will be building boxes for the rears that I can easily make changes to in the future if needed. The panels will be mounted at a slight angle. For the sides, that gives me a great starting point. I think I was on the right track there.

I will plan to install 1 bass trap per inside corner. on both the rear and front wall. We will be installing non-functional curtains on the screen wall to the side of the screen, so the bass traps can be hidden behind those.

Once I build the boxes for the Dayton's, I would like to have the room professionally tuned, so I'm hoping for some local availability for that service.

Again, thank you very much!
There are currently no HAA certified calibrators listed in Alaska. However, since I lived there for a year, I think you should bring me up there.
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post #20 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
Welcome! A few thoughts. I would consider using the same speaker for your left and right of possible. If you are using the Welti method of sub arrangements, they should be at the center of the side walls. They look close, but hard to tell. Also, check your angles fir your left and right speaker. They should be at least 45 degrees for the rear row. Are you using multiple side surrounds? Hard to say on Atmos placement without seating. Otherwise, looks good.
Thank you Shawn.

I read the the sidewall subs have to be dead center, they are off the center by 19" toward the screen wall. In that case I am going to ditch the idea of placing the subs on sidewalls as I would have to block the step( and I didn't like them placing them visually anyways. Just that the research pointed me in that direction.
I want to have good bass, and willing to pursue other options ( behind screen and near field)
Can I just start with one sub behind the screen under the center channel and one directly opposite on the riser near the rear wall?

i am using bipole for side surrounds,

here is my Klipsch 7.2.4 system:

Onkyo NR838

Fronts: RF-82 II
Center: RC-62II
Subs: 2 X R-112SW
Front Surrounds: 2 X RS-52II
Rear Surrounds: 2 X RB-61 II 
ATMOS in ceiling: 4 X Klipsch CDT-5800-C II


I also attached a picture for Atmos angles and seating.
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Fronts: RF-82 II
Center: RC-62II
Subs: 2 X R-112SW
Front Surrounds: 2 X RS-52II
Rear Surrounds: 2 X RB-61 II
ATMOS in ceiling: 4 X Klipsch CDT-5800-C II
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post #21 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
There are currently no HAA certified calibrators listed in Alaska. However, since I lived there for a year, I think you should bring me up there.
Definitely something we can consider. There are a few folks currently building theaters up here now, so there may be a possibility to cost share some for your T&E if they are interested in your services. I'll be in touch when I'm closer to that timeframe.

Thanks again!
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post #22 of 153 Old 02-05-2017, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nandkisham View Post
Thank you Shawn.

I read the the sidewall subs have to be dead center, they are off the center by 19" toward the screen wall. In that case I am going to ditch the idea of placing the subs on sidewalls as I would have to block the step( and I didn't like them placing them visually anyways. Just that the research pointed me in that direction.
I want to have good bass, and willing to pursue other options ( behind screen and near field)
Can I just start with one sub behind the screen under the center channel and one directly opposite on the riser near the rear wall?

i am using bipole for side surrounds,

here is my Klipsch 7.2.4 system:

Onkyo NR838

Fronts: RF-82 II
Center: RC-62II
Subs: 2 X R-112SW
Front Surrounds: 2 X RS-52II
Rear Surrounds: 2 X RB-61 II 
ATMOS in ceiling: 4 X Klipsch CDT-5800-C II


I also attached a picture for Atmos angles and seating.
Yes, you can do arrange the subs as suggested. Many other ways though.

Shawn Byrne
CEDIA Certified Professional EST II - HAA, THX.
Theater Design Information and Examples

[email protected]
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post #23 of 153 Old 02-06-2017, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
Lately, I've been seeing major fundamental Acoustics mistakes in people's builds. So, in an effort to curb costly issues before they are made, post here your drawn room layouts to see if you are on the right or wrong track, and whether you should seek professional assistance...the good kind not the head kind.
Thanks for your post and offer to help the community Shawn, we all really appreciate your insight!

I humbly submit a design I've been working on that's been pretty fluid lately. It's an update to my existing FROG dedicated theater (finished room over garage). I'm not dead set on anything here and do realize there are some issues with the layout. The ceiling slope and room layout are forcing me to compromise on some things that I realize are not ideal, but regardless this is what I have so far.

General Points:
- 7.2 surround system design for now. May go with Atmos eventually but it's not in the plan for now due to budget reasons.
- Room is staying open to stairway with sealed door and acoustic treatments in stairwell. This initially caused confusion as to where the true length null of the room would be. Measurements with REW show the length mode null point is roughly between 1st and second rows (indicated by dashed datum line in drawing)
- (3) JBL 4722n on front stage
- (4) Volt 10lx coaxial speakers for side and rear surrounds
- (4) HST-18 subs close('ish) to front 1/4 points of room
- proper amps to run all above equipment
- 144" diagonal 2.35:1 screen. Targeting the same viewing angles that I have now, which I'm quite happy with
- Listening angle of LR speakers is not optimal atm, measuring at 42.5 degrees

Acoustic Treatments:
- dead front wall: 2" OC703 or Linacoustic with plastic barrier on front / side wall area and ceiling behind screen. Additionally will add 12"x12"x2" foam wedges in alternating pattern on top
- ceiling: 4" OC703 w/ 4" air gap at first reflection points for fr and rr rows
- side walls: 4" OC703 with air gap at first reflection points of LR speakers
- rear walls: 4" OC703 with diffusor plates
- corner bass traps behind screen tuned to focus on 125Hz and below
- corner bass traps in mid and rear room corners (<125Hz)
- diffusion panels in strategic areas and even in place of some absorption panels based on sound quality and measurements.... when I actually get that far

Known Issues:
1. Side surround speaker placement is poor for the rear row (Severely limited by sloped ceiling and existing closet)
2. Left most occupant in front row is too close to left wall and surround speaker (I'm mostly okay with this, the picky people don't have to sit there )
3. Rear row riser not high enough leaving a small portion at bottom of screen blocked. Thinking about going to 3 seats in second row and raising riser height by 7" to have a clear sight line (and not have the person in left most seat hit their head on ceiling)
4. Screen is too low (ceiling shape vs size compromise)
5. Sound / vibration isolation to rest of house is a problem. Not much I can do here unless deciding to gut the current room, which I have currently decided against.

I'd love to hear your feedback, if I'm way out in left field and clueless here please don't hesitate to say so!

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Humble Theater
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post #24 of 153 Old 02-06-2017, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonut View Post
Thanks for your post and offer to help the community Shawn, we all really appreciate your insight!

I humbly submit a design I've been working on that's been pretty fluid lately. It's an update to my existing FROG dedicated theater (finished room over garage). I'm not dead set on anything here and do realize there are some issues with the layout. The ceiling slope and room layout are forcing me to compromise on some things that I realize are not ideal, but regardless this is what I have so far.

General Points:
- 7.2 surround system design for now. May go with Atmos eventually but it's not in the plan for now due to budget reasons.
- Room is staying open to stairway with sealed door and acoustic treatments in stairwell. This initially caused confusion as to where the true length null of the room would be. Measurements with REW show the length mode null point is roughly between 1st and second rows (indicated by dashed datum line in drawing)
- (3) JBL 4722n on front stage
- (4) Volt 10lx coaxial speakers for side and rear surrounds
- (4) HST-18 subs close('ish) to front 1/4 points of room
- proper amps to run all above equipment
- 144" diagonal 2.35:1 screen. Targeting the same viewing angles that I have now, which I'm quite happy with
- Listening angle of LR speakers is not optimal atm, measuring at 42.5 degrees

Acoustic Treatments:
- dead front wall: 2" OC703 or Linacoustic with plastic barrier on front / side wall area and ceiling behind screen. Additionally will add 12"x12"x2" foam wedges in alternating pattern on top
- ceiling: 4" OC703 w/ 4" air gap at first reflection points for fr and rr rows
- side walls: 4" OC703 with air gap at first reflection points of LR speakers
- rear walls: 4" OC703 with diffusor plates
- corner bass traps behind screen tuned to focus on 125Hz and below
- corner bass traps in mid and rear room corners (<125Hz)
- diffusion panels in strategic areas and even in place of some absorption panels based on sound quality and measurements.... when I actually get that far

Known Issues:
1. Side surround speaker placement is poor for the rear row (Severely limited by sloped ceiling and existing closet)
2. Left most occupant in front row is too close to left wall and surround speaker (I'm mostly okay with this, the picky people don't have to sit there )
3. Rear row riser not high enough leaving a small portion at bottom of screen blocked. Thinking about going to 3 seats in second row and raising riser height by 7" to have a clear sight line (and not have the person in left most seat hit their head on ceiling)
4. Screen is too low (ceiling shape vs size compromise)
5. Sound / vibration isolation to rest of house is a problem. Not much I can do here unless deciding to gut the current room, which I have currently decided against.

I'd love to hear your feedback, if I'm way out in left field and clueless here please don't hesitate to say so!

Thanks for your post and offer to help the community Shawn, we all really appreciate your insight!

Welcome!

General Points:
- Room is staying open to stairway with sealed door and acoustic treatments in stairwell. This initially caused confusion as to where the true length null of the room would be. Measurements with REW show the length mode null point is roughly between 1st and second rows (indicated by dashed datum line in drawing)

If you can, you may want to reconsider walling off the stairwell and equipment room. Complicates low frequency prediction and the equipment adds unwanted noise and heat in an isolated room.

- Listening angle of LR speakers is not optimal atm, measuring at 42.5 degrees

From the front row? If so, you will want to reanalyze that, but with the size of those speakers, that becomes complicated. Rule of thumb, don't place 10 pounds into a 5 pound box. Only way it looks that you can fix it is to move the seats forward, but that presents other issues.

Acoustic Treatments:
- dead front wall: 2" OC703 or Linacoustic with plastic barrier on front / side wall area and ceiling behind screen.

Ok.

Additionally will add 12"x12"x2" foam wedges in alternating pattern on top

Where?

ceiling: 4" OC703 w/ 4" air gap at first reflection points for fr and rr rows

Ok, why? You aren't going to need it to be that thick at top. Save yourself some headroom and consider something with a bit less depth unless you planned it to aesthetic.

- side walls: 4" OC703 with air gap at first reflection points of LR speakers

Not the best idea. With treatments, you can diffuse, reflect or absorb or do all three at the same time. Consider using all three possibilities at the ipsilateral and contralateral points.

- rear walls: 4" OC703 with diffusor plates

Depending on where they are placed. Ok.

- corner bass traps behind screen tuned to focus on 125Hz and below

Ok

- corner bass traps in mid and rear room corners (<125Hz)

You probably won't need to do this if you already did it up front. Better yet, if you gives you extra space up front to widen your speakers, then consider doing this only in the back corners.

- diffusion panels in strategic areas and even in place of some absorption panels based on sound quality and measurements.... when I actually get that far.

Measuring for diffusion gets a bit tough. The best tool you have is your ears.

Known Issues:
1. Side surround speaker placement is poor for the rear row (Severely limited by sloped ceiling and existing closet)
2. Left most occupant in front row is too close to left wall and surround speaker (I'm mostly okay with this, the picky people don't have to sit there )
3. Rear row riser not high enough leaving a small portion at bottom of screen blocked. Thinking about going to 3 seats in second row and raising riser height by 7" to have a clear sight line (and not have the person in left most seat hit their head on ceiling)

Consider raising your screen if possible.

4. Screen is too low (ceiling shape vs size compromise)

May have to compromise on screen size to get it all to work. Just depends on how often you plan to use the rear seats. As a professional I wouldn't be able to get away with that and keep my job, but if you make the call it's up to you.

5. Sound / vibration isolation to rest of house is a problem. Not much I can do here unless deciding to gut the current room, which I have currently decided against.

Ok, that takes care of the isolation issue. I would still consider walling off the rear if possible. Some re-work is in order for the room, but you can get there. I do like the drawings! Sorry for the hard to read integrated responses.

Shawn Byrne
CEDIA Certified Professional EST II - HAA, THX.
Theater Design Information and Examples

[email protected]
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post #25 of 153 Old 02-07-2017, 12:37 AM
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27' x 14'6" x 9'. Thinking about doing a raised floor with rubber sheet on slab, then pressure treated 2x4s laying flat on rubber, then OSB or plywood sheets, bringing room height down to ~8'9".

11.2 setup. Two 18" freestanding subs at the front corners will act as one subwoofer, and then four 18" drivers using the rear closet as an enclosure will act as the second. Those drivers can span across horizontally or be stacked vertically - I am leaning vertical. Audyssey will try to make them all play nice.

Primary seat ~15'5" back from front wall.

Rear seats on 1' riser that can be stuffed and ported to act as bass trap.

Acoustically transparent screen to cover LCR and heights. Stretch velvet to cover the rest of the front false wall.

Corner bass traps, absorption panels on the side walls, front walls, and ceiling with alternating 4" thick 703 and 4" thick acoustic wedge foam, and absorption/diffusion panels on the back wall with 4" thick acoustic pyramid foam.



Am I overlooking something?
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post #26 of 153 Old 02-07-2017, 03:25 AM
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Here is my layout:



The two circles in the middle are the heads. Green is height speakers.

Room is 12x12x8.5'

Speakers are Monitor Audio GSLCR, GS20, GS10 and GSFX. Subwoofer is SVS PB13 Ultra.

The right/left/front soffit will be used as a massive bass trap 12"x24".

Tower Cinema - 9.1.6 in a 12'x12' room
Input : Nvidia Shield TV, Panasonic DMP-UB400
Magic : Marantz SR7010, Marantz SR6010, 2x NAD T743
Output : Panasonic TX65EZ952B, SVS PB13 Ultra, Monitor Audio GSLCR 2xGS20 2xGS10 4xGSFX 6xBX1
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post #27 of 153 Old 02-07-2017, 03:09 PM
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Hello,

since my room is very oddly shaped, i happy about every bit of advice that i'm getting. I'm planning to use a 7.1.2 System. Frontspeakers and Subwoofer are behind the AT Screen.

Thank you in advance
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post #28 of 153 Old 02-07-2017, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
27' x 14'6" x 9'. Thinking about doing a raised floor with rubber sheet on slab, then pressure treated 2x4s laying flat on rubber, then OSB or plywood sheets, bringing room height down to ~8'9".

11.2 setup. Two 18" freestanding subs at the front corners will act as one subwoofer, and then four 18" drivers using the rear closet as an enclosure will act as the second. Those drivers can span across horizontally or be stacked vertically - I am leaning vertical. Audyssey will try to make them all play nice.

Primary seat ~15'5" back from front wall.

Rear seats on 1' riser that can be stuffed and ported to act as bass trap.

Acoustically transparent screen to cover LCR and heights. Stretch velvet to cover the rest of the front false wall.

Corner bass traps, absorption panels on the side walls, front walls, and ceiling with alternating 4" thick 703 and 4" thick acoustic wedge foam, and absorption/diffusion panels on the back wall with 4" thick acoustic pyramid foam.



Am I overlooking something?
Ok, lot's of issues I see here. Subs chosen are too large for the room, seats in poor placement, LCR speakers not separated enough. Velvet will not likely be a good choice for fabric. Are those height speakers depicted in the corner? If so, no need for them. Your planned isolation is eating a lot of room as well. I hate to be a party pooper, but just from what you have shown me here, the room will struggle acoustically. Further, your room does not appear to be able to accommodate 4" panels. I would recommend considering to either get acoustical consulting or possibly a design to use your space a bit more to your advantage.

Shawn Byrne
CEDIA Certified Professional EST II - HAA, THX.
Theater Design Information and Examples

[email protected]
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post #29 of 153 Old 02-07-2017, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
Here is my layout:



The two circles in the middle are the heads. Green is height speakers.

Room is 12x12x8.5'

Speakers are Monitor Audio GSLCR, GS20, GS10 and GSFX. Subwoofer is SVS PB13 Ultra.

The right/left/front soffit will be used as a massive bass trap 12"x24".

I like that you put your angle lines! Are you able to place the actual values in as well? This is my opinion, but you may wish to consider condensing the speakers down a bit. The GSFX speakers are either monopole or dipole mode. You will want to use them in monopole configuration. I would consider arranging the rear surrounds a bit different. They don't need to be angled toward you unless the tweeter dispersion of off axis response are very poor. This is also my opinion, but at this time, I do not see the need for height and wide speakers. It opens a whole can of worms with especially the wides that are unnecessary. You can achieve virtually the same thing using only proper treatment in those locations. You're on the right track though! Just tweak a few things, consider rearranging your atmos speakers (4 is plenty for this room actually for only two people and room dimensions) , and keep going!

Shawn Byrne
CEDIA Certified Professional EST II - HAA, THX.
Theater Design Information and Examples

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post #30 of 153 Old 02-07-2017, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malicedr View Post
Hello,

since my room is very oddly shaped, i happy about every bit of advice that i'm getting. I'm planning to use a 7.1.2 System. Frontspeakers and Subwoofer are behind the AT Screen.

Thank you in advance
That room does present some issues. How many people do you intend to put inside the room?

Shawn Byrne
CEDIA Certified Professional EST II - HAA, THX.
Theater Design Information and Examples

[email protected]
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